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Legacy wide components?

americanaussie

By americanaussie
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Valceanu

Valceanu

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are Ops Unassembled Pieces transferable to alts? If not then no, it doesnt need to happen... increasing the rate at which you get them maybe but other then that... Either way, personally id have tier 1/2 purchaseable with tokens (which are already legacy wide) and then only restrict T3 and T4 to the PvP and PvE scenarios...

 

However... i dont see why youd start another thread on the topic... it's being/has been discussed plenty on the forums already...

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Eli_Porter

Eli_Porter

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They don't need to be legacy vide per se... There just needs to be an item that can be bought with components and that item needs to be legacy bound. As was during the pvp commendation era.

 

My guess is they'll do this and make it cost command tokens as well.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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Valceanu

Valceanu

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How many unassembled pieces do you need to get the piece? With components it's in the 100's. Hardly comparable there but I don't see why it can't be a legacy item too.

 

Who cares? It's totally irrelevant to this discussion.

 

BW has already stated that they plan to do this, just not when.

 

ill try to answer both here... the numbers add up if you think about it. Which is why PvE matters to the discussion. They arent going to make it faster/easier to gear via PvP then via PvE i dont think.They will try to keep it as balanced as possible between the two else they will **** off one side of they player base or the other.

 

So, considering that... and then looking at time invested in OPS to gear up (this is all pre the changes in 5.2 as i dont know exactly how everything will work yet) then the same-ish amount of time needs to be invested in PvP. If an ops now has 2 drops for 8man that means you have to run each ops 4 times so that each individual player will have all the gear. If an Ops takes an average of 150 minutes to complete (2 and a half hours) and there are 9 master ops to get all the guaranteed pieces then in very simple math its 4x9x150=5400 minutes spent raiding so that each individual player gets the gear. How if we divide PvP in matches of say, 15 minutes... then, to reach the same time invested (5400min) you'd need to play 360 matches. Assuming a 50/50 win-loss ratio those 360 matches played in ranked group mode (sort of like how an ops functions) would yield 1980 unassembled components... roughly what it would cost to go from tier 1 to tier 2... and i think that is not surprising at all.

 

Sure, for the purpose of this example ive ignore the random drops from Ops, the fact that if youre on the side of the Imps youre likely to win more then half your game, the fact that you have to actually beat the content in PvE to get anything at all, etc. and ive used rounded up numbers in general... but im sure you get the principle behind the calculation. Well, you might say PvE gets to tier 3 in the same timeframe whereas PvE only reaches tier 2... true, but considering the fact that you can PvP in any gear and still never be below bolster level (and do get rewarded even when losing) as opposed to PvE where you need some gear to even atempt Master mode... i think it makes a lot of sense...

 

And that is why the number of neccesary components is irrelevant to whether you make them legacy or not and why PvE is relevant to them being legacy also... what would stop anyone from just loading up on components on their imperial FotM class and gearing up all their republic toons with those components?! ... some may not have an issue with it but personally i think it would be a work-around from how the game is intended to be played, not least of all because this is among other things an RPG and those have character development as opposed to "player development" (meaning that inside the game universe it's a specific character that achieves something as opposed to the player - again, RPG)...

Edited by Valceanu
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Eli_Porter

Eli_Porter

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and there are 9 master ops to get all the guaranteed pieces then in very simple math its 4x9x150=5400 minutes spent raiding so that each individual player gets the gear. How if we divide PvP in matches of say, 15 minutes... then, to reach the same time invested (5400min) you'd need to play 360 matches. Assuming a 50/50 win-loss ratio those 360 matches played in ranked group mode (sort of like how an ops functions) would yield 1980 unassembled components... roughly what it would cost to go from tier 1 to tier 2... and i think that is not surprising at all.

 

Did you seriously just compare clearing master mode operations with doing pvp? Do you have any idea how difficult master mode operations are? Also you didn't include any of the daily+weekly rewards in your pvp calculations.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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Valceanu

Valceanu

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Did you seriously just compare clearing master mode operations with doing pvp? Do you have any idea how difficult master mode operations are? Also you didn't include any of the daily+weekly rewards in your pvp calculations.

 

Personally i haven't done master mode yet (have done PvP though) but i know it's hard ... but what you say is very true thank you... Slipped my mind on dailies/weeklies as I was at work when writing that post. But your points only reinforce my post and gives further weight to the PvE side. So then why should the PvP path have it easier and have the tokens be legacy no less?! Or are you agreeing with the general sentiment of my post?

