The new bolster level

[Qwurdilu]

u are my hero! Bioware u ****ed up again! We are still forced to play 1 char, over and over and over...no more pending between 4-5 chars.

 

Thats why u shouldnt trust information on the internet without double checking it. Actually playing many characters helps you a lot on your way to full 240 and reduces the time needed drastically.

[DarthRaika]

u are my hero! Bioware u ****ed up again! We are still forced to play 1 char, over and over and over...no more pending between 4-5 chars.

 

10% bonus dmg is HUGE (and I said over 10%). Lol. You must be someone who just really really wants to believe you don't have an advantage. I feel sorry for you. Get a life.

[DarthRaika]

Wow, thats some prejudice...

just so you know, i was #1 solo ranked season 4 with over a thousands matches played. Right now im among the top 3 played matches team ranked. When it comes down to pvp theres not many people that have a larger experience.

I sincerly hope that one day you and lhancelot overcome all that negativity find joiy in the game and transport that to forums. Right now its just a mess to discuss with both of you.

 

LOL!!!! You were an operative on jarkai sword....in other words you had no competition and likely q synched (although I'm sure you called it q'n with friends). PVP on a real server or don't brag.

Edited January 29, 2017 by DarthRaika

[Qwurdilu]

"i have a dream. That one day people will stop to blame gear"

 

Dr. Martin Luther Skill

Edited January 29, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[Ranstasia]

Edit: Talking is silver, silence is gold. Edited January 29, 2017 by Ranstasia
removing

[Klaus]

10% bonus dmg is HUGE (and I said over 10%). Lol. You must be someone who just really really wants to believe you don't have an advantage. I feel sorry for you. Get a life.

Really? That's the issue! I have a life! i can only dedicate around 3 hours/day to the game, 4-5 in weekend! Read again! I was adressing to Snave. I enjoy playing sorc dps and ...RANKED! Do u realise what 10% means for the sorcs? The difference between 5.0 and 5.1 is there! I feel it! Edited January 29, 2017 by Klaus

[Ranstasia]

In answer to my own question.

 

After having played a grand total of 107 matches the results, to me, does not imply bolster as having any significant effect.

 

I played 62 matches solo queuing. Of those 62, 27 was in 208 gear and 35 in the best possible gear I have which gives a 234, 86 average rating.

 

45 games I played with a premade of those game we did 24 with 208 gear and 21 in the best we could. The average gear in this case having an item level of 233, 35.

 

Playing solo I won 27 games and lost 35. Of the wins 17 was in 208.

 

When playing in the premade we won 41 out of 45 matches. Of the wins 21 was in 208 gear.

 

The conclusion I make from this is that gear has no significant impact. Going in a group compared to going solo does have a major impact.

 

Again this is the conclusion I make. Whether someone else does is not for me to know or have interest in.

[Lhancelot]

In answer to my own question.

 

After having played a grand total of 107 matches the results, to me, does not imply bolster as having any significant effect.

 

I played 62 matches solo queuing. Of those 62, 27 was in 208 gear and 35 in the best possible gear I have which gives a 234, 86 average rating.

 

45 games I played with a premade of those game we did 24 with 208 gear and 21 in the best we could. The average gear in this case having an item level of 233, 35.

 

Playing solo I won 27 games and lost 35. Of the wins 17 was in 208.

 

When playing in the premade we won 41 out of 45 matches. Of the wins 21 was in 208 gear.

 

The conclusion I make from this is that gear has no significant impact. Going in a group compared to going solo does have a major impact.

 

Again this is the conclusion I make. Whether someone else does is not for me to know or have interest in.

 

First of all, you can't compare how bolster and gears is working when the majority of players probably are not in the highest tier of gears yet.

 

Sure, if the average gear rating is 230-235 atm, then perhaps the gear difference and bolster seems to be insignificant.

 

What others are concerned about regarding bolster and ratings of gear is when it gets to the point heavy pvpers are all wearing maxed gears.

 

By then they not only will have vast experience of PVP, they also will have the top tier gears.

 

When and if the game gets to this point, then do your anecdotal experiment and see if the gears make no difference and bolster is working fine for the NEW players who are wearing non-gear sets and assorted lowbie rated tiers of gear.

 

Again, the concern is not so much how bolster and gears work at this time.

 

The concerns are about new players, lesser geared players who do not have gear set bonuses and who only have bolster to rely on to give them a chance in PVP against top tier pvpers in gear set armors of the highest rating.

Does that sound like it will work to you? On paper it doesn't sound reasonable but you could be right too. Perhaps even in the above scenario, bolster will work out just fine.

 

I am just pointing out the concern why people do not feel bolster is tuned high enough.

[Ranstasia]

.

 

When and if the game gets to this point, then do your anecdotal experiment and see if the gears make no difference .

 

Are you implying that I am referencing hearsay? That I'm making things up? Or do you not know what anecdotal evidence is? It's an honest question because I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

If you mean that the sample size is small, then yes it is. If you mean that I can't present it as basis for concluding that this is likely the case, I am not trying to as I said tho is my personal conclusion this far. I would state that there absolutely exists indications pointing in certain directions and that I can construct an hypotheses. An hypothesis that will probably prove true when tested further.

 

If I was to present anecdotal evidence I would say that my general feeling is that gear is not salient I pvp. Going in a coordinated group however is.

[Romeugues]

"i have a dream. That one day people will stop to blame gear"

 

Dr. Martin Luther Skill

Why are you still posting in this thread? Snave and others completely dismantled your argument pages ago, just accept you're wrong and move on mate.

[Qwurdilu]

Again, the concern is not so much how bolster and gears work at this time.

.

