So we're getting a new operation....but you're unlocking each boss during the year?

[Vember]

All this talk of FF14...what's the very first post i see on their general discussion forums?

 

If time spent and paying a sub is all it takes to get the best rewards the game has to offer then why are they even rng based why not just give them away like we get a free company chocobo? Is it really that hard to accept that you didnt deserve something in a video game?

 

In a thread titled "Why is Game Entitlement a Thing and people think they deserve everything in game"

 

Hmmm... doesn't that sound familiar.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vember

[mmmbuddah]

All this talk of FF14...what's the very first post i see on their general discussion forums?

 

 

 

In a thread titled "Why is Game Entitlement a Thing and people think they deserve everything in game"

 

Hmmm... doesn't that sound familiar.

 

Posting something without context doesnt explain anything. It just confuses people.

[Vember]

Posting something without context doesnt explain anything. It just confuses people.

 

It's pretty clear, actually. People in every mmo complain about not having the best gear available to them immediately. There are several here, in this game, posting about it daily.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vember

[Threjyan]

A great story ( OH NO YOU HAVE TO READ! ) Fun pvp, small group dungeons, large group dungeons. All of which is addressed every content update. So yeah. You GET something for your sub. Not excuses.

 

 

the main reasosn most players dont go there because: even more cartonish then SW, and there is no sabers.

 

and reading is hard..at least for me..voice acting is prime experience tbh..i only read tool tips sorry

[Andryah]

 

I literally just started with FF 14, and I am maxbe 5 minutes in and am ALREADY ultra impressed. Yeah they dont have voice acting, but at least the game is available in more than 3 languages. Not to mention 6 million subscribers, and datacenters in the EU, US and JAPAN.

 

Always love it when people get their facts wrong while trying to impress other players to follow them to some other MMO.

 

The last published data said they had 6 million accounts created since launch.... not active subs. Sounds about right actually, and shows that they too have a retention problem when compared to their active sub numbers. But all MMOs have retention problems now days.. so no surprise.

 

Their active sub base as last disclosed is ~ 300K in North America, 150K in Japan, and 50K elsewhere. A respectable level for any MMO.. but nowhere near the 6million fiction you just dropped here.

[Shwarzchild]

Unfortunately, it seems some people are too far gone when it comes to SWTOR. And, that's fair. Bioware has earned that treatment for what they've done in 4.0 and 5.0. No matter what steps they take to get back won't be enough for some. Again, that's what Bioware has earned. So I don't judge the people who are so down on the game. I am happy with what's coming. I understand that the budget isn't large. I look for specific things and take mental notes on them. Had they continued down the path of KOTFE and KOTET I would have let my subscription lapse instead of renew it after yesterday (for one month at a time since that's what I feel bioware has earned. They don't get a recurring subscription again...yet...but I do feel they are back moving in the right direction).

 

Now, the quality will be in question of course. If the quality of the operation boss is poor, or the daily area is dull and lacks durability then the subscription gets cancelled again. If it's like Oricon or Section X great. If it's like Ziost full stop no.

 

If they don't follow through on their quick comment of hitting gsf and pvp along with completing this operation then full stop.

 

If they don't provide information on how they are going to tweak Galactic Command further by the end of next week as they said they would then full stop. If their ideas on tweaking are bogus full stop.

 

If they can't keep up with the cadence they've outlined in the short term and then in the long term then full stop.

 

They still have a ways to go, obviously, but at least I see them moving in a positive direction again.

[Andryah]

the main reasosn most players dont go there because: even more cartonish then SW, and there is no sabers.

 

and reading is hard..at least for me..voice acting is prime experience tbh..i only read tool tips sorry

 

I don't mind the game not having lightsabers.... but there is a great deal about the games style and mechanics that I do not like and I'm not driven their by needing lots of raids either. I've tried it twice now and found it disappointing both times.

 

If you are a raid-or-die player... it's probably one of the top few choices in the market right now... but not all players are raid-or-die.

