Discussion Topic: Class Changes This Summer

[KittyKat_Karrot]

Hey keith , these are my proposed changes

Mercenary:

Remove Trauma regulators and give it to powertechs, this should solve the OP merc in ranked pvp :PArsenal:

Make the Barrage internal cooldown either 7.5 sec or 9 sec, right now its 8secs and not a multiple of a GCD. it will turn into a rotation instead of priority based

IO:

Make the dot spread easier, right now it takes 2 different abilities to spread 2 dots and is heavy energy negative.

1.fusion missile should spread both the dots

2.make energy management somewhat easier, example: proccing speed to burn gives 5 energy.

3.make death from above free of cost as it has very long cooldown (45s) and helps in energy managenment.

Sniper:

Engineering:

1. plasma probe slow effect: chnage it from 70% to 30% slow.

Virulence:

make weakening blast off GCD, it will make the spec some what burstier reducing the ramp up time

right now its" dot dot WB than cull, thats 3 gcd with no real damage

Sorcerer:

Lightning:

1.Remove the cast time of chain lightning, aka make it instant always that should solve dps problems

Madness:

1. Increase damage from Demolish by 10%

2. Force lightning gives back 2% of force instead of 1%

3.increase the damage in execute by creeping death from 15% to 30%.

Powertech:

New Utility: Trauma regulators

new ability: responsive safeguards

Pyrotech:

1.searing wave buff it by 10% damage

2. searing wave does not cost any energy with 2 stacks of superheated flamethrower, it should solve the energy problems.

3.change the burnout damage from 10% to 30% in execute phase

4. spread both scorch and incendiary with searing wave

5. buff flame burst by 10%

6.sonic missile increases AOE damage reduction by 60% for 15secs , similar to juggs , will make them less squishy.

 

Too much dumbing down in these suggestions.

[VaantheLoneWolf]

I would like to suggest, hoping that others find this useful as well, a reduced cooldown for Force Push on Guardians?

 

I just find this a bit contradictory since the Consular's Force Wave has a cooldown of around 15 seconds, and this one has a one minute cooldown. Could we get it's cooldown time reduced to 15 seconds? Or at least 20-25?

 

Thank you.

[slukslaksla]

A couple of things:

Both Sorc dps specs need buffs. I don't know anyone who understands game balance who disagrees.

 

I'm not sure what you and your friend are doing, but if you can't get crits over 15k, then you are doing something wrong. The average crit for my Thundering Blast is 19-20k, and I'm not in full 248.

 

Sorc Healing is too powerful in PvP, and it needs some adjustments. While they can nerf the healing a little bit, they need to address this as a PvP issue as too much will hurt PvE healing. One idea that I've seen that I quite like is using bolster to nerf overall healing by a significant amount or buff PvP trauma.

 

Merc DCDs need to be nerfed but their damage is fine. Other classes simply need damage buffs.

 

yee i agree. when it coems to our crits well that was just what my friend told me i have not actualy confirmed it msyelf sry if it was wrong. ligthing still sucks though.

[LadyArdor]

I see Sorc (lightning) is seriously nerfed badly dps and survivability wise. I don't even play any of my Sorcs except for doing pve dailies and heroics and bounty contract event. How can I do anything else when I know I'm going to insta-die cuz I can't live long enough to even keep myself healed?

 

Marksman needs some lovin.

 

Mercs...their healing I'm not sure about except the insta-healing is a pita, but their defenses are way powerful and needs some nerfing.

 

Sins. We want our phase walk back! And some love too. My main is a Darkness Sin and mainly pvp. I find it occasionally difficult to keep up with Juggs, Snipers/Ops and Mercs unless they're squishy or have assists or am giving assists. Gunslingers are less an issue. Ranged classes seem to love going after me... Could it be that I'm a tank with a little bit self healing, dark ward and reflect, and stealth? lol I do love my stealth

 

Better yet, don't nerf anything but raise all advanced classes so they are more even but each has their own niche they are the most proficient in (which it really should be instead of all over the place)

 

I also give another vote for a PVE and PVP specific ability trees. It would help those who mainly pve and raid/ops vs pvp. To be able to switch back and forth would be very efficient and helpful.

