In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

[Malkosha]

I agree with the OP. The game does start at level 1.

 

As time goes on, more and more content will pumped in, and you will be able to say it starts at level 1 and never ends.

[Kalfear]

Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

.

 

LOL, well I dont disagree that TOR does finally make leveling matter

 

I just cant help laughing at the new MMO players that try to proclaim WOW, the game that introduced pandering to the mememememe demographic and made leveling from 1 to max so mind numbingly easy and fast, is now being discribed as EXCRUCIATING and grind.

 

News flash, NO ONE with any pratical knowledge of MMORPGs uses the word grind and WOW togather.

 

WOW had no grind

RIFT had no grind

TOR has no grind

 

I really lose all hope for this genre going forth when I read stuff like this.

 

MMORPGs are NOT FPS where you log in at max level. They are suppose to have detailed and lenghty leveling curves and btw

 

Having played with many self proclaimed top guild, top raiders, top pvpers from WOW in Rift and TOR I can say with out any doubt that WOWs leveling curve should have been much longer so maybe you all had a clue about how to play your characters and what your different character skill sets do.

 

One of the main reasons pre WOW MMORPG titles had detailed leveling curves and NO RESPECs was so players actually mastered their classes.

 

I havent seen a player in TOR or RIFT that entered this genre in WOW or after that I call a masterful player. Not a single one. Oh Ive met many that call themselves masters and blah blah blah. But no one else does.

 

So yes, TOR story does make leveling matter more in that regard. Its pretty appearent that you missed the reason for leveling in other games and clearly do not understand the definition of GRIND.

 

Before you speak for all MMORPGs, perhaps you should, I dont know, learn about the genre maybe? Learn to use the definitions in their proper format and meaning and description?

 

Just a suggestion.

[amantheil]

LOL, well I dont disagree that TOR does finally make leveling matter

 

I just cant help laughing at the new MMO players that try to proclaim WOW, the game that introduced pandering to the mememememe demographic and made leveling from 1 to max so mind numbingly easy and fast, is now being discribed as EXCRUCIATING and grind.

 

News flash, NO ONE with any pratical knowledge of MMORPGs uses the word grind and WOW togather.

 

WOW had no grind

RIFT had no grind

TOR has no grind

 

I really lose all hope for this genre going forth when I read stuff like this.

 

MMORPGs are NOT FPS where you log in at max level. They are suppose to have detailed and lenghty leveling curves and btw

 

Having played with many self proclaimed top guild, top raiders, top pvpers from WOW in Rift and TOR I can say with out any doubt that WOWs leveling curve should have been much longer so maybe you all had a clue about how to play your characters and what your different character skill sets do.

 

One of the main reasons pre WOW MMORPG titles had detailed leveling curves and NO RESPECs was so players actually mastered their classes.

 

I havent seen a player in TOR or RIFT that entered this genre in WOW or after that I call a masterful player. Not a single one. Oh Ive met many that call themselves masters and blah blah blah. But no one else does.

 

So yes, TOR story does make leveling matter more in that regard. Its pretty appearent that you missed the reason for leveling in other games and clearly do not understand the definition of GRIND.

 

Before you speak for all MMORPGs, perhaps you should, I dont know, learn about the genre maybe? Learn to use the definitions in their proper format and meaning and description?

 

Just a suggestion.

 

The ego and epeen are strong with this one.

 

Please, tell us more about how back in the old days you had to level characters uphill in the snow with no shoes on.

Edited April 3, 2012 by amantheil

[Dekkau]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

But it doesn't.. I have started 4 and played 4 and the results appear just the same. It really is only nominal changes. My Jedi Knight Dark played exactly the same quests as my Jedi Knight Light and I tried and tried to answer the complete opposite. OK I killed the robot instead of salvaging its memory core and I killed the bad guy instead of letting him go. But other than a dark requirement for the light saber [odd that] I stand at the exact same place as my light and my Jedi Sage and my Smuggler... all stacked at the exact same quest spot. I've seen these cinematics like four times now and I could quote them all... well not... I just go blah blah space bar.

 

And yet I have 12 at cap in WoW and guess what... the path may get a bit samey after say Tanaris but I can start in Dun Morogh or Teldrassil or Northshire and have a capital in... wait for it.. Ironforge, Stormwind, Darnassus, Shattrath, Dalaran and thats just Alliance for the first three [ not counting snotty nose central]. I can play quite distinct races and classes that are not all humanoid and I can have differing skills and crafts that make subtle but distinct differences to the journey through the game. Add to that the side quests for fishing, cooking and specific class quests and you can have a blast 1 to 85 irrespective of the post 85 content.

