Server Merge Discussion Thread

[Slowpokeking]

Yeah if only but they are to limited to have cross server the reason is unknown but Keith did say they will never do cross server play in this current version of SWTOR and all future builds of the current game but hey if they were smart they would be working hard on another Star Wars MMO with stuff that is current in today's standards and future proof it.

 

At least the LFG system could have been improved.

 

The current one is wayy outdated, it's only useful for WZ, GSF and uprisings and FPs. Ops works no better than a daily reward quest. Most of the ppl still got to form the group on their own then queue up.

 

It doesn't work on heroic/chain quest/WB/anything else, you have to stay on fleet, keep refreshing the same message while enduring all the trash talking from the general channel. This REALLY sucks compare to GW2's LFG system. And I was surprised that some people were fine with it when I post the issue.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Slowpokeking

[fushnchips]

You're right it could all be coincidence. Servers that were stable for years suddenly becoming unstable when they are "upgraded" and a perpetually unstable server becoming stable after a huge population loss. Could be coincidence I suppose. But then again, sometimes coincidences are more than a coincidence.

 

Also Harbinger and The Red Eclipse are the flagship servers so they might have been testing the mega server structure on them to see how they cope and as we can see things are very stable but we will never know this it's just something that wouldn't be given to the community even though we know they upgraded the servers but what servers and so on if more details were given then we could have better ideas on how things stand with stability.

[Talon_strikes]

AND offering a new server that all the players that demand a big server and lots of random grouping can move to while not denying other players with other choices freedom to play their way.

If Keith has actually stated this and you're not twisting his words, I'd like to know where he said this because I know NOBODY except the very few of the anti-server merge crowd who want dead servers for some reason are the ones advocating for this. The vast majority want actual server merges and no more dead servers.

[fushnchips]

At least the LFG system could have been improved.

 

The current one is wayy outdated, it's only useful for WZ, GSF and uprisings and FPs. Ops works no better than a daily reward quest. Most of the ppl still got to form the group on their own then queue up.

 

It doesn't work on heroic/chain quest/WB/anything else, you have to stay on fleet, keep refreshing the same message while enduring all the trash talking from the general channel. This REALLY sucks compare to GW2's LFG system. And I was surprised that some people were fine with it when I post the issue.

 

We all want it but what are they working with how does it work I heard a rumour many moons ago about cross server in this game it couldn't send the player back to it's source server so it was a giant mess but I also asked Keith to put an end to this rumour but never heard anything but this came from someone who used to work in the team but I heard it down the line so who knows.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

lots of servers are beyond almost dead they are dead and this has been a matter for years in SWTOR they might be talking the talk but until we see action and a road map on this I don't take anything they say serious.

 

Honestly BW's handling of this issue is quite a failure, and so the issue becomes a bit of a joke. I mean so much time has passed since many servers died, and BW has just incompetently allowed its customers to go to dead servers and form an impression that this game is dead, and thus lost many of those customers. To loosely use an analogy, it would be like talking about maybe we shouldn't race the Titanic through the Arctic after the ship's already going down. I don't want to say SWTOR is the Titanic, but my point is how pathetically slow this process is. Let me try a different analogy: the US saying maybe we should develop some heavier tanks in 1945 during the siege of Berlin after watching German tank aces smoke their Shermans (despite being vastly outnumbered) in battles long since past.

Edited August 14, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[DWho]

Your opinion of how people should react to any server merge is foolish in a couple different ways. If your comment is to be believed, you consider it an achievement to be ready to leave the game if you are not satisfied with a server merge. Obviously it's not. Secondly fory any given achievement that you said you accomplished, I would say that it should be doable by any warm body, upright walking biped or unexcited chimpanzee.

 

So your answer is that if you don't get your way, you will continue to complain. Got it.

[Icykill_]

Honestly BW's handling of this issue is quite a failure, and so the issue becomes a bit of a joke. I mean so much time has passed since many servers died, and BW has just incompetently allowed its customers to go to dead servers and form an impression that this game is dead, and thus lost many of those customers. To loosely use an analogy, it would be like talking about maybe we shouldn't race the Titanic through the Arctic after the ship's already going down. I don't want to say SWTOR is the Titanic, but my point is how pathetically slow this process is. Let me try a different analogy: the US saying maybe we should develop some heavier tanks in 1945 during the siege of Berlin after watching German tank aces smoke their Shermans (despite being vastly outnumbered) in battles long since past.

 

I'd use the anology that the titanic passangers could see the iceburg an hour before it hit and were yelling at the captain and crew to change course. But the captain and crew ignored them and only tried to turn after the ship split in half and was sinking.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

if Fleet populations are any indication.