Edited June 9, 2017 by LadyArdor

[Toraak]

I guess it's more about the general gameflow and less about DPS ranking or burst-vs-dot issues..

 

It's kind of odd that Weakening Blast is an active skill although it doesn't really do that much on it's own. It should rather be an off-GCD enhancement (like Illegal Mods, Recklessness or Deadly Saber).

 

So I actually agree with OverLordRAMM.

 

 

To solve the DPS & energy issues shouldn't be that hard.

 

First, I'd lower the DoT duration of both Corrosive Dart and Corrosive Grenade to 18s. The additional duration isn't necessary for this spec.

 

Although you'd save a GCD every 12 GCDs if Weakening Blast would be off-GCD, you'd then have to refresh both DoTs every 12 GCDs rather than every 16 GCD, which would already eat up most of the free GCDs.

 

To compensate for the additional energy consumption, Takedown should be free of cost if it's used after the Lethal Takedown trigger. If that isn't enough, Lethal Injectors could lowers the cost of Corrosive Dart by 5~10 energy instead. Furthermore, Target Demolition could reduce the energy cost of Cull as well and Lethal Purpose could lower the CD of Adrenaline Probe by 30s instead. But most preferrably, I'd love to see the chance that DoTs deal damage twice be increased to 20~25%... which would result in more criticals and therefore more energy.

 

If the resulting DPS would be too high, change the passives that provide a +5% damage bonus to Cull, Lethal Shot, etc. into a +5% crit. chance bonus. This would fit the theme that DoT crit. chance was increased by 5% as well.

 

Because currently, one of the 'biggest' issues of Virulence is that Lethal Shot - your bread & butter filler skill - deals too much damage for other skills to be competable. It deals ~11k damage on average, just like Takedown. So why would a player even care about the latter? But if Takedown would be free of cost, it would be a useful tool for a good energy management.

 

And the same is true for Series of Shots (currently ~18k damage over 2 GCDs). Not enough damage to compete with Lethal Shot, but at least more energy efficient.

 

Here is the thing. because you want to remove 1 skill off of the GCD (weakening blast), you need to tweak multiple other abilities to help with energy management. With weakening blast on the GCD, we do not need to change anything for energy management because we

1) have a very good DPS specs atm

2) currently we have no major energy management issues if your doing your rotation correctly.

3) doing as you want, would make a DoT spec to bursty. (They're not supposed to be very bursty, they are sustained DPS, not burst DPS.)

 

So to be 100% blunt, your Idea is unnecessary. No point to change what isn't broken.

[Bakeneggncheese]

I say let us, the players test this before it goes live. We can test PVE as well as PVP. My only concern you won't consider our feedback so...like you always do put it live and let the nerf calls begin.

[Fireswraith]

Just give all heal classes/specs the same passives/abilities, and the same for all tank and dps classes/specs (different animations of course). Balance solved, everyone is great or sucks together.

[embrm]

I main shadow/assassin and Sorc/sage.

 

So far the changes seem pretty decent all around, much better than the last batch of changes, but I will wait and see how they play out when they actually drop.

[realleaftea]

Here is the thing. because you want to remove 1 skill off of the GCD (weakening blast), you need to tweak multiple other abilities to help with energy management. With weakening blast on the GCD, we do not need to change anything for energy management because we

1) have a very good DPS specs atm

2) currently we have no major energy management issues if your doing your rotation correctly.

3) doing as you want, would make a DoT spec too bursty. (They're not supposed to be very bursty, they are sustained DPS, not burst DPS.)

 

So to be 100% blunt, your Idea is unnecessary. No point to change what isn't broken.

First of all, Virulence is - as I've already stated - broken in a dfferent way: Lethal Shot is too good for other skills to compete.

 

Therefore, the only difficulty is to get enough energy to use it all day long. I mean it can contribute more than >27% to your total damage, even more than the DoTs themself (ranking around 17~20%).

 

So you better call it a Vital Shot spec rather than a DoT spec because the DoTs just happen to be the best way to get the energy needed. And IMO, the 24s duration of the DoTs underlines their nature of being rarely used 'support' skills. This makes the spec quite dull.

