Keith - As the new producer........

[Alec_Fortescue]

I hope Keith will be more co operative and talkative about the issue of lack of traditional Jedi robes in the game.

[t-darko]

Gonna say this again; Anyone playing and treating this game as just another MMO, should try to play just another MMO instead! It was never the intention of this game to be as another MMO. IF you started this game way back when and RUSHED to top level then you missed the whole point of this game. There that's said.

 

This game lost it's bering back with SOR, frankly 1 story fits all was an insult to anyone who ever got this game for what it was intended to be. RotH was an example of what the bare minimum of this game can be to be enjoyable.

 

But raids, but pvp, but group content, but, but but . . . The level of anxiety the initial haters, who never played this game as intended got EA and the Original Devteam to choke on is the guys to blame for where this game is today. The game never recovered from that, since autumn 2012 there's been one panic decision after another, every patch and expac have been made in a frantic quickfix mode. And it's quite clear that there's been no recovery over the years. EAware doesn't listen has been a mantra kicked both sideways and up and down on these forums. I say that EAware have been listening to much, been wanting to please to hard, that's why we're at the point we're at today. We got half measures of everything ever done Since RoTH, no clear direction, no clear intention.

 

But KotFE was the return of Story!!! No, 5.0 and beyond have been made in that same fashion, but to an more expensive suit, and it was a long shot, had it been a true intention those 2 expac should've been at least a two faction feature story wise. Sure we did get a couple of cool CGI movies but that's it. Star Wars were lost on the way, and it's time to bring Star Wars back into this game.

[Jagaimee]

I hope Keith will be more co operative and talkative about the issue of lack of traditional Jedi robes in the game.

 

Oh, for the love of... Dude, you've been harping on that for years now. You got the Exiled Master's robes. You got Relnex's robes. You got Kreia's robes, even - those are all pretty "traditional." And I'm sure I'm missing one or two... But no, there are just LEEEEEEEEEETLE flaws in them that you have to point out and whine about it not being "perfect." At one time, I would have supported you - now I just think your "fight" is rather pathetic.

 

Gonna say this again; Anyone playing and treating this game as just another MMO, should try to play just another MMO instead! It was never the intention of this game to be as another MMO. IF you started this game way back when and RUSHED to top level then you missed the whole point of this game. There that's said.

 

I wasn't here at launch, but I heard that's what happened. And it still happens today. Level cap is raised to 70, five new Uprisings are launched to be played at level 70...within two days people are whining about the "lack of content." Oi vey. Five MORE Uprisings were produced. Two days later - "Welp I'm bored now, guess I'll unsub, byeee! ...oh yeah I spacebarred through that thing you call 'story,' anyone want to get me up to date on that?" *facepalm*

 

On another note, I agree that they need to focus on more than one aspect of the game. I'm primarily a story player, and I loved the last two expansions - but that doesn't mean I could care less about the rest of the game. There are a lot of people here who love flashpoints (we're getting a new one in 5.3! UMBARA!! AAAAHHHH!! ), who love Operations, who love warzones - so yes, please do refocus on adding more of that content!!

I started playing right before Shadow of Revan came out, so I wasn't here for the "glory days"...but judging from what some of you have said about them, I'd love it if SWTOR went that direction again. A small bit of story (hopefully differentiated between classes, or at least factions), Operation(s), warzone(s), flashpoint(s), all in one expansion? That would be wonderful. I hope it can happen.

[mmmbuddah]

It was mostly a flop because of a very Toxic Burning Crusade ethos that pretty much told everyone who wasn't a end game Raider "We don't want you" They realized their mistake way too late.

 

I also think Cater is the wrong word it dose nothing but bring divisiveness on all sides. I would like to see Bioware adopt a L.E.A.N/Agile development philosophy and a content roadmap for all parts of the game. Iv'e seen developers do this with great success and mostly happy players. I want Raiders and PVP players to have plenty to do, I want Story Players to have plenty to do, I don't ever want to see one gated by the other because it's splits the community.

 

Both style players can live in harmony in game.

 

Pretty much exactly what I want as well. It just bothers me that BW cant do expansions with a little bit for everyone.

