Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ - Road Map 2017

[EzioMessi]

3) Don't base Any Combat Revisions based on Pvp. Pvp combat and PvE combat is usually as different as night and day.

 

I don't get what you mean by this? PvE and PvP are different... so... don't balance PvP at all?

 

Like I can understand asking for changes to be kept limited to PvP, such as messing with trauma, guard, changing DCD effect against players, etc, but why exactly should they not do combat revisions based on one half of the game? PvPers have had to bear PvE-based combat revisions too, what makes the other side of this so reprehensible?

 

@Keith: I was wondering if there are any plans to carry this improved communication over to the PvP side of the forums too. You chime in very often on General Discussion, talking to people about bugs, story, classes, giving teases for PvE content, strongholds, etc. But you haven't really chimed in with the PvPers at all, we've only been addressed in the roadmap, with no direct communication of the "Hi, we have been reading your complaints about the grind and we want to ask you what you think we should do to fix it" variety.

 

Do you plan to carry the communication over to that side of the game too, or is it only meant for non-PvPers? Because we've had far too many changes done to our side of the game with minimal input from us, and we'd like to have an avenue to discuss these changes with you too. The UC and class balance changes tell us you're at least reading the complaints, but it'd be nice for you to drop in and drop a "I see you!" or a discussion from time to time like you do for everyone in the GD forums.

Edited June 2, 2017 by EzioMessi

[casirabit]

EzioMessi;9321522]I don't get what you mean by this? PvE and PvP are different... so... don't balance PvP at all?

 

Like I can understand asking for changes to be kept limited to PvP, such as messing with trauma, guard, changing DCD effect against players, etc, but why exactly should they not do combat revisions based on one half of the game? PvPers have had to bear PvE-based combat revisions too, what makes the other side of this so reprehensible?

 

The problem is when they balanced the combat strictly by pvp they mess up the combat for those of us who do raids in pve. They need to look at the changes how it will affect pve as well. They have in the past, in regards to medic, have nerf a medic to the point they have trouble keeping someone alive in an operation. That is why some are saying don't just balance it around pvp. Check both to see how it functions in pve as well.

Edited June 2, 2017 by casirabit

[Master_Morak]

Design a game around casuals and you will have a casual game. I dont mind a casual game if you dont mind lowering sub fees to a casual level. I'm sure your bosses wont mind casual revenue if you dont mind casual paychecks.

 

Stop listening to casuals and f2p. it ruins the game for everyone

 

Stop listing Pro and Pseudopros - look at the majority of your subscribers.

 

Most of us playing this game because ist Star Wars and its a storybased game. May be some OPs and flashpoint are necessary but the main focus should be story, quests.

 

Give us a new open planet, include a method that the community can design areas, quests and questlines on our own. The free game "Netherwinter Nights" has a solution for this, look at it.

[EzioMessi]

The problem is when they balanced the combat strictly by pvp they mess up the combat for those of us who do raids in pve. They need to look at the changes how it will affect pve as well. They have in the past, in regards to medic, have nerf a medic to the point they have trouble keeping someone alive in an operation. That is why some are saying don't just balance it around pvp. Check both to see how it functions in pve as well.

 

Okay, I do agree with that point, it's just the person I was replying to said "don't base any combat revisions on PvP" which I took to mean, if PvP needs change and PvE doesn't, just don't do the change.

 

Maybe I took the wrong meaning out of it, who knows?

 

Obviously I am not saying they should just blindly make PvP changes and ignore how they affect PvE, we've been on the other side of that same stick too, we know it's painful.

[EzioMessi]

Stop listing Pro and Pseudopros - look at the majority of your subscribers.

 

Most of us playing this game because ist Star Wars and its a storybased game. May be some OPs and flashpoint are necessary but the main focus should be story, quests.

 

Give us a new open planet, include a method that the community can design areas, quests and questlines on our own. The free game "Netherwinter Nights" has a solution for this, look at it.

 

 

Dude, even the devs have clearly admitted that their single-minded focus on story these past two expansions was bad. If "most of us" playing this game could be satisfied purely through story, they'd continue doing so. The very fact that Bioware admits they have to change it, means that story players simply aren't enough to keep the game alive.

