My Post Stream Thoughts

[MisterAych]

First and foremost, the word "Operations" was delivered upon. Interesting, although it doesn't seem to be plural, but sounds promising.

 

You guys keep saying that you want to "keep Galactic Command fun for players." GALACTIC COMMAND IS NOT FUN FOR PLAYERS.

 

You made a system and said 1 hour of playtime for 1 level of GC, which was mostly true at the beginning. however the thought process of WHY, from a sales perspective is where I'm going to try to go.

 

300 hours of gameplay to reach top level should mean that you get the "average" player to sub for 20 more weeks -- this progression system is PURELY to lock in subs that want to progress their gear.

 

While a post-level-cap system may seem attractive to players, GRINDING for gear is absurd. End game gear should be a reward you earn by playing the harder content. An RNG box should not determine if I'm going to be able to down that next boss this week.

 

You said something about not wanting to bring back weekly passes. I'm guessing that you have a boatload of former subs that could readily buy weekly passes with their olf monthly grants and keep playing for another 5 years. --That's ultimately why passes were taken away. No new content (in terms of Operations) led to more and more players using the game that way -- I know I and others in my raid group considered it (one member actually bought a bunch a few days before you removed them from the game with no warning).

 

So you've implemented a system to keep subs (which i'm sure worked out well to your bottom line, right?), and you have a community in uproar about gearing and command ranks and RNG boxe. Meanwhile some are staying subbed just so they can keep getting rewarded for playing..

 

You nerfed enemy kills because someone hit cap via that method 3 days in, and you continued to nerf any area that had farmability despite having said GC about playing the "way you want to." GC is purely about keeping people subbed.

 

Now... uprisings and ops...

 

My personal thoughts is that there needs to be an actual in-game progression system -- Flashpoints and dailies to get starter gear followed by HM flashpoints and ops to get mid-tier, and then HM ops to get BiS gear (you could even argue that another tier could be attainable for Nightmare mode).

 

I like the idea of a boss releasing as it's finished, and I've even been saying that amongst my ops group.

 

Obviously Uprisings are the new FPs, ok, fine. So Dailies > Uprisings > HM Uprising / Operations > HM Ops / Nim Ups

 

A progression system like that would be wonderful. Many other successful MMOs have had systems like that.

 

But you still seem to be lacking content, and I'm certain that comes from either budget or lack of devs (or both).

 

1 operation over a year is hardly an attractive outlook.

 

Overall, I don't think I can see light at the end of the SWTOR tunnel anymore.

[IstariZen]

While a post-level-cap system may seem attractive to players, GRINDING for gear is absurd. End game gear should be a reward you earn by playing the harder content. An RNG box should not determine if I'm going to be able to down that next boss this week.

 

What I truly do not get about this logic, is that how is clearing a OP any different? People spend entire years grinding out PVP or clearing raids in other games. The amount of time that is invested to achieve BiS gear in some games is astronomical. This is no different, except that you can play whatever content you want. OP bosses still drop gear and pvp speeds up getting gear as well. Solo play is the only one that would take a long time and this is the first game that I have seen solo players being awarded BiS after doing the full grind.

 

The logic behind the whole grinding for gear is absurd... is absurd. Every RPG ever has been like that. Every MMO is exactly like that. This one just diversified your options more than any other game. PVP in WOW for instance is a very long grind to BiS pvp gear and just for beginner pvp gear it has always been a long grind. idk, maybe im misunderstanding something with all of the complaints I am reading... but if anything this system is far preferable to any MMO I have ever played. It makes me wonder if any of you guys have played an MMORPG before SWTOR and possibly just dont understand how they work. If you had everything you wanted right away, you would be bored and feel very unrewarded. It doesnt make any sense to me.

[DanNV]

What I truly do not get about this logic, is that how is clearing a OP any different? People spend entire years grinding out PVP or clearing raids in other games. The amount of time that is invested to achieve BiS gear in some games is astronomical. This is no different, except that you can play whatever content you want. OP bosses still drop gear and pvp speeds up getting gear as well. Solo play is the only one that would take a long time and this is the first game that I have seen solo players being awarded BiS after doing the full grind.

 

Seriously? You don't get it even though it's been explained over and over and over and... The problem is the RNG. Before we could grind for a coupel of months and get a tier of gear then move on to the harder content and grind on that until we'd figured out each boss. Now we have to pray RNG gives us pieces we need so we can try to get to the next boss. We don't care of solo players can get BiS gear. But we need gear to actually play the content we want to play. If you don't have the gear, you can't beat enrage timers, heal checks, DPS checks, etc.

