Wayshuba Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) This is my last sub day, so one of my last posts. To further elaborate on what I said earlier in this thread, it is simply people moving on. As of this past Saturday, our entire guild cancelled their subs and bought the game and sub time in ESO instead. Simply stated, no one wanted to stick around while BWA insists on implementing a system that makes a GAME a chore. To most in our guild, it is like they either don't care about paying customers or their blind determination to make something work that many warned them would cost them a lot of subs just doesn't matter to them. Ironically, today Zenimax announced now 8.5 million players have purchased ESO. Because of their model, it is unclear how many are actually subs, but what is enlightening is that they gained 1.5 million more players in just nine months (they announced 7 million in June last year). I bring this up not to pump up ESO, but to draw a parallel of a game that got off to a rocky start and then simply implemented the changes the players wanted (One Tamriel) and then put out new content on a regular basis. The game is two years old and already has had 6 updates in that time and an expansion (a real one, not the water down SWTOR ones) coming in June with a further two updates coming after that. Imagine what SWTOR would be today if BWA had taken the same approach - listening to their customers. Funny, in the starting towns (which are swamped with people) their is a LOT of discussion from people who are new and just came from SWTOR. So, I guess the biggest ones happy with the GC System is Zenimax, since they seem to be picking up a lot of ex-SWTOR players including my entire guild. I may be wrong in this, but when BWA promised the EA execs they were implementing a new system to keep subs longer and increase revenue - I think EA expected that revenue instead of having it go to a competitor. At least they can make the claim that the GC System did a good job increasing revenue and subs for Zenimax and, most likely, Square Enix as well. Edited February 14, 2017 by Wayshuba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) This is my last sub day, so one of my last posts. To further elaborate on what I said earlier in this thread, it is simply people moving on. As of this past Saturday, or entire guild cancelled their subs and bought the game and sub time in ESO instead. Simply stated, no one wanted to stick around while BWA insists on implementing a system that makes a GAME a chore. To most in our guild, it is like they either don't care about paying customers or their blind determination to make something work that many warned them would cost them a lot of subs just doesn't matter to them. Ironically, today Zenimax announced now 8.5 players have purchased ESO. Because of their model, it is unclear how many are actually subs, but what is enlightening is that they gained 1.5 million more players in just nine months (they announced 7 million in June last year). I bring this up not to pump up ESO, but to draw a parallel of a game that got off to a rocky start and then simply implemented the changes the players wanted (One Tamriel) and then put out new content on a regular basis. The game is two years old and already has had 6 updates in that time and an expansion (a real one, not the water down SWTOR ones) coming in June with a further two updates coming after that. Funny, in the starting towns (which are swamped with people) their is a LOT of discussion from people who are new and just came from SWTOR. So, I guess the biggest ones happy with the GC System is Zenimax, since they seem to be picking up a lot of ex-SWTOR players including my entire guild. I may be wrong in this, but when BWA promised the EA execs they were implementing a new system to keep subs longer and increase revenue - I think EA expected that revenue instead of having it go to a competitor. At least they can make the claim that the GC System did a good job increasing revenue and subs for Zenimax and, most likely, Square Enix as well. Square Enix is already getting more revenue from me (I've started a FFXIV account) and I'm tempted to try out ESO as well to see if I like it better. I prefer to just do one MMO at a time, but right now I'm putting out feelers to see where I want to go to flee the final sinking of the TORtanic. Honestly, at this rate I'm expecting EA to announce the closure of this game by late this year/early next year. So I prefer to hedge my bets and get established somewhere else in anticipation of that. As for the upcoming Mass Effect Andromeda... I was looking forward to it, but after EAWare's behavior over the past year and change, I find I have little interest in giving them any more money. I'm definitely not pre-ordering it or buying it at launch; I'll wait for a sale price on the inevitable Ultimate Edition with all the inevitable DLC EAWare will shove in there to milk more people of cash. So congratulations EAWare... you've turned a loyal customer and fan of the BioWare brand for about 15 years now into someone who views you with contempt and disgust, who no longer wants to buy your products. I hope protecting Ben Irving's fragile ego has been worth it. Edited February 14, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Fewer and fewer players does that to the forums...same reason there was ONE player in instance 2 of Harbinger Pub fleet last night at 7pm central time...ONE person...153 in the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNORTH Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 So what fame is everyone moving too? I played WOW from 2004 to 2012 - am not going back to that game. I know MEA hits in March. So that will keep me busy for a month or two (I hope - it's a BW games so who knows). Is ESO it now? I am headed to Camelot Unchained... and not looking back heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I'm actually just back from a ........ vacation Hah, me too. For something incredibly trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargrith Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 You can only point out what's broken and be ignored so much, eventually you just give up. i.e. crates full of crap. I think you hit the nail squarely here. They simply have been ignoring people so long I am guessing they see no reason to keep trying. Many have simply let their sub pass on by, some few of us have decided the devs wont listen, never have listen, and its time to stop trying because clearly they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Not leaving, but finally stopped arguing. People make up their minds and that is something you can't change. I will not be going to a non-Star Wars game. I have 2 games I play, this one and SWG (nge version) so will keep doing it. I have learned when you play one game consistently you will get bored so give yourself a little break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Maybe some folks have realized that no matter how often they spam um complain on the forums, they figured out it will do no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cagthehack Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Well, downloading ESO now. I am a huge TES fan. And have over 3k hours into Skyrim (1/2 of that is modding). I tried playing ESO when it first hit, but it was trash. Now I've heard things are much much better. I'm sad though. I LOVED this game. Really. I've done every class at least twice (light and dark). I even liked KOTFE and liked the story of KOTET (I did not like the game mechanics of some of the quests: the mouse or walkers were not fun). And now, after almost 6 years I'm leaving. I'm leaving for three reasons: RNG, PVP, and (the biggest reason) lack of new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNORTH Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Well, downloading ESO now. I am a huge TES fan. And have over 3k hours into Skyrim (1/2 of that is modding). I tried playing ESO when it first hit, but it was trash. Now I've heard things are much much better. I'm sad though. I LOVED this game. Really. I've done every class at least twice (light and dark). I even liked KOTFE and liked the story of KOTET (I did not like the game mechanics of some of the quests: the mouse or walkers were not fun). And now, after almost 6 years I'm leaving. I'm leaving for three reasons: RNG, PVP, and (the biggest reason) lack of new content. you can always RP.. then content never gets old or boring or what not.. even if RPing alone is your thing.. /derp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Bit of a break at the moment, but putting much time into Borderlands 2 and more occasionally, Defiance, plus Witcher 3 (if they bloody well get that render-stutter fixed, then I'd be burying myself in it, the world is just perfectly done, in terms of what I want out of real immersion in a real RPG --IE, something SJW-Ware hasn't made in a long, long time.). Oh, and Skyrim, WatchDogs, and FarCry 2 (among others) are on my to-play list, so... ... Basically too busy to have a lot of craps to give here, even if I had many left to give for the sad joke that BioWare has become since approximately 2012. Mass Effect: Andromeda will be their very last kick at the cat with me, and...Well, my hopes are very high, but it's really looking less and less good with every new piece of information I find on ME: A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkside Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Why are the forums so dead? The "Devs", that's why. Edited February 15, 2017 by Darkside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Why are the forums so dead? The "Devs", that's why. We're too Excited over the results of The Hunt to be able to post coherently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemdancer Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Square Enix is already getting more revenue from me (I've started a FFXIV account) and I'm tempted to try out ESO as well to see if I like it better. I prefer to just do one MMO at a time, but right now I'm putting out feelers to see where I want to go to flee the final sinking of the TORtanic. Honestly, at this rate I'm expecting EA to announce the closure of this game by late this year/early next year. So I prefer to hedge my bets and get established somewhere else in anticipation of that. As for the upcoming Mass Effect Andromeda... I was looking forward to it, but after EAWare's behavior over the past year and change, I find I have little interest in giving them any more money. I'm definitely not pre-ordering it or buying it at launch; I'll wait for a sale price on the inevitable Ultimate Edition with all the inevitable DLC EAWare will shove in there to milk more people of cash. So congratulations EAWare... you've turned a loyal customer and fan of the BioWare brand for about 15 years now into someone who views you with contempt and disgust, who no longer wants to buy your products. I hope protecting Ben Irving's fragile ego has been worth it. Probably why Tait left EA, he saw the writing on the wall. You have to wonder if people on the team are even listened to by Ben or Charles. I know I would be extremely frustrated and look for other work in that circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 you can always RP.. then content never gets old or boring or what not.. even if RPing alone is your thing.. /derp RP and decorating are literally the only reasons I'm still playing this game at all. And I can do both without a subscription, which means those days are numbered. It's sad, really. I also loved this game. I wouldn't have stayed continuously subscribed for five years if I didn't love this game. Now the actual game feels more like a chore than anything else. A form of entertainment shouldn't leave you frustrated and saddened and feeling like you wasted your time, but that's how the New Gambling Experience makes me feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendingSky Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Probably why Tait left EA, he saw the writing on the wall. You have to wonder if people on the team are even listened to by Ben or Charles. I know I would be extremely frustrated and look for other work in that circumstance. Yeah, I flat out told Tait on his goodbye thread that I didn't blame him for leaving. Better to leave at a time of his choosing and on his own terms rather than being kicked out the door when EAWare shuts down. I don't wonder; I'm rather convinced Ben and Charles don't listen. If they did, they wouldn't persist in acting like Galactic Command is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hell, they wouldn't have instituted the New Gambling Experience in the first place when Musco and Tait transmitted the massive protest of "No, we don't want RNG gearing" that happened on the forums from the day the notion of the Disintegration Crates was announced. Either their ego has deafened them to all criticism, or they don't want to admit to their EA corporate overlords how badly they've screwed up so they're lying to them as much as they are to us so they can keep their jobs. Edited February 15, 2017 by AscendingSky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemdancer Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Yeah, I flat out told Tait on his goodbye thread that I didn't blame him for leaving. Better to leave at a time of his choosing and on his own terms rather than being kicked out the door when EAWare shuts down. I don't