[mmmbuddah]

Oh, for the love of... Dude, you've been harping on that for years now. You got the Exiled Master's robes. You got Relnex's robes. You got Kreia's robes, even - those are all pretty "traditional." And I'm sure I'm missing one or two... But no, there are just LEEEEEEEEEETLE flaws in them that you have to point out and whine about it not being "perfect." At one time, I would have supported you - now I just think your "fight" is rather pathetic.

 

 

 

I wasn't here at launch, but I heard that's what happened. And it still happens today. Level cap is raised to 70, five new Uprisings are launched to be played at level 70...within two days people are whining about the "lack of content." Oi vey. Five MORE Uprisings were produced. Two days later - "Welp I'm bored now, guess I'll unsub, byeee! ...oh yeah I spacebarred through that thing you call 'story,' anyone want to get me up to date on that?" *facepalm*

 

On another note, I agree that they need to focus on more than one aspect of the game. I'm primarily a story player, and I loved the last two expansions - but that doesn't mean I could care less about the rest of the game. There are a lot of people here who love flashpoints (we're getting a new one in 5.3! UMBARA!! AAAAHHHH!! ), who love Operations, who love warzones - so yes, please do refocus on adding more of that content!!

I started playing right before Shadow of Revan came out, so I wasn't here for the "glory days"...but judging from what some of you have said about them, I'd love it if SWTOR went that direction again. A small bit of story (hopefully differentiated between classes, or at least factions), Operation(s), warzone(s), flashpoint(s), all in one expansion? That would be wonderful. I hope it can happen.

 

Uprisings are just awful. Some are so overtuned its ridiculous, and others are so undertuned its just silly. And they were clearly thrown together without any real thought. They are nice, but they are so short and so hastily thrown together they are pretty crap. And what, we dont get any content in TWO years and we are supposed to be happy with uprisings? Those things are awful, no story to them, no conversations, no dialogue. Imagine if story players got 5 chapters of Kotfe OVER TWO years, and we said " be happy with what you have and stop whining " yeah, I am sure that would go over well.

Edited April 15, 2017 by mmmbuddah

[RobertFKennedyUS]

@ Keith I would say merging servers isn't the answer, get people into the game! that's the real answer, stop turning this game into a its a "Oh No this game is Dead" to a wholly crap SWTOR is making a comeback! thanks

 

You misrepresent me. I didn't say it is the answer, I said it is something that needs to be done. Regardless of whatever you think about this game being dead or alive, the East Coast division of Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands is hurting the game. Both servers lack population and need each other to make it a live server. Also the other 3 dead servers should be merged into the live ones as well.

[Tsillah]

You misrepresent me. I didn't say it is the answer, I said it is something that needs to be done. Regardless of whatever you think about this game being dead or alive, the East Coast division of Jedi Covenant and Shadowlands is hurting the game. Both servers lack population and need each other to make it a live server. Also the other 3 dead servers should be merged into the live ones as well.

 

 

 

He doesn't want server merges, but rather a focus on bringing more people in. You do want server merges, so clearly there is a point of discussion here. Saying that he misrepresented you is going too far in my opinion. You seem to be focusing on the word "the", as if you were offering it as the complete solution. He was indicating that it was no solution at all. So let's step away from the semantics here if you can.

 

You feel server merges are needed. He thinks server merges are a bad idea. Focus on that.

 

So to make this discussion useful, please explain why you see server merges as a good idea, even if it's just one step.

[Savej]

He doesn't want server merges, but rather a focus on bringing more people in. You do want server merges, so clearly there is a point of discussion here. Saying that he misrepresented you is going too far in my opinion. You seem to be focusing on the word "the", as if you were offering it as the complete solution. He was indicating that it was no solution at all. So let's step away from the semantics here if you can.

 

You feel server merges are needed. He thinks server merges are a bad idea. Focus on that.

 

So to make this discussion useful, please explain why you see server merges as a good idea, even if it's just one step.