 

You seem to think people want BiS right away. That isn't what anyone asked for. The stupid RNG grind of GC means that after a year or more of a couple night a week, you still may not even have a 6 piece set bonus. What we want is what we had, a clear path to getting better gear to take on harder content. We don't have that. Not in a reasonable time. So, we're done. We're not paying subs, we're not financially supporting the game. We're not paying BW until they fix the game so we can play the content we want to play. They screwed over the Ops players and now the PvP players too.

[IstariZen]

Seriously? You don't get it even though it's been explained over and over and over and... The problem is the RNG. Before we could grind for a coupel of months and get a tier of gear then move on to the harder content and grind on that until we'd figured out each boss. Now we have to pray RNG gives us pieces we need so we can try to get to the next boss. We don't care of solo players can get BiS gear. But we need gear to actually play the content we want to play. If you don't have the gear, you can't beat enrage timers, heal checks, DPS checks, etc.

 

You seem to think people want BiS right away. That isn't what anyone asked for. The stupid RNG grind of GC means that after a year or more of a couple night a week, you still may not even have a 6 piece set bonus. What we want is what we had, a clear path to getting better gear to take on harder content. We don't have that. Not in a reasonable time. So, we're done. We're not paying subs, we're not financially supporting the game. We're not paying BW until they fix the game so we can play the content we want to play. They screwed over the Ops players and now the PvP players too.

 

 

Are you aware of the 5.1 changes? Where OPs bosses drop tokens for the gear? Or that you can buy specific pieces by playing pvp? Pure RNG is only an issue for people that run the easier MMO content (heroic quest/fps/uprisings, [hopefully master uprisings drop a token]).

 

The only thing I think they could change to improve things, is by reducing the cost of Tier 1. The CXP and the PVP cost, but only T1. T3 is BiS.

 

Everything else is not different in anything other than presentation. RNG is in every MMO. Atleast you have options here.

Edited January 26, 2017 by IstariZen

[AscendingSky]

Seriously? You don't get it even though it's been explained over and over and over and... The problem is the RNG. Before we could grind for a coupel of months and get a tier of gear then move on to the harder content and grind on that until we'd figured out each boss. Now we have to pray RNG gives us pieces we need so we can try to get to the next boss. We don't care of solo players can get BiS gear. But we need gear to actually play the content we want to play. If you don't have the gear, you can't beat enrage timers, heal checks, DPS checks, etc.

 

You seem to think people want BiS right away. That isn't what anyone asked for. The stupid RNG grind of GC means that after a year or more of a couple night a week, you still may not even have a 6 piece set bonus. What we want is what we had, a clear path to getting better gear to take on harder content. We don't have that. Not in a reasonable time. So, we're done. We're not paying subs, we're not financially supporting the game. We're not paying BW until they fix the game so we can play the content we want to play. They screwed over the Ops players and now the PvP players too.

 

He doesn't get it and he is never going to get it. He is a white knight setting up strawmen and ignoring the actual arguments and logic of those he disagrees with. I've given up trying to talk sense into him.

[IstariZen]

He doesn't get it and he is never going to get it. He is a white knight setting up strawmen and ignoring the actual arguments and logic of those he disagrees with. I've given up trying to talk sense into him.

 

There is zero logic behind you guys. I cringe reading most of these post. Im not a white knight or a strawman, I have just played enough MMOs and RPGs to understand how they work. You guys just want instant gratification for free.

 

You have #remove RNG as a signature. RNG is a staple of most MMO's and RPGs. It sucks to be on the bad end of RNG, but its also fun to be on the good end of it. Its everywhere, not matter what game you end up playing you will be dealing with it.

 

What I do not get though, is the whole its not good enough attitude. No matter how much they respond correctly.

Edited January 26, 2017 by IstariZen

[AscendingSky]

There is zero logic behind you guys. I cringe reading most of these post. Im not a white knight or a strawman, I have just played enough MMOs and RPGs to understand how they work. You guys just want instant gratification for free.

 

You have #remove RNG as a signature. RNG is a staple of most MMO's and RPGs. It sucks to be on the bad end of RNG, but its also fun to be on the good end of it. Its everywhere, not matter what game you end up playing you will be dealing with it.

