SWTOR is less than a month old, wow is 7 years old. Why do people compare?

[olelegend]

Game is quite good if you like an unworkable UI and mobs that sit behind broken trees and don't move. Game is soooo broken/ not ready.

[peroxsigh]

Game is quite good if you like an unworkable UI and mobs that sit behind broken trees and don't move. Game is soooo broken/ not ready.

 

Blizzard didn't have a workable UI until the modding community came in full effect. Most of blizzards "innovations" aren't even blizzards - they were MODS first that blizz then added in the game as 'their own' in future content patches.

[mastorofpuppetz]

Game is quite good if you like an unworkable UI and mobs that sit behind broken trees and don't move. Game is soooo broken/ not ready.

 

LMAO at people who make the game sound totally broken and exaggerate like chicken littles, get real.

[Ghaiana]

Does anyone even remember that WoW had no quest tracker at release? Now that was sometimes really a pain. That is some addition to the game that really made the game more playable, as for dungeon finders, look here...people are still divided.

[TheHauntingBard]

Bioware made some obvious mistakes and refused to learn from other MMO's.

WOW is a popular game how ever Blizzard made a lot of mistakes.

 

Just some things that have nothing to do with WOW at all.

 

Bioware released a game

 

- With a horrible UI that can't be modified.

 

- No Anti aliasing or High res textures

 

- Memory leaks

 

- Broken PVE bosses/loot

 

- Tons of minor bugs like Sith corruption/getting stuck

 

- Tons of crashes

 

- No combat log

 

- No macro's while stating they will add them so basically in six years they could not add a macro system.

 

- No options like mouse over healing/ putting auto camera off.

 

- Delay on instant casts which is game breaking.

 

 

 

Now some things Bioware could have learned from WOW

 

 

- Add on community made wow popular, controlling this community is needed.

 

- If you can't deliver a proper UI let the modding community do it ,less work and happy costumers.

 

- What a hot key based MMO needs (actually you can learn this from EQ).

 

- That wasting recourses on a in game voice chat is pointless

 

- How proper phasing should be done

 

- Mini games aren't appreciated when you don't fix glaring issues .

 

- Poor raid design will cost you subs.

 

- That costumers cares about looks, think of epic gear or character looks.

Blizzard uses ugly models and people don't like it

 

- Good technical support is important think of DX 11/ smooth FPS and such

 

- Mac support gives you a small group of loyal costumers.

 

- People like vanity stuff, like a barber/pets/achievements.

 

- Raiding keeps a MMO alive.

 

- Which Battle grounds are popular , hint Strand of the ancients is disliked.

 

- How to make combat smooth

 

- Maintenance during the EU down time is appreciated, taking servers down during peak time isn't.

 

- How to design creative quests

 

- How to design creative PVE encounters

 

 

Now you can't change all of these things mid development but some of these things are a given still they manage to do it wrong.

Edited December 29, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[goobinator]

sorry, sometimes people who spend $ on a product only to find out its not as good of a product as theyd hoped for like to voice concerns/complain in hopes that theyll get some of what theyre looking for.

 

but its good that there are people who will take whatever theyre given and smile. world needs that.

 

Voice your concerns over the phone or in emails or in custom service forums not on general forums thanks...

[DaEzz]

You clearly known nothing about development.

 

He knows enough to get the point through. I think its fair to say that a large amount of customers was expecting Bioware to have learned (for free, mind you) by the successes and failures of 10+ major, world wide MMO´s that has gone live during the 6 years of SWTORs development.

 

They didnt, or it was never understood by the BW devs how much it means for future subscriptions to have (for example) a customizable UI and a bit more then a 10 years old EQ1 type AH system.

 

People wont wait for stuff that by any standards should have been there from the start.

 

Wait until enough are 50 and start raiding and crafting for real and you will see. If the basics are flawed, the MMO part will not lift the game and create subscriptions/supply a playerbase.

 

Oh, and I didnt check the patch notes 100%, do we have a /random roll system yet btw?

Edited December 29, 2011 by DaEzz

[mastorofpuppetz]

He knows enough to get the point throught. I think its fair to say that a large amount of customers was expecting Bioware to have learned (for free, mind you) by the successes and failures of 10+ major, world wide MMO´s that has gone live during the 6 years of SWTORs development.

