Please remove EV/KP Veteran from the 5.2 loot table for Veteran Operations

[fushnchips]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

[RagnarAugustus]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

 

Oh come on, this is perhaps the most asinine post I've seen in a long time and that's saying something since the 5.0 announcement. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the "224 loot basket paradise" as you put it as it actually encouraged people to run the Op of the week even if it was an unpopular Op like EC, ToS etc.. and if it was EV\KP who cares because those are excellent ops to introduce newbies to HM raiding where mechanics count after SM Ops were nerfed to flashpoint status in 4.0,. EV\KP are also great ops to gear a new hard mode progression ops group member should you need to bring in a sub for an extended period of time who many not be geared well.

 

At this point in 5.x EV and KP will actually allow raiders who have been shafted by the merciless RNG Gods to be able to catch up getting their mains and alts geared to where they would have been at this time during 4.0 had the loot system not been destroyed in 5.0. I fail to see how the sky is falling.

 

Taking the entire gearing picture into mind currently, even without guaranteed gear people still farm EV\KP for command XP. Regarding "fairness" if non-end game players can get BiS gear from doing absolutely nothing but getting lucky in command packs there is no reason that EV\KP should be nerfed into the ground gear wise. I believe the 5.0 mantra is why does the level of gear someone else has bother you?

[Rion_Starkiller]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

 

From an elitist standpoint, I agree.

From a practical standpoint, decrease the number of boss drops in those two ops.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[teclado]

EV/KP will not drop 248, so it's not the same as back when they dropped 224.

 

You said that it sends the wrong message to players, giving them a false impression that since they can do EV/KP, then they can do any single boss such as Monolith. I don't think that many people actually believe that, otherwise they find out pretty quick how sorely mistaken they were.

 

EV/KP being easier provides a foothold into getting better gear for moving on to harder ops, while still not dropping BiS 248. I think that's a good thing.

[Rion_Starkiller]

EV/KP will not drop 248, so it's not the same as back when they dropped 224.

 

You said that it sends the wrong message to players, giving them a false impression that since they can do EV/KP, then they can do any single boss such as Monolith. I don't think that many people actually believe that, otherwise they find out pretty quick how sorely mistaken they were.

 

EV/KP being easier provides a foothold into getting better gear for moving on to harder ops, while still not dropping BiS 248. I think that's a good thing.

 

Maybe you're right, but it's hard to see it that way when 248's are still an abstract thought.

[bdatt]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

 

Nah NiM early bosses, NiM final bosses, HM Tyth all will drop better gear. Having some easy stuff drop decent gear lets me run my 3rd alt in pugs late at night after I put the wife to sleep and get some gear. Plus no MH, implants, relics, or head drop from EV/KP.

Edited March 3, 2017 by bdatt

[jimmorrisson]

I am for nerfing all operations down to EV/KP level.

[ottffsse]

EV/KP still should be capped at 236 in hm really, you can run the other ops in your 236 gear to get the 242s if you really want them, we know you do.

 

Having EV/KP drop gear rating pices on par with other ops really lessens the other ops which actually have mechanics.

 

/flameaway plebs

[Tsillah]

I actually disagree with this.

 

I didn't like the the priority ops system in 4.0 but like it's proposed for 5.2 I am fine with this. EV and KP will drop tier 3 gear but it's not possible to get tier 4 gear there. They will have to pvp a lot or be lucky with crates to get tier 4 gear and I think that's fair enough.

 

I do no think that's realistic anymore today to make too much gear exclusive to hardcore raiders. That's a thing of the past that won't work for MMOs today much anymore in my view. At least not in the West.

 

Also I've noticed that EV and KP in HM are not push over ops anymore for pugs as they were in 4.0 before. Sure, for regular raiders who have a clue they're easy. But I've been in various groups recently (even some guild groups believe it or not) that struggled with the DPS on various bosses and that didn't happen that way in 4.0. I really think that good raiders shouldn't underestimate their skill in this context.

 

And where some people only have two operations (EV and KP) that they can manage, more hard core or dedicated raiders will have many more which means they will gain tier 4 gear much faster and reliably. So all in all I think this is the right balance.

[NogueiraA]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

 

Bioware is trying to fix things and you're trying to break it again.

No.

[RobertFKennedyUS]

Disagree with the OP. As someone already mentioned KP/EV HM doesn't even drop the equivalent of 224. Can't remove what isn't there.

[merovejec]

Please remove EV/KP Veteran from the 5.2 loot table for Veteran Operations .

 

You want the people to stop raiding completely???

 

Its needed for Bioware to show off metrics that people do ops, so please keep such suggestions to your self!

[Rion_Starkiller]

Its needed for Bioware to show off metrics that people do ops, so please keep such suggestions to your self!

 

Oh, wow. Good point. ****, I didn't think of that... GG

[masterceil]

There's not a limited amount of gear in the game, OP. Scrubs that can only manage HM EV/KP and getting their own gear does not take away your gear, at all. You have zero cause to deny them gear. If you want to know who's actually cleared "worthy" content, that's what the "Inspect Achievements" tool is for.

 

/notsigned

[Rion_Starkiller]

There's not a limited amount of gear in the game, OP. Scrubs that can only manage HM EV/KP and getting their own gear does not take away your gear, at all. You have zero cause to deny them gear. If you want to know who's actually cleared "worthy" content, that's what the "Inspect Achievements" tool is for.

 

/notsigned

 

lol so you didn't farm EV and KP in 4.0?

[masterceil]

lol so you didn't farm EV and KP in 4.0?

 

The point isn't about who did or didn't farm EV/KP, it's about why anyone cares. How would you or I farming EV/KP bring harm to the OP in any way?