 

Literally no one, NO ONE, on these forums is asking for instant gratification for free. NOT A SINGLE PERSON. Again, you are setting up old, smelly, abused strawmen instead of actually addressing points of logic. That is why I call you a white knight, because that is exactly what white knights do.

Edited January 26, 2017 by AscendingSky

[IstariZen]

Literally no one, NO ONE, on these forums is asking for instant gratification for free. NOT A SINGLE PERSON. Again, you are setting up old, smelly, abused strawmen instead of actually addressing points of logic. That is why I call you a white knight, because that is exactly what white knights do.

 

Dude I am pretty sure you dont even know what you are talking about anymore. You just dont like the game, good for you. I do like the game. Disagreeing with you earns me insults though. So I will say: You are so *** backwards and hypocritical and what is truly wrong with this game.

 

People that post, proper critical assessments of the game actually help improve it. They are true fans and I appreciate what they do. They want to improve it. You are nothing like those players. You are the person who goes to the forum for the dramatic I quit post.

Edited January 26, 2017 by IstariZen

[AscendingSky]

Dude I am pretty sure you dont even know what you are talking about anymore. You just dont like the game, good for you. I do like the game. Disagreeing with you earns me insults though. So I will say: You are so *** backwards and hypocritical and what is truly wrong with this game.

 

People that post, proper critical assessments of the game actually help improve it. They are true fans and I appreciate what they do. They want to improve it. You are nothing like those players. You are the person who goes to the forum for the dramatic I quit post.

 

Please point to one single post that I or anyone else on this forum has made that is demanding instant gratification for free. One single post. Because that is your argument, that that's all I'm saying. Prove it.

 

I'm waiting.

[Methylium]

Dude I am pretty sure you dont even know what you are talking about anymore. You just dont like the game, good for you. I do like the game. Disagreeing with you earns me insults though. So I will say: You are so *** backwards and hypocritical and what is truly wrong with this game.

 

People that post, proper critical assessments of the game actually help improve it. They are true fans and I appreciate what they do. They want to improve it. You are nothing like those players. You are the person who goes to the forum for the dramatic I quit post.

 

Finally, someone here with enough knowledge about MMOs. Thought no one would understand that RNG was/is/will always be a part of MMOs and certain games.

[gabigool]

There is zero logic behind you guys. I cringe reading most of these post. Im not a white knight or a strawman, I have just played enough MMOs and RPGs to understand how they work. You guys just want instant gratification for free.

 

You have #remove RNG as a signature. RNG is a staple of most MMO's and RPGs. It sucks to be on the bad end of RNG, but its also fun to be on the good end of it. Its everywhere, not matter what game you end up playing you will be dealing with it.

 

What I do not get though, is the whole its not good enough attitude. No matter how much they respond correctly.

 

It's a matter of relativity.

 

Other games' systems are meaningless in this game. So leave them out of it.

 

In this game, the ability to quickly and (relatively) easily gear up alts made the dearth of content tolerable. That is no longer the case. To most players I know, nothing is "fun" about RNG when your ability to effectively participate in content - especially group content - is gated behind it.

 

WoW has RNG, sure, but you're not running Molten Core for gear now, are you?

 

In this game, to have RNG added serves no purpose other than to dilute enjoyment. I'm not sure this game has the luxury of being quite so cavalier with how much its players enjoy their in-game time.

[DanNV]

He doesn't get it and he is never going to get it. He is a white knight setting up strawmen and ignoring the actual arguments and logic of those he disagrees with. I've given up trying to talk sense into him.

 

He's not worth the time to argue with. He's got his straw man and that's all he sees.

 

He and others are afraid enough of us will leave that EA will pull the plug. It is a real possibility. BW can prevent it, if they act fast, but at the rate they're going, good luck getting any sort of endgame queue to pop. It just isn't going to happen. Times are already longer than they were last week or three weeks ago or 2 months ago. Game populations are down year over year and the only people to blame are the devs, not those of us who have had enough but took the time to tell them why we were unhappy.

Edited January 27, 2017 by DanNV

[IstariZen]

edit: deleted Edited January 27, 2017 by IstariZen

[Ryenke]

He's not worth the time to argue with. He's got his straw man and that's all he sees.

