100 new Galactic Command levels and exciting new gear rewards, on the way!

[lokimogor]

Well, unless they plan on leaving a 250% boost screw bioware

[TUXs]

Peddle your crap to someone who is dumb. PVE 'rs can't gear alts. 4.x my alts would be in a mixture of 216/220 gear right now. Most without set bonus, yes. 5.x they are all in 230 gear 3+ months later. Only now can they start to get the blue 240 enhancements passed on via legacy gear. No ear/implant relics tho, because I only get tank schematics in the crap crates.

 

5.x only play my main, can't even gear her at level and can't craft any armor/mods enhancements that I couldn't craft the first week 5.x dropped (starter gear). My alts have ZERO ZIP gear better than starter gear, and in the 5.x system my alts have ZERO ZIP chance to get better gear because 50 crates into Tier 3 on my main and I don't actually believe any purple set gear (or mh/offhand) exist. They certainly don't drop in crap crates.

No kidding lol. I geared up for PvP the day 4.0 dropped. Gear was never the deciding factor during 4.0.

[Khaleijo]

I'm actually surprised there is not more rage and angst over the poor quality of some of the set bonus for some classes, making them of marginal value (which if you are going to have set bonus, is not the way they should be deployed). But nope.. everyone appears to be focused on the perceived mandatory grind-train.

 

Why bother?

That never changed anything in the past.

There are many classes who had useless set bonus over the years. They could yell, rage, protest all they wanted, it wasn't changed until the next expansion if at all.

Just thinking about my agent healer... I kept the previous expansions set armorings for a whole new cycle because the new bonus was just awful.

 

BW doesn't listen to what the players want to have changed with the classes any more than they are listening to critisism about GC.

Even if it is a neutral well written post with numbers/simulations supporting the ideas.

Have you noticed that most of the theory crafters, who were really good at analyzing the classes strengths and weaknesses and concluding moderate changes for more balance out of that, have left ?

If you remember the class representatives project, where many really good ideas were formulated, often enough even better at keeping balance between specs and classes in mind, than what BW invented for expansions. Nothing came from it and the whole thing just went down, abandonned and forgotten like so many other things.

 

BW does what BW wants. Why bother giving precise feedback on this when years of feedback (the well written and not nerf/buff class X cries) went unheard?

[gabigool]

Peddle your crap to someone who is dumb. PVE 'rs can't gear alts. 4.x my alts would be in a mixture of 216/220 gear right now. Most without set bonus, yes. 5.x they are all in 230 gear 3+ months later. Only now can they start to get the blue 240 enhancements passed on via legacy gear. No ear/implant relics tho, because I only get tank schematics in the crap crates.

 

5.x only play my main, can't even gear her at level and can't craft any armor/mods enhancements that I couldn't craft the first week 5.x dropped (starter gear). My alts have ZERO ZIP gear better than starter gear, and in the 5.x system my alts have ZERO ZIP chance to get better gear because 50 crates into Tier 3 on my main and I don't actually believe any purple set gear (or mh/offhand) exist. They certainly don't drop in crap crates.

 

He's just being contrary. That's his thing. I have him on ignore, and only see when someone quotes him.

 

I've geared out via crafting as well. All 240, my whole team did. To do this on alts is not trivial. It's a lot of VMCs. A lot.

 

At the end of the day, all I am seeing is that the studio is doubling down on one of the worst, most unpopular decisions they've ever made. I've personally decided there is only one viable reaction left, and as such I've unsubscribed.

 

http://imgur.com/OY3cxwY

 

No point talking about it anymore. It was fun, for a long, long time. But it's just not fun anymore. /shrug

[Tsillah]

This is the same as any level cap increase though. At least they're giving content to grind for in 5.2 with Master Uprisings and Tyth.

 

I'm not a fan of these level cap raises to begin with. Particularly the last two level cap raises (KotFE and KotET) were completely pointless. It only creates an annoyance and an increasingly longer path to get from level 1 to endgame. The same is now happening within that endgame...an increasingly longer path with more gear tiers no doubt to add on top of an already convoluted gearing system with too many gear tiers within it.

 

THe mess just continues to grow really.

