Credit Inflation is crazy!

[Reeny]

Just got back into the game after maybe a year plus (stopped at chapter 10).

 

omg..the credit inflation for every single item is crazy!

1 mil cant get u anything decent nowadays... lol

[lymphangioma]

Welcome back from your little hiatus there buddy. Anyhow, the in-game economy / GTN has definitely seen its fair share of inflation issues over the last few years or so. In fact, it only seems to be getting worse with time... for the most part. Either that, or many of these stingy sellers are somehow under the assumption that they can charge outlandish prices for everything - although, I highly doubt many of these items are even selling for what they ask.

 

Whatever the case may be, a discerning individual can still find plenty of fair (heck, even "good") prices if so inclined, and the GTN has a peculiar way of somehow balancing the market to a more reasonable level, even despite the constant fluctuation from day-to-day. Whenever a particular item is offensively high-priced, simply waiting for a few days can ultimately turn the odds in your favor.

 

Heck, I still recall when Cartel Packs were selling for a paltry 200-500k max - when nowadays, you can hardly purchase a Chance Cube for 500k.

Edited February 26, 2017 by lymphangioma

[Theeko]

Yeah and most of the mounts used to be 2-5m now nearly 100m

[Darkside]

Please know that the majority of super high price items don't actually sell, ever. The huge price jump started with the last credit exploit that was pumping billions of credits into the game. Everyone began selling everything for insane prices cause the value of the credits had plummeted so hard during the month that Bioware didn't do anything. Well Bioware finally stepped in and banned accounts, fixed the exploits, and they also removed the billions of credits from each server.

 

Sure people got through by sly credit laundering, but Bio did a good job getting most of them, so there was not enough remaining credits to support the massive inflation. However, since then, the effect you are seeing is where some are still thinking in the inflationary mindset, and they list their items well out of the realm of being purchased. Other sellers then come along and are too afraid to list much lower than the perceived market price for fear they are shooting themselves in the foot profit wise. So what winds up happening is that these sellers are having to list and relist their items multiple times for weeks and even months without so much as a chance at selling the item. The result is that their greed and ignorance keep prices retarded, so don't fall for, or into the trap.

[americanaussie]

The greed levels are high.

[Khaleg]

I have only around 1 billion, I can't confirm this issue. 😀

[americanaussie]

I have only around 1 billion, I can't confirm this issue. 😀

 

Care to share? Lol can't blame a girl for trying. 😀

[IstariZen]

People posting things for high prices has nothing to do with greed at this point.

 

Things are posted for high amounts relative to what other things are selling for. No one is going to buy a hypercrate and post the packs for 500k, when someone else is selling something for that person wants for 100m.

 

The prices are high, get used to it. Things may drop into reason in some ways, but dont expect things to drop to prices they used to be. The whole economy stabilized at this insane inflation level. People refusing to become a part of that are probably only hurting themselves.

 

Oh and it all sells, since all of the expensive stuff is actually in line with each other.

Edited February 26, 2017 by IstariZen

[JediRelentless]

People posting things for high prices has nothing to do with greed at this point.

 

Yeah right.

[Edyn]

I'm fairly certain this type of inflation is an inevitable result of allowing players to purchase items with RL money (crates, other CM items, etc.) and sell them on the GTN for credits. It's basically just buying credits and using the GTN as a middle man.

 

Some people have a TON of credits for several reasons: either being long time players, straight up farmers, people who play the GTN or buy stuff off the CC with $ and sell it for credits, etc. Then, there's people like me, who casually do content that doesn't net a lot of credits (alts, vanilla Exploration Missions, Flashpoints, etc.) and really don't make a lot of credits very quickly at all.

 

I've just resigned myself to the fact that if I want to get a ton of credits to buy all the stuff that I want, such as Stronghold decor, vanity armors and weapons, etc. I'm either going to have to start buying stuff with my CC's and reselling them on the GTN or switch to content that I don't enjoy doing... which I won't do, of course, this isn't a job.