 

He and others are afraid enough of us will leave that EA will pull the plug. It is a real possibility. BW can prevent it, if they act fast, but at the rate they're going, good luck getting any sort of endgame queue to pop. It just isn't going to happen. Times are already longer than they were last week or three weeks ago or 2 months ago. Game populations are down year over year and the only people to blame are the devs, not those of us who have had enough but took the time to tell them why we were unhappy.

 

I'm not sure BWA can prevent it. I was probably the exact type of player today's livestream should have engaged. Instead, my sub will lapse in February and I'm going to let it. One boss of an op is nice, a new daily area is nice, but RNG - especially RNG + this grind is just flat out broken for me.

 

So, I'll wait. See what people say about this new content, but honestly, a couple of months is a long time. Don't know if I'll be interested by then.

 

I get they want to keep galactic command, but they continue to ignore that a very large group of us want the RNG gear grind gone. Galactic command is fine, unobjectionable. The problem is the reward crates.

 

As a casual raider on my healers, and formerly non raiding casual player on dps toons, 5.1 did nothing to help my situation. And I've heard "monitor the situation' 'look into it' and 'give us your suggestions and feedback' for far too long with literally no result at all (5.1 is quite frankly a joke unless you are in a big guild, even then, the time necessary to progress in gear, lol).

 

Glad BWA is giving folks a new op and daily area. It is a small move in a good direction. I'll try to 'monitor the situation, look into any future grind/rng changes' but no promises to ever sub again.

[Wayshuba]

Finally, someone here with enough knowledge about MMOs. Thought no one would understand that RNG was/is/will always be a part of MMOs and certain games.

 

Yes, RNG is part of most MMOs. I have yet to find an MMO with RNG, however, that gives as much complete garbage as these Command Crates. This is the BIGGEST point of contention with the system and not only will they not fix it, they refuse to even acknowledge it. Ben is the Producer on this title. When the subs keep flying out the door, Ben, and Ben alone, can accept responsibility for the further decline in revenue.

 

I have played A LOT of MMOs. From my experience, this is the absolute WORST gearing system ever implemented in an MMO ever.

 

Judging by the panic mode with the boys in Austin. It may actually be finally sinking in to their thick skulls that it may indeed be the case as well. But I still don't think it is going to be fast enough for the exodus of players happening now.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Wayshuba

[TUXs]

It's a matter of relativity.

 

Other games' systems are meaningless in this game. So leave them out of it.

 

In this game, the ability to quickly and (relatively) easily gear up alts made the dearth of content tolerable. That is no longer the case. To most players I know, nothing is "fun" about RNG when your ability to effectively participate in content - especially group content - is gated behind it.

 

WoW has RNG, sure, but you're not running Molten Core for gear now, are you?

 

In this game, to have RNG added serves no purpose other than to dilute enjoyment. I'm not sure this game has the luxury of being quite so cavalier with how much its players enjoy their in-game time.

Perfectly said Gabigool!!!

[Genada]

He's not worth the time to argue with. He's got his straw man and that's all he sees.

 

He and others are afraid enough of us will leave that EA will pull the plug. It is a real possibility. BW can prevent it, if they act fast, but at the rate they're going, good luck getting any sort of endgame queue to pop. It just isn't going to happen. Times are already longer than they were last week or three weeks ago or 2 months ago. Game populations are down year over year and the only people to blame are the devs, not those of us who have had enough but took the time to tell them why we were unhappy.

 

What they want to do is try to stop players like me. Players that have figured out it's a scam calling this game a mmo and that sub for a single month, view the new expansion and leave again.

 

You can play all the new content of ENTIRE expansions in a single month. Every other real mmo has content updates, patches that are adding new content in a timely manner. They add more content in patch updates then this game does for entire expansions.

 

This new op, this is a joke. Only a abused player base accepts this. One boss every couple of months? Really? Are you kidding me? This is the best EA/Bioware can do? What. A. Joke.

 

This game has gone from being something that could compete with WoW to being the butt of jokes within in the mmo community.

[biffmasterr]

Problem I have is.......Wait for it a long list of things.

1. Two instances has killed any WPVP. all the snowflake players hide on the PVE instance.. makes it VERY hard to have World pvp.

 

2. Bring back the adaptive armor venders , no reason you had to take them away. It gave us more options to outfit our Character. Oh wait I know you wanted us to spend money to get outfits. Never mind I see why you took it from us.