 

In the end... it is just as themepark as any other MMO.... with it's only real strong point being their raid content pace for those that really only like to raid.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Quraswren]

It's pretty clear, actually. People in every mmo complain about not having the best gear available to them immediately. There are several here, in this game, posting about it daily.

 

And there is where you misrepresent things.

 

IT's not about immediate. It's about the vast amount of time you can put in and get nothing through the RNG. It's about the vast amount of time you can put in through OPS and still get nothing because the first bosses have such a little chance to drop gear even for the effort.

 

If you are lucky enough to get a group that can clear something besides EV and KP, sure you have a chance at gear like before but that massively decreased chance on one boss per OPS is a bit screwed up when it comes to gearing.

 

Combine that with the massive amount of time it takes to get gear in PVP and that made even longer should to happen to get a lsoing group and well things just get worse.

 

It's not about getting gear now or immediately. It's about the massive amount of time need that has resulted in piss poor design and development of RNG along with the terrible PVP option if you PVP at all.

 

I'm sure you know that but continue to miss the point anyway.

[Andryah]

Unfortunately, it seems some people are too far gone when it comes to SWTOR. And, that's fair. Bioware has earned that treatment for what they've done in 4.0 and 5.0. No matter what steps they take to get back won't be enough for some. Again, that's what Bioware has earned. So I don't judge the people who are so down on the game. I am happy with what's coming.

 

I largely agree, though I don't fully blame the studio for this mindset (though the studios actions are a causative trigger in some of the more drastic reactions, the reactions are owned by the player). Many players of MMOs have grown accustomed to being very negative and pejorative about any MMO they play once any form of disappointment is realized. And the disappointment threshold is pretty low for some players. A game is always about what players make of what is offered. Different players are more, or less, tolerant of a studios decisions and commitment to an MMO.. which is fine.... but there is shared blame here.... like just about anything else about any game every produced by a studio.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[Vember]

And there is where you misrepresent things.

 

IT's not about immediate. It's about the vast amount of time you can put in and get nothing through the RNG. It's about the vast amount of time you can put in through OPS and still get nothing because the first bosses have such a little chance to drop gear even for the effort.

 

If you are lucky enough to get a group that can clear something besides EV and KP, sure you have a chance at gear like before but that massively decreased chance on one boss per OPS is a bit screwed up when it comes to gearing.

 

Combine that with the massive amount of time it takes to get gear in PVP and that made even longer should to happen to get a lsoing group and well things just get worse.

 

It's not about getting gear now or immediately. It's about the massive amount of time need that has resulted in piss poor design and development of RNG along with the terrible PVP option if you PVP at all.

 

I'm sure you know that but continue to miss the point anyway.

 

And that's been changed with 5.1. Yet you're still complaining. They're not going back to the loot pinata, so what do you want? What will make you stop complaining?

 

Go try WoW's pvp gear grind or ESO's endgame grind, so you can have some frame of reference. Or hell, ANY Korean mmo. BDO, Archage...SWTOR's endgame gearing is friggin great by comparison.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vember

[mmmbuddah]

Always love it when people get their facts wrong while trying to impress other players to follow them to some other MMO.

 

The last published data said they had 6 million accounts created since launch.... not active subs. Sounds about right actually, and shows that they too have a retention problem when compared to their active sub numbers. But all MMOs have retention problems now days.. so no surprise.

 

Their active sub base as last disclosed is ~ 300K in North America, 150K in Japan, and 50K elsewhere. A respectable level for any MMO.. but nowhere near the 6million fiction you just dropped here.

 

If my facts are wrong, then post data to prove otherwise. Just saying its wrong doesnt make it wrong. Not saying I dont believe you. But I just started and the starting area is flooded with people still. And the fact that they can hold the game afloat with a sub only system speaks pretty much for itself.