 

Personally, I just miss the good ole' days when I could subscribe to a game and have the ability to acquire all items through game content, especially Missions, Flashpoints drops (which actually there and then were removed) or even fun Easter eggs. Unfortunately, this requires some thought and implementation on BW's end. My only options now are to buy the items I want off the GTN that someone else had previously bought from the CM or buy a crate and see if might I get what I want. For me, this whole concept gives the game a really cheap feeling - a lack of depth and reward - simply no Star Wars fantasy, no immersion, no adventure, no sense of achievement, just "buy item with money." But, if that's what players really want, then... /shrug

Edited February 26, 2017 by Edyn

[masterceil]

Please know that the majority of super high price items don't actually sell, ever.

 

Except that they do. Those Unstable sabers really do sell for 50mil or more, with some frequency. I loaned a guildie 15mil so he could grab a 70mil floating chair off the GTN - he paid me back the next day. Another guildie of mine was recently frustrated that the mount they wanted for 245mil sold shortly before he could gather the funds.

 

The prices are high because people will pay them. If you don't have the credits to do so, don't hate the players, hate the game

[DrDaMoZ]

Except that they do. Those Unstable sabers really do sell for 50mil or more, with some frequency. I loaned a guildie 15mil so he could grab a 70mil floating chair off the GTN - he paid me back the next day. Another guildie of mine was recently frustrated that the mount they wanted for 245mil sold shortly before he could gather the funds.

 

The prices are high because people will pay them. If you don't have the credits to do so, don't hate the players, hate the game

 

Having 2 rich buddies is far from proof that the majority agrees with or can even afford these prices. Not a single F2P or Preferred player can ever afford those things in the first place without spending so many cartel coins on escrow transfers that they might as well subscribe instead. Thus the majority of players can't even afford it before even thinking about actually buying one and those who hypothetically can still need to have the actual funds or the desire to own one. And then there is the fact that if there is only a single listing of a certain item the seller can be as greedy as they want and whatever sucker is the biggest SW fan or SWTOR addict will buy it eventually. I've seen this tactic many times, a filthy rich player buying up all the listings of a certain item and then reselling them one at a time at an absurd markup because he or she owns all the things. And without any other alternatives to gain these items in game or any competition on the GTN this leaves people without choice if they ever want to own that item. Especially on low population servers.

So yeaaaaaaah, i'll have to disagree with you on this.

[masterceil]

So yeaaaaaaah, i'll have to disagree with you on this.

 

Disagree all you like, it doesn't make you right. Dude specifically said high-priced items "don't sell, ever". He didn't say "they usually don't sell", or "only rich subs can buy them" - he said "don't sell, ever". That was the claim I set out to disprove, which I did.

 

The economy doesn't - and shouldn't - revolve around F2P or preferred players. You want to give the game a trial run? That's what F2P's for. You won't get - and shouldn't expect - all the shinies in the game while giving nothing back to its financial requirements. You fall on hard times and your sub lapses? Sorry about you, but you should have other priorities than buying black/black dye in a game. You unsub because BW gave you a "slap in the face"? Even less pity from me, there...

 

Subs are the fiscal lifeblood of the game, and it's these players with their nigh-unlimited credit caps (I am aware there is a hardcap, but exceedingly few have reached it) that control the economy. As long as there is even one player with an exotic item to sell for eight- to ten-figures and one player that is willing to pay eight- to ten-figures to acquire it, that item will sell for eight- to ten-figures, whether you like it or not.

 

Items in the 50-200mil range sell all the time. I provided anecdotes about two people that I personally know. I've also personally sold an unstable arbiter's dualsaber for 35mil a month or so after they came out, and those go for considerably less than the single-bladed variety. I also regularly sell single pieces of armour for 5-10mil, and have sold some full sets for 30mil+. I've also invested 50mil of my own credits in my guild's initial flagship purchases when we came to Ebon Hawk (I funded half of each ship). Rich players make major purchases all the time.