[Ryenke]

If you don't PvP you miss out on schematic rolls and VMC's, which is an issue for self-crafting mods. As a PvE-only player you'd be best served to pass down mods you don't need on your main to your alts instead, which in my experience happens often. Once your main reaches a point where it's 240 geared, which should happen at around the early 200 ranks, you can start transferring 240's to your alts as well. Take the command token boosts you get from bosses while playing your alts and use them on your main to get more 240 mods and get close to T4. You'll sometimes also get 240 gear schematics which use cheap conquest materials instead of VMC's, which are an excellent option for gearing alts.

 

I personally never RE'd a mod because I prefer using/handing them down and to get my schematics from PvP instead.

 

God, you don't even read what you reply to, do you. Your experience isn't worth crap to the next player who may have completely different luck.

 

And YOU are the one who claimed it was easier for PVE'ers to gear in 5.x. Now you say, well it is easier to gear for PVE'ers when they also pvp. LOL, more way to completely change your mind.

 

My main is level 230 ish. She has 0 240 pieces of set gear (or gear that can be RE'd). She just filled out the blue enhancements in her own set and is now filling up a legacy set with blue enhancements. Purple 240's? that could benefit a legacy: ZERO. One 234 set piece of gear (bracer, so no enhancements that could be RE'd) 4 pieces of 230 set pieces. Oh, I should be all geared up by mid 200 levels? GUESS AGAIN, your luck is worthless to determine how easy/hard it is for someone else to gear.

 

And 3+months after 2.x dropped, 3.x dropped, 4.x dropped my alts were in a mixture of purple/blue com gear with some lucky set drops. 3+months into 5.x they are all stuck (and will forever be stuck if my luck remained as is) at starter gear. It was MUCH EASIER to gear multiple toons via PVE pre 5.x. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap or has the best RNG ever.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Ryenke

[Andryah]

You being unable to see why this has caused more frustration than needed in your agree but disagree post as they add more grind to an already disliked and hated system as if it was somehow a good thing can only be explained in the way I phrased it.

 

Don't add more garbage to the garbage your gamers already dislike. It will never help.

 

Oh I completely see how it causes player frustrations and anger.. and have said so many times.

 

You can be victim to it, or you can treat it like many other things in MMOs... seek alternatives that get you what you need without feeling forced to follow the crumbs the studio puts in plain sight.

 

IF... IF.. the only way to get end game tier gear in 5.x was strictly GC leveling and opening crates.. you and I would be in complete agreement. But that is not the case if you open your eyes and invest in your alternative options.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Andryah

[ludoviccb]

The way I see Galactic Command gearing system is three piles of manure that someone dropped diamonds in it. 1st is 90 tons with small diamonds in it. The second is also 90 tons with medium sized diamonds in it, but some are flawed (234, since you can't upgrade it). The last one is 120 tons with extra tons comming one at a time when you finish that pile.

 

With 5.1, instead of scooping manure 1 bucket at a time, you now got a bucket 3.5 times the size of the original one. It doesn't change that you got to sort through tons of manure to get to those diamonds somewhere in the pile.

 

Now, they've announced that with 5.2, another 100 tons of manure is coming for you to sort.

[Ryenke]

He's just being contrary. That's his thing. I have him on ignore, and only see when someone quotes him.

 

I've geared out via crafting as well. All 240, my whole team did. To do this on alts is not trivial. It's a lot of VMCs. A lot.

 

At the end of the day, all I am seeing is that the studio is doubling down on one of the worst, most unpopular decisions they've ever made. I've personally decided there is only one viable reaction left, and as such I've unsubscribed.

 

http://imgur.com/OY3cxwY

 

No point talking about it anymore. It was fun, for a long, long time. But it's just not fun anymore. /shrug

 

You know what? thanks. Somehow your post gave me that closure I was needing.

 

Yeah, I was playing out my time till sub expired. Given my inability to get any set gear on my main in Tier 2 or 3 and BW announcement that they are going further down this grind go rng crap fest I'm not even going to do that.

 

I'm done. Done in game, and done here. BWA doesn't give a crap if players don't like GC grind + RNG. They are not going to make any meaningful changes to the 5.0 system, they are happy to stay the course. I've finally had those facts beaten into me and will find some other use for my $$ and time.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Ryenke

[teclado]

They had to use the word "exciting?" :facepalm: More like "demotivating."

