Spoilers.. WHO IS THE BETRAYER? want your opinions.

[OldVengeance]

If you go light side, Arcann does not die. Arcann and Senya (or Lana and Theron if you go DS) are able to enter your mind via Holocron. and if you decide to kill arcann, he is not absorbed by anyone as he was inferior. this is why i ask if you even played KOTET, you clearly have no idea how any of these events went down. so let me explain one more time for you- You strike down Vaylin, and she is absorbed by her father (who is trapped in your mind) you go and take the eternal throne. there Valkorion makes his move and tries and succeeds at taking your body. only reason you were saved was because you took over Valkorion's body (in your mind) the only way you get your body back is by finding the holocron that you find on Nathema. that is when the emperor summons Vaylin and then uses her programming to attack the outlander (you) as she was free for a moment and was going to attack her father. You strike her down and then Valkorion brings her back to life. but again using the holocron you break her free of her conditioning. IN the normal realm, Senya and Arcann (again if you went LS) sense that you are losing and enter your mind using the same holocron. (see no one died there) With all three, that being Arcann, Senya, and Vaylin, you are finally able to subdue and destroy Valkorion. so the only death here is the emperor himself.

 

Now Arcann and Senya just leave your mind as they no longer need to be there, and remain your loyal comps. Vaylin however has no body to return to at this time. and since we did not kill Vaylin either, there she remains as part of the outlander.

 

 

 

and as for force ghosts, Valkorion is not the only who has been considered alive after their physical body is destroyed. They live on as force ghosts, and we have seen this 104 times within canon and legends lore. although this is not a permant state, but in their own way they are very much alive. Free will, thoughts, emotions, able to use the force, they were the very essence of the Jedi/sith who's body gave out.

 

Did you play Kotet? You're the one who seems like they totally doesn't understand it. Arcann IS absorbed by Valkorion in exactly the same way Vaylin is if he is killed in Chapter 6. This is said explicitly in the dialogue. That is also the reason Valkorion can control them. It is not Vaylin's programming.

 

If Arcann and Senya die, they both still appear in the final battle, yet they are not trapped in the Outlander's mind. Therefore Vaylin shouldn't be either.

 

And no, Force Ghosts are not considered alive. Darth Marr talks as if he is no longer alive.

Edited June 10, 2017 by OldVengeance

[Ralei]

So, you guys think Vaylin is the betrayer? That's why you're arguing? I'd probably quit. But it also makes no sense.

[JamagsAwesome]

So, you guys think Vaylin is the betrayer? That's why you're arguing? I'd probably quit. But it also makes no sense.

 

Somebody said he hoped Vaylin was the traitor (even though that wouldn't be anything remotely resembling a betrayal), somebody else said she was dead, somebody else said she wasn't (I think I might've been one of the somebodies who started this - I honestly don't remember at this point), and now everybody's yelling at each other.

[OldVengeance]

Well, it is only from two pages ago.

[CrazyScruffy]

So, you guys think Vaylin is the betrayer? That's why you're arguing? I'd probably quit. But it also makes no sense.

 

no we don't believe Vaylin is the betrayer

[JamagsAwesome]

Correction, now that I have the time to go back and look:

I said she wasn't dead (which wasn't entirely accurate, and was the start of this irrelevant tangent, so I accept full blame), somebody else said she was, and now everybody's yelling at each other.

[_Kezza_]

After playing through it twice I do have a few ideas of who it might be and assuming that the traitor is female my two bets are either Lana or Kaliyo.

 

I don't see Lana betraying us given her past and who she is to us. The only thing the holds weight in her betrayal is that she has access to classified information. HOWEVER having her as the traitor would give the most impact and the biggest twist.

 

Kaliyo however, while she wont have the biggest impact or having it as the biggest twist she is the most likely female character to betray you she has motive (In the chapter introducing you she said she would come after you if you didn't bring the eternal empire crashing down, which you didn't you either ruled it or just let it rule itself with alliance support). Furthermore she is that type of person to betray people and she would have the skills to hack into the computer and get the files to leak.

 

In the end we are all assuming that who we saw was the traitor themselves maybe they have people at their command and that person we saw was just some random.

[JamagsAwesome]

After playing through it twice I do have a few ideas of who it might be and assuming that the traitor is female my two bets are either Lana or Kaliyo.

 

I don't see Lana betraying us given her past and who she is to us. The only thing the holds weight in her betrayal is that she has access to classified information. HOWEVER having her as the traitor would give the most impact and the biggest twist.

 

Kaliyo however, while she wont have the biggest impact or having it as the biggest twist she is the most likely female character to betray you she has motive (In the chapter introducing you she said she would come after you if you didn't bring the eternal empire crashing down, which you didn't you either ruled it or just let it rule itself with alliance support). Furthermore she is that type of person to betray people and she would have the skills to hack into the computer and get the files to leak.