 

Like it or not, there are mega-multimillionaires and even billionaires in this game, and they are willing and able to pay a premium for the exceedingly rare items that they like. Czerka Crate-o-matics, I understand, tend to fly off the shelf as soon as one's posted for a paltry 250mil. Same for rare sets of armour like the overrated Revan crap.

 

Don't be mad cuz whales be stylin' on you

[Udoroththefinal]

I think you guys are missing one of the key issues

 

Biowares changes to heroics of replacing crystals with credits pumped even more credits into an already inflated economy

 

 

Running just the DK/Coruscant heroics gives me 100-130K and on 8 toons makes me about a mil all toghter

 

 

Credits are just every easy to come by atm so ofc inflation occurs

[Darkside]

Except that they do. Those Unstable sabers really do sell for 50mil or more, with some frequency. I loaned a guildie 15mil so he could grab a 70mil floating chair off the GTN - he paid me back the next day. Another guildie of mine was recently frustrated that the mount they wanted for 245mil sold shortly before he could gather the funds.

 

The prices are high because people will pay them. If you don't have the credits to do so, don't hate the players, hate the game

 

An item being de-listed doesn't mean it sold. And yes, I would argue that 50 is on the high end of things that still sell. Getting much beyond 50mil will take weeks to months to sell, and items listed from 75-500Mil+ rarely, if ever, sell.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Darkside

[Darkside]

Disagree all you like, it doesn't make you right. Dude specifically said high-priced items "don't sell, ever". He didn't say "they usually don't sell", or "only rich subs can buy them" - he said "don't sell, ever". That was the claim I set out to disprove, which I did.

 

The economy doesn't - and shouldn't - revolve around F2P or preferred players. You want to give the game a trial run? That's what F2P's for. You won't get - and shouldn't expect - all the shinies in the game while giving nothing back to its financial requirements. You fall on hard times and your sub lapses? Sorry about you, but you should have other priorities than buying black/black dye in a game. You unsub because BW gave you a "slap in the face"? Even less pity from me, there...

 

Subs are the fiscal lifeblood of the game, and it's these players with their nigh-unlimited credit caps (I am aware there is a hardcap, but exceedingly few have reached it) that control the economy. As long as there is even one player with an exotic item to sell for eight- to ten-figures and one player that is willing to pay eight- to ten-figures to acquire it, that item will sell for eight- to ten-figures, whether you like it or not.

 

Items in the 50-200mil range sell all the time. I provided anecdotes about two people that I personally know. I've also personally sold an unstable arbiter's dualsaber for 35mil a month or so after they came out, and those go for considerably less than the single-bladed variety. I also regularly sell single pieces of armour for 5-10mil, and have sold some full sets for 30mil+. I've also invested 50mil of my own credits in my guild's initial flagship purchases when we came to Ebon Hawk (I funded half of each ship). Rich players make major purchases all the time.

 

Like it or not, there are mega-multimillionaires and even billionaires in this game, and they are willing and able to pay a premium for the exceedingly rare items that they like. Czerka Crate-o-matics, I understand, tend to fly off the shelf as soon as one's posted for a paltry 250mil. Same for rare sets of armour like the overrated Revan crap.

 

Don't be mad cuz whales be stylin' on you

 

I've not seen this. I see the same few listed by the same sellers from 250+ week after week. Sitting there being relisted. I even see them dip down to 100mil with no movement. Also, having multi-millionaires and billionaires in game doesn't mean squat. Unless they pump their money into the economy then those credits essentially don't exist. Also understand that those rich players don't need most items as they usually have them already. Plus there are not enough of those big time players to support high-end priced sustained sales.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Darkside

[Andryah]

I'm fairly certain this type of inflation is an inevitable result of allowing players to purchase items with RL money (crates, other CM items, etc.) and sell them on the GTN for credits. It's basically just buying credits and using the GTN as a middle man.

 

 

For the umpteen-millionth time..... CM items being sold or traded in game DOES NOT ADD CREDITS TO THE ECONOMY. It simply moves credits from one players pocket to another players pocket.. while extracting 6% of the sale price from the economy in the process. So the CM is actually slightly deflationary in effect as it withdraws credits from the game for every sale between players on the GTN.