[Andryah]

BW does what BW wants.

 

No disagreement. And as the owner of the game, that is their prerogative. We don't have to like it, but we do not own the game, we rent access to it "as is".

 

Why bother giving precise feedback on this when years of feedback (the well written and not nerf/buff class X cries) went unheard?

 

Except it's not as extremely absolute as you portray it.

 

Actually, there are many things we have in game today (that were missing at launch and afterwards) that are the direct result of player feedback.

 

But it is also true that some player feedback has NOT resulted in some things being done by the studio over the years.

 

I'm NOT defending their choices on GC implementation. Far from it. Anyone that actually reads my comments since 5.0 went live knows I think they released GC very poorly, and that they have been exceedingly slow and "in a bubble" about any improvements they have made. At the same time, there are ways to progress gearing effectively in 5.x without feeling enslaved to the choices of the studio with respect to GC implementation. It's an MMO.. MMOs by definition provide implementations and challenges that actually do require out of the box thinking by players sometimes. Stay in the box drawn by the studio if you wish.. but you are not serving your interests in doing so.

[yeldarbnotned]

230 is not the 208 equivalent, at least until 5.2 hits. Numerically it's equivalent to 212, and for drop-pools it's equivalent to 216.

 

From a practical stand point, this is absolutely false. Everything I do in 230s, from Master Flashpoints to Eternal Championship, takes more time to kill/complete than it did prior to 5.0 in my PVP 208 gear.

[Andryah]

He's just being contrary. That's his thing. I have him on ignore, and only see when someone quotes him.

 

I've geared out via crafting as well. All 240, my whole team did. To do this on alts is not trivial. It's a lot of VMCs. A lot.

 

At the end of the day, all I am seeing is that the studio is doubling down on one of the worst, most unpopular decisions they've ever made. I've personally decided there is only one viable reaction left, and as such I've unsubscribed.

 

http://imgur.com/OY3cxwY

 

No point talking about it anymore. It was fun, for a long, long time. But it's just not fun anymore. /shrug

 

You admit to taking exactly the same approach as I and others have to bypassing and ignoring GC grinding, and you accuse me of being "contrary". LMAO.

 

But yeah.. like you.. I freely admit I assessed (as did my guild) that GC was badly deployed and simply looked for alternate pathways.. and FOUND them.. just like you. But in your case it does not actually solve your core play need as expressed by you ---> New and challenging OPs on a regular basis. IF... IF GC crates was the only source for end game level gear in 5.x... I personally would have unsubscribed in November. Instead, I treated it as " a problem presented, and a challenge to go around it completely". Thankfully, it turns out they made the bypass to GC both reasonable and manageable for any enterprising player or group of players. In fact, not only did it inject new energy into crafting, it injected new energy into guilds actually working together to make crafting a leveraged team work endeavor for every member. But for the unguilded, random queuing player, crafting does not work as well for them, but they do have ready access to crafters if they want (either directly or via GTN sales).. so even they can overcome GC. Now, PvPers got the biggest shock to their play with 5.0 because they had become accustomed to gearing for PvP in a day or two.. and hence they had the biggest challenge to overcome, but even they can overcome if they choose to.. and bolster largely mitigated their immediate need for new gear.

 

And with respect...... honestly, I'm surprised you just now unsubscribed. Because you have been on a tirade for over a year about them ignoring OPs players (which is true), and yet you chose to double down and play 5.x anyway.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Andryah

[TUXs]

He's just being contrary. That's his thing. I have him on ignore, and only see when someone quotes him.

 

I've geared out via crafting as well. All 240, my whole team did. To do this on alts is not trivial. It's a lot of VMCs. A lot.

 

At the end of the day, all I am seeing is that the studio is doubling down on one of the worst, most unpopular decisions they've ever made. I've personally decided there is only one viable reaction left, and as such I've unsubscribed.

 

http://imgur.com/OY3cxwY

 

No point talking about it anymore. It was fun, for a long, long time. But it's just not fun anymore. /shrug

I'm very sorry to see you go

[Jesira]

.....

 

They really don't listen do they? They see how much people despise this system, so they make it easier for 10 minutes, and then add more to it? Tone deaf.

[Quraswren]

Oh I completely see how it causes player frustrations and anger.. and have said so many times.

