Spoilers.. WHO IS THE BETRAYER? want your opinions.

[krakadyla]

And my money's on Theron. He's been looking shiftier everytime we see him.

 

And camera really loved to linger ominously on him looking shifty in Iokath. Anyway, I like the idea, since it would be way more dramatic and important than traitor being some random Joe nobody cares about, but - Bioware's MO decrees that any possible plans for this particular SW timeline must include Revan's descendant and Theron didn't spawn anyone so far, so I'd say he's safe. For now. *

 

*Unless Bioware pulls a "Bah, that idiot was a pretender, real Revan is not even male" and then descendant's not a Shan, but an Onasi.

[AshlaBoga]

And camera really loved to linger ominously on him looking shifty in Iokath. Anyway, I like the idea, since it would be way more dramatic and important than traitor being some random Joe nobody cares about, but - Bioware's MO decrees that any possible plans for this particular SW timeline must include Revan's descendant and Theron didn't spawn anyone so far, so I'd say he's safe. For now. *

 

*Unless Bioware pulls a "Bah, that idiot was a pretender, real Revan is not even male" and then descendant's not a Shan, but an Onasi.

 

Except making Theron the traitor and having him as the mastermind of the next expansion would force the SW to include a Revan descendant front and center.

[dcaleb]

Shifty enough to change his sex back and forth while betraying us? Unless there is more than one betrayer, the betrayer is totally a woman. Besides, Theron likes everything I do why would he betray me (aside from shock-value bad writing)?

 

Its already been mentioned that the thing we saw is just a generic placeholder Bioware put in so dataminers won't spoil the reveal.

[Nefla]

Its already been mentioned that the thing we saw is just a generic placeholder Bioware put in so dataminers won't spoil the reveal.

 

The race and face model which you can't actually see sure. I really doubt they'd have a clearly female model stand in for a male character. The had a placeholder face model for Darth Marr but it was the same gender and body type as his robed version. If they literally wanted us to know nothing and if the gender and body type were ambiguous then we wouldn't see a model at all. We'd see the evidence of their tampering, maybe their shadow on the wall or something but not them standing there. I mean really, think of if they revealed the traitor as being Len from Koth's crew (male BT3) that "placeholder" is clearly not him and can't stand in for him. You see it in the game itself, not just buried in a file somewhere.

[dcaleb]

The race and face model which you can't actually see sure. I really doubt they'd have a clearly female model stand in for a male character. The had a placeholder face model for Darth Marr but it was the same gender and body type as his robed version. If they literally wanted us to know nothing and if the gender and body type were ambiguous then we wouldn't see a model at all. We'd see the evidence of their tampering, maybe their shadow on the wall or something but not them standing there. I mean really, think of if they revealed the traitor as being Len from Koth's crew (male BT3) that "placeholder" is clearly not him and can't stand in for him. You see it in the game itself, not just buried in a file somewhere.

 

 

I would definitely not put it past them to do that, though. Just say 'ha, that wasn't even the real betrayer just some goon they had pretend to be them to throw you off' and they are good to go with with BT3 male betrayer Len.

[Nefla]

I would definitely not put it past them to do that, though. Just say 'ha, that wasn't even the real betrayer just some goon they had pretend to be them to throw you off' and they are good to go with with BT3 male betrayer Len.

True but that would be even more stupid than a random scion being the betrayer.

[krakadyla]

Except making Theron the traitor and having him as the mastermind of the next expansion would force the SW to include a Revan descendant front and center.

 

Took another character through Iokath's introductory cutscene. He's shiftier and camera's more "Look at him looking so guilty and suspicious!" than I remember. Hoo boy. Even if he's not the mastermind, he is totally involved in some conspiracy of sorts.

[SuzMK]

I haven't finished Iokath yet... Is Senya ruled out as a possibility for the betrayer?

[Erudain]

Yeah since Senya could be dead if you killed Arcann.

 

I also see a lot of Satele, how is Satele going behind the back of any DS or former Empire character a betrayal?...there has to be trust/agreement before for it to be a betrayal.

