Slicing: Why it had to be nerfed.

[drdovetalk]

To the folks who are complaining that they are constantly broke without slicing - is it because you are trying to level a crafting skill at the same time?

 

Crafting skills are generally meant to be money sinks during the leveling phase. It is natural to be strapped for cash if u want to level crafting at the same time as your character.

 

Even in WoW, if you start a new character on a new server and level crafting as you go, you will naturally be strapped for cash. And you don't hear anyone in WoW complaining that this is an unfair outcome.

[Rexking]

I think this issue should be closed already. For the ones defending the pre-nerf slicing, they must realize and open their eyes, that there are other ways to make a lot of money. This can't turn a gathering profession into an exploit in which gives you instant cash. This is not Star Wars Slicing the Old Republic.

[hushia]

Other gathering professions have the added benefit of providing free leveling to your crafting skills.

 

Nonsense, it's not free. If you got the mats from a mission, you paid for that. If you got them from gathering, you could have sold them on the market instead.

[DAntiVirus]

I think this issue should be closed already. For the ones defending the pre-nerf slicing, they must realize and open their eyes, that there are other ways to make a lot of money. This can't turn a gathering profession into an exploit in which gives you instant cash. This is not Star Wars Slicing the Old Republic.

 

Nor is it Star Wars Crafting the Old Republic.

 

Yeah Slicing needed adjusted but it did not get adjusted, it got nuked.

 

Also, what are all these other ways to make a lot of money people keep mentioning? Crafting? Most say that is a credit sink until level 50, so not point there having to grind away at it for days to start making money. Seriously not fun, at least for me. PvP? Umm no. I don't PvP. Running mission? Not much money there and most times the gear I do get it is already worse than the gear I have.

 

So people say go hit nodes. Well, with millions playing, most times the nodes are already harvested and take forever to respawn.

 

So these other ways of to make a lot of money I'm just not seeing. I am sure they are there but apparently they have a really good cloak system as I can't find them.

[Daragoz]

And, again, the point is missed. Is everyone deliberately missing the point? Right in the freaking codex it says slicing is to make CREDITS. What part of this is not understood? SERIOUSLY, wake up.

 

You don't have to craft while you level to be broke. Try not being able to buy your class skills, let alone craft because you don't have the credits. That's totally fun. This isn't "Star Wars grinding The Old Republic".

 

Everyone needs to get off their high horse and shut up. Yes, this issue should be closed. It NEVER should have been a problem in the first place. Just because a few people made millions doesn't mean the game is broken, nor does it mean in the slightest that people took advantage.

 

Due to whiny people (how many times does this have to be stated for people to finally get it....) thousands of people are being punished because 1% got rich. **** shut star wars down its broken, someone has credits doing something that was built into the game...

 

You know what? Maybe BW DOES need to nerf every other profession, lets see how many of you like that. Sounds good to me. I can't slice to get credits, and I can't craft either... Why? BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE ANY CREDITS YOU DOLT.

 

I shouldn't have to do something UNFUN to me to make credits. Does that mean the only fun is slicing? not in the least. THere ARE other things out there. So shut up about slicing already. I'm sick of hearing the same crap about "i have millions it needed nerfed", "it needed nerfed, I'm a economy major..", "it needed nerfed, im poor and that slicing guy is rich".... and the list goes on.

 

STOP WHINING!!!!!!!!!! And, stop trying to ruin a game for no reason whatsoever.

 

OH, and just as a case and point... right after the nerf the slicing nodes on Coruscant on the Juyo server worked (other than one or two), and today you cant use but maybe 1/3 or less. How would all of you that have gathering professions like it if suddenly your missions cost too much for you to want to do them because you got no gain and 66% or more of your gathering nodes didn't work??? You would 110% troll the forums and cry, just like your crying because people made credits from a profession that says right in the codex that SLICING IS A GATHERING PROFESSION FOR GETTING CREDIT BOXES AND AUGMENTS. Oh, and augments are about useless unless you have EXCEPTIONAL CRAFTED GEAR.

 

Read the codex, shut up, and stop ruining SWTOR by being a forum troll hounding BW to "make the game fair..".

Edited December 30, 2011 by Daragoz

[drdovetalk]

@Daragoz

Your complaint is that the cost of learning skills is too expensive. In which case the appropriate response by BW is to lower these fixed costs. The inappropriate response is to restore slicing to pre-nerf status, because it will mean that everyone will need to get slicing to overcome the high fixed costs.