 

They didnt, or it was never understood by the BW devs how much it means for future subscriptions to have (for example) a customizable UI and a bit more then a 10 years old EQ1 type AH system.

 

People wont wait for stuff that by any standards should have been there from the start.

 

Wait until enough are 50 and start raiding and crafting for real and you will see. If the basics are flawed, the MMO part will not lift the game and create subscriptions/supply a playerbase.

 

Oh, and I didnt check the patch notes 100%, do we have a /random roll system yet btw?

 

So they game so far is an immense success and all signs point to it being a huge success so exactly what did they do wrong? You can whine all you want the game is attracting record number of players and great reviews... No matter whow much you whine.

 

As far as launches go this is about as good as it gets.

 

Also, anyone comparing a MMO now to WOW is an idiot, game development costs have risen ten fold since wow.

[Dekadez]

And how is wow right now?, you guys keep saying it as if wow was wonders, i played wow since vanilla, left before 4.2 patch

 

Here is the proof so you dont think im bull******** you.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ragnaros/Alarius/simple

 

As you can see the character was "Marshal", thats the old pvp system that was in place on vanilla, you dont see one of this often do you ?

!

 

I don't know what **** you've been smoking. WoW right now is how WoW is right *********** now. I'm comparing a game in december 2011 to a competitor in december 2011.

 

I don't even care what a random Armory has to do with this or what credibility your 'Vanilla experience' lends to your lack of argument. I've played WoW since closed beta, right until the 3rd of December. I'll criticize SWTOR for lacking basic elements that WoW did manage to feature, despite the fact some of them might have been added later during post-release development of the game.

 

Because that is what this thread is about, or at least the title: People forbidding you to compare SWTOR to WoW 2011, because WoW has received 7 years of constant updates and polishing. It's a rubbish argument. SWTOR should be compared to a 7 year old WoW, because it is not competing against the release version of its competitors. It *should* be compared to WoW in general too, despite how many here dislike the comparisons. Despite the hipster rebellious attitude concerning WoW (a game about everyone here has played). SWTOR and WoW are both mainstream MMO's fishing in the same pond of customers. They are direct competitors, whether you like it or not.

 

And while it is obvious (to me) that SWTOR has done a lot of things a lot better than WoW: It's a moot point. I'm not here to suggest improvements over WoW, I'm here to suggest improvements over the game I'm playing by stating the good elements WoW did have and SWTOR did not copy, or adapt (call it what you like). Things like an Auction House direct search, diminishing returns on crowd control, chat bubbles, UI customization, macros, certain addons.

 

Does that mean I want these implemented right NOW? No. But I can and I will state things this game lacks that other competitors have featured. And I can only hope they will get added as we go along with this.

 

I've almost had it with these boards: If you're criticizing SWTOR you're an illiterate fool who should get back to WoW. If you're making suggestions, you're an illiterate fool who should get back to WoW. If you're making any possible statement with even a shred of negativity, you're an illiterate fool who should get back to WoW.

Now I won't go back to WoW, I will continue making suggestions and giving critique where critique is due, just as I will applaud SWTOR for doing certain things splendidly. I will post negative things about this game, company or anything tied to it.

Why? Because I'm no tool. Everything has its positive and negative aspects, and both need to be voiced. By us.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Dekadez

[DaEzz]

Blizzard didn't have a workable UI until the modding community came in full effect.

 

This was 2006. And the modding community showed Blizzard what the customers wanted - and got - in a few months efter release.

 

Kind of something you would want to pick up on if you were for example designing a future, competing MMO I would think?

Edited December 29, 2011 by DaEzz

[DaEzz]

So they game so far is an immense success and all signs point to it being a huge success so exactly what did they do wrong?

 

Nothing, if their plan was to make a bundle out of selling hardcopies for a game with the standard 60-80 hours of gameplay because with the glaring oversights in basic functionality SWTOR will probably not succed as an MMO.

 

But it might be I am wrong, and in that case gladly so. We need more healthy MMO´s, not less.

 

Anyway, just drawing my conclusions by experience and observation, something that Bioware doesnt seem to value (as was my point in the first place).

Edited December 29, 2011 by DaEzz

[TheHauntingBard]

This was 2006. And the modding community showed Blizzard what the customers want - and got - in a few months efter relelase.

 

Kind of something you would want to pick up on if you were designing a future, competing MMO I would think?

 

Sorry we had to design space combat, it's more important.