 

Honestly - advertising the game and getting people to come is sabotaged by having mostly dead or dying servers. Before you are going to get a wave of potential new players (from a movie or an expac) it is absolutely the smart thing to do to merge them first. You can always re-open closed servers later if the active ones get too busy. But I've never heard of an aging MMO getting -that- many new players. 4.0 was this game's big chance to buck that trend (new SW movie franchise startup + money from EA + ppl from another failed BW startup available to contribute) and part of the reason they blew it was because half the servers even then were hurting badly going into the xpac. A game with a bustling community and busy traffic makes players think something is happening, something is going on - there's something to work towards seeing.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Savej

[RobertFKennedyUS]

He doesn't want server merges, but rather a focus on bringing more people in. You do want server merges, so clearly there is a point of discussion here. Saying that he misrepresented you is going too far in my opinion. You seem to be focusing on the word "the", as if you were offering it as the complete solution. He was indicating that it was no solution at all. So let's step away from the semantics here if you can.

 

You feel server merges are needed. He thinks server merges are a bad idea. Focus on that.

 

So to make this discussion useful, please explain why you see server merges as a good idea, even if it's just one step.

 

Regardless of whether you speculate that he is opposing server merges or changing the focus off of them, he does either by setting up a false choice: get people into the game or merge servers. One can do both, and in so far as I want to do both his comment misrepresents mine. Even if he did say focus on content, I would still disagree as it's still by and large a false choice. One can develop content and merge dead servers into lives ones and the two East Coast PVE focused servers together.

 

No substantive point of discussion was raised with regards to server transfers in his post, nor was his opinion on the issue fully delineated. Only the false choice was posited: this game is dead; do server merges vs grow your way out of the problem and no server merge. You did focus on semantics in your reply, so hopefully you can be consistent and grasp what's been said.

 

TLDR for others: you can develop content and merge servers simultaneously, to do otherwise only hurts the game.

Edited April 15, 2017 by RobertFKennedyUS

[Tsillah]

Regardless of whether you speculate that he is opposing server merges or changing the focus off of them, he does either by setting up a false choice: get people into the game or merge servers. One can do both, and in so far as I want to do both his comment misrepresents mine. Even if he did say focus on content, I would still disagree as it's still by and large a false choice. One can develop content and merge dead servers into lives ones and the two East Coast PVE focused servers together.

 

No substantive point of discussion was raised with regards to server transfers in his post, merely the false choice of this game is dead do server merges vs his grow your way out of the problem and no server merge. You did focus on semantics in your reply, so hopefully you can be consistent and grasp what's been said.

 

Listen, I get the semantics and I wanted to take time to address it properly, which I guess I now regret.

 

Point is, you haven't offered anything of substance to explain your opinion on merges and I am inviting you to do so.

 

So... do you have something substantive to say? If so, I'm interested.

Or...do you just want to fence with this guy about what he meant? Keep on fencing but then I'll leave you to it.

 

Either of the two is fine, I just wanna know which it is so I can either be interested or move on.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Tsillah

[mmmbuddah]

Honestly - advertising the game and getting people to come is sabotaged by having mostly dead or dying servers. Before you are going to get a wave of potential new players (from a movie or an expac) it is absolutely the smart thing to do to merge them first. You can always re-open closed servers later if the active ones get too busy. But I've never heard of an aging MMO getting -that- many new players. 4.0 was this game's big chance to buck that trend (new SW movie franchise startup + money from EA + ppl from another failed BW startup available to contribute) and part of the reason they blew it was because half the servers even then were hurting badly going into the xpac. A game with a bustling community and busy traffic makes players think something is happening, something is going on - there's something to work towards seeing.

 

I agree. I remember trying out AOC way back when and the servers were deader than dead. That put me off really quick. Servers should be merged, and then we can work from there.

[Tsillah]

Honestly - advertising the game and getting people to come is sabotaged by having mostly dead or dying servers. Before you are going to get a wave of potential new players (from a movie or an expac) it is absolutely the smart thing to do to merge them first. You can always re-open closed servers later if the active ones get too busy. But I've never heard of an aging MMO getting -that- many new players. 4.0 was this game's big chance to buck that trend (new SW movie franchise startup + money from EA + ppl from another failed BW startup available to contribute) and part of the reason they blew it was because half the servers even then were hurting badly going into the xpac. A game with a bustling community and busy traffic makes players think something is happening, something is going on - there's something to work towards seeing.

 

Thank you for actually explaining.

 

I would like to ask a few questions in follow up if I may:

 

1) How do you feel about people who've posted here in the past who prefer playing on a low pop server? Would you be willing to sacrifice them for "the greater good"?