 

Forcing people to get slicing to overcome high fixed costs is a sledgehammer approach with 2 unintended consequences. Firstly, we will have runaway inflation because slicing is a scaleable means of printing money (just create lots of slicing alts). Secondly, it limits player choice because 1 out of your 3 crew skill choices will have to be slicing. These two consequences reduce gameplay fun for all players.

[Daragoz]

How much does it cost for a class skill at lvl 40?

How much does it cost for a class skill at lvl 50?

How much does it cost for crafting missions at lvl 40 or 50?

How much does it cost for gear, weapons, ANYTHING at lvl 40 and 50?

 

 

Try taking that into account.

 

And, no, I am not at lvl 40+ so I do not have the figures, however, I know people who are.

[Elyx]

Well said OP.

 

those that are still stuck on the fact that your losing money need to get past that...EVERY GATHERING SKILL MISSION LOSES MONEY

 

 

just in case it didn't click, let me repeat it. EVERY GATHERING SKILL MISSION LOSES MONEY. Go ahead and try to argue that...it wont work. the fact that your getting an actual money value doesn't change the fact that EVERY GATHERING SKILL MISSION LOSES MONEY.

 

the other skills offset SOME of the loss by being able to sell the mats (or keep and lose more). slicing simply loses less. just like a scavenger who sold his mats he gained...he netted a loss, but it was much less then if he didn't sell the goods. I don't understand why some people can't grasp that. perhaps they need to level some other gathering skills. perhaps they just need to stop looking at the money in and money out. if your stuck on the whole "im losing money on missions" idea, your not grasping the whole picture of this slicing nerf.

 

Although i think that much of its a visual feedback issue. Yes, we can say that the offset is about equal between slicing and other gathering skills, but with other gathering skills, you have something in your bags to feel good about, and its easy to convince yourself that you got something more then the slicer did.

 

At the end of the day though, you need to look at overall net loss. did the slicer end up at the same net loss that the other gathering skills did, taking into account the variables. You can't control market price, but market price impacts the gatherer more then the slicer.

 

I think the actual problem is not the slicing (thought slicing was indeed broke as it was). It was the money sinks in the game. the high cost of the standard money sinks (repairs, vehicles) made it challenging to have enough funds to afford them. Slicing was the solution (however broke it was) that people used to fill in the gap.

 

the problem wasn't a broken gathering skill. it is an unbalance economy. people are acting like slicing is our only solution to the economy. If that were the case, then EVERY MMO out there would HAVE to have a slicing skill. And they don't. because slicing isn't critical to the game. A balanced economy is. And Bio simply took out the broke band-aid people were using. not our fault really..Bio needs to balance the economy in a better way and not depend on a skill that is a simple money return to offset poor design.

 

On the note of slicing, I agree with a previous poster. they need to fix the other things instead of the income gain. they need to make augments more wanted and viable. increasing crit chance is one idea...another is simply give crafters the ability to CRAFT an augument slot in an item they make. perhaps use an extra mat or something. adding a few recipes per crafting tier wouldn't be too difficult, and it would make augments actually viable at all the levels you are gaining them at.

 

Oh...and on a personal note...im making money at slicing and at my craftiing skills and my other gathering skill. Of course, im not running missions at the moment, im just....are you ready for it...im GATHERING my own materials. I know....total shock.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elyx

[Elyx]

How much does it cost for a class skill at lvl 40?

How much does it cost for a class skill at lvl 50?

How much does it cost for crafting missions at lvl 40 or 50?

How much does it cost for gear, weapons, ANYTHING at lvl 40 and 50?

 

 

Try taking that into account.

 

And, no, I am not at lvl 40+ so I do not have the figures, however, I know people who are.

 

that's the point. it's not slicing that's the issue, its costs of money sinks in the game. slicing isn't a solution because it globally affects the economy to fix a small group of issues. we should focus on the issues themselves, not complain about the fact that they fixed a broke gathering skill that wasn't meant to be the solution in the first place.

[Perinn]

How much does it cost for gear, weapons, ANYTHING at lvl 40 and 50?

 

 

Try taking that into account.

 

And, no, I am not at lvl 40+ so I do not have the figures, however, I know people who are.

 

185 warzone comms for 40 orange gear...

 

355 for weapons...

 

yea gear is really cheap 40+ if you would do Warzones

[Elyx]

185 warzone comms for 40 orange gear...

 

355 for weapons...