Edited January 27, 2017 by mmmbuddah

[DarthWoad]

I largely agree, though I don't fully blame the studio for this mindset (though the studios actions are a causative trigger in some of the more drastic reactions, the reactions are owned by the player). Many players of MMOs have grown accustomed to being very negative and pejorative about any MMO they play once any form of disappointment is realized. And the disappointment threshold is pretty low for some players. A game is always about what players make of what is offered. Different players are more, or less, tolerant of a studios decisions and commitment to an MMO.. which is fine.... but there is shared blame here.... like just about anything else about any game every produced by a studio.

 

Of course Andryah I expected you to blame the players for this.

 

But these players are paying a subscription, so they are fully justified to be upset with the service and quality of content they are getting. Period.

 

So actually, It's full the studios fault for this mindset, as they can't seem to deliver content to make players happy.

 

Unless of course, you're talking about those small minority of players who get absolutely angry and demand things for no reason...they're in every MMO and every game. I'm sure we've gone over this. But then again, we do get players who defend the game and the developers with their life and attack and blame the problems on other players for the lack of MMO content Bioware brings out, which are equally as bad.

Edited January 27, 2017 by DarthWoad

[Lionflash]

 

Lot of talk and not a lot of showing in that video. FF14's got pretty poor storytelling compared. Silent protagonists and text based story? I'd have fun with it while the novelty of it being new lasted. FF14 is more MMO than RPG (the reverse of swtor), and I don't think that'll keep me invested in my characters.

[Andryah]

Abuse?!?! lol of dear...

No one is being forced to play. I think your post sums up perfectly the mentality of the people complaining all over the forums. I'm done, reading this sort of bs just broke something in me. No more forums for me.

 

LOL.. yeah.. he makes it sound like playing an MMO is indentured servitude. In reality, for some players.. it probably is... and this is where the player can and should choose to make a change to suit their tastes and needs.

 

It would be nice if every MMO had everything every other MMO had, in equal proportions and theme, but that simply is not realistic. So.. play the one that suits you...... or.. I guess commit to an indentured servitude model and play victim (which is pretty medieval thinking in my view).

 

I've taken a break (or left completely) a good number of MMOs over the years. It's really simple.. when I am not getting my needs met, or not having fun... I move to something else. I've even done it with this MMO in the past as well. There is nothing wrong with it, and it's actually healthy at a personal level.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Andryah

[mmmbuddah]

It's pretty clear, actually. People in every mmo complain about not having the best gear available to them immediately. There are several here, in this game, posting about it daily.

 

There is having to work for it over a few months, and then there is having to work for it over a year. And if you are unlucky you still wont have it. That is a big difference.

[mmmbuddah]

Lot of talk and not a lot of showing in that video. FF14's got pretty poor storytelling compared. Silent protagonists and text based story? I'd have fun with it while the novelty of it being new lasted. FF14 is more MMO than RPG (the reverse of swtor), and I don't think that'll keep me invested in my characters.

 

There are plenty of gameplay videos, just take a look to the right at the other ones and look for yourself.

[Vember]

There is having to work for it over a few months, and then there is having to work for it over a year. And if you are unlucky you still wont have it. That is a big difference.

 

And yet there are people already in full 240. How long has it been?

Edited January 27, 2017 by Vember

[DarthWoad]

How in the world does this game have a raiding community? Just how?

 

I think SWToR may have the most abused player base in the history of mmo. The one thing I will give BioWare credit for is it's ability to abuse the players and still keep them.

 

They put out a tiny amount of content compared to other games. What they call expansions other games call patches, content updates. No game would get away with not putting out new flashpoints and new ops for 2 and half years. No game would get away with that.

 

The chapter system, feeding them out slowly as possible in a attempt to keep players like they did. No one other then Bioware would try that and get away with it, yet they did.

 

It's neat to see that they are doing a new ops but I will keep to the pattern I now have with this game. Sub for a month, see the new content come back in a couple of years and then view everything new they added in a month and leave again.

 

Grats to Bioware on being able to add a new ops over the course of a year....really BRAVO..../golfclap.

 

Quoted for truth

[Quraswren]

And that's been changed with 5.1. Yet you're still complaining. They're not going back to the loot pinata, so what do you want? What will make you stop complaining?