 

SNIP....

 

Then for the love of whatever God you want, don't pretend gamers should somehow find some good merits in GC because bw added more garbage to an already garbage system they have been complaining about since it launched.

 

No matter how else you can get gear crafting. No matter the massive amount of PVP it takes to get gear. GC and RNG crates and grind is the problem. It's been the problem since launch and gamers have made sure bw knows this and even bw in a somewhat halfarse way acknowledged that.

 

Then they went and added 100 level of garbage onto an already hated system. No matter what you can do in the game to gear, every gamer suffers though the GC grind to some degree and that kind of poor game design and development gets hated on as it should and given the feedback it's no wonder gamers have come out of the woodwork to complain.

[Andryah]

Then for the love of whatever God you want, don't pretend gamers should somehow find some good merits in GC because bw added more garbage to an already garbage system they have been complaining about since it launched.

 

Um.. dude.. stop putting words in my mouth. I have never said GC was good, working as it should, or any other fantasy message you want to ascribe to me. It's actually pretty terrible as it currently stands, and there are little signs of it getting much better.

 

Which begs the question.. is it the only source for good gear for end game in 5.x? And the answer to that is no.... it's not. But gear access changes in MMOs can and do traumatize some MMO players.. regardless of the MMO... so.. yeah... some players bypass it and others choose to become victims of it.

 

In this thread, I simply pointed out that adding more levels to GC in no way made anything better or worse with respect to GC as a system. It is as bad today as it was in November as far as I am concerned. No more and no less.

 

More levels added indicates only one thing ---> they have no plans to scrap the system and revert to 4.x or 3.x, etc. But the actual additional levels in no way changes any of the dynamics of GC for players whatsoever... unless a player sees leveling GC as some form of completionist or mandatory game activity for the player. But I see little signs of any players leveling GC for the sake of leveling GC. Players chase it for the gear it might drop, rather then look for more deliberate channels that give higher assurance of a player getting what is useful and wanted by them.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Batwer]

This is what BW thinks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSsj4jjbgks

 

This is what we think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

 

.........

 

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Eli_Porter]

And YOU are the one who claimed it was easier for PVE'ers to gear in 5.x. Now you say, well it is easier to gear for PVE'ers when they also pvp. LOL, more way to completely change your mind.

 

I said it's easier to gear for PvE, not that it's easier for PvE'ers to gear. Big difference.

 

My main is level 230 ish. She has 0 240 pieces of set gear (or gear that can be RE'd). She just filled out the blue enhancements in her own set and is now filling up a legacy set with blue enhancements. Purple 240's? that could benefit a legacy: ZERO. One 234 set piece of gear (bracer, so no enhancements that could be RE'd) 4 pieces of 230 set pieces. Oh, I should be all geared up by mid 200 levels? GUESS AGAIN, your luck is worthless to determine how easy/hard it is for someone else to gear.

 

So what I'm getting from this is that you're trashing the 240 blue A-mods? I don't think they're that much worse than non-blue 234's, but I could definitely be wrong about that. I never said you should be geared up by mid-200 levels, just that you can start passing down mods at mid-200's.

 

And 3+months after 2.x dropped, 3.x dropped, 4.x dropped my alts were in a mixture of purple/blue com gear with some lucky set drops. 3+months into 5.x they are all stuck (and will forever be stuck if my luck remained as is) at starter gear. It was MUCH EASIER to gear multiple toons via PVE pre 5.x. Anyone who says otherwise is full of crap or has the best RNG ever.

 

For me, my main was in a mixture of 220-216 with only one 216 set armoring. My alts were all 204 pvp geared. I'm having a lot more success in 5.x across multiple chars and that's without the upcoming UC changes.

[casirabit]

Quraswren;9250100]I think that works for a rare few because most of the content we have is extremely old. Enjoyment probably no longer comes from running 2-5 year old content so much as it does the rewards you get or simply playing with friends. I'd wager the content is quite stale for most of the SWTOR gamers by now. Not everyone but most.

 

What little new content we did get is so shallow it barely worth repeating. Combine that with how CXP turned the game into "what can you do to get the most CXP for your in game time" and well your idea starts to fall apart for many. A least that how I see it. I don't doubt some do things at a snails pace but I don't think many follow that route.