Edited by Valceanu
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Eli_Porter

Eli_Porter

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Personally i haven't done master mode yet (have done PvP though) but i know it's hard ... but what you say is very true thank you... Slipped my mind on dailies/weeklies as I was at work when writing that post. But your points only reinforce my post and gives further weight to the PvE side. So then why should the PvP path have it easier and have the tokens be legacy no less?! Or are you agreeing with the general sentiment of my post?

 

If UC becomes legacy then you could play some PvP on any of your level 70 alts without it feeling like you're wasting your time.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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Ratajack

Ratajack

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If UC becomes legacy then you could play some PvP on any of your level 70 alts without it feeling like you're wasting your time.

 

You would not be wasting your time. You would be working towards gearing THAT level 70, not simply playing your uber geared FOTM main to gear up that "nerfed" alt.

 

You can already send the mods between characters via legacy gear. Sure, it is a credit sink, but the only pieces that you really need to actually earn per character are the "left side" earpiece, implants and relics.

 

Those still need to be earned per character in PVE as well, so the balance is fair. IMO.

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mike_carton

mike_carton

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I don't understand why some people consistently oppose suggestions that'd be beneficial to players by referring implicitly or explicitly to some "higher purpose" or imaginary "fairness principle."

 

My own philosophy is "if it doesn't negatively impact me, I'm all for anything that benefits any other segment of players." That might even incentivize me to play differently or play different parts of the game.

 

The last comment about the BoL UC matter by Eric was to say "we're considering it" which is corporate-speak for "not any time soon" IMO. We know 5.2 won't be doing it. Making UC BoL will encourage people to play PvP with multiple alternate characters for the Daily and Weekly rewards adding to the PvP population (a good thing in my opinion.) Move pre-made groups to ranked queue at the same time and you'd have solved half the important issues with PvP today (class balance and bots will still be an issue.)

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AscendingSky

AscendingSky

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You would not be wasting your time. You would be working towards gearing THAT level 70, not simply playing your uber geared FOTM main to gear up that "nerfed" alt.

 

You can already send the mods between characters via legacy gear. Sure, it is a credit sink, but the only pieces that you really need to actually earn per character are the "left side" earpiece, implants and relics.

 

Those still need to be earned per character in PVE as well, so the balance is fair. IMO.

 

You realize that the left side of the character sheet is nearly half your gear, right? XD That's why it's wasting your time if you're playing PvP on a character who already has a left side filled. Why are you so opposed to a quality of life improvement that existed in the last expansion (since warzone commendations could be transferred between toons on the same legacy)? Is it some kind of misplaced elitist nonsense? You already have your tier 3 and just want to keep melting those who don't have the time to grind endlessly for gear like you, so you don't want other people able to gear their alts? Seriously, who could it possibly hurt to make unassembled components bound or transferrable through legacy?

Edited by AscendingSky
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Eli_Porter

Eli_Porter

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Source?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9231661

 

You would not be wasting your time. You would be working towards gearing THAT level 70, not simply playing your uber geared FOTM main to gear up that "nerfed" alt.

 

You can already send the mods between characters via legacy gear. Sure, it is a credit sink, but the only pieces that you really need to actually earn per character are the "left side" earpiece, implants and relics.

 

Those still need to be earned per character in PVE as well, so the balance is fair. IMO.

 

I'm already gearing 3 characters. None of which are getting full BiS any time soon. If I wanna PvP with any of my other characters, i'm getting currency which won't see use for (at the very least) months to come.

 

And let's say my main reaches BiS. PvP'ing with it now loses its value if Legacy UC doesn't exist, since I won't be able to upgrade my alt's pieces and would instead have to get basic pieces to upgrade from (which you can't get from crates on a rank 300 since none of the pieces are upgrade-able). And that's just for mods i can legacy transfer, the left-side gear is completely character-bound.

 

Legacy UC will promote a more varied playstyle instead of focusing on just 1-3 characters at a time. And if it has the correct penalties, it won't force that playstyle.