 

In the end we are all assuming that who we saw was the traitor themselves maybe they have people at their command and that person we saw was just some random.

 

Just one issue: Kaliyo might be dead. Doesn't rule out that she's involved, but they can't make the plot hinge on someone who could be dead.

[Bonzenaattori]

It's Revan

 

 

... Revan or Kephess

Edited June 11, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

[Estelindis]

Just one issue: Kaliyo might be dead. Doesn't rule out that she's involved, but they can't make the plot hinge on someone who could be dead.

Agreed - it's not Kaliyo.

 

Personally, I don't see it being Lana or Theron either. At a meta level, I think the writers will always keep them around so *some* people can feature in plot and cutscenes even if everyone else is dead. However, if we ignore the meta, I think it wouldn't make sense to write them as betrayers either.

 

The main character has the option to treat Lana and Theron very differently from first meeting until Iokath. With the occasional exception of forced dialogue, you can be a complete jerk to them if you so choose - but you also have the option of being lovely to them. And I never got any indication that the game was recording how often you were nice or mean. They both respond to individual nice or mean things in the moment when they're said, but I've never seen any reference in later conversations to how you treated them earlier. I also don't think that whether you side with the Republic or Empire on Iokath is going to be enough to determine it. Both of them fairly clearly side with the Alliance over their old factions (honestly to the point where I find it a bit nuts, but still, that's how they've been written). So if it turned out to be either of them, it would be very inconsistent writing.

[JamagsAwesome]

Right now, I think we may as well assume it's not the Scions. First of all, that wouldn't be a betrayal. Second of all, it's the obvious (and stupid) choice, so there's not much point in debating it.

 

So, let's go over the Outlander's inner circle: Of those who are definitely still alive and definitely part of the alliance, we have Theron, Lana, T7, Gault, Hylo Visz, Dr. Ogurrobb, Admiral Laygo-my-Aygo, and Sana-Rae. The fact that they used a female placeholder model is a fair bit of evidence, so I've bolded all of the female suspects' names. There's also Satele Shan, the remaining faction leader, and the Virm- I mean, Odessen survivor.

 

Theron: Inconsistent with prior personality, at least as far as light side Outlanders go. He does have those implants, which are a little fishy, but that's kind of a flimsy idea to go on. And I think we all know Bioware isn't going to turn one of their babies evil.

 

Lana: Basically the same deal as Theron, but slightly more plausible, since she's got connections to Sith Intelligence, which could mean Darth Jadus' involvement. The fact that she namedropped Jadus out of nowhere is highly suspect, so she's definitely someone to watch (especially since with the Emperor out of the way, Jadus is currently the most powerful threat still outstanding). And keep in mind that the traitor may have been forced to act, rather than doing so out of malicious intent, so inconsistent character motivation might not be as important as we all think it is (i.e. Lana might not have wanted to betray the outlander, but her hand could have been forced, perhaps by a need to thwart the next up-and-coming Expansion Villain somehow).

 

T7-01: I mean, it's obviously T7, but let's say for the sake of argument that it isn't.

 

Gault: Motive is missing, and he's not exactly going to make a very good villain.

 

Advisers: You need them to unlock your rewards for Heroic Missions. It's not impossible, but I don't see one of them being the traitor because it would mess with gameplay.

 

Satele Shan: Probably the strongest candidate other than that shifty astromech (I'm onto you, droid!). She's clearly off her rocker, has motives we don't know about, and has been enough of an ally through SoR and stuff that she could be sorta shoehorned into the "close to you" thing.

 

Denizens of Schrodinger Land: Probably not one of these, because there would have to be separate storylines and motivations depending on who's alive, and it would be kind of contrived if no matter who you choose, they betray you.

[Bonzenaattori]

What's the plausibility that it's a member of the Scions of Fate?

 

I mean... so far they've done jack.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Bonzenaattori

[JamagsAwesome]

What's the plausibility that it's a member of the Scions of Fate?

 

I mean... so far they've done jack.

 

Well, that depends. Are we applying story logic or meta logic? Under story logic, they're not all that close to the Outlander, the only one we actually know (Heskal) is dead, and the traitor was implied to be one person.

 

Under meta logic, they're a nice pre-existing force whose betrayal would be utterly meaningless to the player, so if BioWare's going the sloppy route (i.e. they thought a traitor arc would be cool but didn't want to actually turn any of your allies against you), they'd make an ideal choice.

 

A couple candidates I missed in my earlier post: Dorne and Quinn. I haven't done the Imp side story on Iokath yet, but on Pub side, they make a point of saying that Quinn survives. That means that both of these two are very much active. Now, this would still have to be a Schrodinger scenario, because unless you're a Trooper or Warrior who switches sides, the opposite faction's officer trying to attack you would not be a betrayal in the slightest. Still, it could be used as an excuse to make the traitor your faction leader - Acina does it herself and Malcom sends Elara, hence the female body type 2 thing.