 

yea gear is really cheap 40+ if you would do Warzones

 

that's another issue, separate but equally in need of repair. you can warzone for a short while and get better gear then you woudl get form 2-3x more questing and crafting. PvP rewards are seriously broke IMO...but that issue deserves it's own topic

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elyx

[ShenLong]

My version of it.

 

Dear Slicers,

 

Shut up. We get it, they overnerfed you. We get it, you think you shouldn't have been nerfed at all. We get it, you think you can singlehandedly make all the crafters rich and wealthy beyond their dreams. We get that you can't be easy millionaires anymore.

 

We get it, so shut up.

 

Sincerely yours,

A crafter.

 

For the record, according to the logic of "Because we'd have so much money to spend on your stuff crafters, that's why they should've kept slicing." By that logic, I should be the one pissed because of the nerf since it means credits aren't being put into my pocket. But I'm not. I'm pissed because so many people are crying about slicing because they can't get rich beyond their dreams anymore.

 

Here's a little secret folks. There wouldn't be so many people crying if there weren't so many slicers who wanted their get rich quick scheme.

[Seqilan]

First off, I'd like to remind everyone that we're talking about a MMORPG that had its launch just 10 days ago and due to the sheer size of the whole project, it's not unlikely that changes you see now were actually decided during Early Access or even the Beta.

 

So for now at least, I'm giving some credit to Bioware and hope the change was due to credible data the devs had and not due to some people whining or any other, non-sensible reason.

 

That said, I also have to add that you can't compare credit income from Slicing Missions to game activities like Dailies, Warzones or Space Missions for the simple reason that said activities require player participation and I'm absolutely sure the potential income from those is something that Bioware is fully aware of and has balanced the NPC costs accordingly.

 

So, in my opinion, the only way to constructively discuss the effect of the nerf on the viability of Slicing is by comparing it to other gathering professions and see how it holds up, because in the end it is a gathering profession, nothing more, nothing less.

[ballbrner]

You did a couple of things with the slicing nerf..first, the economy of the game is terrible for levelers, so by removing the primary source of income for a lot of players, you just sucked a ton of money out of the economy. Second, I now skip all those pretty missions and do pvp so i can afford to leveling professions. If i could sell the mats in the tradehouse, that would be great, but it just isnt happening. Gratz because i will be leveling pvp primarily so i can afford to level professions.

[ballbrner]

I am flat out telling you, if you all dont fix the economy or fix slicing, i am going straight back to world of warcraft where at least i didnt have to buy game currency from the chinese just to afford mounts, leveling, and leveling professions. With the slicing nerf, you just made every gold farmers day.

[Blueraven]

I am going to first say that I read the OP and many of the other comments. I am not sure if this argument has been said as I don't have the patience to read through people complaining about various different aspects.

 

I will say this. When I picked up slicing I did it for the cybertech schematics and missions. The money was an added bonus. However, as a cybertech myself, I had to sacrifice a gathering mission (i.e. scavenging or underworld trading) just to get these schematics. The money I was making from slicing was going to other players to by scavenging mats from trade network so that I could level my skill. Now that slicing returns no credits, schematics are rare, missions are rare, I can't craft, and can't turn much of a profit.

 

The extra creds from slicing I thought were intended for this as a compensation for sacrificing a needed crewskill to get the schematics needed. I agree, the nerf was needed, but not to that extent.

 

I disagree when people say you are supposed to lose money with missions because those items can either be sold to players or used in crafting gear for yourself or to sell to other people. Now when I run a slicing mission, I get a cred box for 20 creds more than the mission cost or less, and thats all. If my companion fails then I'm out even more. Every mission has a chance to fail, slicing aside, but at least other crafters get SOMETHING for their time.

[Elyx]

You did a couple of things with the slicing nerf..first, the economy of the game is terrible for levelers, so by removing the primary source of income for a lot of players, you just sucked a ton of money out of the economy. Second, I now skip all those pretty missions and do pvp so i can afford to leveling professions. If i could sell the mats in the tradehouse, that would be great, but it just isnt happening. Gratz because i will be leveling pvp primarily so i can afford to level professions.

 

you simply proved our point. It isn't slicing that was the issue...it's the busted economy! It's an economy where people feel the need to do a part of the game that isn't PvE to afford PvE stuff. It's an economy where People feel like the crutch of a broken gathering skill was critical for survival.

 

But it wasn't an issue with SLICING. It's quite possible that Bioware is in the process of adjusting the economy, and they needed to take out the things that were hiding the issue itself. such as slicing...and the broke PvP rewards.