 

It is a good leverage for a new player to quickly accumulate a few million credits quickly by buying one or more CM items and reselling them in game... but again.. that adds no new credits to the economy.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I think you guys are missing one of the key issues

 

Biowares changes to heroics of replacing crystals with credits pumped even more credits into an already inflated economy

 

 

Running just the DK/Coruscant heroics gives me 100-130K and on 8 toons makes me about a mil all toghter

 

 

Credits are just every easy to come by atm so ofc inflation occurs

 

^^ exactly. The game has shifted to being more credit rich in it's rewards since 4.0 released. That is actually a good thing for newer players as the game has been transformed so that the new player onramp for many things, from leveling, to easy access to equipment, to easy flow of credits helps new players largely catch up with multi-year veteran players quickly. That's a good thing if you want to draw new blood into a game, or even returning players.

 

As to this claim of inflation..... it's largely wrong. Why? Because there are two economies in the game now days... the commodity market AND the collectors market. The commodity market covers everything a player actually needs to be functional and effective in game. The collectors market is more rarified in that it serves a different segment of the player base ---> the wealthy collectors. They collect and use the rarest of rare vanity items that enter the player economy via resale of super rare and highly desired CM items (most often those from cartel packs).

 

People like to fixate on the small and wealthy collectors market as their platform for complaining about inflation. What they are really complaining about is that they lack the wealth to play in the collectors market.. which is completely on them. This MMO is one of easiest to develop and apply a personal wealth accumulation model.

 

Reality is ----> the commodity market serves about 95% of player needs in this game and if anything it sees more deflationary pressures (due to player competition in the economy) then any actual inflation. Even the bronze and silver items from the CM are generally cheap and easily available for reasonable prices until long after they have been embargoed.

 

Players that want to complain about inflation of prices need to get real. And wealth sitting in players pockets, unspent = more credit supply potential, but the reality is most wealthy players sit on most of their credits, rather then spend them, hence they do not actually drive inflation. There is a reason wealthy players in game are wealthy ---> they always spend less then they earn.. no matter what eye candy may pass in front of them.

 

TL;DR: it is the commodities end of the market that you watch for signs of inflation, NOT the high end collectors market, which has little real impact to player economies.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Andryah

[JattaGin]

I used to put items on the GTN for fair prices, because it's the right thing to do. It's just a game. Unfortunately, what happened was that the items were always immediately bought by whales who apparently have nothing better to do than skimming the market all day long. They bought the item and relisted them for the same ridiculous price as before within the minute, trying to screw over honest customers. That's when I realised that the only ones benefiting from offering something for a fair price are the whales as they get even whalier. So I stopped doing that and ask for the same amount of credits than they do. I never sold anything for those crazy sums though. Eventually I just put the stuffz into storage and forget about it. And then some people who post here think that the item got sold. They don't.

 

I also don't enjoy playing with so big sums. The Crate-o-matic goes for 1 billion on The Progenitor at the moment. Well, it doesn't sell of course. But even if I would have 5 billion credits, I wouldn't spend 1 billion of that on one single item. It's just stupid in my opinion.

[Edyn]

 

For the umpteen-millionth time..... CM items being sold or traded in game DOES NOT ADD CREDITS TO THE ECONOMY..

 

I absolutely believe that items being bought on the CM and sold on the GTN flood the economy with credits, and I say this in comparison to the pre-cash shop days. Why? CM exclusivity. These items cannot be obtained anywhere but the CM and new, desirable items simply aren't added to ingame content because then they'd undermine the CM, which would impact BW's pocketbook.

 

There are players out there who don't have the RL money for more than a sub for this game, but do have time to farm/play the GTN for credits; however, I daresay a lot of those players would rather do ingame content (Missions, FPs, Ops, PvP, GSF, etc.) to obtain these new, desirable items, but that option is not available to them because the items are CM exclusive. Therefore, if the CM exclusive items were no longer exclusive and made available via actual content, particularly new content, I think you'd see some people actually running content for items directly rather than simply farming credits that end up flooding the economy.