 

So yes, ito make Weakening Blast an off-GCD enhancement would make other changes necessary, but it would make the spec way more interesting. To lower the duration of the DoTs to fill out the empty GCDs f.e. wouldn't affect this spec at all, but would support their importance.

 

And if you want it really easy, Weakening Blast could make the next skill used free of cost (or regen 10~15 energy on use). Therefore, it wouldn't cause any energy issues at all. However, I still prefer Takedown to be free of cost instead, simply to make this skill a relevant part of your rotation. So no energy issues either.

 

So the only unanswered part is the 'would make the spec too bursty' part.

 

Well, first of all, keep in mind that we talk about 3 GCDs + Cull vs. 2 GCDs + Cull. Damage might even go down since Weakening Blast won't deal an initial damage but rather be like an additional 'lingering DoT'. So this must be the point where you draw the line between 'bursty' and 'too bursty'.

 

Ok them, let's lower the duration of Weakening Blast to 6s, just like the normal 'lingering DoT' effect. It would even give this spec a greater focus on the 'lingering' theme. With the lower damage, would it still be in the 'too bursty' category? if so, I already mentioneed to replace the 5% damage boosts for +5% crit. passives,

 

So you, the definition how you decide whether a spec is too bursty or not is quite subjective and could be easily taken care of. But all that aside, I'd like to know why a class can't be bursty, just because it uses an ongoing effect to deal some extra damage rather than a passive that increases armor penetration (arsenal) or crit. chance / crit. damage (marksman)?

[omaan]

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

 

You will obviously have a number of questions, but here’s a few that may be on your mind:

 

Why are these Disciplines being looked at for changes?

Between data and player feedback, these are the Disciplines that appear to be most in need of change. Whether that is that they are too good, or not good enough, these Disciplines need attention first.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

When will we receive a detailed breakdown of the changes?

I will be working with the team on getting the exact changes out to you as soon as they are ready. Based on what I know today, we will start posting those threads (which will be posted by Discipline) this week and throughout June.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

 

First and foremost, i hope you wont make new super fotm class (from sorcs specifically). There were many threads about sorcs but - IT DOESNT MEAN YOU MUST BUFF THEM TO BE GODS

Secondly, both pt require attention lol. Advanced prototype is very squishy at the moment even though they have good dps, so they need some slight defense buff. However, i agree that dot pt is in the very bad shape, mostly useless since it has both bad defense and dps. Nevertheless, pls watch for advanced prototype changes.

THIRDLY, pls do something with operatives - they have low dos but huge defensives cds which makes this class quite booring and difficult to kill even by 2-3 players vs 1 operative. Slight buff to dps and slight nerf to defenses would be great.

[oli-fynnobi]

Hey Eric!

Just wanted to ask why Jugg DPS isn't in the list? I mean, they're obviously under performing.

The Damage output of Juggernaut is pretty decent/good, but the survivalbility is pretty...yea...****.

They're a pretty weak in survival. They need a little buff.

There's also a post about Jugg Changes/Buffs: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=923330

Edited June 10, 2017 by oli-fynnobi

[Zolxtren]

Hey Eric!

Just wanted to ask why Jugg DPS isn't in the list? I mean, they're obviously under performing.

The Damage output of Juggernaut is pretty decent/good, but the survivalbility is pretty...yea...****.

They're a pretty weak in survival. They need a little buff.

 

Lighting sorc and Jugg dps does not exist for them it seems the 2 most brokenly weak class lol

[DarthEnrique]

THIRDLY, pls do something with operatives - they have low dos but huge defensives cds which makes this class quite booring and difficult to kill even by 2-3 players vs 1 operative. Slight buff to dps and slight nerf to defenses would be great.

 

This sooooo this, their cooldowns need a major nerf to match every other class, it's always moving around and stabbing the living bajesus out of someone while you struggle to focus on them and get them away from you, stun them or anything, half the times when you end up against an operative and with no healer in site, your dead by the time anyone can help you because of their cooldowns. They also need to be less mobile.