Oh and starfox>space combat + Blizzard added that in SC2 and yeah it's way more fun.

[LaurV]

Well, why not compare?

 

If you wanna buy a live animal, a dog for combat, that you will need to use TODAY. What would you buy? A fully grown, trained dog that is fully usable in the first day that you buy it or a puppy that would require 7 years to be at the same level? And of course, with the same amount of money.

 

Or ... let's say a new car company just emerges on the market. Their first model is not so good, it lacks major features and acts not so good on the streets. It's price is the same as the price of a mercedes.

 

Would you compare the two or not? Would you buy with the intention to use it NOW the new car or a mercedes? The price being the same.

 

I'm a customer and i want to buy something that i wanna play NOW, not after 7 years ...

[Dekadez]

So they game so far is an immense success and all signs point to it being a huge success so exactly what did they do wrong? You can whine all you want the game is attracting record number of players and great reviews... No matter whow much you whine.

 

As far as launches go this is about as good as it gets.

 

Also, anyone comparing a MMO now to WOW is an idiot, game development costs have risen ten fold since wow.

 

First of all: Launch figures are meaningless. MMO's get out of their immense costs by attracting re-subbing customers over the years. How do you get people to continue subscribing? By continuously adding content and listening to their gripes, fixing what irritates them most. It's FAR cheaper to retain an existing customer, to make him into a happy customer, than to let him go and try to attract new customers. Marketing 101.

 

Secondly: The launch is good, I certainly agree. It's fairly smooth, they turned massive queues into tiny queues quickly. The game runs perfectly (on my rig at least). Apart from the European maintenance screw up, it's a fine launch. I've had much much worse.

 

Third: Read my post above. Product comparisons are made between products who are competing against each other. WoW and SWTOR are competing on a lot of levels, most importantly the pool of customers. They can and should be compared to each other, regardless of product age or R&D costs. Business 101.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Dekadez

[EwokLuvr]

edit: derp. Edited December 29, 2011 by EwokLuvr

[peroxsigh]

He knows enough to get the point throught. I think its fair to say that a large amount of customers was expecting Bioware to have learned (for free, mind you) by the successes and failures of 10+ major, world wide MMO´s that has gone live during the 6 years of SWTORs development.

 

They didnt, or it was never understood by the BW devs how much it means for future subscriptions to have (for example) a customizable UI and a bit more then a 10 years old EQ1 type AH system.

 

People wont wait for stuff that by any standards should have been there from the start.

 

Wait until enough are 50 and start raiding and crafting for real and you will see. If the basics are flawed, the MMO part will not lift the game and create subscriptions/supply a playerbase.

 

Oh, and I didnt check the patch notes 100%, do we have a /random roll system yet btw?

 

For starts, Blizzard has been dealing with threads like this (and then some) for 7 years. With 11 Million subscribers at their peak, I'd imagine the complaints exceeded these by 10x. 7 years of complaints and patches and many don't even give bioware ONE MONTH.

 

Swtor was in development before WoW had an LFG system or all of the other goodies it has now. Stuff like this should be taken into account. All of the things you want will come, but people need to realize blizzard didn't get TONS of things right until about 12 months ago with Cataclysm. That is when most of their innovations finally came into fruition and wouldn't have existed if it weren't for sites like wowace and curse.com.

 

The modding community is what created most of the things WoW does now by default and weren't implemented in the game until they become popular by demand - some 7 years in the making. SWTOR hasn't had the communities support yet in mods and things like that, give it time (assuming it's open source and will get 3rd party support).

 

Until then, we should stick to things that are obvious flaws instead of opinions derived by the things we grew fond of after several years in another game.

 

Things like

 

- No Combat Text

- Block/Parry animations overriding GCD

- Poor chat configurations, everything cluttered in 1 box (loot, experience, /say, guild, etc.)

- An LFG system ( a problem because they have an LFG mechanic in /who, so obviously KNEW this would be an issue )

- Graphical glitches, removal of AA in the options menu.

- Inability to assign " \ " to a quick slot because it will always open a ticket as well.

- Several useless abilities, like the "hard hitting" ones the Jedis have that require their target to be slowed and/or immobilized first but don't work in PVP.

- Melee lag, that makes the melee range look incredibly long, which is only lag because the block/parry animations override the gcd and so moves are then forced in que.

- Chat bubbles, every MMO has them by default. I'm not sure why this wasn't implemented.

