Update on Roadmap

[DarthSpuds]

We had skill vs skill pvp before 5.0... which part of that don't you understand?

 

So gear wasn't a factor?

Class wasn't a factor?

Build wasn't a factor?

 

Oh wait, yes they were, I was PvPing a lot pre 5.0, actually once got 6 MVP votes in 10 matches in one afternoon and had an Officer from a PvP Guild try and poach me from my PvE Guild, so I must have had some idea what I was doing. And what I was doing was playing - at the time - just about the best class to PvP with because it had no significant weaknesses at that time; I didn't play it because it was the go to class for PvP at the time, I played it because that was the toon I was playing and I needed to do some PvP for a KOTFE Unlock. I started to enjoy it, and carried on for a few weeks.

 

So no you didn't have Skill vs Skill PvP pre 5.0 - because no MMORPG has ever, even once, delivered Skill vs Skill PvP; because Gear, Class and Build are - together - far more significant factors that Skill.

 

All The Best

[DarthSpuds]

What kind of argument is this? So with your logic since we'll never have real peace on earth its fine if we just start nuking everyone? Yes, bolster to 244 won't be pure skill vs. skill but it will be a huge improvement over the train wreck we have now. I for one think there is a point to improving even if it won't be perfect.

 

Absolutely agree. If PvP can be improved it should be - even though I no longer PvP much at all.

 

But the claim that PvP was Skill vs Skill is what is being challenged - and destroyed.

 

Can PvP be made so that Skill is more of a factor than Class, Gear, Build? Sure it can, but we don't have that yet, and we've never had it in SWTOR.

 

All The Best

[DavidAtkinson]

What kind of argument is this? So with your logic since we'll never have real peace on earth its fine if we just start nuking everyone? Yes, bolster to 244 won't be pure skill vs. skill but it will be a huge improvement over the train wreck we have now. I for one think there is a point to improving even if it won't be perfect.

 

Bolster to 238 is fine as it is. You wouldn't want to give TIer 4 to anyone, right? I mean some of us grinded our butts off to get to tier 4 and full 248 and you want 244 bolster ? Hell no !

[Korenus]

I don't know why anyone is upset with roadmaps anyways. This is swtor. Roadmaps are jokes. Name one year that makes sense with the following year? THE JEDI AND SITH ARE CURRENTLY TEAMED UP TO FIGHT ROBOTS FFS ! You know those things we used to wave at and destroy. Turns out we didn't need to bring balance to the force. We never needed luke. We should be training c3p0. Real iconic Keith. Real *********** iconic.

 

Not to mention our gearing is random. Takes 3.5 years to make raid boss. A new arena map is called a new PvP. Takes 1-2 years for class balancing. Every year we need to replace comms with shards, shards with comms, comms with crystals. All to buy the same old tired set bonuses for the last 3 years. We traded out being a real MMO for chapters cause apparently books are no longer available. It's apparent every ounce of effort goes into the cartel market. And you guys are worried about the Roadmap?

 

Here's the roadmap guys. Bioware plans on continuing to ruin star wars and mmo's. There ya go.

 

As has been noted ad nasium in this post Keith had little to nothing to do with the current state of the game. He just barely got the job a month ago (or so) so cut the dude some slack while he tries his damnedest to put out the brush fire known as BioWare Austin

[Korenus]

The one thing that keeps popping into my head as I read this thread is Captain Hook from "Hook": "Me Me Me, Mine Mine Mine, NOW NOW NOW!"

[tummiswtor]

Gear doesn't matter in PvP. Bolster to 242 or 248, no difference. People care about dps competention, not objectives.

[Tarbuch]

I don't know why anyone is upset with roadmaps anyways. This is swtor. Roadmaps are jokes. Name one year that makes sense with the following year? THE JEDI AND SITH ARE CURRENTLY TEAMED UP TO FIGHT ROBOTS FFS ! You know those things we used to wave at and destroy. Turns out we didn't need to bring balance to the force. We never needed luke. We should be training c3p0. Real iconic Keith. Real *********** iconic.

 

Not to mention our gearing is random. Takes 3.5 years to make raid boss. A new arena map is called a new PvP. Takes 1-2 years for class balancing. Every year we need to replace comms with shards, shards with comms, comms with crystals. All to buy the same old tired set bonuses for the last 3 years. We traded out being a real MMO for chapters cause apparently books are no longer available. It's apparent every ounce of effort goes into the cartel market. And you guys are worried about the Roadmap?

 

Here's the roadmap guys. Bioware plans on continuing to ruin star wars and mmo's. There ya go.