 

They aren't.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You're right it could all be coincidence. Servers that were stable for years suddenly becoming unstable when they are "upgraded" and a perpetually unstable server becoming stable after a huge population loss. Could be coincidence I suppose. But then again, sometimes coincidences are more than a coincidence.

 

And some times straw hats are made from tin foil.

[DWho]

And some times straw hats are made from tin foil.

 

You're only paranoid if people aren't out to get you.

 

My point simply was that there are a lot of technical issues to resolve before a server merge can occur in a way that doesn't drive away population. At this point we have probably lost most of the population we are going to lose due to slow random group content pops. Its already down to only a couple percent of the active population (it used to be around 10% if I recall correctly) and there are a lot of factors that led to that decline. Merging all of the servers into one mega server is probably not the best approach if there are stability issues because the fastest way to get people to leave a game is for them not to be able to log in when they want to.

[casirabit]

If Keith has actually stated this and you're not twisting his words, I'd like to know where he said this because I know NOBODY except the very few of the anti-server merge crowd who want dead servers for some reason are the ones advocating for this. The vast majority want actual server merges and no more dead servers.

 

http://badfeelingpodcast.com/audio/podcasts/episode_162_final.mp3

Server mergers were talked about starting at 24.57.

[Talon_strikes]

Merging all of the servers into one mega server is probably not the best approach if there are stability issues because the fastest way to get people to leave a game is for them not to be able to log in when they want to.

Almost no one is asking for one mega server. Leave the RP servers, have 1 PvE server west coast and 1 east coast (that means closing all the unnecessary PvE and PvP ones), and then for the EU leave the English PvE (TRE) and RP (Progenitor) servers and then maybe leave a PvE server for the German and French players.

 

But right now, there's an unnecessary amount of the servers in NA and EU that need to be merged. They aren't needed. For example, JC and Shadowlands shouldn't be competing for the same party, thus should be merged.

 

http://badfeelingpodcast.com/audio/podcasts/episode_162_final.mp3

Server mergers were talked about starting at 24.57.

Thank you for that. You proved my point. That user was essentially twisting Keith's words. I listened up till the 31min mark where they switched gears to QoL and not once did he even suggest that a totally new server be created and that be deemed the biggest server. No one would leave Harb, it would just be another dead server no one would use.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Talon_strikes

[DWho]

No one would leave Harb, it would just be another dead server no one would use.

 

That was pretty much the core of what he said. No one would be forced to move to another server if they did not want to. They would provide incentives to get people to move but would not force them to. This is what a lot of people have been suggesting. Effectively creating a high population server by encouraging people to move but not forcing them to. The real question becomes, do enough people want to move to a high population server to make it populous enough for the random group crowd. I think that is a question yet to be answered.

[Khaleg]

I love how this thread and others like them have moved along. What was once:

 

We don't need a server merge cause our population is fine

 

has now turned into:

 

We don't need a server merge we do everything you need to do in our guild

 

down the road a bit more will it be:

 

I don't need a server merge I just log in and hang out in my stronghold trying on outfits

 

Oh yeah, true words. So annoying ridiculous. They can't even hide their true intentions.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Khaleg

[Khaleg]

I'd use the anology that the titanic passangers could see the iceburg an hour before it hit and were yelling at the captain and crew to change course. But the captain and crew ignored them and only tried to turn after the ship split in half and was sinking.

 

That nails it. The former team or whoever made the calls, the producer or maybe even EA are an utter failure and the epitome of unbelievable incompetence and ignorance. It's ok that Keith wnats to clean up this unique mess but it still happens WAY too slow after 2+ years of winter sleep...

Edited August 14, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

At least the LFG system could have been improved.

 

Yes please!

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Khaleg]

They aren't.

 

Yes, they are. It's the very defintion of an indicator actually, which means not telling the whole story but giving an idea.

[Ylliarus]

I'd use the anology that the titanic passangers could see the iceburg an hour before it hit and were yelling at the captain and crew to change course. But the captain and crew ignored them and only tried to turn after the ship split in half and was sinking.

 

Adding to this analogy: there were people aboard the ship that didn't believe the ship would sink even when the iceberg had already hit them and water was racing into the lower compartements slowly creeping upward, staying in their cabins and pretending it was all nonsense (subsequently drowning because the ship was sinking).

 

This addition to the analogy naturally applies to all the people stubbornly sticking to "we don't want server merges, we are happy where we are". Yeah those people staying in their cabins on the Titanic saying they were happy where they were while the ship was sinking didn't end up well, let me tell you!