[OldVengeance]

Elara is always alive. Quinn is only sometimes alive.

[JamagsAwesome]

Elara is always alive. Quinn is only sometimes alive.

 

Oh, right, I forgot that Warriors can kill him.

[juliushorst]

they described Valkorion alive even though his physical body had been destroyed. and we very much never considered him dead. that is the way of the force

 

Valkorion's body is dead but Vitiate's body is probably still alive (and for all we know he was very protective ot it). We've seen him jumping to other bodies do one of them dying is not a big deal or reason to believe he really died this time.

Once his spirit is destroyed \ defeated we can assume he's gone for good.

[OldVengeance]

I'm pretty sure we're done with the Vitiate character now. He was just retconed into a weaker version of himself and then destroyed when he tried to posses the the Outlander. Edited June 18, 2017 by OldVengeance

[Vaneya]

Obviously... it's Thexan.

 

[bluehufsa]

1. Koth

2. Guss Tuno, manipulated by his master

3. Jreely, working as a spy for the "scary sith lady ( i presume that's Lord Krovos)

[Eshvara]

I'd really like it to be Theron or Lana so we can stray away from them. They've been around far too long!

[IoNonSoEVero]

I would really, really hope it's not Lana or Theron, especially in light of the romance options. Perhaps if it is them, they have been mentally hijacked and are being controlled - so they aren't deliberately betraying you. It could also be that they're framed - whoever the real culprit is, they're trying to get the Alliance to implode by getting you to distrust your closest allies/ friends/lovers.

 

it would also be cool if BW really did the work and writing and made it a different traitor for every class - a former companion or NPC. For the Sith Warrior Jaesa would definitely work there - if she's DS she's a psychopath; if she's LS she might have been driven mad or be angry because she feels abandoned or something.

[Eshvara]

I wonder if Darth Marr could be the betrayer. While he wasn't "officially" with the alliance, he was supportive of you and your cause along with Satele.

He kind of disappeared randomly and was never spoken of again. I'm not quite sure what his motives could be, but then I'm not a writer so.

I know he's a force ghost but that shouldn't stop anyone from rampaging around.

[Keta]

1. It's the night janitor at the Odessan base. He's peeved that he joined the alliance and never even got considered for swing shift janitor and that all the "Outlander" ever does is say "hi" to him.

 

OR

 

2. There is no Betrayer. It's a result of years of carbonite imprisonment, carbonite poisoning, constant battle extending well before the alliance and it's little battle with the "Eternal Empire." The outlander has become genuinely paranoid, quite delusional and is bordering on psychosis. Lana and Theron have been covering for the Outlander for years now, but have finally realized the truth. Eventually (in update 8.0) the Outlander will be committed to a mental institution and allowed live out their fantasies within the confine of 4 padded walls.

[Ralei]

 

2. There is no Betrayer. It's a result of years of carbonite imprisonment, carbonite poisoning, constant battle extending well before the alliance and it's little battle with the "Eternal Empire." The outlander has become genuinely paranoid, quite delusional and is bordering on psychosis. Lana and Theron have been covering for the Outlander for years now, but have finally realized the truth. Eventually (in update 8.0) the Outlander will be committed to a mental institution and allowed live out their fantasies within the confine of 4 padded walls.

 

ahaha that's kind of interesting. Was Valkorion ever really in your head?

[AwkwardGinger]

Whoever it is, they are guided by Calphayus. Or maybe it IS Calphayus.

For the portion of the story which is considered cannon and upon which all other story decisions are based, Bioware uses the JK story. In the end of the Jedi Knight story on Oricon, Calphayus is the only surviving dread master,

 

Packs have always been based on the story content in some form or another since the launch of 4.0, and perhaps before. (I wasn't playing in 3.0). The Dread Masters are not only a recurring theme in almost every raid, but they are among BW's most finely crafted characters, from when you meet them on Belsavis to when you defeat them on Oricon.

 

Last we saw, Calphayus was under the care of the Republic and the Jedi Order. In the chaos of Zakuul's invasions, wouldn't it have been easy for him to escape? Without his mask he could have easily infiltrated the Alliance, and with his visions of the future could have manipulated both the Empire and the Republic to Iokath.

 

It was Calphayus's visions which lead the Dread Madters to attempt to spread terror and fear throughout the galaxy. But wouldn't Arcann's invasion qualify as spreading fear and terror to all the main worlds of the republic and Empire? Seeing this, Calphayus realizes his visions have come true and escapes to complete the work that the Dread Masters set out to complete.

 

And my last point is that Bioware loves re-using old villains.

 

These are my theories. I don't care if you agree or disagree with them. Just throwing them out there.