 

Wow, that is pretty nihilistic view of the BWEA.

[DarthSpuds]

Wow, that is pretty nihilistic view of the BWEA.

 

Its is; but he makes some very, very valid points.

 

All The Best

[Savej]

5.x gave solo ranked one of its busiest seasons ever and it resurrected GSF.. Both of those are much more active than they were in 4.x. Mids and lowbies are useless now for endgame gear and they are barely played on most servers. Gear grinds matter. It's not -that- hard to get a decent set right now and the difference between "decent" and BIS really isn't much at all. Edited May 11, 2017 by Savej

[Frenesi]

As has been noted ad nasium in this post Keith had little to nothing to do with the current state of the game. He just barely got the job a month ago (or so) so cut the dude some slack while he tries his damnedest to put out the brush fire known as BioWare Austin

 

Sorry, he is too busy visiting his dad and failing at time evaluation.

[Darittha]

these new changes are pretty amazing, especially higher speeder speeds - about time too. BUT i have one more thing that hasnt changed since vanilla from what i know - number of ranks that can the guild have - 10 only is super low - especially with increased members from 500 up to 1000. at least 20-30 rank slots should be added

[Eli_Porter]

5.x gave solo ranked one of its busiest seasons ever and it resurrected GSF.. Both of those are much more active than they were in 4.x. Mids and lowbies are useless now for endgame gear and they are barely played on most servers. Gear grinds matter. It's not -that- hard to get a decent set right now and the difference between "decent" and BIS really isn't much at all.

 

I think the problem is that while decent and BiS aren't that different, the newbies aren't gonna be at "decent". they're gonna be with no augments and a bunch of un-optimized stats. Add their skill level to the mix and they're gonna get squashed.

 

There is a problem, but I agree just raising bolster up may not be the right answer. Making augments more accessible would be a nice alternative.

 

Sorry, he is too busy visiting his dad and failing at time evaluation.

 

Nice troll, here's your reply.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[fabsus]

5.x gave solo ranked one of its busiest seasons ever and it resurrected GSF.. Both of those are much more active than they were in 4.x. Mids and lowbies are useless now for endgame gear and they are barely played on most servers. Gear grinds matter. It's not -that- hard to get a decent set right now and the difference between "decent" and BIS really isn't much at all.

 

you are right, that there are more players in ranked and gsf,

also much more players in pvp.

 

im not a pro pvp player and im just a moderate gsf pilot.

the most gsf matches turn into gunship-bomber-only-matches,

boring as hell.

in regs the last weeks, there was -no- match i joined alone,

not being the top dps at all. in every match i did the same, or

more damage, then my complete team together.

even as a operative healer, i was top in hps and in the higher ranks

of dps. as an operative healer! this is not normal.

and also in ranked, you found a lot of players, just leaching for components

and cxp. beginning 2017 it was more because of the weekly reward with the

schematics.

 

and so i agree, that there are more player,

but i don't like to play with them, not able to

walk straight.

[Quraswren]

I don't know why anyone is upset with roadmaps anyways. This is swtor. Roadmaps are jokes. Name one year that makes sense with the following year? THE JEDI AND SITH ARE CURRENTLY TEAMED UP TO FIGHT ROBOTS FFS ! You know those things we used to wave at and destroy. Turns out we didn't need to bring balance to the force. We never needed luke. We should be training c3p0. Real iconic Keith. Real *********** iconic.

 

Not to mention our gearing is random. Takes 3.5 years to make raid boss. A new arena map is called a new PvP. Takes 1-2 years for class balancing. Every year we need to replace comms with shards, shards with comms, comms with crystals. All to buy the same old tired set bonuses for the last 3 years. We traded out being a real MMO for chapters cause apparently books are no longer available. It's apparent every ounce of effort goes into the cartel market. And you guys are worried about the Roadmap?

 

Here's the roadmap guys. Bioware plans on continuing to ruin star wars and mmo's. There ya go.

 

So true it hurts to read. ^

[Soljin]

I don't know why anyone is upset with roadmaps anyways. This is swtor. Roadmaps are jokes. Name one year that makes sense with the following year? THE JEDI AND SITH ARE CURRENTLY TEAMED UP TO FIGHT ROBOTS FFS ! You know those things we used to wave at and destroy. Turns out we didn't need to bring balance to the force. We never needed luke. We should be training c3p0. Real iconic Keith. Real *********** iconic.