 

Good quality story content just can't be churned out fast enough to keep pure story players happy. They made that mistake at launch, and their subs dropped. They made that mistake with KotFE/ET and their subs dropped. No matter how much story content they release, it runs out and people quit.

 

The only sensible way to go about it is to tie story and group content a reasonable amount, making sure that story releases often enough (read: every few months) that the story players come back for more and that group content releases often enough (read: every few months) that you don't grind those players to dust over 2.5 years. This extreme "focus on just my thing and ignore everyone else!" attitude is going to get the game killed, and I am glad the devs are ignoring it.

Edited June 2, 2017 by EzioMessi

[AscendingSky]

Stop listing Pro and Pseudopros - look at the majority of your subscribers.

 

Most of us playing this game because ist Star Wars and its a storybased game. May be some OPs and flashpoint are necessary but the main focus should be story, quests.

 

Give us a new open planet, include a method that the community can design areas, quests and questlines on our own. The free game "Netherwinter Nights" has a solution for this, look at it.

 

Severely declining sub numbers over the past two years, where the entire focus of dev efforts was on putting out more "Keeping Up With the Valkorions" story, proves your statement completely wrong. You don't speak for "most" players... you only speak for a minority at best. The last thing this game needs is to keep focusing on story to the near exclusion of all else. That has been killing this game. TOR needs to start being a true MMO with story elements again, instead of a single-player RPG with a global chatroom.

Edited June 2, 2017 by AscendingSky

[EzioMessi]

Severely declining sub numbers over the past two years, where the entire focus of dev efforts was on putting out more "Keeping Up With the Valkorions" story, proves your statement completely wrong. You don't speak for "most" players... you only speak for a minority at best. The last thing this game needs is to keep focusing on story to the near exclusion of all else. That has been killing this game. TOR needs to start being a true MMO with story elements again, instead of a single-player RPG with a global chatroom.

 

The worst part is, this is the SECOND time they made this mistake. At launch they had an amazingly fleshed out set of 8 class stories, and some of them had several different endings and pathways, with romances, companions, followers and powerbases, varied villains and grey morality, plot twists, it was amazing.

 

And it failed to retain players for even a few months. Within a year subscription numbers had dropped to unsustainable levels and they had to release the Cartel Market.

 

Why were they expecting a single, shallow, story, with no real choice on any matter, monolithic villains, black and white morality, predictable betrayals and "twists", and cliches all around, to perform any better than the beauty they released at launch? Like, I liked KotFE and KotET, but only for ONE character, and it was still nowhere near as good as some of the original stories. If the originals didn't retain players, why would this fare any better?

 

Story alone can't sustain a game that needs constant updates. Story adds flavour to it, but the actual game must have depth without the story too, otherwise you may as well read a book or watch a movie and not pay $15 a month.

[casirabit]

Stop listing Pro and Pseudopros - look at the majority of your subscribers.

 

Most of us playing this game because ist Star Wars and its a storybased game. May be some OPs and flashpoint are necessary but the main focus should be story, quests.

 

Give us a new open planet, include a method that the community can design areas, quests and questlines on our own. The free game "Netherwinter Nights" has a solution for this, look at it.

 

Actually a lot of people play most of the content. I love the story but I will also do flashpoints and operations with my guild and friends. Most people do this and not focus on one aspect of the game.

[Andryah]

Actually a lot of people play most of the content. I love the story but I will also do flashpoints and operations with my guild and friends. Most people do this and not focus on one aspect of the game.

 

^^ Accurate assessment. The game serves a broad base of casual play really well in my view. It does not serve extremes well (ie: people who really only play for one segment of content, and this includes those that only play for class story).

 

Where this game gets a lot of hate is from raiders and PvPers.... and always has (most MMO do actually). This is simply not the best MMO if raiding is all you like to do, or PvP is all you like to do. If it's more about the IP.. they suck it up and work with it. If it's all about doing hardcore raiding or PvP.. I question why the IP matters at all, and why not seek an MMO more tuned for your play preferences.

 

We also have those that like to lament and gnash teeth about the studio not continuing the 8 class story arcs post launch. Adapt or move on... because after 5 years it should be clear that they will continue story arcs, but not class specific ones.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Andryah

[Master_Morak]

^^ Accurate assessment.