 

2) Will just a couple of servers also not look bad for new players?

 

3) Do you think that server merges will really have enough of an effect by themselves or is more needed to actually create a positive effect for the overall growth of the population? If more is needed, what would that be?

 

4) You say that opening a closed server is easy, but is that actually true? How will you motivate people to go to a newly reopened server? Will people actually want to go to a server that starts with no population?

[Scarletlux]

Welcome Keith and good luck to you. You will need it here!!!!!

[Edyn]

Uprisings are just awful. Some are so overtuned its ridiculous, and others are so undertuned its just silly. And they were clearly thrown together without any real thought. They are nice, but they are so short and so hastily thrown together they are pretty crap. And what, we dont get any content in TWO years and we are supposed to be happy with uprisings? Those things are awful, no story to them, no conversations, no dialogue. Imagine if story players got 5 chapters of Kotfe OVER TWO years, and we said " be happy with what you have and stop whining " yeah, I am sure that would go over well.

 

Spot on. My issues with Uprisings are that they are boring, unimaginative and all the little gimmicks make me feel like I'm either playing a low budget FPS or a WildStar/GW2 wannabe knockoff rather than SWTOR. The only times I do them are when the husb wants to complete them for Conquest objectives. I might have a different opinion of Uprisings if Flashpoints hadn't set the bar so high in regards to small group content/instances/dungeons.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Edyn

[Savej]

Thank you for actually explaining.

 

I would like to ask a few questions in follow up if I may:

 

1) How do you feel about people who've posted here in the past who prefer playing on a low pop server? Would you be willing to sacrifice them for "the greater good"?

 

2) Will just a couple of servers also not look bad for new players?

 

3) Do you think that server merges will really have enough of an effect by themselves or is more needed to actually create a positive effect for the overall growth of the population? If more is needed, what would that be?

 

4) You say that opening a closed server is easy, but is that actually true? How will you motivate people to go to a newly reopened server? Will people actually want to go to a server that starts with no population?

 

I am happy to answer your questions, Tsillah:

1) I don't think most of the "I like small servers" people will leave and they definitely don't represent a remotely large portion of the player base here. Or else the dead servers wouldn't be so dead, right?

2) No. Lots of MMOs have few but large servers or x-server and some games don't even give you much of a choice as to with server you go on. It doesn't matter how many servers there are and the number of servers doesn't impact ppl's gameplay at all. Dead servers is a deal breaker for many people.

3) Server merges stopped the exodus of players from this game cold back in the first year of the game. It doesn't "bring many players back" but it absolutely does help with retention. If BW hadn't waited at that time to do their merges I'm fairly sure we'd have a healthier game now. If BW had merged (or offered x-server) before 4.0 I can almost gaurantee we'd have a healthier game now.

4) Opening a server that you just closed is easy. How long did it take swtor to open up new servers when the game went live? They had new servers up in days.

5) You better get that purple thing on your toe looked at.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Savej

[americanaussie]

Honestly - advertising the game and getting people to come is sabotaged by having mostly dead or dying servers. Before you are going to get a wave of potential new players (from a movie or an expac) it is absolutely the smart thing to do to merge them first. You can always re-open closed servers later if the active ones get too busy. But I've never heard of an aging MMO getting -that- many new players. 4.0 was this game's big chance to buck that trend (new SW movie franchise startup + money from EA + ppl from another failed BW startup available to contribute) and part of the reason they blew it was because half the servers even then were hurting badly going into the xpac. A game with a bustling community and busy traffic makes players think something is happening, something is going on - there's something to work towards seeing.

 

I know people who logged in, found their names were used after the merger, so they said screw that and logged back out. One of my real life friends who got me into the beta did this. We've had a merger. It wasn't a pleasant experience. It really wasn't. And if you're on the merged server don't assume that your name is safe. They'll take the oldest toon and they'll keep their name.

 

Personally I think harbinger is unstable at times and could not handle a major merger.

[Savej]

I know people who logged in, found their names were used after the merger, so they said screw that and logged back out. One of my real life friends who got me into the beta did this. We've had a merger. It wasn't a pleasant experience. It really wasn't. And if you're on the merged server don't assume that your name is safe. They'll take the oldest toon and they'll keep their name.

