WayOfTheWarriorx Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) This changes absolutely nothing in PVP. They will still be Op. Nobody cares about the DPS. These changes may effect PVE a bit, but, in PVP, it will barely be noticeable. Better than nothing? Yeah. They should have lost the 30% surge bonus like every other class did in 4.0 ages ago anyways. Other than that, Pointless. Terrible job. Can't say they're not consistent. Edited June 16, 2017 by WayOfTheWarriorx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotsanerv Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I'd leave DPS alone, and focus on their DCDs. They're not over-performing in PVP because they hit too hard, and they're not over-performing in operations. The only offensive weapon that needs to be addressed is e-net. Give player targets a debuff that lasts as long as e-net's cooldown and keeps them from having another applied until the debuff wears off. Ratchet down the DCDs a bit without making the class un-playable ranked wz's again. ..That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) •The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) That's a hit to burst damage. This should tone down nubshot and noobseeker missiles alittle, alteast in pvp. It won't be that big of a deal though. If your former Surge was 100%, it's now 85%. So instead of doing 200% damage (since that is what a Crit does with 100% surge) you'll do 185% damage. Say 10.000 is base, then 200% is 20.000. 185% however is 18500. That's not a 15% nerf. That's a 7.5% nerf. Why? Because your Surge is only accounting for half the damage of the hit. It still does 10.000 damage with 0% Surge. This Surge nerf isn't as huge as some people here think it is. It doesn't reduce their Crits by 15% of their total. 38k turns into 35k. Not into 32k. Edited June 16, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preminous Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The thing that irritates me... DPS output and survival stuff only matters to PvP. So we're going to nerf a class so it's not as good in end game content raids...because PvPers don't like it. Outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 The thing that irritates me... DPS output and survival stuff only matters to PvP. So we're going to nerf a class so it's not as good in end game content raids...because PvPers don't like it. Outstanding. None of the PvPers want this change either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloi_BG Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 •The critical damage bonus provided by Target Tracking is now 15% (down from 30%) That's a hit to burst damage. This should tone down nubshot and noobseeker missiles alittle, alteast in pvp. **** forgot about that change rip my calculations. They should remove that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloi_BG Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 They didn't need nerfs for PvE at all. I raid Nightmare on a weekly basis with some of the games finest Mercinaries, and not once did I feel like they were overperforming. So even in that regard, it doesn't make any sense. Considering combat team's objectives yes they are. Also the fast that IO was barely better than arsenal was another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) The thing that irritates me... DPS output and survival stuff only matters to PvP. So we're going to nerf a class so it's not as good in end game content raids...because PvPers don't like it. Outstanding. Maybe you should play a game that doesn't have PvP...This game does though, and because of that, you'll often get changes that impact both mini-games equally. There was a way to avoid that (mostly), but Expertise was taken away with 5.0...not that it mattered, Expertise was never used like it should have been. Edit: and since when does dps output not matter to a raiding team??? Edited June 16, 2017 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerkWork Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) While I agree that the dps nerf is a little too much, and I don't even play Arsenal (I used to, still know it very well). Yes utilities are an issue. From a pve perspective Marksman and Lightning are technically viable for endgame fights. Even without the chain lightning bug. Unfortunately, it takes skill to perform at those levels. There are videos of both lightning and marksman being used on nightmare Brontes, for example. And they weren't being carried. My point is that this is not the end of the world. In pvp they will still be perfectly viable. We will hopefully see less games where over 50% of the players are mercs. In pve it just requires people to step up their game with Arsenal and also to learn IO. In the end it'll make them better players. Again, I do not agree with how drastic the dps nerf is. Instead it would have made more sense for Mm and lightning to receive buffs and Arsenal to receive a slight nerf. Hopefully they'll address the utilities in 5,4. For now, we wait. Oh they certainly were being carried by both other classes and the fact we are in quite overgeared for the current content. To say they aren't would be silly. Considering combat team's objectives yes they are. Also the fast that IO was barely better than arsenal was another issue. Considering their goal is just like 3.0, flawed and making a problem of their own creation. Also they said they are nerfing IO damage as well so it won't change IO for the better. Edited June 16, 2017 by FerkWork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Considering combat team's objectives yes they are. Also the fast that IO was barely better than arsenal was another issue. The Combat Teams "objectives" are clearly *********** wrong. Why are you even still arguing this fact? Honestly by all means, take these changes. Just don't come crawling to me when you do get your defensives taken away in 5.5 and the class goes back into 2.x states again. I for one am an advocate for a balanced game where all classes have a place in the meta. And I don't want to see Bioware continue this horrible practise of fundamentally flawed ideology with Balancing. Edited June 16, 2017 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakkoon Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 SMH Prolly get trolled for my opinion and I don't even have a commando so it's more of a general statement I would post an opinion but even though you have seemed to have made a great effort to be more transparent. I still have little faith that you come back and read any of these comments. I take this as this is what we are gonna do good luck. I really honestly believe that y'all don't put enough thought into the things you do. I also understand that it's a very hard job to balance a class for pve and pvp. That being said I don't feel that you take both into account when you do balance. I think you balance one way making it over tuned for PvP then you have to go back to the drawing board and balance the other direction making them way less effective in pve to the point where it ultimately hurts the class very greatly in pve. I could be completely wrong and you might have gotten it right this time. I mean really even a blind mouse finds cheese every once in a while. Guess we just wait and see and try it out pts. Hey folks, Round 2! Below are the changes planned for Arsenal Merc / Gunnery Commando in Game Update 5.3. Here are the notes from the Combat Team: Let us know what you think of the changes coming to Arsenal and Gunnery in GU 5.3. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jackhack Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Why are you gimping their heat management and nerf their damage, that is not needed at all. As people said in previous posts you just need to ******* remove TRAUMA REGULATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomyBoy Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 I won't read the 6 pages, but this change is actually equal to nothing. DPS will still be too high. Way too many DCDs still. Only class to crit for 35-40k is merc/commando. No other class does the same. I main a sentinel in allmost BiS gear and a commando heal/DPS in 240/242 gear. Max i crit on sentinel is ~29k and on commando easy 32-36k (Range DPS LOL). This changes won't change nothing. Most ppl at BW seem to love merc/commando class IMO. This isn't fair. After so many months and so many ppl complaining (note the complaints topics on the PVP forum) about merc/commando class this is unfair. PVP isn't fun anymore with each match having 3-6 mercs in it. Thank you Bioware for not giving a squat about the ppl playing this game. "Congrats!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuskyBoy Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 It's never been about the damage it's about the survivability. I don't know why people are complaining about trauma regulators so much it's energy rebounders that make TR so powerful. If TR is up every 2 minutes (which is what it would be without ER) then is questionable what worth it is in compared with other utilities, but on a 40 sec Cd which is what it is with ER then it's a H2F every 50 secs. Remove ER fix the snare on BB (make Arsenal mercs have to kite melee) and yes the nerf to chaff flare is good and mercs are fine. Removing ER also removes cheese dps from the class in PVE because it amplifies pyro shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloi_BG Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) The Combat Teams "objectives" are clearly *********** wrong. Why are you even still arguing this fact? Honestly by all means, take these changes. Just don't come crawling to me when you do get your defensives taken away in 5.5 and the class goes back into 2.x states again. Trust me I won't. I believe we got to work with the team and offer them input that fits with their "ideology". Saying "you guys are bad" is generally not the way to have people listen to your input. I guess you probably told them about your view on class balance in the other thread (where they actually discuss how they do it), if not I invite you to do so. I personally agreed with the "tiers" they make, though as I said (in more details) in that thread, gap is too big and it needs to take AOE damage into account. Here we can discuss how they choose to adapt arsenal DPS considering that other thread. Well I think blazing bolts is a good ability to nerf in regards of lowering DPS. Not too sure about the 30% -> 15% change as I think arsenal burst doesn't need to be lowered (and BB and barrage changes are already a bit too much). Edited June 16, 2017 by Eloi_BG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 They only thing is.. the damage didn't have to be changed. This is going to hurt PvE, where it hardly matters, and do nothing for PvP.. which is the whole reason this class needed change. ^this Then the survivability will get nerfed and arsenal will be a garbage spec. Arsenal damage did not need a nerf (maybe except the critic damage on HSM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloomyBoy Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Arsenal damage did not need a nerf (maybe except the critic damage on HSM). You need a brain control then LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulis Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Let us know what you think of the changes coming to Arsenal and Gunnery in GU 5.3. Thanks! Couldn't disagree more. I can't comment on PVP (not an area I have any interest in) but from a PVE perspective this is not good at all. I already can't hold a candle to the smugglers and sentinels at equal gear levels, so these changes will only serve to increase the gap. If you were trying to fix something in PVP, then you should implement a change that only kicks in when you enter a PVP instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 You need a brain control then LOL Nice english. It would suffer from natural decay in damage done if Mercinaries would be forced to play more on a defensive front. Rather than staying balls deep in your face from the moment they open fire untill they moment you magically find enough damage to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardera Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) yep like we all anticipated you dont know what to do with class change the Merc damage was not the problem now the spec will be barely viable for Ops and still dominate in PVP...the pvper will still cry and i will stop my sub because i dont want to grind another 1000+ desintecrate to gear another of my toons for ops Edited June 16, 2017 by scardera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) So basically Commandos/Mercenaries will remain BETTER TANKS than Powertechs/Vanguards, because you're not touching their OP DCDs that no DPS/healer class has any business having, DCDs that put every tanking spec in this game to shame (no tank in this game has 3 lives like Commandos/Mercenaries do), and all you're doing is nerfing their DPS a little bit (which no one was really complaining about in comparison to their incredible survivability, as I recall) which will just make Mercs/Mandos less useful in PvE and won't touch the severe balance problems in PvP at all. Is that a good summary of these (lack of) changes? I think it is! Edited June 16, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealDarkOmega Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 So you go over the top and Nerf it so no one wants to use it again like you did to dps sorc? Great work! Tell me again which of you actually play the game other than to dick around on a stream so you know how things actually play in real time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokimogor Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Wrong way of going for balancing, these changes ignore the real issue. Considering that you are going to cost enough DMV off the mercy commando to make them unplayable in pve. Guess it's time to gear up my alinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerfist Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 lol making them useless in pve now u guys really have no clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadagyt Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Is that a good summary of these (lack of) changes? I think it is! Don't forget the new heat management problems mercs will have. This is just horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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