[Bakeneggncheese]

This sooooo this, their cooldowns need a major nerf to match every other class, it's always moving around and stabbing the living bajesus out of someone while you struggle to focus on them and get them away from you, stun them or anything, half the times when you end up against an operative and with no healer in site, your dead by the time anyone can help you because of their cooldowns. They also need to be less mobile.

 

Hopefully this is sarcasm...if it isn't maybe bioware should just do everyone a favor and kill two birds with one stone and delete operatives, scoundrels, snipers and gunslingers. Problem solved so much hate for a misunderstood class...play one and see how well you do under focus fire.

[Toraak]

First of all, Virulence is - as I've already stated - broken in a dfferent way: Lethal Shot is too good for other skills to compete.

 

Therefore, the only difficulty is to get enough energy to use it all day long. I mean it can contribute more than >27% to your total damage, even more than the DoTs themself (ranking around 17~20%).

 

So you better call it a Vital Shot spec rather than a DoT spec because the DoTs just happen to be the best way to get the energy needed. And IMO, the 24s duration of the DoTs underlines their nature of being rarely used 'support' skills. This makes the spec quite dull.

 

So yes, ito make Weakening Blast an off-GCD enhancement would make other changes necessary, but it would make the spec way more interesting. To lower the duration of the DoTs to fill out the empty GCDs f.e. wouldn't affect this spec at all, but would support their importance.

 

And if you want it really easy, Weakening Blast could make the next skill used free of cost (or regen 10~15 energy on use). Therefore, it wouldn't cause any energy issues at all. However, I still prefer Takedown to be free of cost instead, simply to make this skill a relevant part of your rotation. So no energy issues either.

 

So the only unanswered part is the 'would make the spec too bursty' part.

 

Well, first of all, keep in mind that we talk about 3 GCDs + Cull vs. 2 GCDs + Cull. Damage might even go down since Weakening Blast won't deal an initial damage but rather be like an additional 'lingering DoT'. So this must be the point where you draw the line between 'bursty' and 'too bursty'.

 

Ok them, let's lower the duration of Weakening Blast to 6s, just like the normal 'lingering DoT' effect. It would even give this spec a greater focus on the 'lingering' theme. With the lower damage, would it still be in the 'too bursty' category? if so, I already mentioneed to replace the 5% damage boosts for +5% crit. passives,

 

So you, the definition how you decide whether a spec is too bursty or not is quite subjective and could be easily taken care of. But all that aside, I'd like to know why a class can't be bursty, just because it uses an ongoing effect to deal some extra damage rather than a passive that increases armor penetration (arsenal) or crit. chance / crit. damage (marksman)?

 

So your other reason is because Lethal shot is used to much in the rotation? well would you like to know I don't use it anywhere near as much as certain rotation seem to? It isn't broken at all. I know I use a rotation that doesn't use Lethal shot anywhere near as much as some people. I'm still using a rotation from 3.0 that is a 40 button rotation which includes takedown every time it procs. The tricky thing with my rotation, if you screw it up at all you have no energy. (but it's really good DPS if done currectly and it depends on Weakening blast being on the GCD for energy managment). With my rotation I only have Lethal shot doing 8.9% or so of my damage, and parsing over 10,100.

 

I realize a certain website gives a Lethal shot heavy rotation however it really isn't needed in order to pull great DPS numbers. if you want to see one of my parses, PM me, and i'll give you a link to mine (not posting it openly). This is why I believe nothing needs to change. Virulence really is in a great spot right now, and the other classes need some help is all.

[DarthEnrique]

Hopefully this is sarcasm...if it isn't maybe bioware should just do everyone a favor and kill two birds with one stone and delete operatives, scoundrels, snipers and gunslingers. Problem solved so much hate for a misunderstood class...play one and see how well you do under focus fire.

 

Not being sacrastic at all I'm not saying delete them but serious cool down nerf is needed and less mobility. Look at the Sorcerers/Sages lots of their moves are not mobile moves (some are with some needing to having a Combat proficiency selected) e.g. A Madness Sorcerer's rotation requires you to use force lightning to get demolish to light up (which makes it usable while mobile but otherwise you need to stand still to cast it) but Force Lightning is a move that can't be used while moving you have to stand still to use it, if you don't think operatives should be just as less mobile as a sorcerer than maybe Bioware should make that move useable while mobile otherwise it gives an uneven balance and unequal match in PVP but my guess is people like having an advantage over another instead of having an equal playing field. 🙄

Edited June 10, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[LonelyWookiee]

This sooooo this, their cooldowns need a major nerf to match every other class, it's always moving around and stabbing the living bajesus out of someone while you struggle to focus on them and get them away from you, stun them or anything, half the times when you end up against an operative and with no healer in site, your dead by the time anyone can help you because of their cooldowns. They also need to be less mobile.