Edited by Eli_Porter
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Ratajack

Ratajack

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You realize that the left side of the character sheet is nearly half your gear, right? XD That's why it's wasting your time if you're playing PvP on a character who already has a left side filled. Why are you so opposed to a quality of life improvement that existed in the last expansion (since warzone commendations could be transferred between toons on the same legacy)? Is it some kind of misplaced elitist nonsense? You already have your tier 3 and just want to keep melting those who don't have the time to grind endlessly for gear like you, so you don't want other people able to gear their alts? Seriously, whocould it possibly hurt to make unassembled components bound or transferrable through legacy?

 

Nearly half? Would you like to reconsider your math? That is like saying that 1 out of 3 is "nearly half".

 

The last time I checked 5/14 is far closer to 1/3 than 1/2. Almost 2/3 of your gear has mods that can be sent between characters and only 5 have to be earned per character.

 

Let's not forget the fact that those with many multiple alts to do the daily/weekly missions would have a substantial advantage over those without an army of alts.

 

Unless I am mistaken, when warzone commendations could be legacy transferred, PVP gear and PVE gear were different and distinct due to the expertise stat. Warzone commendations could only be used to purchase PVP gear and could not be used to purchase PVE gear.

 

Now there is no difference between PVE gear and PVP gear, and allowing a PVP'er to use that uber geared FOTM main to gear up the "left side" of that "nerfed" alt without having to play that "nerfed" alt, while still requiring the PVE'er to play that alt he wants to gear with "left side" pieces would hardly be fair, would it?

Edited by Ratajack
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TUXs

TUXs

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How many unassembled pieces do you need to get the piece? With components it's in the 100's. Hardly comparable there but I don't see why it can't be a legacy item too.

The price for gear with components is WAY too high. They need to be cut in half (at least) or have component rewards doubled.

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Ratajack

Ratajack

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If you actually read what BW says, I think you will see that that link does not say they will be implementing legacy UC's.

 

Hey folks,

 

As I mentioned earlier this week, we have quite a few changes planned for gearing over the next few Updates. Let’s go over what they are, when they are happening, and why!

 

Game Update 5.1.1 – Coming February 7th

  • All Command Experience Points (CXP) gains, CXP Boosts, and CXP Legacy Perks are now additive instead of multiplicative.
    • This change is being made to setup for the greatly increased CXP gains that are possible in 5.1.1 (if you love math click the spoiler tag below for what this means in greater detail)

    [*]New CXP leveling event. This event will run until Game Update 5.2 in April. During this event all CXP earned will be increased by 250%.

    • The goal is that you will earn one crate every 30 minutes or less. The 30 minute time-frame is for a Tier 3 crate (meaning 1 and 2 will be even faster).

    [*]All CXP Packs that you earn from drops and Missions are now Bind on Legacy.

    • This change is to help a player distribute CXP around their Legacy if they choose to do so.

    [*]We are introducing a new 100% CXP boost in addition to the existing 15% and 25% boosts. This boost can be purchased from the Command Token vendor or the Cartel Market. This boost only works up to Command Rank 180 and lasts 2 hours (Command Tokens) or 3 hours (Cartel Market).

    • The goal of selling this boost for Command Tokens is that it allows higher Command Rank players to use their Tokens to greatly accelerate leveling their alts (you can also buy them on the CM or GTN).

 

Game Update 5.1.2 – Coming February 28th

  • We will be rebalancing the CXP rewards you earn from Operations. Boss kills will now award more CXP than they did previously. The Operations Weekly has had its CXP reward greatly increased.
    • Operations CXP rewards are below where we would like them to be and so we are increasing their CXP value from both gameplay and Missions.

    [*]Group Finder Daily CXP Rewards are being added. Completing the Daily Group Finder Bonus will award you with a bonus CXP Pack.

    • We wanted to ensure there were great CXP incentives to participating in Group Finder. By making it a CXP Pack it has the added bonus of being Bind on Legacy so you can use it on whatever character you would like.

    [*]The completion Mission for Flashpoints have had their CXP values greatly increased.

    • Flashpoint CXP rewards are also below where we would like them be to and so we have added a much larger CXP bonus for completing their respective Missions.

    [*]The Flashpoint and Uprising Weekly Missions have had their CXP rewards increased.

    • Our goal is to really encourage players to play multiple types of content for the best rewards. We want to encourage playing a diverse set of content, not a singular activity (although you can always still do that if you prefer)

    [*]The PvP Daily and Weekly Missions now reward a batch of Unassembled Components.

    • This is one of the changes we are making to help players in getting Unassembled Components faster. It also incentivizes dabbling into PvP often.