 

Not to mention our gearing is random. Takes 3.5 years to make raid boss. A new arena map is called a new PvP. Takes 1-2 years for class balancing. Every year we need to replace comms with shards, shards with comms, comms with crystals. All to buy the same old tired set bonuses for the last 3 years. We traded out being a real MMO for chapters cause apparently books are no longer available. It's apparent every ounce of effort goes into the cartel market. And you guys are worried about the Roadmap?

 

Here's the roadmap guys. Bioware plans on continuing to ruin star wars and mmo's. There ya go.

 

I really hope the last portion is proven wrong in the near future...But this is a perfect summary of my feelings on the situation up to date...

 

If I were to do an "At a glance" summary of SWToRs design direction over the past few years this would be it...

[Frenesi]

I think the problem is that while decent and BiS aren't that different, the newbies aren't gonna be at "decent". they're gonna be with no augments and a bunch of un-optimized stats. Add their skill level to the mix and they're gonna get squashed.

 

There is a problem, but I agree just raising bolster up may not be the right answer. Making augments more accessible would be a nice alternative.

 

 

 

Nice troll, here's your reply.

 

Thank you kindly!

 

Seriously though. People keep praising Keith like he is second coming of Jesus. Particular comment I replied to stated he is "working hard in new position". Somehow I don't see him working. I don't see any results. All I see is rather pathetic excuse for why said results (not that big results, mind you) aren't here.

 

Because when you are "hard at work", you don't take time to visit your dad. Because you are hard at work. At the very least you distribute some of that "hard work" to other people while you are away for some very serious reason. Hint - that reason isn't "I spent time with my dad".

 

Furthermore, he admitted that he failed to estimate time required to finish not some major update, but *********** text document. You know how it's called? I'll help you. Incompetence. Producer unable to plan out time and deadlines for his crew or himself is incompetent producer. What an amazing feat to show in your first month of work.

 

Be objective here. All that guy did was make some forum posts. That's it. That's the only thing he did in his position so far. Sweet promises to calm people down. Well, that worked. Now what? Same old same old? "We are working on new exciting content!" Yeah, right. Never seen it before. Meanwhile, feel free to pay money for new unlocks.

 

"Oh, he is new, give him time!" He isn't new. He was part of the crew before, he knows people there and the way they work (and also was part of overall problem, but let's not destroy guy completely). Also he doesn't have time. Because it's *********** SWTOR, there's no more time. "People make mistakes!" Yes, and when those mistakes result in bad performance, people are being called out on it. Also, he doesn't have room for mistakes. Because Ben exhausted that credit looooong time ago.

 

All I'm saying, the guy did absolutely nothing so far. ****, he isn't even able to punch balancing team in the face to make them go back to work - THAT doesn't require anything but some basic organizational skills. All I'm seeing is same tired routine that got SWTOR into the pit it's sitting in now. I've been here long. I've seen it all. So far, this guy isn't different from previous ones. Actually, he is worse, because he has balls to try and make up excuses pressing on our "humanity" side. That's called manipulation, by the way. GJ on that front at least.

[Kurj]

I think the problem is that while decent and BiS aren't that different, the newbies aren't gonna be at "decent". they're gonna be with no augments and a bunch of un-optimized stats. Add their skill level to the mix and they're gonna get squashed.

 

There is a problem, but I agree just raising bolster up may not be the right answer. Making augments more accessible would be a nice alternative.

 

I agree. Since they lowered ranked rewards, what seems to be happening is that more and more ranked players are playing regs. Combine that with new players looking for UCs to gear up outside of OPs, and we are having some incredibly unbalanced matches. Mk-9 augments are pretty affordable on the GTN, so I don't think it's a question of availability - it's a question of knowledge. I think most of the newbies don't even know you can aug your gear, or understand how much difference it makes.

 

They should make the Tier 1 gear available for far less than 800 tokens. H*ll, they should give away a full set when you get to end-game content, like they used to do with PVP gear. (I admittedly can't think of when that should be now - class story completion, since you hit 70 by then anyways? KotET completion?) That, and send them an e-mail re augments and augmentation kits. It won't devalue the gear grind, since Tier 1 is useless now apart from set bonus items, and it will go a long way towards encouraging people to play end-game content.

[Soljin]

I agree. Since they lowered ranked rewards, what seems to be happening is that more and more ranked players are playing regs. Combine that with new players looking for UCs to gear up outside of OPs, and we are having some incredibly unbalanced matches. Mk-9 augments are pretty affordable on the GTN, so I don't think it's a question of availability - it's a question of knowledge. I think most of the newbies don't even know you can aug your gear, or understand how much difference it makes.