 

 

 

I have been here since launch and there are still things I haven't done and when you are doing things with people you like playing with it doesn't become that much of a problem. It actually is fun when you are doing things together with people you like being with.

 

I come from SWG and we didn't have half the flashpoints and operations we have here but still were able to find enjoyment playing a game. I stopped playing for 2 months because I was getting frustrated because I forgot the one thing this is a game and I will not be pushed into doing things I don't like. I will not pvp just because it may give more CXP. When I do that it no longer becomes a game but something I have to do. I will always do what I like and I can still do groups and operations with no problems.

[Andryah]

For me, my main was in a mixture of 220-216 with only one 216 set armoring. My alts were all 204 pvp geared. I'm having a lot more success in 5.x across multiple chars and that's without the upcoming UC changes.

 

Yeah... after they finally did the crafting update in 4.x My main settled in to essentially full 220s, and my alts were all in 212s, save one. Today, in 5.x, my main and two alts are now in full 240s+augments, and my other many alts are all in 228-234s-with full augments (there is simply no reason to expend more effort or resources for these alts). 5.x was definitely faster for me, and I credit a group effort in our guild to work the crafting channel of gearing rather then GC for doing this much faster in 5.x. Now, as I GC levels come from just doing what I want to do in game, I do sometimes get something that is a modes upgrade and when I do I use it. But mostly I just disintegrate the items from crates which just moves the GC level along a bit further.

 

I do enjoy being able to ignore GC unless/until such time as the studio realizes they fouled it up massively and make needed changes to make it match what they said it would be before launch.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Andryah

[casirabit]

Because I like to PvP and fighting people with gear 10 levels above me puts me at an obvious disadvantage. I also like to help players in PuGs, where having good gear lets me help pick up the slack of more casual players, without having to call anyone out for not doing what they need to do.

 

We take people through things without calling people out with the gear I have right now so I don't feel like I am at a disadvantage and neither is my boyfriend. We have always helped people when do pugs. We do a flashpoint last week with another guild member and we got one other person and did the flashpoint and helped them.

 

So I am not sure how you would feel at a disadvantage. I didn't and I am a healer and when I don't heal right believe me I hear about it.

[Eli_Porter]

I'm not a fan of these level cap raises to begin with. Particularly the last two level cap raises (KotFE and KotET) were completely pointless. It only creates an annoyance and an increasingly longer path to get from level 1 to endgame. The same is now happening within that endgame...an increasingly longer path with more gear tiers no doubt to add on top of an already convoluted gearing system with too many gear tiers within it.

 

The mess just continues to grow really.

 

I think they were expecting people to treat new content (chapters, uprisings) and re-incentivized content (GSF, PvP) as a sufficient reason to reach T3 gear without it being considered a grind, and rather more of a reward. Which obviously didn't turn out the way they hoped.

 

The point of these level-cap/gear-cap increases in MMO's is basically "there's fun stuff we want you to spend your time on, here's your incentive to get into it".

[Andryah]

I think they were expecting people to treat new content (chapters, uprisings) and re-incentivized content (GSF, PvP) as a sufficient reason to reach T3 gear without it being considered a grind, and rather more of a reward. Which obviously didn't turn out the way they hoped.

 

The point of these level-cap/gear-cap increases in MMO's is basically "there's fun stuff we want you to spend your time on, here's your incentive to get into it".

 

Tsillah does have a point about this mindless upping of levels in every expac that is common in MMOs. But this is the thing.. it's a common methodology in MMOs... and has been for years. I really don't see it changing in the genre. Even TSW, which pretended to be "levelless" was following a pretty hefty leveling curve (though in a different manner then just vertical levels).. and as such was a big disappointment in my view.

 

At the end of the day... leveling in one form or another IS core to digital games, be they single player or MMO. It's isn't going anywhere... probably because players are accustomed to it and there is no clear better approach to emerge yet.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Eli_Porter]

From a practical stand point, this is absolutely false. Everything I do in 230s, from Master Flashpoints to Eternal Championship, takes more time to kill/complete than it did prior to 5.0 in my PVP 208 gear.

 

Not experiencing this with Master Flashpoints and this is the first time I hear of it being more difficult. But I did hear a lot of complaints about Eternal Championship.