 

I'm talking about 5.1 and no it's a half arse step and yes, it still deserves a compliant.

 

It doesn't have to go back to the fast loot of 4.0 but 5.1 isn't a real fix either given the RNG nature of the majority of the bosses and the massive grind PVE and PVP still have attached to them.

 

Again, it's not about immediate rewards, it's about rewards for your time and the ratio at the very moment is still greatly screwed up.

 

I'd take something similar to tokens dropping every so often in RNG crates as a guaranteed drop. Every 7 crates or so and get a token. No matter what content you do by the time you grind the massive grind of tiers, you could have upwards of 10 slots filled of 14 with nice gear as you move into the next tier and the next massive grind that comes with it. Allowing you to do any content you want. No screwed up 5.1 gearing and convoluted system. Just straight up play what you want and no RNG needed.

 

Still has control of the gear distribution times for the bulk of all gamers and the few that have the time to grind day in and day out can be ahead of the curve. They would be anyway. The ones that don't have the time and are more casual can still get gear at a decent pace just playing as they want and at a pace they want. RNG still not needed. There is control gearing distribution times so it's not as quick as 4.0 but it's not as bad as 5.0 and 5.1.

 

And yet there are people already in full 240. How long has it been?

 

Because they bought the poorly optimized crafted gear along with spending millions upon millions for optimized mods and enhancements which most cannot do.

 

Not many have that kind of credits or mats to pull that off to be in full gearing but I expect you know that.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Quraswren

[TUXs]

Of course Andryah I expected you to blame the players for this.

 

But these players are paying a subscription, so they are fully justified to be upset with the service and quality of content they are getting. Period.

 

So actually, It's full the studios fault for this mindset, as they can't seem to deliver content to make players happy.

Well said.

[Lionflash]

There are plenty of gameplay videos, just take a look to the right at the other ones and look for yourself.

 

I already know quite a bit about FF14, one of my best friends plays it as his main MMO.

[mmmbuddah]

And yet there are people already in full 240. How long has it been?

 

You mean the people that used the ops boss glitch? Or the people that play 24/7? Yeah, that isnt the average player. People who have lives should also be able to have access to these things, shouldnt take 5 minutes, but it also shouldnt take 8 months .

[Airehn]

A little perspective is needed to be honest in regards to the one boss at a time release.

 

It's very likely (or maybe the hope is since the guy who created one of the hardest fights in game in Revan) that one boss can very easily take a month to beat. Look back and ask yourselves how long it took your teams to beat full operations. Obviously some will say one raid night, others will say multiple months.

 

For me: It took a month to kill nim Tanks in EC in 4.0. It took us over a month to down Terror nim. It took us a few weeks to nail down Brontes nim to get to final burn. Revan took a while, and we still haven't cleared Monolith (of course I think if we had a team running dedicated to beating monolith we'd beat it...but we didn't beat monolith the first night or the second night, or the third night. We got to 9 percent the second week of raiding it and someone stepped int he wrong color).

 

The boss could VERY easily last until the next boss is dropped for many groups that raid.

 

 

Also thanks bioware. You do get my subscription back. I was looking for news of a new operations (checked), a new daily area with reputation grind since I like that stuff (check), one of my favorite female love interests coming back (semi check? I still hate how companions are handled but I'm willing to give it a shot to see if they handle her any better). And, the promise that they are going to continue to tweak galactic command (check).

 

So thanks Bioware. I shall resub.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[mmmbuddah]

I already know quite a bit about FF14, one of my best friends plays it as his main MMO.

 

Honestly I may make the switch too. Because at least they use the sub money for content. REGULAR released content. And not 3 hours of content over a year or more. I would go back to ESO, but they made the ridiculous decision to make gear stronger than your actual attacks. So you die from attacking people. lol.

[menofhorror]

Honestly you guys should be surprised they are even making Something akin to OPs.

 

Pretty much anyone understood that OPs were dead and yet they changed their mind.