 

I would be very careful about generalising about the true king of MMOs comparing a very light weight game like SWToR. This game follows the exact same theme formula from step one which is choreographed through a very linear plot line. There is no freedom to adventure, explore and do your own thing. Trust me I tried. You have to play the game as it was story boarded and the limitation on gear, weapons, crafting is terribly unrewarding. The game certainly is giving players something new to endure... and that is general boredom within three months.

 

PS Star Wars is not succeeding. Sorry for that. Its more of a light snack before something better and more seriously challenging comes along. Well unless you just like watching games instead of actually playing them.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Dekkau

[MisanthropicJedi]

Nothing in the game world changes with any of the decisions outside of a particular quest or quest chain and there is no feeling of influence in any sense of the word. How do you delude yourselves to not see that?

 

As an Inquisitor, when I play through Nar Shadaa I have an entire cult dedicated to me and they serve NO purpose after I leave the planet. I become a Council member and NOBODY ever addresses me as such.

Edited April 3, 2012 by MisanthropicJedi

[afloridaboy]

Nothing in the game world changes with any of the decisions outside of a particular quest or quest chain and here is no feeling of influence in any sense of the word.

No MMO does this and it'd be impossible to accomplish, given that people want to play together.

 

I admit, I'm on my first toon on this game but I love the story. Yes, I realize it's linear but it feels like KOTOR2 (the original KOTOR2 never happened, believe me) with the occasional grouping required.

 

I'm not sure I would make a second republic toon, even if it's a different class. Same non-class quests (I assume, at least). But making a sith toon for a completely new story would be fun.

 

The main odd thing about this game is there is no "stormwind" where you go back to constantly to sell stuff, buy stuff, train at, etc. So you almost always feel like you are alone in the world. Which is both weird, nice, and sad (when you get a heroic) all at the same time.

 

And I love the on-rails space shooter. It's mindless entertainment when you first wake up.

[amantheil]

Nothing in the game world changes with any of the decisions outside of a particular quest or quest chain and there is no feeling of influence in any sense of the word. How do you delude yourselves to not see that?

 

As an Inquisitor, when I play through Nar Shadaa I have an entire cult dedicated to me and they serve NO purpose after I leave the planet. I become a Council member and NOBODY ever addresses me as such.

No MMO does this and it'd be impossible to accomplish, given that people want to play together.

 

Actually, WoW does do that through phasing. It's not at all impossible to accomplish. It has had some hiccups, and can interfere with group play - but you can see the effects of actions you've done. Zones look different after you've completed a quest, no matter how many times you go back (to be fair, Blizzard has also admitted they went overboard with phasing and made some areas too linear). And NPCs will address you differently based on your actions and reputation.

 

And WoW is not anywhere near the 'sandbox' other MMOs are.

 

But I didn't know that you could get a cult devoted to you as an Inquisitor! I'm going to have to play one.

 

Anyway, SWTOR's leveling is incredibly well done and very enjoyable. I'm having a lot of fun.

 

But it really is not particularly revolutionary or paradigm-changing. The companions and light-side/dark-side decisions add some twists, but don't fundamentally change the results of the process. If you choose light-side one NPC gives you a reward. If you choose dark-side, a different NPC gives you an award. The voice-acting and quest dialogue is very interactive, but also can be restrictive. I've found from other Bioware games (NWN and Dragon Age:Origins) that all the dialogue options get incredibly annoying the 2nd or 3rd time through, as you've already heard it all and just want to get through it.

 

And leveling is much, much more linear in SWTOR than it is even in WoW, which is a fairly linear game in it's own right. You're going to go through the same zones/planets and do many of the same quests on the same characters in a faction. And I've found that some of the quests are almost identical even for the different factions.

Edited April 3, 2012 by amantheil

[Lostkoss]

The ego and epeen are strong with this one.

 

Please, tell us more about how back in the old days you had to level characters uphill in the snow with no shoes on.

 

 

I actually played UO with the dude you are so easily dismissing and deriding.

 

 

This is why we can't have nice things anymore.

[Lostkoss]

No MMO does this and it'd be impossible to accomplish, given that people want to play together.

 

I admit, I'm on my first toon on this game but I love the story. Yes, I realize it's linear but it feels like KOTOR2 (the original KOTOR2 never happened, believe me) with the occasional grouping required.