 

Where this game gets a lot of hate is from raiders and PvPers.... and always has (most MMO do actually). This is simply not the best MMO if raiding is all you like to do, or PvP is all you like to do. If it's more about the IP.. they suck it up and work with it. If it's all about doing hardcore raiding or PvP.. I question why the IP matters at all, and why not seek an MMO more tuned for your play preferences.

 

I agree - but I'm afraid they change there focus to only raids and flashpoints. Did they really believe that ten thousends of raiders will only wait thar they release OPs´?

 

The mistake of KOTFE/KOTET was, that is was more an interactive movie than a game. A story-based MMO needs something like the Revan story - a long lasting storyline with story quests mixed with daily and weekly quests, events and even flashpoints in different modes. If some parts of such an storyline should be individual class quests so its fun to make it with several chars.

[AscendingSky]

I agree - but I'm afraid they change there focus to only raids and flashpoints. Did they really believe that ten thousends of raiders will only wait thar they release OPs´?

 

The mistake of KOTFE/KOTET was, that is was more an interactive movie than a game. A story-based MMO needs something like the Revan story - a long lasting storyline with story quests mixed with daily and weekly quests, events and even flashpoints in different modes. If some parts of such an storyline should be individual class quests so its fun to make it with several chars.

 

The 3 month span of the current roadmap includes both a new dual ops boss, a new WZ, AND a story update with a flashpoint, along with a whole bunch of other stuff. That's a pretty far cry from changing their focus to only raids and flashpoints... Chicken Little, the sky is not actually falling.

[Ibokagain]

I don't get what you mean by this? PvE and PvP are different... so... don't balance PvP at all?

 

Like I can understand asking for changes to be kept limited to PvP, such as messing with trauma, guard, changing DCD effect against players, etc, but why exactly should they not do combat revisions based on one half of the game? PvPers have had to bear PvE-based combat revisions too, what makes the other side of this so reprehensible?

 

@Keith: I was wondering if there are any plans to carry this improved communication over to the PvP side of the forums too. You chime in very often on General Discussion, talking to people about bugs, story, classes, giving teases for PvE content, strongholds, etc. But you haven't really chimed in with the PvPers at all, we've only been addressed in the roadmap, with no direct communication of the "Hi, we have been reading your complaints about the grind and we want to ask you what you think we should do to fix it" variety.

 

Do you plan to carry the communication over to that side of the game too, or is it only meant for non-PvPers? Because we've had far too many changes done to our side of the game with minimal input from us, and we'd like to have an avenue to discuss these changes with you too. The UC and class balance changes tell us you're at least reading the complaints, but it'd be nice for you to drop in and drop a "I see you!" or a discussion from time to time like you do for everyone in the GD forums.

 

^This

 

Also thank you for the improved communication I hope you all can deliver on future "road maps" and that it isn't a one time thing. It's also good to see the dev team focusing back on the MMO part of this game and not just RPG story content.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ibokagain

[Spyderwoman]

Will we be able to continue the story if we have not done the operation? Some of us cant for variety of reason do Ops. And some just dont like group content or large group content. Will the flashpoint have option to be done solo? Will there be some planet side quests for story too? I dont want all group content shoved down my throat, some of us enjoy this game for story too. I do like to do flashpoints with guildies etc but i like to do content on my own too.

[DarthVoyevoda]

Please bring back Jaesa for my Sith Warrior main I feel so empty not having her around in story for my char:(

[Icykill_]

Stop listing Pro and Pseudopros - look at the majority of your subscribers.

 

Most of us playing this game because ist Star Wars and its a storybased game. May be some OPs and flashpoint are necessary but the main focus should be story, quests.

 

Give us a new open planet, include a method that the community can design areas, quests and questlines on our own. The free game "Netherwinter Nights" has a solution for this, look at it.

 

Sorry but you've got your facts wrong using the words "most of us" and "the main focus should be story".

[Sarova]

Here's something from another thread that would improve the game for hundreds, if not thousands:

Making the /ignore function work across an entire legacy, or even an entire account, would be a good first step to cutting off toxic *******s like this

I second AscendingSky's idea, especially ignoring accounts. Doesn't WoW's ignore function work like this? It's a year over since I played that but I remember their's worked really well.