 

3. Command crates are just a way to keep you sub'd like they stated earlier.

 

4 Command crates drop garbage. I have enough Jawa scrap part/metal to build a sand crawler. I make companions gifts I don't want them for my hard work tryn to build my gear.

 

5. For the love of god merge Jung Ma finally. Nobody is left on it . you are just penalizing us players who have build up so much on it . Strong holds guild ships and guild strong holds. I may have missed it but please tell me why you keep it going.

 

6. Make Command crates class specific and let us pick the piece we want (Like PVP used to be)

Or I can tell you you will continue to loose players.

 

7. read the forums like you mean it and this game depends on it. you live streams are like the Democrats you have lost touch with your community. you act like this new thing coming out is so great . while the community bashes it. and you just keep going its great so exciting...

[Wayshuba]

What they want to do is try to stop players like me. Players that have figured out it's a scam calling this game a mmo and that sub for a single month, view the new expansion and leave again.

 

You can play all the new content of ENTIRE expansions in a single month. Every other real mmo has content updates, patches that are adding new content in a timely manner. They add more content in patch updates then this game does for entire expansions.

 

This new op, this is a joke. Only a abused player base accepts this. One boss every couple of months? Really? Are you kidding me? This is the best EA/Bioware can do? What. A. Joke.

 

This game has gone from being something that could compete with WoW to being the butt of jokes within in the mmo community.

 

Good post. Just wanted to clarify one thing though. You mention playing through the content in a single month, I think you might have meant to say a single weekend - of casual play.

[Genada]

Good post. Just wanted to clarify one thing though. You mention playing through the content in a single month, I think you might have meant to say a single weekend - of casual play.

 

 

Well your right but they do not offer a sub for a week or I would do that. They got you on the month. So I play the new chapters, do whatever else they may have put in and gone again.

 

For 15 bucks, this game's expansions (dlc) is worth it but just barely.

 

I would think about playing the game more if it had some real end game content and if the free to play model wasn't so horrible. I would pay for a sub and keep it if this game didn't fail so hard at providing content updates.

[Vember]

What I truly do not get about this logic, is that how is clearing a OP any different? People spend entire years grinding out PVP or clearing raids in other games. The amount of time that is invested to achieve BiS gear in some games is astronomical. This is no different, except that you can play whatever content you want. OP bosses still drop gear and pvp speeds up getting gear as well. Solo play is the only one that would take a long time and this is the first game that I have seen solo players being awarded BiS after doing the full grind.

 

The logic behind the whole grinding for gear is absurd... is absurd. Every RPG ever has been like that. Every MMO is exactly like that. This one just diversified your options more than any other game. PVP in WOW for instance is a very long grind to BiS pvp gear and just for beginner pvp gear it has always been a long grind. idk, maybe im misunderstanding something with all of the complaints I am reading... but if anything this system is far preferable to any MMO I have ever played. It makes me wonder if any of you guys have played an MMORPG before SWTOR and possibly just dont understand how they work. If you had everything you wanted right away, you would be bored and feel very unrewarded. It doesnt make any sense to me.

 

You are absolutely correct. Couldn't agree more.

[Quraswren]

It's a matter of relativity.

 

Other games' systems are meaningless in this game. So leave them out of it.

 

In this game, the ability to quickly and (relatively) easily gear up alts made the dearth of content tolerable. That is no longer the case. To most players I know, nothing is "fun" about RNG when your ability to effectively participate in content - especially group content - is gated behind it.

 

WoW has RNG, sure, but you're not running Molten Core for gear now, are you?

 

In this game, to have RNG added serves no purpose other than to dilute enjoyment. I'm not sure this game has the luxury of being quite so cavalier with how much its players enjoy their in-game time.

 

Well said. Nicely put.

[Wayshuba]

It's a matter of relativity.

 

Other games' systems are meaningless in this game. So leave them out of it.

 

In this game, the ability to quickly and (relatively) easily gear up alts made the dearth of content tolerable. That is no longer the case. To most players I know, nothing is "fun" about RNG when your ability to effectively participate in content - especially group content - is gated behind it.

 

WoW has RNG, sure, but you're not running Molten Core for gear now, are you?

 

In this game, to have RNG added serves no purpose other than to dilute enjoyment. I'm not sure this game has the luxury of being quite so cavalier with how much its players enjoy their in-game time.

 

Very interesting choice of words. I will refer you to this post to see what your thoughts would be:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9223296#post9223296