 

I'd even perhaps compare those people saying they won't budge or move from their servers threatening to abandon the game would be as if suddenly people aboard the Titanic blocked the path to the lifeboats or even cut them off their lines, dumping them into the ocean before anyone got aboard them saying no one would need them on a sinking ship. We all want this game to be successful, we all want this game to continue forward, we all want this game to continue to exist, but if you stand in its way to the lifeboats then all of us will go down with the ship. By claiming "we are happy where we are, we won't budge" you're blocking progress to the game and having it become active and full of players again.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[IoNonSoEVero]

To clarify, there are no PvP-only servers anymore, right? Because when I was logging in earlier this evening, I accidentally selected - I want to say Jung Ma, but a server that was not mine - and it immediately gave me a popup saying something along the lines of, "this is a PvP server and you may be attacked by other players. Are you sure you wish to continue?"

 

If it's all PvP and PvE instances within the servers now, maybe that warning needs to be changed - it could be scaring people away from certain servers.

[Khaleg]

To clarify, there are no PvP-only servers anymore, right? Because when I was logging in earlier this evening, I accidentally selected - I want to say Jung Ma, but a server that was not mine - and it immediately gave me a popup saying something along the lines of, "this is a PvP server and you may be attacked by other players. Are you sure you wish to continue?"

 

If it's all PvP and PvE instances within the servers now, maybe that warning needs to be changed - it could be scaring people away from certain servers.

 

It's only one of a million construction sites Biowares ignorance, carelessness and incompetence has caused at least in the last two years.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Khaleg

[Ylliarus]

It's only one of a million construction sites Biowares ignorance, carelessness and incompetence has caused at least in the last two years.

 

Oi let's not be that negative like there have been some bumps along the road yeah and some mistakes made, but they also did a lot of good stuff for the game, let's not forget that! As it is very easy to forget the positive things the devs have done for SWTOR when there is so much negativity on the forums

Edited August 14, 2017 by Ylliarus

[Khaleg]

Oi let's not be that negative like there have been some bumps along the road yeah and some mistakes made, but they also did a lot of good stuff for the game, let's not forget that! As it is very easy to forget the positive things the devs have done for SWTOR when there is so much negativity on the forums

 

That does maybe apply regarding a few positive things that are going on since Keith has the responsibility but it definately doesn't apply to the former team/producer.

[Ylliarus]

That does maybe apply regarding a few positive things that are going on since Keith has the responsibility but it definately doesn't apply to the former team/producer.

 

Ah to that I may or may not agree, aye

[DWho]

To clarify, there are no PvP-only servers anymore, right? Because when I was logging in earlier this evening, I accidentally selected - I want to say Jung Ma, but a server that was not mine - and it immediately gave me a popup saying something along the lines of, "this is a PvP server and you may be attacked by other players. Are you sure you wish to continue?"

 

If it's all PvP and PvE instances within the servers now, maybe that warning needs to be changed - it could be scaring people away from certain servers.

 

If it is scaring people away from those servers it is probably good. The PVP servers are the ones that are truly dead as far as population. Anyone playing on those should have created a character somewhere else before playing there. On the other hand if it is encouraging PVP players to create characters there then it should be changed because there is no PVP activity going on anywhere (with a few very minor exceptions) on the old PVP servers.

[DWho]

Adding to this analogy: there were people aboard the ship that didn't believe the ship would sink even when the iceberg had already hit them and water was racing into the lower compartements slowly creeping upward, staying in their cabins and pretending it was all nonsense (subsequently drowning because the ship was sinking).

 

This addition to the analogy naturally applies to all the people stubbornly sticking to "we don't want server merges, we are happy where we are". Yeah those people staying in their cabins on the Titanic saying they were happy where they were while the ship was sinking didn't end up well, let me tell you!

 

I'd even perhaps compare those people saying they won't budge or move from their servers threatening to abandon the game would be as if suddenly people aboard the Titanic blocked the path to the lifeboats or even cut them off their lines, dumping them into the ocean before anyone got aboard them saying no one would need them on a sinking ship. We all want this game to be successful, we all want this game to continue forward, we all want this game to continue to exist, but if you stand in its way to the lifeboats then all of us will go down with the ship. By claiming "we are happy where we are, we won't budge" you're blocking progress to the game and having it become active and full of players again.

 

Server merges will not magically make the game active again or attract players back, only give the appearance of being full of players. They will at best slow the rate of loss slightly (though not enough to offset the cost of mergers - and closing a few servers will not make up that cost either considering how much needs to be done before mergers are even viable right now). New and better content is the only way to attract back the old players that have left and convince new players to give the game a try (closing the forums would probably also help increase the game population because reading the forums all you hear is how bad the game is doing - that drives away people before they even give the game a try - though every MMO has its "the game is dying" crowd). The group content people who have left are gone and won't be coming back.