 

To answer the question, though, no I didn't. I mostly just got 216s and 220s from doing a wide range of ops. Got a few 224s from highlighted EV/KP (and occasionally TFB or DP) when they came up a few times, but my guild and I didn't go out of our way to farm them.

[HiltoftheDragon]

This seems to take us down the path like the 224 loot basket of paradise I agree they should drop loot but not the same as other Veteran operations you can't compare EV/KP to them not even to Golden Fury or Monolith every other operation in this mode is so much more demanding not just in some DPS checks but mechanics and I think it sends the wrong message making players think since we can do EV or KP Veteran we can do Monolith or any other demanding boss that has a real veteran feel to it.

 

I cant even take this post seriously purely for the failure of proper punctuation.

[Red_rocks]

You seem to think ev/kp are going to drop the top end gear. They aren't. SM ops are going to all drop 236's. 242s will drop from all hm ops - and as a previous poster said, not even a complete set if you can only do ev/kp. You can get 248s in your master ops, so go do them and leave us scrubs to farm middle of the road gear that we need as a crutch to progress.

[Halinalle]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the "224 loot basket paradise"

 

It did lead to situation where "elite" players claimed that you need 224 gear to even attempt doing Blood Hunt HM.

[masterceil]

It did lead to situation where "elite" players claimed that you need 224 gear to even attempt doing Blood Hunt HM.

 

That's where you recognise them for their scrubbiness, laugh at them, and run the FP with people that aren't *******es. Absolutely no reason to artificially raise a barrier to gearing.

[Halinalle]

That's where you recognise them for their scrubbiness, laugh at them, and run the FP with people that aren't *******es. Absolutely no reason to artificially raise a barrier to gearing.

 

Are you seriously saying that Soa HM is similar to Revan HM in difficulty?

[masterceil]

Are you seriously saying that Soa HM is similar to Revan HM in difficulty?

 

Soa HM isn't even similar to Malaphor SM in difficulty, but that's not the point. Why does gear have to be intrinsically linked to the difficulty of the content with which you acquire it? If you want to do Revan HM to gear up, there's nothing stopping you. Why would you want to stop others from getting gear in EV/KP?

[PennyAnn]

I actually disagree with this.

 

I didn't like the the priority ops system in 4.0 but like it's proposed for 5.2 I am fine with this. EV and KP will drop tier 3 gear but it's not possible to get tier 4 gear there. They will have to pvp a lot or be lucky with crates to get tier 4 gear and I think that's fair enough.

 

I do no think that's realistic anymore today to make too much gear exclusive to hardcore raiders. That's a thing of the past that won't work for MMOs today much anymore in my view. At least not in the West.

 

Also I've noticed that EV and KP in HM are not push over ops anymore for pugs as they were in 4.0 before. Sure, for regular raiders who have a clue they're easy. But I've been in various groups recently (even some guild groups believe it or not) that struggled with the DPS on various bosses and that didn't happen that way in 4.0. I really think that good raiders shouldn't underestimate their skill in this context.

 

And where some people only have two operations (EV and KP) that they can manage, more hard core or dedicated raiders will have many more which means they will gain tier 4 gear much faster and reliably. So all in all I think this is the right balance.

 

This. To demand otherwise is also elitist nonsense. It does not "devalue" the other operations and claims that it does are just plain false.

[Soul_of_Flames]

Soa HM isn't even similar to Malaphor SM in difficulty, but that's not the point. Why does gear have to be intrinsically linked to the difficulty of the content with which you acquire it? If you want to do Revan HM to gear up, there's nothing stopping you. Why would you want to stop others from getting gear in EV/KP?

I agree with most of your points you have made. Except for this one.

 

EV/KP should most certainly drop gear. It should not, however, drop gear that is obtainable at harder difficulties in other ops though.

 

The issue isn't a matter of elitism in not wanting EV/KP to provide certain pieces. It's about the game's incentives for playing. For example, lets say EV HM dropped a piece of gear that was also obtainable from HM ToS. This creates a lowered incentive to do ToS. This, in terns, creates a lull in the pool of players willing to do ToS.

 

Let me put it another way: Back in 4.0, one of the hardest pieces of gear to get was the offhand token. It only dropped off final bosses, unlike other pieces which were pretty varied between EV and KP alone. Because of this scarcity, I ventured to do those operations that dropped the offhand more often than I would have had they not dropped that piece. In fact, I may not have even attempted to do them had any other easier fights dropped that piece.

 

So, no, it's not a matter of elitism. It's about the game's longevity and incentivizing players to try content out of the comfort zone.

[Tsillah]

This. To demand otherwise is also elitist nonsense. It does not "devalue" the other operations and claims that it does are just plain false.

 

The biggest problem we had with EV and KP HM was in 4.0. The operation was actually easier in 4.0 than it is now and rewarded the highest gear when tthey were the priority ops. This combination was the biggest mistake of 4.0 (aside from not bringing out new ops of course).

The mechanics are still the same of course but healing and dps'ing EV and KP HM definitely is more effort now than it was then. Still not hard for regular raiders but I see pugs wipe on bosses there now that I hadn't seen for quite a while. Teams with 230+ gear hitting enrage on the first boss in EV HM is still strange for me to see but it does happen.

 

The key is that EV and KP do not have a master mode which works out well actually. Therefore they won't drop the higher tier gear and that is fair. You can get tier 3 gear but not tier 4. Thats' reasonable. You can still get good gear but beating harder content can give you better gear still.

 

Agreed it's not perfectly balanced, but as a compromise I think it works.