wonder; I'm rather convinced Ben and Charles don't listen. If they did, they wouldn't persist in acting like Galactic Command is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Hell, they wouldn't have instituted the New Gambling Experience in the first place when Musco and Tait transmitted the massive protest of "No, we don't want RNG gearing" that happened on the forums from the day the notion of the Disintegration Crates was announced. Either their ego has deafened them to all criticism, or they don't want to admit to their EA corporate overlords how badly they've screwed up so they're lying to them as much as they are to us so they can keep their jobs. Someone should see if they can get hold of some Email addresses for higher up EA decision making people and then link every thread about how we hate this system, of how many people unsubbing, how the servers have died and then link all of those stupid responses or lack of from them, especially in the live feeds. I wonder how long Ben and Charles would be left in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
light_senshi Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Maybe some folks have realized that no matter how often they spam um complain on the forums, they figured out it will do no good. When you realize that they're not going to listen to what you have to say, you speak with the only thing they seem to care about. Your wallet....and you taking your money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McHondy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Easy all those that tried to voice a opinion has left, and with no sub you can't post here. And those that has left don't care anymore For me this Disintegration Crate race has turned this from my main MMO to 1 I log into 2 times a week to do guild raids..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayshuba Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 When you realize that they're not going to listen to what you have to say, you speak with the only thing they seem to care about. Your wallet....and you taking your money elsewhere. I don't even think they care about that. Someone has made the decision on the GC system and, even if the game goes down in a flaming heap as a result, they are not going to change direction. Someone has a vested corporate interest in trying to make this work and, whoever it is, this is not going to change or be fixed until that person is removed from their position (and I am not saying fired, just taken away from the decision making over SWTOR). Unfortunately, by that time I think the damage is going to be so great that EA will just make the decision to shut it down rather than try and salvage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkside Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 We're too Excited over the results of The Hunt to be able to post coherently. Haha, you're right. It's even better than cross server! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaticFringer Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Heh, this feels like a loaded discussion piece for sure. While I do agree that the SWTOR community can be toxic at times... there are some other factors involved meow. In this case... Silence may not be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Silence may not be a good thing. There's been discussion elsewhere that the silence has been forced. Read that in what way you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) From a pragmatic perspective, in reality..... most gaming forums are largely populated with complaints, complainers, and negative rhetoric about the game in question. It's by no means unique to this game in any way. Some forums also leave plenty of room for positive comments and more engaging topics about the game... but this forum in particular seems to go out of it's way to squelch such topics. So? So... after the umpteenth regurgitation of the same complaints, by the same players or other players that agree with them...... they eventually either have an epiphany and realize that you play a digital game on the studios design terms, or you don't play. In other words.... people eventually realize that prosecuting a game with negative narratives every day in the games forum does not actually get them what they want and they either adapt or move on to something that is more suited to their needs/wants. Honestly... every possible complaint about SWTOR has already been litigated to death in the forum. That includes GC and Cxp, even though we have yet another rehashed narrative against them this morning. Providing suggestions, ideas, constructive feedback to the studio is good, and I encourage it. But most of what takes place in the forum here is NOT one of these... but rather just desperate attempts to demand the game be tuned to a particular players wants/needs, or just venting for the sake of venting. And then we have players who like to pile on and stoke the flames and encourage frustrated people to vent and amplify their frustrations. Further for the most part, the "disaffected" will do their best to try to stomp all over any neutral or positive thread or post about the game in this forum. And they seem to need/crave getting others to agree with them and "build a mob to storm the castle". They are also notable for being very defensive about any opinions that are contrary to theirs and will quickly resort to personal attacks as a defense mechanism. TL;DR those that hate the game have either largely moved on to something else, or have embraced the fact that it is a game and not some Greek Tragedy and are simply playing it "as is" and still enjoying it. Most other players will figure out how to work with what they have, and work around limitations or features they do not like... because they realize a game is for fun and getting medieval over it is silly and not even good for their own personal well being. Edited February 15, 2017 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cagthehack Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Mass Effect: Andromeda will be their very last kick at the cat with me, and...Well, my hopes are very high, but it's really looking less and less good with every new piece of information I find on ME: A. ^^^^ MEA is BW's last chance. If they **** that up they are dead. DAI didn't do them any favors. The characters/relationships were fun but the game mechanics and RNG (yes they had RNG in DAI - a single player game) and useless side quests killed that game for me. And many others. My hopes are high with MEA. Cause I'm a huge ME fan. But I don't have much faith in BW anymore. Edited February 15, 2017 by cagthehack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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