Any of the 4 specialist?....yeah, maybe a minor annoyance, but again no "impact" for a huge betrayal.

That also rules out class specific enemies and companions, how is Jadus betraying a Trooper? how is Risha/Jaesa betraying a Knight?

[OldVengeance]

Satele could maybe be interpreted as being a traitor for Imperials because she and Darth Marr helped the Outlander train and create a new lightsaber on Oddessen.

 

It might be harder to justify for characters that tried to kill Satele, but maybe because she spoke to you as if she was still on your side after Valkorion's defeat?

[RinjiRenee]

My money's on the Scions. Aside from the "mysterious figure" wearing scion robes, the Scions do say they are allied with you at some point because DESTINY. I think you receive a mail from them after taking the throne in KOTET? Heskal also tells you before he dies that the rest of the Scions would appear for you when it was their time to die. People talk about Theron's supposed shifty looks during Iokath -- have you done the cut scene with Oramis, before the Tyth fight? She and the other Scions are basically shifty the entire time.

 

Theron as the traitor would make sense if the game forces you to make evil choices, but thus far in my LS playthrough he's been nothing but supportive and willing to help out the Alliance. Lana being the traitor in my LS playthroughs would make more sense, because I've basically destroyed her idea for a better Empire in the future. But since this betrayal seems to have taken place AFTER KOTET, it makes little sense that either Lana or Theron would be the traitor because there's nothing in KOTFE/KOTET to support their reasons for betrayal. If either of them turned out to be the traitor, I feel like it would just be for shock value rather than common sense. In fact, the idea that if you accuse either of them and the other quickly jumps to their defense and offers their own name up would seem to point to them not being the traitor -- or at least, not a willing one.

 

The reason why Theron probably doesn't want to monitor everyone is because the fact that you could risk creating more friction with your own allies this way (and perhaps create more traitors in the long run). Beywan is absolutely furious about being monitored, for example. They still continue to interrogate the inner circle and other Alliance personnel (Lana and Theron also submit themselves first for interrogation). It just may not be entirely good to tell your Alliance that you don't trust any of them, especially after all they've given up to help the Alliance. This is probably why it's a dark side choice, of course.

 

Also, if Lana and Theron were guilty, why would they be sending you updates on how they're narrowing the suspects down? Why would a traitor bring any attention to themselves by narrowing down the number of suspects? Again, if either of them turn out to be a traitor, it'd just be for shock value rather than anything that makes sense.

 

Tyth says the traitor is marked by anger, hope eroding, etc. The Scions were nearly wiped out because of Arcann, and if you go back to Chapter 6 in KOTFE, Heskal is practically seething about how the Scions have been treated because of Arcann. He also says right before he dies that our character will take the throne, and that lots of people will die, and that the future is "glorious" or whatever. This also sounds a lot like what Empress Acina says when she dies, after being shown a glimpse of the gods and the superweapon. These Gods seem to enthrall their followers in ways.

 

The Scions knew about Iokath already, because Valkorion took them there in the past. It would make sense that they'd have access to the intel that was sent to all the factions. They just needed you on the throne so they could wake them all up (because the prophecy deemed it necessary), and then they would have the fleets of the factions to complete their vision of the gods destroying everything.

 

It is also entirely possible, I suppose, that the Scions have also lured a traitor closer to you and have gotten their cooperation. I do like the Satele Shan theory -- it's canon that she's wandered from the light side. She sounded completely despondent when she talked about failing the Republic and the Jedi Order, so that fits the anger, hope eroding bit. We also know that force users in her blood line are notorious for being misguided and tricked, and causing galaxy-wide slaughter...

Edited May 3, 2017 by RinjiRenee

[JediToadstool]

It is also entirely possible, I suppose, that the Scions have also lured a traitor closer to you and have gotten their cooperation. I do like the Satele Shan theory -- it's canon that she's wandered from the light side. She sounded completely despondent when she talked about failing the Republic and the Jedi Order, so that fits the anger, hope eroding bit. We also know that force users in her blood line are notorious for being misguided and tricked, and causing galaxy-wide slaughter...