[Icykill_]

The worst part is, this is the SECOND time they made this mistake. At launch they had an amazingly fleshed out set of 8 class stories, and some of them had several different endings and pathways, with romances, companions, followers and powerbases, varied villains and grey morality, plot twists, it was amazing.

 

And it failed to retain players for even a few months. Within a year subscription numbers had dropped to unsustainable levels and they had to release the Cartel Market.

 

Why were they expecting a single, shallow, story, with no real choice on any matter, monolithic villains, black and white morality, predictable betrayals and "twists", and cliches all around, to perform any better than the beauty they released at launch? Like, I liked KotFE and KotET, but only for ONE character, and it was still nowhere near as good as some of the original stories. If the originals didn't retain players, why would this fare any better?

 

Story alone can't sustain a game that needs constant updates. Story adds flavour to it, but the actual game must have depth without the story too, otherwise you may as well read a book or watch a movie and not pay $15 a month.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself... and you know what the real shame is?

Lots of the new people fly through those early story's and planet quests from the vanilla game because of accelerated speed events, planet syncing, dumbing down the game and making it too easy... you used to have to atleast do some or close to all of the planet quests to move onto the next world. Some of those stories were good.

I haven't been able to pvp at the times I play because it's died, so I decided to do a few early story and planet quests.. I started out to do them all on Tython, only to find out that there are a heap of missing side or planet quests now. When did they remove them and why did they remove them?

I was looking forward to the quest about the two Jedi who are having a love affair and you need to approach them about it.. but it's gone and so are a few others 😢

Now I'm wondering how many of the old quests I used to do have been removed.

Making all those changes has ruined some of the best parts of the game and new people are missing out on what the game should be.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Icykill_

[Icykill_]

Here's something from another thread that would improve the game for hundreds, if not thousands:

 

I second AscendingSky's idea, especially ignoring accounts. Doesn't WoW's ignore function work like this? It's a year over since I played that but I remember their's worked really well.

 

Agreed, I think lots of people have wanted this and it's been asked for since launch

[EzioMessi]

I was looking forward to the quest about the two Jedi who are having a love affair and you need to approach them about it.. but it's gone and so are a few others 😢

Now I'm wondering how many of the old quests I used to do have been removed.

Making all those changes has ruined some of the best parts of the game and new people are missing out on what the game should be.

 

So umm you might want to make sure you have "Show Exploration Missions" enabled on your map. Because my friend and I rolled Shadows together and were doing all the quests on Tython and we did that quest.

 

This was literally just last week, so I doubt they ninja-patched it out.

[DarthSpuds]

If "most of us" playing this game could be satisfied purely through story, they'd continue doing so. The very fact that Bioware admits they have to change it, means that story players simply aren't enough to keep the game alive..

 

Perhaps if they'd aimed for a passable story, even a decent story, heck even a good story it would be.

 

KotFE/ET/Iokath is none of those types of story.

 

All The Best

[Toraak]

Thats true and it will aleviate some of the problem with the grind on alts but still wouldn't compare to an adjusted crystal system we had and what that system should have turned into and carried into 5.0

 

GC and RNG just need to go and we need to get back to that old system of play any content on any toon and get crystals for what you do and buy the gear you need to fill the slots you have open on any toon.

 

The damage GC and RNG will never be really fixed but I'd wager quite a lot if the crystal system had stayed in place but allowed set item purchase and higher gear purchase (similar to GC) we would have never seen teh negativity GC and RNG brough on this game.

 

Adjustment of GC and CXP gains is nice I'm sure but still doesn't fix GC or RNG.

 

 

Nice for you. It has not worked out for me that way yet.

 

 

 

WHY? BIS is not tied to challenging content now in GC. Why would it need to be in the old crystal system?

 

The answer is it doesn't have to be.

It can be tied to anything. Any content and time as I find it better for gamers to be able to reach BIS gear because BIS gear doesn't mean they are good players. It just helps smooth out the rough edges for players that are not as good allowing them to get into more groups and see more. Maybe even allowing them to get better when mixed with people that actually are who can show them, instead of out-casting them.

 

There is no reason I can see BIS gear could not be in the old crystal system just like it is for GC. Neither are tied to challenging content. Both allow you to do any content for BIS gear because what the crystal system does GC and RNG does not is allow you to choose what you need to finish that gearing puzzle as well as makes it easier to gear alts. Allowing more players to see more content on different toons.