    [*]We have increased the Unassembled Components that are awarded to players after completing Ranked and Unranked Warzones.

    • Not only did we want to reward playing Warzones through Missions, but we also wanted to ensure that those of you who play primarily Warzones each day could work towards purchasing gear quicker.

 

In the future

  • Unassembled Components and Legacy. We understand your Legacy is important to you and we agree with that, we are looking at ways to address that in the future.

 

These are all of the changes you can expect in 5.1.1 and 5.1.2 for Galactic Command. As you can see there is a lot happening and we want to hear what you think. As we go through these updates we will continue to monitor feedback and data to see what other adjustments may need to be made!

 

-eric

 

 

 

Let’s take a look at what the change from multiplicative to additive means. Warning, if you don’t like math, you’re not going to enjoy this 

 

The way CXP and its respective boosts work right now is that the % increases multiply with each other, hence the term multiplicative. Assuming that normal CXP gains =100%, this is what multiplicative boosting looks like:

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost

100% * 10% * 25% = 137.5% CXP earned

 

Here is a more extreme example to see where this gets complex:

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost + highlighted activity + DvL Bonus

100% * 10% * 25% * 20% * 15% = 189.75% CXP earned

 

As you can see, the more boosts you add into the equation the more difficult it becomes to tell how much of a bonus you are actually getting. Since we are going to be running a 250% CXP event and adding a 100% boost. We thought this would be a good time to make that math cleaner for players to figure out and so that our % boost wouldn’t get difficult to manage. Now, the same math from above would look like this:

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost

100% + 10% + 25% = 135% CXP earned

 

CXP + legacy boost + CXP boost + highlighted activity + DvL Bonus

100% + 10% + 25% + 20% + 15% = 170% CXP earned

 

One thing you will notice is that the % you earn with additive is lower than that of multiplicative. That is one of the reasons that we are making this change under the new event, so that you aren’t actually losing any CXP earned. We also will factor this into future changes to ensure that the additive change isn’t a nerf to the CXP you earn. Especially since our goal is to ensure you are earning it faster, not slower.

 

Nowhere did Eric say that UC's would be made legacy wide only that they will be "looking at ways to address that in the future".

 

It appears that, once again, we have someone who took a statement from BW and not only read what they wanted to see into that statement, but took it as a promise that what they want to see will be implemented.

Edited by Ratajack
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AscendingSky

AscendingSky

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Let's not forget the fact that those with many multiple alts to do the daily/weekly missions would have a substantial advantage over those without an army of alts.

 

Unless I am mistaken, when warzone commendations could be legacy transferred, PVP gear and PVE gear were different and distinct due to the expertise stat. Warzone commendations could only be used to purchase PVP gear and could not be used to purchase PVE gear.

 

Now there is no difference between PVE gear and PVP gear, and allowing a PVP'er to use that uber geared FOTM main to gear up the "left side" of that "nerfed" alt without having to play that "nerfed" alt, while still requiring the PVE'er to play that alt he wants to gear with "left side" pieces would hardly be fair, would it?

 

So you don't have a real reason other than "OMG it wouldn't be fair to let people be able to play the characters they actually want to play and still gear other toons!" because you're an elitist who already has tier 3 and just wants to keep having easy pickings from people playing alts. And you make personal attacks and insults on anyone who disagrees with you. So you're not worth anyone's time and belong on my ignore list. Got it. :rak_03:

Edited by AscendingSky
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Ottoattack

Ottoattack

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If we equate UC to WZ comms, since they are rewards from PvP to buy gear. WZ comms could be transferred to alts. WZ comms had high limits that you do not over accrue them.

 

I do not understand people who oppose legacy wide or low cap. We have already been through this before and we know that they should be legacy wide and with high cap. BW and some posters make the same mistakes over and over again and never learn.

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Eli_Porter

Eli_Porter

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If you actually read what BW says, I think you will see that that link does not say they will be implementing legacy UC's.

 

 

 

Nowhere did Eric say that UC's would be made legacy wide only that they will be "looking at ways to address that in the future".

 

It appears that, once again, we have someone who took a statement from BW and not only read what they wanted to see into that statement, but took it as a promise that what they want to see will be implemented.

 

So first you ignore my argument and then you come up with an unsubstantiated red herring (of course he's talking about legacy UC) followed by an insult. I'm not gonna bother continuing this discussion.

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