 

Personally I think harbinger is unstable at times and could not handle a major merger.

 

So what? I know people that had names they liked to play but stopped playing entirely because their server was dead and transferring meant they would lose their names. In a perfect world we'd have x-server but BW won't do that, so...

Edited April 15, 2017 by Savej

[Edyn]

While server merges are understandable at common points after launch, such as the point in time after release when the hype has died down, but at this point in the game I would pay double-month's subscription to see more players around having fun with old and new content rather than BW merging servers because they can't figure out how to attract and retain new/returning players. My brother was one of those returning players and a few weeks ago he quit, and not because of lack of population, but because the game posed absolutely no challenge for him. He quit before even making it off the starter planet when his character was in its 20's and he complained to me over lunch one day that he felt like he was playing SWTOR in godmode and just got bored and quit.

 

I'm not sure how my brain keeps conjuring this idea, but I wonder if the people who decide the fate of SWTOR are just derping around and just making bad decisions or if they're intentionally trying to tank the game for whatever reason (SWTOR may get revenue, but doesn't turn a profit, a new SW MMO is planned, and so on.)

Edited April 16, 2017 by Edyn

[Tsillah]

I am happy to answer your questions, Tsillah:

1) I don't think most of the "I like small servers" people will leave and they definitely don't represent a remotely large portion of the player base here. Or else the dead servers wouldn't be so dead, right?

Ok but that's basically a yes then. I have no idea how many people are like that either and I am also sure it's not a majority by far, but whether they will stay or not I am not prepared to judge for them. There is a chance that some will leave and not knowing how precarious the trickle of new players is, I am not sure if the balance is right, but your view is clear and that's cool, but just because you expect they won't leave doesn't make it so. Of course no matter what decision is made, some people will not be happy with it so I also have no judgment on this view.

2) No. Lots of MMOs have few but large servers or x-server and some games don't even give you much of a choice as to with server you go on. It doesn't matter how many servers there are and the number of servers doesn't impact ppl's gameplay at all. Dead servers is a deal breaker for many people.

Forgive me if I am not entirely convinced when you use words like "lots" or "many" but I also have no exact numbers so I can prove nor disprove anything either. I know that when I see an MMO with just a couple of servers it gives me pause because I would not want to start a game that looks to be on its last legs, hence my question.

3) Server merges stopped the exodus of players from this game cold back in the first year of the game. It doesn't "bring many players back" but it absolutely does help with retention. If BW hadn't waited at that time to do their merges I'm fairly sure we'd have a healthier game now. If BW had merged (or offered x-server) before 4.0 I can almost gaurantee we'd have a healthier game now.

I actually do not agree with this as an argument for this. Yes in the first year server merges were sorely needed and it did HELP stem the tide....however, there are consideralbe differences between then and now.

As far as then, it was also F2P and the CM and the churning out of new content (be it rather late) that were part of a total approach of panic reactions that finally stemmed the tide. It wasn't just the server merges.

 

Also at the time we had like 200 servers or something so there was room to play with and the amount of people who left in that first year were more people than are playing it today. Now we don't have a lot of servers left and from my point of view it's starting to look pretty pathetic for an MMO with the SW name on it. But as you explained above you have another view on that which is fair enough. I'm also not ready to say SWTOR is dying but I do see 5.0 as a pivotal moment that did a lot of damage to the remaining population. I really hope for Keith he will be able to turn something around here but I'm not holding my breath.

Your guarantee about 4.0 with server merges I am not convinced of. It does indicate that you see server merges as a real solution but I do not believe that it is the only major issue this game had in the last couple of years and therefore it is my opinion that server merges alone would not have sufficed.

4) Opening a server that you just closed is easy. How long did it take swtor to open up new servers when the game went live? They had new servers up in days.

You missed my point. Technically it would be easy yes, but as I indicated it may not have the desired effect as the game doesn't have the momentum of player influx that a new game would have. That's why I'm not convinced that it would actually be a wise approach. I did not mean the technical side of, but people actually going to a server that's effectively empty.

 

I will say that in thinking about it, it's probably a moot point, because I doubt that SWTOR will be able to generate enough momentum again to do warrant reopening servers. This is probably the very reason why they have not closed any servers recently.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Tsillah

[HuaRya]

Honestly - advertising the game and getting people to come is sabotaged by having mostly dead or dying servers. Before you are going to get a wave of potential new players (from a movie or an expac) it is absolutely the smart thing to do to merge them first.