 

I'm not saying this is the right answer from BW's perspective, as adding new content and putting all of the CM items in it wouldn't make sense because like I said, it would hit their pocketbook in that there's CM buyers out there who will stop forking over RL cash and just go run the content for the items. I'm just saying that if the CM items were also available via content, you would see more people running the content rather than putting credits into the economy for them.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Edyn

[Theeko]

Except that they do. Those Unstable sabers really do sell for 50mil or more, with some frequency. I loaned a guildie 15mil so he could grab a 70mil floating chair off the GTN - he paid me back the next day. Another guildie of mine was recently frustrated that the mount they wanted for 245mil sold shortly before he could gather the funds.

 

The prices are high because people will pay them. If you don't have the credits to do so, don't hate the players, hate the game

 

Dang 245m for one mount? I have all mounts besides 4, and have never spent above 20m on each glad no inflation back then

Edited February 26, 2017 by Theeko

[AscendingSky]

Overly high listing prices on some super rare items aside, inflation has definitely occurred on my server (Ebon Hawk). The problem is, inflation was inevitable and unavoidable. Why? Because the virtual economy of the game does not limit in any way how many new credits can be generated out of the ether. Every time you complete a mission, new credits are generated and put into the economy. Every time you farm a slicing box, new credits are generated and put into the economy. So of course the actual 'value' of a credit would go down over time, as people naturally accumulate more and more credits just by playing the game.

 

Sure, the various credit/item duping exploits that have gone on in the past definitely increased the rate of inflation, as do bots farming Slicing nodes/Treasure Hunting missions. That said, inflation was bound to happen regardless. There simply aren't any sufficiently taxing and ongoing credit sinks to take enough fake money out of the virtual economy to prevent it.

Edited February 26, 2017 by AscendingSky

[masterceil]

I absolutely believe that items being bought on the CM and sold on the GTN flood the economy with credits, and I say this in comparison to the pre-cash shop days.

 

The GTN does not generate credits. It moves 94% of them, and outright deletes 6% from the economy. An item selling for 50mil on the GTN actually removes 3,000,000 credits from the economy. The buyer spent 50mil, but only 47mil went to the seller.

 

Playing the GTN does not generate credits, and cannot "flood the economy" with credits. It certainly moves them around, and in higher volumes than in the days of yore. But it's actual gameplay (like heroics and warzones) that "flood the economy" with credits.

 

People playing the game is what causes inflation. The prices on the GTN are an effect of that fact, not the cause.

[Theeko]

Dupes / Bots cause inflation Edited February 26, 2017 by Theeko

[Edyn]

The GTN does not generate credits. It moves 94% of them, and outright deletes 6% from the economy. An item selling for 50mil on the GTN actually removes 3,000,000 credits from the economy. The buyer spent 50mil, but only 47mil went to the seller.

 

Playing the GTN does not generate credits, and cannot "flood the economy" with credits. It certainly moves them around, and in higher volumes than in the days of yore. But it's actual gameplay (like heroics and warzones) that "flood the economy" with credits.

 

People playing the game is what causes inflation. The prices on the GTN are an effect of that fact, not the cause.

 

I understand what you're saying. The scenario I want to talk about is someone who wants a CM exclusive item decides to get the credits via gameplay to buy it on the GTN, thus putting new gameplay-generated credits in the economy directly because of the CM, which is why I think the CM directly impacts the ingame economy: CM exclusive items.

 

If there was an alternative avenue to obtain those CM exclusive items directly via gameplay, some players would choose do that instead. I think this would result in less game-generated credits being put into the market because some players are now spending only their time and effort to get the item they want rather than spending time and effort to get the credits to get the item they want. This alternate avenue is really just your traditional MMO staples (complete long, in-depth quest line/raid to get awesome item, grind rep for item, kill boss for item, etc.)

Edited February 26, 2017 by Edyn