 

Like I said, much better than what GC and RNG could have ever brought to the game if only they had taken the crystal system and adjusted it instead. They could have saved themselves and SWTOR from a lot of negativity.

 

The problem is, the crystal system didn't work. All of the gear from the crystal system had terrible mods, and enhancements, so anyone actually purchasing gear from them was already at a Disadvantage from anyone that was getting tokens from the raids. The crystal gear had High Endurance mods, and enhancements, these gave out low Power, causing less DPS or HPS. This system was terrible for any raiders. I'm not saying the crates are perfect, however now everyone can get BiS gear, even if it is RNG based. Not to mention everyone can now use Unassembled components through GSF/PvP to get any piece they want, or upgrade any they already have.

[Icykill_]

So umm you might want to make sure you have "Show Exploration Missions" enabled on your map. Because my friend and I rolled Shadows together and were doing all the quests on Tython and we did that quest.

 

This was literally just last week, so I doubt they ninja-patched it out.

 

Both my wife and I did every available quest on Tython tonight and it wasn't there. We don't normally look at the map to find quests because we know where they should all be. You used to pick it up at the first bridge on the way to the village from the Jedi temple. If you did it, can you please tell me where you picked it up?

Also there used to be a quest you would pick up between the starting area and the temple. Another on the ground in the flesh raider area. Both of these aren't there anymore,

There is another "I think" is missing, but it might be warrior based and not available on Shadows. It was the one at the temple area outside, between the flight point and the temple, where you would talk to the training maintenance master and he would send you to the droids to battle them and then go back to him. you would do this a few times and it would get harder.

If those quests are still in the game, can you please tell me where to find them because trying to talk to those NPCs that used to have them doesn't work.

[vadess]

Both my wife and I did every available quest on Tython tonight and it wasn't there. We don't normally look at the map to find quests because we know where they should all be. You used to pick it up at the first bridge on the way to the village from the Jedi temple. If you did it, can you please tell me where you picked it up?

 

They did, Icykill:

 

So umm you might want to make sure you have "Show Exploration Missions" enabled on your map. Because my friend and I rolled Shadows together and were doing all the quests on Tython and we did that quest.

 

This was literally just last week, so I doubt they ninja-patched it out.

[EzioMessi]

Both my wife and I did every available quest on Tython tonight and it wasn't there. We don't normally look at the map to find quests because we know where they should all be. You used to pick it up at the first bridge on the way to the village from the Jedi temple. If you did it, can you please tell me where you picked it up?

Also there used to be a quest you would pick up between the starting area and the temple. Another on the ground in the flesh raider area. Both of these aren't there anymore,

There is another "I think" is missing, but it might be warrior based and not available on Shadows. It was the one at the temple area outside, between the flight point and the temple, where you would talk to the training maintenance master and he would send you to the droids to battle them and then go back to him. you would do this a few times and it would get harder.

If those quests are still in the game, can you please tell me where to find them because trying to talk to those NPCs that used to have them doesn't work.

 

I did pick it up from the first bridge. There are two master's there, one human, one a 3-eyed alien or something, and they give us the quest.

 

Same for the training droids quest, it is available between the Jedi Temple and the Jedi Temple speeder/medcenter.

 

If you have show exploration missions enabled and still can't find it, I don't know what else could be wrong. In either case, this thread is about the roadmap, so we'll leave it to that, but if you want any clarification on where I found the quests or on what option to click, you can PM me.

[Icykill_]

I did pick it up from the first bridge. There are two master's there, one human, one a 3-eyed alien or something, and they give us the quest.

 

Same for the training droids quest, it is available between the Jedi Temple and the Jedi Temple speeder/medcenter.

 

If you have show exploration missions enabled and still can't find it, I don't know what else could be wrong. In either case, this thread is about the roadmap, so we'll leave it to that, but if you want any clarification on where I found the quests or on what option to click, you can PM me.

 

Thanks for trying to help, I'll try it tomorrow. I didn't mean to say you were lying or anything. We did actually go to those guys and it wasn't there. So maybe it's not actually available unless you have the map option selected. If so, then its a pretty dumb idea because new players wouldn't even realise. Thanks again.