 

I'm not sure I would make a second republic toon, even if it's a different class. Same non-class quests (I assume, at least). But making a sith toon for a completely new story would be fun.

 

The main odd thing about this game is there is no "stormwind" where you go back to constantly to sell stuff, buy stuff, train at, etc. So you almost always feel like you are alone in the world. Which is both weird, nice, and sad (when you get a heroic) all at the same time.

 

And I love the on-rails space shooter. It's mindless entertainment when you first wake up.

 

 

impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ...

 

 

In UO in 1998 I could buy and put a up a house anywhere there was open land, and turn it into a fort, a bunker, a stash house, or even a store or tavern. Once I set that house down I CHANGED THE WORLD ON WHICH I PLAYED UNTIL I STOPPED MAINTAINING IT.

 

Your definition of impossible and mine must be very different.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Lostkoss

[Snibb]

impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ...

 

 

In UO in 1998 I could buy and put a up a house anywhere there was open land, and turn it into a fort, a bunker, a stash house, or even a store or tavern. Once I set that house down I CHANGED THE WORLD ON WHICH I PLAYED UNTIL I STOPPED MAINTAINING IT.

 

Your definition of impossible and mine must be very different.

 

Yes, this whole "it's impossible" attitude is silly. If it can be thought of, it can be done in a virtual world. FREE YOUR MIND!

 

I also played UO and enjoyed many of the freedoms in that game.

[Calsidian]

The game starts at Character gen and continues up through endgame and , thankfully, our choices along the way linger and matter. The reason I am playing MMOs again becuase the broke away from the competition-driven only-endgame-matters model.

 

How do the choices linger and matter? What affect do they have on the path of the story, or on the world?

[thominoh]

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

 

I agree 190%.. Doing the storyline quest is great the FIRST time around.. BARELY tolerable the 2nd time.. BUT the idea of repeating ALL the non-class missions a 3rd, 4th, 5th or MORE time is game breaking.. As I said in another post.. I'm already cringing and finding excuses to NOT log on because I hate doing the same non-class specific missions a 3rd time..

[Calsidian]

I agree 190%.. Doing the storyline quest is great the FIRST time around.. BARELY tolerable the 2nd time.. BUT the idea of repeating ALL the non-class missions a 3rd, 4th, 5th or MORE time is game breaking.. As I said in another post.. I'm already cringing and finding excuses to NOT log on because I hate doing the same non-class specific missions a 3rd time..

 

I tend to agree. Even if the quests are voice acted, they are not really all that compelling (there are some exceptions). The class quests by and large are of a higher quality, and I always look forward to doing them.

 

Fortunately, if you use other outlets such as PvP and space missions you can supplement enough exp to focus on the class quests and mostly ignore the others (still have to do some here and there). In the future, it'll be great if the Legacy System unlocked exp boosts for alts to make this even more viable. I'd like to experience all the different stories available in the game, but the prospect of repeating all the filler in between makes it very unappealing.

[Mythic_MK_II]

Yeah I liked the 1-50 story/grind.

 

I do like endgame though alot of improvements are needed to make it more attractable to others. (don't mind my spelling please)

 

PVP is fun and frustrating at the same time. and raids are fun. but the low populated servers kills that fun. Too many servers atm. I hope that 1.2 will let the numbers grow.

[Muskaan]

@OP - yes, and ends 2 weeks after you hit level 50.

[Liake]

There is nothing unique to this game besides the voice acting, and that's nothing special either. People have been pumped for this game for so long that they're afraid to admit that it's nothing great. Let's give some examples.

 

8 different unique gameplays to go through? Yeah right. More like 2. 1 For Republic and 1 For Imperials. Because no matter what class you play, every planet is the same with the same quests with the exception of about 4-5 class quests. At least in WoW you had about 8 different areas to level every time so you could change it up.

 

Unique quests? Wrong. The quests in here are just like every other MMO and you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

 

Now to stay on-topic with this threads topic, nothing you do at low levels has any effect to you at max level. I've yet to see story line decisions impact ANYTHING in future story, for everyone I've spared I get crap in my mailbox, that is it. The LS and DS decisions only seem to be for gear and nothing else. I guess the one thing you can do at low levels is rank up your valor.

 

All in all, this game is a dumbed down WoW with voice acting.

[quarlo]

I agree the game begins at level 1, and ends at 50. Then it's time to roll an alt.