 

The extra creds from slicing I thought were intended for this as a compensation for sacrificing a needed crewskill to get the schematics needed. I agree, the nerf was needed, but not to that extent.

 

NO offense, but I wish people would stop generalizing this. I am currently leveling a sage and I am using slicing (post nerf) and I am MAKING MONEY.

 

do I need to repeat that? i am MAKING MONEY OFF OF SLICING RIGHT NOW.

 

it's not a huge secret either. And I don't think im some amazing super joe who is uber at his class. I simply grab every slicing node that I run across. You know...resource gathering, like every other MMO out there makes their players do...

 

The other part of the secret is....I'm not doing missions. i learned early on with my scavanging and archeology that when you do missions, you lose money. when you gather resources, you make money. all you WoW guys should know this. It's not like WoW gives you free money for sending your non combat pets out on a "mission".

 

if you want to make money in WoW, you need to...run around and gather materials and sell them. in SWtOR you need to...run around gathering materials. in the case of slicing, you simply have cut out the GM process. sounds like a bargain to me. no waiting for the market, and you have positive cash in pocket. go figure.

 

...you guys sure got spoiled quick off of the free moneyz in slicing pre-nerf. now, i won't argue that costs need to be adjusted in the game. But even still, I will have my speeder money, including repairs, probably by the time I'm 20. using slicing. post nerf.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Elyx

[ballbrner]

is it me, or does it seem that bioware went to the obama school of economics?

[ShenLong]

is it me, or does it seem that bioware went to the obama school of economics?

 

Is it just me or are you just poor at planning?

[ballbrner]

you should at least try to make sense before you make a response..u mad about the obama joke?

[Faxxon]

Read several posts

 

Lol@kids who thought getting credit boxes from missions was supposed to be a return profit and not a buffer used to level slicing without making it a huge money sink with no beneficial return (imagine leveling slicing with no reward, 1-400 while draining your credits to 0 ) on the side aside from gathering nodes, thought you could practically "print money" with a profession intentionally?

 

Average user IQ of these forums is terrible

Edited December 30, 2011 by Faxxon

[Thanatosx]

Read several posts

 

Lol@kids who thought getting credit boxes from missions was supposed to be a return profit and not a buffer used to level slicing without making it a huge money sink with no beneficial return (imagine leveling slicing with no reward, 1-400 while draining your credits to 0 ) on the side aside from gathering nodes, thought you could practically "print money" with a profession intentionally?

 

Average user IQ of these forums is terrible

 

You must be looking in the mirror with the kid and low IQ comment.

 

You are also comparing a crafting profession to a gathering profession -- apples to oranges.

 

You should go back and re-read further so you really understand the nature of the issues instead of just trolling.

[Killiandros]

I never intended to take slicing for my characters. I picked up treasure hunting, artifice and archaeology on my main and ran missions in addition to gathering in the open worlds.

 

At about 20 or so (whenever you get the message to tell you to start saving for a speeder license) I looked at the credits I had and made the decision to untrain treasure hunting and pick up slicing instead.

 

Fast forward to level 25 on my main, speeder training barely dented the bank balance, I was running archaeology missions as well, I had cash to splash around on whatever I felt like buying and I had well over 100K credits sitting there spare with slicing levelled to ~250.

 

This was in a relatively short amount of time and required very little effort.

 

I think it should be entirely re-purposed to make it viable - clicking a button and just getting money delivered to me automatically shouldn't be the end result. I could have remained with treasure hunting initially, but why bother working so much harder with crafting/GTN etc. to turn a profit when the guy next to me just queues up his companions on slicing missions and reaps potentially staggering benefits with little effort?

 

So did slicing need a nerf? In my opinion, yes - and this is supported by the fact there are so many people complaining over not getting free credits anymore. (I'd still be using slicing if it weren't for the nerf but I'm not crushed about it.)

Let's see what Bioware do with it next.

[ballbrner]

So the level 25 mount is a total of 48k credits. Please tell me what profession or professions i am supposed to do that will yield even close while paying for repairs and everything else.

[Thanatosx]

So did slicing need a nerf? In my opinion, yes - and this is supported by the fact there are so many people complaining over not getting free credits anymore. (I'd still be using slicing if it weren't for the nerf but I'm not crushed about it.)

Let's see what Bioware do with it next.

 

Most people aren't complaining about "free credits" since it didn't provide free credits. Read about what the gathering skill was designed to do -- people are complaining because the skill no longer does what it was designed to do.

 

Most people agree it wasn't balanced and it remains, unbalanced.