 

They should make the Tier 1 gear available for far less than 800 tokens. H*ll, they should give away a full set when you get to end-game content, like they used to do with PVP gear. (I admittedly can't think of when that should be now - class story completion, since you hit 70 by then anyways? KotET completion?) That, and send them an e-mail re augments and augmentation kits. It won't devalue the gear grind, since Tier 1 is useless now apart from set bonus items, and it will go a long way towards encouraging people to play end-game content.

 

I would take this even further... Rather than an Email populate an automatic quest at Max level 70 giving a detailed description of augments and kits and how to craft each while rewarding one MK-10 augment and kit when the quest is given.

 

To complete the quest you must apply the kit and place the augment....Now new players at max level know what is up with Augments...

 

Another annoyance with all of this... When you get a craft success that rewards an augment slot you should get a max level MK-10 augment slot...not MK-1 which is pretty much useless to everyone save day one players...

 

MK-10 slot useful to everyone leveling and max level...MK-1 useful to day one players that likely wont use it...WHY?

 

Anyways... Stuff like this just makes no sense and lends to the idea that crafting is being neglected heavily...in some games the crafting culture has its own player base...in this game it is just barely there.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Soljin

[Kurj]

I would take this even further... Rather than an Email populate an automatic quest at Max level 70 giving a detailed description of augments and kits and how to craft each while rewarding one MK-10 augment and kit when the quest is given.

 

To complete the quest you must apply the kit and place the augment....Now new players at max level know what is up with Augments...

 

Another annoyance with all of this... When you get a craft success that rewards an augment slot you should get a max level MK-10 augment slot...not MK-1 which is pretty much useless to everyone save day one players...

 

MK-10 slot useful to everyone leveling and max level...MK-1 useful to day one players that likely wont use it...WHY?

 

Anyways... Stuff like this just makes no sense and lends to the idea that crafting is being neglected heavily...in some games the crafting culture has its own player base...in this game it is just barely there.

 

That is a much better suggestion than an e-mail. They could even make that quest include a mission to get your Tier 1 gear, and then augment one of the pieces to get you going. Let's hope someone is reading this.

[TUXs]

I don't know why anyone is upset with roadmaps anyways. This is swtor. Roadmaps are jokes. Name one year that makes sense with the following year? THE JEDI AND SITH ARE CURRENTLY TEAMED UP TO FIGHT ROBOTS FFS ! You know those things we used to wave at and destroy. Turns out we didn't need to bring balance to the force. We never needed luke. We should be training c3p0. Real iconic Keith. Real *********** iconic.

 

Not to mention our gearing is random. Takes 3.5 years to make raid boss. A new arena map is called a new PvP. Takes 1-2 years for class balancing. Every year we need to replace comms with shards, shards with comms, comms with crystals. All to buy the same old tired set bonuses for the last 3 years. We traded out being a real MMO for chapters cause apparently books are no longer available. It's apparent every ounce of effort goes into the cartel market. And you guys are worried about the Roadmap?

 

Here's the roadmap guys. Bioware plans on continuing to ruin star wars and mmo's. There ya go.

I am in 100% agreement about the current story...but don't throw that on Keith. That's Ben's direction, not Keith's.

[casirabit]

Thank you kindly!

 

Seriously though. People keep praising Keith like he is second coming of Jesus. Particular comment I replied to stated he is "working hard in new position". Somehow I don't see him working. I don't see any results. All I see is rather pathetic excuse for why said results (not that big results, mind you) aren't here.

 

Because when you are "hard at work", you don't take time to visit your dad. Because you are hard at work. At the very least you distribute some of that "hard work" to other people while you are away for some very serious reason. Hint - that reason isn't "I spent time with my dad"..

 

So I guess you never take time off and work 365 days a year? Right. People take time off from work for vacations, personal holidays, etc. So jumping on a person for taking time off when you probably have time off is a bit childish isn't it?

[TUXs]

Because when you are "hard at work", you don't take time to visit your dad. Because you are hard at work. At the very least you distribute some of that "hard work" to other people while you are away for some very serious reason. Hint - that reason isn't "I spent time with my dad".

 

Furthermore, he admitted that he failed to estimate time required to finish not some major update, but *********** text document. You know how it's called? I'll help you. Incompetence.

Taking time off to spend it with family could not be better spent. What do YOU take off for? Things like Monster Truck events? Tractor pulls? Huntin season? If not for family, what else is nearly that important to you? I only take off a few days a year...I've had ONE week off in the past 5-years...but I take off a day here or a day there for family needs all the time. They are the most important thing in the world to me.