 

This is the theory to which I am currently subscribing. Satele is clearly misguided, despondent, and (at a bare minimum) no longer following the light side or its tenets. She is also Theron's mother, and given the fact that his father is there (with the possibility of you killing him), it screams "family-based storyline." Star Wars loves its family-based storylines and always has.

 

Having her ensorcelled by some Scions showing her their visions, perhaps even aided by Sana-Rae, with some kind of purification/ascension/order brainwashing makes it real. Depending on your relationship with Theron and his opinions on your choices, it could even force a greater betrayal once she's been revealed: he can side with her if he doesn't like the way you've been running things. Conversely, he could side with you and that'd also be some substantial emotional bread for the writers to sink their teeth into.

 

And this works for non-Republic, non-LS characters, too. You'll have one of your "right hand" advisors and spies betray you to stand with his mother. Republic and/or LS characters...well, obviously it's her.

 

JUST MY THOUGHTS!!!

[darthscotty]

The only way it makes any sense for it to be a Scion is if the Scions secretly recruited somebody else close to you to do the betrayal. If the traitor is just Scion #3 from the left that is not a betrayal or somebody close to me, they would have had to have recruited somebody to do the betrayal. The only one that comes to mind that would make any sense would be that Voss Mystic you have. She would be somebody that would buy into the Scions train of thought and could be really angry based off of what happened to Voss.

[PowerJediRanger]

I'm starting to wonder if it is the Scions and they manipulated someone to betray you so that their visions will come true just like the former Scion leader brought Arcann to that place you were hiding out at and gotten many people killed. Wouldn't put it past them since all I can think about them is that they want things to go their way and no other way.

[SithKoriandr]

Yeah since Senya could be dead if you killed Arcann.

 

I also see a lot of Satele, how is Satele going behind the back of any DS or former Empire character a betrayal?...there has to be trust/agreement before for it to be a betrayal.

Any of the 4 specialist?....yeah, maybe a minor annoyance, but again no "impact" for a huge betrayal.

That also rules out class specific enemies and companions, how is Jadus betraying a Trooper? how is Risha/Jaesa betraying a Knight?

 

The specialists may not be a huge betrayal to the player, it however, could be considered a big one for the character. Those specialist are supposed to be pretty close, even if the writing team didn't make them close enough for a players liking.

[Aresnar]

I think we should look outside the usual suspects:

 

Has anyone given thought to out missing companions?

 

I know Kira, Jaesa, Scourge, the Torguta with a long name etc are all still missing and the devs did say they wanted to bring them back using the story.

 

Bringing them back as 'Traitors' for what ever reason that we have to kill or save somehow would suffice I think.

[OldVengeance]

It's pretty hard to see how they would be a traitor if they are still missing, or why they would want to betray you if they are your old companions.

 

I think the fact that this story has a lot of elements of a "one size fits all" story for Jedi is another thing that suggests it could be Satele.

Edited May 22, 2017 by OldVengeance

[AdharaKyleth]

Darth Trayus!

Just kidding, its probably Theron or Lana. Although since the next chapter is a while to come, maybe they will splurge on making it a different companion for each class. You know, the one that hasn't come back yet. Like Kira for Jedi Knight, Jaesa for Sith Warrior, Vector for Imperial agent....

[Nefla]

It's pretty hard to see how they would be a traitor if they are still missing, or why they would want to betray you if they are your old companions.

 

I think the fact that this story has a lot of elements of a "one size fits all" story for Jedi is another thing that suggests it could be Satele.

 

Not to mention that if it was an old companion that betrayed you, it would only be a betrayal for that class. I mean imagine you're sitting there playing your sith warrior and the traitor comes out all dramatically like "It is I, Felix Iresso who has betrayed you!" Most non-Jedi Consular, non-alt addicts would be like "uh who?"

[Krimlord]

Theory: Theron guided by Satele if you joined the Empire, Lana led by Jadus(he got mentioned as a suspect)*if you joined the Republic. It just occurred to me. People keep thinking one or the other but it may be one led by another, and it changing depending on your choices is why they had you pick a faction. Just no one has thought of this yet...