- Moves on cooldown triggering the GCD to reset when spammed (this is seriously flawe, come on bioware)

 

etc etc, I can get into more drastic stuff if I want to but there are also SO many pros with the game as well. I currently juggle both WoW and SWTOR. Obviously, because I have Deathwing on farm and maxed out in WoW, my time on there consists solely of scheduled play dates for raids or pvp (another gladiator push would be nice).

 

So that allows me to play SWTOR more, since there is more to do than just raid/pvp now. Like see new content, level, gear up, gear my companion up, and finish my class story. Usually people would extrapolate that my time spent on SWTOR > WoW would mean I enjoyed it more, that would be false. However, although their reasoning would be false; their estimation would still be correct. I DO think the game is better at this point. My WoW is cluttered with 3rd party tools that IMO would fix all the minor complaints we have with swtor.

 

The UI for example, something we all are complaining about. I have 0 buttons on my WoW Interface. Thanks to Bartender, I removed all boxes/bars and everything is binding from the Spellbook/Macro menue. Blizzard doesn't have this option, this is something i can ONLY DO with a 3rd party addition.

 

Now, the game has some work to do and some learning curves to get around in terms of PvE content like fight encounters (way too much tank and spank). But I'm sure we all see that is oozes with potential and i'm certain bioware will deliver. Personally, I think they already have.

Edited December 29, 2011 by peroxsigh

[teamoldmill]

Does anyone even remember that WoW had no quest tracker at release? Now that was sometimes really a pain. That is some addition to the game that really made the game more playable, as for dungeon finders, look here...people are still divided.

 

Wow had almost nothing at release. Was a looting bug that froze your character for a while. End game content was Blackrock Spire. PvP was completely meaningless with no rewards. If you ran into a high level person with a blue crafted weapon you were in trouble.

 

Wow did some things right, of course. They have had time to perfect their game. They still do a lot of things badly. Level 85 people flying around murdering all Crossroads quest people? Come on. Very empty zones now that so much dungeon finder and pvp battleground instances are around.

[LordRelyks]

Tbh, if you want the same features that WoW offered, go back to WoW. If you haven't figured it out, SWTOR is supposed to revolutionize storyline, not create 40 man raids and make ridiculous questing grinds.

[weezdajuice]

Tbh, if you want the same features that WoW offered, go back to WoW. If you haven't figured it out, SWTOR is supposed to revolutionize storyline, not create 40 man raids and make ridiculous questing grinds.

 

yet it has plenty of those

[Beardedragon]

y know guys... i just want speech bubbles really. i mean, how the fack can one create an MMO without them? it removes the feeling of an MMO.. some how. Edited December 29, 2011 by Beardedragon

[AtinOrdo]

So you want us to shut up, cancel our subscription and come back in 7 years?

 

yes please

[LordRelyks]

yet it has plenty of those

 

Atleast the grinds have backstory and you can change the story line of your character. On WoW its basically "Kill these kill that collect these now go on your wyvern and do an end line quest".

[krookie]

y know guys... i just want speech bubbles really

 

Ditto. I don't understand how such a simple feature, one that has been in MMO since UO, is completely absent from a game released in 2011.

[MoonsLightV]

yet it has plenty of those

Even though I agree with this, i don't feel like I am grinding so much in this game as WOW. I think maybe because you have the companion to help you out, or, you kill 3-5 enemies in one shot in this game compared to WOW. Either way, it is at least tolerable. Still...the whole "kill this many of this" type of questing needs to be extinguished from gaming.

[DaEzz]

Now, the game has some work to do and some learning curves to get around in terms of PvE content like fight encounters (way too much tank and spank). But I'm sure we all see that is oozes with potential and i'm certain bioware will deliver. Personally, I think they already have.

 

I am really hoping that this game can blossom into a real, healthy MMO because we need more of those and not less.

 

But I am afraid that these obvious, glaring, basic functionality issues will cause people to lose their patience very soon (when they realise how they affect PvE and PvP at 50) and then it will be downhill from there.

 

Bioware should have made a better job with the UI, AH and certain other things before release - period.

 

This isnt 2006. What the vast majority of the potential customer base demands from a new MMO was there to see all along during development.

 

Failing to deliver on the crucial stuff might break SWTOR before it even takes off. But I hope I am wrong.

Edited December 29, 2011 by DaEzz