 

And yes...he admitted it is taking more time than he expected, he was HONEST about it. Sadly, Keith doesn't own this game, he needs approval from Electronic Arts as well as Lucas Arts...once he gets their approval for HIS roadmap, he needs to get approval for how he phrases it to us - a process that I expect can never be 'quick'.

 

You're blaming the wrong guy. I don't think Keith is the second coming of Christ, but I sure as hell think he's bound to be better than Ben was. This game has been heading the entirely wrong direction for the past 3-years...I'm more than willing to give Keith a chance.

[DarthSpuds]

You know, I'd never really bought into this "the reason the Devs don't talk to us is because collectively we are toxic" excuse for Bioware not talking to us.

 

But after the vitriol that has been slung Keith's way because he was honest enough to admit he took a few days off to spend time with his father I am starting to understand it.

 

I'd rather Keith and the rest of the Bioware team be as honest and open as they can be about things, than have them ignore us, or even worse lie to us to cover something up.

 

Keith had a few days off. The Roadmap is taking longer that we, and by the sounds of it Keith, would like. The two may not be all that linked - it sounds like Keith has to get a lot of things signed off by other people before he can deliver the Roadmap to us.

 

However, Keith was honest to us about his reasons for not being as far forward as he hoped.

 

And there are still some of you sniping at him for it? And even worse blaming him for the state the game got into under Ben Irving's direction?

 

What I'd like to see is Keith start a thread with some of the ideas they have for the game going forward, with the understanding that NONE of it is guaranteed in any way; and then open that thread up for constructive feedback on those idea. AND for that thread to be very heavily moderated, so that ONLY comments about the ideas presented are permitted.

 

We have a new Lead Producer. Let's take advantage of that to help foster a better "working relationship" between Bioware and us. But that means we need to let the past remain in the past, forget what has been done wrong badly; focus on what we can, collectively, get right going forward.

 

All The Best

Edited May 11, 2017 by DarthSpuds

[Frenesi]

I'm pretty sure you guys in America have holidays as well, so no, its not 365 days. Actually, it's 2 days per week specifically to be spent with friends and family.

 

And even if I have sudden need to spend time with family in the middle of the week, there are different moments. If I'm working on some project that I still have 3-4 weeks to finish - sure, I'll ask my boss and most likely he'll let me go. Even in that case, he will expect me to finish said work in time, and "well, I spent time with family" won't be an excuse if I **** up.

 

But, if I'm working on project that should have been finished yesterday, and there is client that screams at us 24/7 demanding it done - then I sure as hell won't be able to take vacation unless there are some really dire circumstances, like ambulance or something. Actually, I'll be asked to stay late at night, and most likely will keep working on holidays till I deliver the project. Because deadlines are a thing. Because worker's responsibility is a thing. Because that's what I'm being paid to do - getting **** done. Nobody cares if I had to feed my pet hamster or if we as a studio had a downtime because our render farms crashed again. Results matter. Not excuses.

 

I'll ask again - where are results, even those little ones we were promised?

[DarthDymond]

Can the people saying real life comes first explain why they are being so incredibly disrespectful about Keith's job as to claim its not a real job?

Have you never heard of the concept of "work / life balance"? The idea of distinguishing between one's "work" (their job or career) on one hand, and one's "life" (their family, leisure, spiritual pursuits, etc.) on the other hand isn't exactly a radical new idea. (If I were to throw an adjective on the "life" side of that dichotomy, I'd probably use "personal life" rather than "real life", but that's just semantics - in context, it's pretty clear that we're talking about the same thing.)

 

My job is real, it exists in the real world and in fact takes presidency over my leisure time, I don't get to blow it off because I'd rather be doing something more fun. I would be called in and asked to explain who I thought I was that could dictate when I turned up to work. So I find suggesting that Keith's job is any less important or real is disrespectful about what his commitments are and I would be interested to hear why people keep saying that real life should come first in relation to it.

When you talk about "blow[ing] off" work like that you make it sound like someone just randomly not showing up in the morning. There is such a thing as vacation time. I get two weeks a year that I can take off for whatever reason I please - wouldn't make any difference if I was using that time to take a trip abroad or just because I knew there's a show coming up on Netflix I knew I wanted to binge watch the day it comes out. Heck, come to think of it, I actually did use a few days in March to go and visit my dad (and I'll definitely be using a day or two in December to go see Last Jedi with him).

 

Sometimes someone's use of approved vacation time ends up impacting tentative deadlines. So I'm really not sure how you got from Keith saying that he took took a few days off of work while his dad was in town to the implication that he just played hooky on a whim.

Edited May 11, 2017 by DarthDymond