 

This was my thinking:

*theron looks over shifty camera randomly pans on theron*

*theron's dad is involved and his mother was mentioned wow the forshadowing!*

 

But then there's how Satele and Jadus both got mentioned as Suspects. Theron only fits for his mother, Lana if she betrayed only fits with Jadus as she mentioned him totally out of nowhere when he's been gone for years so what's the point. Valkorion mentions one of them will betray you for their factions.*Hmmm.

 

Also. The figure is just to throw you off. That was scion sent to get you out of the trap you were already in since you were already about to be sacrificed until the figure's device went off and ironically woke you up. Helping you.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Krimlord

[Nefla]

Man I bet we're all overthinking it and giving BioWare too much credit and it really will be just a random nameless scion who betrays us :/

[Xilizhra]

Theory: Theron guided by Satele if you joined the Empire, Lana led by Jadus(he got mentioned as a suspect)*if you joined the Republic. It just occurred to me. People keep thinking one or the other but it may be one led by another, and it changing depending on your choices is why they had you pick a faction. Just no one has thought of this yet...

 

This was my thinking:

*theron looks over shifty camera randomly pans on theron*

*theron's dad is involved and his mother was mentioned wow the forshadowing!*

 

But then there's how Satele and Jadus both got mentioned as Suspects. Theron only fits for his mother, Lana if she betrayed only fits with Jadus as she mentioned him totally out of nowhere when he's been gone for years so what's the point. Valkorion mentions one of them will betray you for their factions.*Hmmm.

 

Also. The figure is just to throw you off. That was scion sent to get you out of the trap you were already in since you were already about to be sacrificed until the figure's device went off and ironically woke you up. Helping you.

The betrayal took place before the decision to side with the Republic or Empire was made; that can't be the deciding factor.

[darthscotty]

The betrayal took place before the decision to side with the Republic or Empire was made; that can't be the deciding factor.

 

True but the story is written in such a way that your choice could be the deciding factor in which one you get. Everything is vague so bioware could easily make your choice on which faction to support the deciding factor. Very likely though it is something you already did prior to this. Durring double xp I took several toons through the story and at the end of chapter 9 valkorian mentions a traitor is working against you. So it has to be somebody we meet in the first 9 chapters. I suspect it will be something like if you made lightside choices the traitor is lana if you made darkside choices the traitor is theron. Story wise it could be explained that they supported you to take down a bigger threat in Arcan but with him defeated you are now the bigger threat and you have to be dealt with.

[Xilizhra]

True but the story is written in such a way that your choice could be the deciding factor in which one you get. Everything is vague so bioware could easily make your choice on which faction to support the deciding factor. Very likely though it is something you already did prior to this. Durring double xp I took several toons through the story and at the end of chapter 9 valkorian mentions a traitor is working against you. So it has to be somebody we meet in the first 9 chapters. I suspect it will be something like if you made lightside choices the traitor is lana if you made darkside choices the traitor is theron. Story wise it could be explained that they supported you to take down a bigger threat in Arcan but with him defeated you are now the bigger threat and you have to be dealt with.

9 chapters of KotET or KotFE? Because in KotFE's case, the traitor there is SCORPIO.

[Krimlord]

The betrayal took place before the decision to side with the Republic or Empire was made; that can't be the deciding factor.

 

This whole time we've been taken out of the republic or empire sides in order to just be the Outlander. A potential ally or enemy of both simultaneously. It's strnage that they'd suddenly make you choose to join a faction: empire or republic, which no choice out of it. They're using it to set up a better reason for either Theron or Lana to betray you.

 

Yes. They've starting working against you as a potential threat earlier on, but this will merely decide for the game which one it will be deciding two enemies you'll face and by contrast, two allies you'll have. This will pretty much tip them off to having to act now and take you out as an active threat once you've officially joined either side.

 

You'll be allied with satele and theron if you joined the republic and have jadus and lana is your enemy with the whole mirrored "same thing happens to either one" type deal again like they just did earlier, making you join either Acina as an ally or enemy, or Malcon as an ally or enemy. It's the same formula again.