 

You've obviously never played an Operative. They have the lowest survivabiltiy of all the classes. Come under focus fire and you'll see what it's like. Yes, they have some cunning moves but can easily be shut down. Buff Operative DPS and defensives.

[DarthEnrique]

You've obviously never played an Operative. They have the lowest survivabiltiy of all the classes. Come under focus fire and you'll see what it's like. Yes, they have some cunning moves but can easily be shut down. Buff Operative DPS and defensives.

 

You obviously haven't played a Sorcerer which has the worst defense in then an operative any day. I find this false as I've warzoned with operatives and they are less likely to die then a sorcerer. Don't tell me not to believe what I've seen and witnessed for myself in a warzone.

THIRDLY, pls do something with operatives - they have low dos but huge defensives cds which makes this class quite booring and difficult to kill even by 2-3 players vs 1 operative. Slight buff to dps and slight nerf to defenses would be great.

 

As I've put in bold here I've seen this happen a lot. So no their survivabilty is fine, not to mention they can stealth out (just as a Sith assassin/Jedi shadow can) and run and heal, at least we're not asking for stealth abilities to be removed from the class. 🙄

Edited June 11, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[Foambreaker]

Have read this thread, and listed the points made. I have boiled them down and summarized everything up to this point.

 

It reads:

 

Nerf him, not me. Sometimes it says "buff me".

 

Pls continue

[Thaladan]

You've obviously never played an Operative. They have the lowest survivabiltiy of all the classes. Come under focus fire and you'll see what it's like. Yes, they have some cunning moves but can easily be shut down. Buff Operative DPS and defensives.

 

rofl

 

play a pyro PT and you'll find your operative really strong to survive

Edited June 11, 2017 by Thaladan

[Ibokagain]

Hopefully this is sarcasm...if it isn't maybe bioware should just do everyone a favor and kill two birds with one stone and delete operatives, scoundrels, snipers and gunslingers. Problem solved so much hate for a misunderstood class...play one and see how well you do under focus fire.

 

For real operatives are way op LOL plz give me a break, maybe some folks should learn their classes since this game has gone way far away from that with lvling now, as any joesmoe can level a toon while drueling all over their keyboard.

 

As for an op 1v3 someone folks those 3 folks def need to learn how to play lol. That made my day thanks for all the laughs.

[Ibokagain]

rofl

 

play a pyro PT and you'll find your operative really strong to survive

 

lol pyro pt plz, PTs need some love but not much they honestly need 1 thing and it's simple a better kolto overload that's it.

 

Operative you can kill pretty simple it's called stun to death done.

[LonelyWookiee]

Sorcerer which has the worst defense in then an operative any day.

 

Then why would you call for a nerf to Operative defense? You should understand what it's like being squishy (and for the record sages/sorcs are far more difficult to shut down than Operatives). It's their mobility in combination with the ability to control a target that allow Operatives to survive in the face of their mediocre defensive abilities. Just because you don't know how to properly counter an Operative doesn't mean they need a nerf.

[Ibokagain]

Then why would you call for a nerf to Operative defense? You should understand what it's like being squishy (and for the record sages/sorcs are far more difficult to shut down than Operatives). It's their mobility in combination with the ability to control a target that allow Operatives to survive in the face of their mediocre defensive abilities. Just because you don't know how to properly counter an Operative doesn't mean they need a nerf.

 

Exactly if you have trouble fighting a specific class, then duel the best one on your server problem solved.

[thesecondlaw]

Thanks for your outreach!

 

As has been already noted, please put Sage Telekinetics/Sorc Lightning as one of your first priorities because it has been severely nerfed and desperately needs greater dps potential.