 

It would be nice but your choices really don't affect your story in any way. You can choose 'light side' options from beginning to end and you're still gonna do the same class quests in the same order. There are only a few choices that you make that can change how a quest plays out (example: the choices where you convice Darth Jadus to surrender without a bugged fight) but in the end you reach the same conclusion no matter what you chose.

 

You're choice only effect the color of your skin and your eyes and whether your companion wants to do it with you. Period.

[CorellianWannabe]

 

 

 

Well, granted it doesn't compare to the constant variety and excitement of running the same flashpoints and ops over and over, but to each their own.

 

Instead you get to run the same missions over and over-since only 15% or so will be exclusive to that class. Hell you don't even get the variety of alternate planets to choose-it's starter-capital-each planet down the line, with one flip depending on faction.

[CorellianWannabe]

Irony must escape you on a daily basis.

 

1. Even though your number is arbitrary, the fact that its 20% different for a same-faction playthrough (THAT ARE BOTH SITH) is revolutionary for any MMO, and majority of single-player RPGs, too. You think Skyrim gives a **** if your story experience is any different on a new playthrough?

 

Oddly enough I didn't finish every quest and explore every nook and cranny before reaching level cap in Skyrim.

 

As for playing the same faction? Apparently multiple leveling zones were too much for Bioware so they had to shoehorn in reasons for all classes to be on the same planet at the same time, stopping moisture pirates and endless alien gangsters.

 

What's different? All your skills, rotations, items, and probably crafting. All story areas. All companions. HOPEFULLY your roleplaying (but in your case I doubt it).

 

You're right-and no other game with multiple classes has any of that, right? I mean it's not like you can play a sneaky archer in Skyrim then play a mage or anything.

 

Roleplaying what? Light/dark side options that can be overwritten through Diplomacy or grinding the first flashpoint? Companion affection that is easily bought through gifts, meaning that all of them are shallow and materialistic?

 

Real roleplaying means I could kill Quinn for betraying me, or tell Skadge to get his blubber off my ship, or having Mako hate my dark side bounty hunter who acts more like an assassin. MMOs don't allow real consequences so why bother pretending they do?

 

But you're totally right - its much better to have completed tiered raid content within the first few months with ludicrously low drop rates so that you get to relive that same 2% of content over and over.

 

Yes it's totally better to do the same planets over and over because this time you're going to see if Zash's storyline is so totally different from Baras'.

 

2. You can buy racial unlocks with credits. The more you know

 

So instead you get to grind credits? Thank you EA for looking out for the poor credit farmer! I know they pay their 15/month as well, and had been overlooked for too long!

[CorellianWannabe]

What's different? All your skills, rotations, items, and probably crafting. All story areas. All companions. HOPEFULLY your roleplaying (but in your case I doubt it).

 

B

 

BTW 'roleplaying' one of three dialogue choices insults the term.

[amantheil]

BTW 'roleplaying' one of three dialogue choices insults the term.

 

Yes, completing a multiple choice isn't roleplaying, especially if every choice usually leads to the same outcome. And half the time what comes out of your mouth doesn't match the choice you selected.

[amantheil]

Instead you get to run the same missions over and over-since only 15% or so will be exclusive to that class. Hell you don't even get the variety of alternate planets to choose-it's starter-capital-each planet down the line, with one flip depending on faction.

 

Oh I agree. If you look at my posting history you will see me complain about that. But why are people falling into the trap that SWTOR can only have a rich leveling experience OR an engaging endgame? We, as customers should be demanding Bioware provides BOTH.

[Moromillas]

Not the same for me. A lot of the missions felt like a grind, and there was just no motivation for my character to do them. But I myself needed to do them just to level up. Not so for the story missions and a few other missions also, they were indeed awesome.

[Antipodes]

The class quests immediately pulled me in. It feels great to have an MMO with a story that is easily on par with a single player RPG. Even more amazing that there are eight of these stories.

 

If I had to fault anything with the leveling process, it is that the enemy designs are so boring from a gameplay perspective. They never felt more than just being configurations of standard, strong, etc without any personality.

 

+ Class quests

+ Main planet questline

+ Gorgeously detailed planet aesthetics

+ Solid class design

- Enemy design

- Filler quests

Edited April 6, 2012 by Antipodes

[Tojo_Hammer]

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

 

Not really. The story is okay the first time around. I am on my 4th toon and honestly I just skip the cutscenes by now. It is still a grind to me. It just takes longer because I have to watch my character do crappy cutscenes where sometimes what is happening on the screen doesn't even look realisitc.

 

PS: End Game content in this game is almost non-existant so its hardly a fair comparison