 

Agreed. There is a new thread every week about someone returning to the game and wondering what server is best to play on. Games like Wildstar and STO realized too late the need to bring the most active players together. Fortunately most people who want to do end game content have taking it upon themselves to move their main toons over to Harbinger. Most people will probably log into their old toon on POT5,Jung Ma, Bastion, Shadowlands, or JC look around see it is dead and not take the time out to go to the forums and research where to move to. It's a whole extra step that maybe only 1 in 5 would do.

 

Keith needs to realize that the most important thing for the game is to bring together all the active players as much as possible. It would be more prudent to spend money on updating the servers than it would be to do a 20 second Blur animation for 7 million dollars.

[Tsillah]

Agreed. There is a new thread every week about someone returning to the game and wondering what server is best to play on.

That's not a problem as long as people get an answer to that question though. So what if they ask? They ask it, they get the answer and they go play there. That scenario is not problematic. It's when people don't ask and find themselves on a server with little group interaction that this may be problematic.

Keith needs to realize that the most important thing for the game is to bring together all the active players as much as possible. It would be more prudent to spend money on updating the servers than it would be to do a 20 second Blur animation for 7 million dollars.

I dunno if that will solve the problems for SWTOR. This game seems to have a lot of solo players. Even TRE which is the biggest EU server doesn't have queues popping quickly for everything either. Quicker than other servers but it's still not doing that well because of other issues. It's the biggest server on the EU but it also has been losing players, so clearly population by itself is not the answer.

[americanaussie]

So what? I know people that had names they liked to play but stopped playing entirely because their server was dead and transferring meant they would lose their names. In a perfect world we'd have x-server but BW won't do that, so...

 

Our guild has had a recent influx of returning players from the bastion. They logged on to the ghost town then transferred over. Do you know what those 5 people I've personally spoken to said? They were happy that transfers were so cheap. I think people are more intelligent then you give them credit for. They found us on harb and asked for a guild on fleet. They weren't together either. We all had a great discussion about the bastion.

[MandelynRain]

Server merges should be an absolute last resort, especially with the problems that seem to come from transferring between servers in this game. I have seen the argument of 'dead" servers from both sides on most of the servers, people complaining that their server is dead and then others from that same server saying they are mistaken and that the server is far from dead. I think the only people that truly know would be Bioware as they have the numbers for the servers so know the population. There could be many reasons the server seems dead to one person and not another that has nothing to do with the actual numbers. I personally hope they put those on the back burner and try to attract new players first and fix things to retain and maybe draw in new players. I am not sure they will be able to but let them try first because I for one get irritated by not being able to log into a game I PAY for because the server is full. And I am very attached to my characters names as I have used most of them since EQ.

 

That being said congrats on your new position Keith and I hope you can turn things around and breath new life into the game.

[americanaussie]

Server merges should be an absolute last resort, especially with the problems that seem to come from transferring between servers in this game. I have seen the argument of 'dead" servers from both sides on most of the servers, people complaining that their server is dead and then others from that same server saying they are mistaken and that the server is far from dead. I think the only people that truly know would be Bioware as they have the numbers for the servers so know the population. There could be many reasons the server seems dead to one person and not another that has nothing to do with the actual numbers. I personally hope they put those on the back burner and try to attract new players first and fix things to retain and maybe draw in new players. I am not sure they will be able to but let them try first because I for one get irritated by not being able to log into a game I PAY for because the server is full. And I am very attached to my characters names as I have used most of them since EQ.

 

That being said congrats on your new position Keith and I hope you can turn things around and breath new life into the game.

 

Ah yes. Someone else remembering those days in queue. Our friend would call us and tell us the queue time (somewhere between 45 min and 1.5 hrs) so we would set the game to log in then go fix dinner while we waited for our turn into the game. Then we'd excitedly yell out when we got in and hope the rest of our group got in soon after so we could party up. Facebook memories has been showing me old posts like that.

 

Our conquest name on harb is forever broken now displaying weird names after the guild name.

[JediRelentless]

I think people are more intelligent then you give them credit for.

 

Really?