 

So while running out of arguments your last straw is that in the future the system may be broken? How about we start talking about it the day this happens instead of talking about unborn kids?

They already announced cxp events, so before the first guy is full 242 modded we already will see an inflation in the gearing process.

 

 

Why are you still posting in this thread? Snave and others completely dismantled your argument pages ago, just accept you're wrong and move on mate.

 

Because snave admitted something important:

I'm not really a spreadsheet guy

 

He seems to have no deeper understanding of how bolster works exactly and thus many of his arguments are based on wrong conclusions. Especially this post is full of wrong facts and misinformation.

 

Its super sad that so many believe what they read without double checking facts, but i guess thats a common nowadays in the internet. You may want to take this test to check if youre fully aware of how this system works

[Klaus]

Because snave admitted something important:[/url]

The one without pertinent arguments is you! First you take that from the context. Second: When person say u are drunk, u dont admit, when a second one tells u the same thing, you still wont admit, when the third person tell u the same: u must go and rest. I only wish to RNGesus that my sorc(208) will be in the same solo ranked team with you....

[Lhancelot]

Are you implying that I am referencing hearsay? That I'm making things up? Or do you not know what anecdotal evidence is? It's an honest question because I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

If you mean that the sample size is small, then yes it is. If you mean that I can't present it as basis for concluding that this is likely the case, I am not trying to as I said tho is my personal conclusion this far. I would state that there absolutely exists indications pointing in certain directions and that I can construct an hypotheses. An hypothesis that will probably prove true when tested further.

 

If I was to present anecdotal evidence I would say that my general feeling is that gear is not salient I pvp. Going in a coordinated group however is.

 

Alright, let's discuss what "anecdotal" means by the very definition from a dictionary, shall we?

 

Anecdotal - (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research. Also, depicting small narrative incidents.

 

Your opinion of bolster working fine and the difference in gears being insignificant is 100% based off of your own personal experience. It does not matter how the experience transpired.

 

Regardless if you solo queued, or went "in a coordinated group." Totally irrelevant.

 

Not sure how you think this proves that bolster will make the power difference between top tier pvp gears and low rated non-bonus sets insignificant when you personally have not even experienced that yourself yet.

 

How do I know so? Because there are not enough people in full top tier gear bonus sets to even begin to compare how they match up against low rating non-bonus set geared players.

 

If you are saying as it stands now, bolster seems to work fine for middle tier rated gears and lesser non-gear sets at this very moment, then I would say you could be right.

 

No one is concerned about this atm though.

 

As I said before the concern is about how balance will be between top tier gears with bonuses versus low rated gears without set bonuses.

 

I suppose I can say "thanks" for confirming that low rated gears and 230-235 gears do not show a significant difference, but honestly this isn't what I am concerned about.

[snave]

He seems to have no deeper understanding of how bolster works exactly and thus many of his arguments are based on wrong conclusions. Especially this post is full of wrong facts and misinformation.

 

 

Please tell me what parts of that post are "wrong facts and misinformation". I really don't want to continue this conversation with you because we clearly have a difference of opinion but if I've used the incorrect numbers please point them out so I can update the post accordingly.

[Ranstasia]

Alright, let's discuss what "anecdotal" means by the very definition from a dictionary, shall we?

 

Anecdotal - (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research. Also, depicting small narrative incidents.

 

Your opinion of bolster working fine and the difference in gears being insignificant is 100% based off of your own personal experience. It does not matter how the experience transpired.

 

Regardless if you solo queued, or went "in a coordinated group." Totally irrelevant.

 

Not sure how you think this proves that bolster will make the power difference between top tier pvp gears and low rated non-bonus sets insignificant when you personally have not even experienced that yourself yet.

 

How do I know so? Because there are not enough people in full top tier gear bonus sets to even begin to compare how they match up against low rating non-bonus set geared players.

 

If you are saying as it stands now, bolster seems to work fine for middle tier rated gears and lesser non-gear sets at this very moment, then I would say you could be right.

 

No one is concerned about this atm though.

 

As I said before the concern is about how balance will be between top tier gears with bonuses versus low rated gears without set bonuses.

 

I suppose I can say "thanks" for confirming that low rated gears and 230-235 gears do not show a significant difference, but honestly this isn't what I am concerned about.

 

 

What, what and what? Firstly I have proven nothing. The sample is to small to draw any conclusions, I was perhaps unclear so i repeat that I personally draw these conclusions based on the data I gathered. I gave a short account of how I did this and presented how many observations I did (107). There is nothing that depending on my personal feeling, experience or wish, in any way, shape or form can change the number of games or the relation between wins and losses.

 

How I experienced the matches and how I perceived them has no place anywhere but in my mind. Had I not gathered the number of games, the win/loose ratio and then presented it all that would had been an anecdotal presentation of evidence. E.g. "I played lots of games after 5.1 both in pugs and in premade an I state as a fact that because I experienced it like this the truth is so." I also gave an example of this.

 

In any case I shared my observations in quantifiable objective numbers. I did not try to hide my opinion as a fact. I will keep tracking this and with time the number of observations will make a more solid conclusion present itself. No matter mine or anyone's else's wish or perception.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Ranstasia
clarification

[Lhancelot]

What, what and what? Firstly I have proven nothing. The sample is to small to draw any conclusions,

 

Ok, I was under the impression you were trying to conclude how bolster was working for all tiers of armors etc., as if what you experienced was directly going to correlate how bolster will work for the higher lvls of armors.

 

I just misunderstood the point of your post, apparently.

[Ranstasia]

Ok, I was under the impression you were trying to conclude how bolster was working for all tiers of armors etc., as if what you experienced was directly going to correlate how bolster will work for the higher lvls of armors.

 

I just misunderstood the point of your post, apparently.

 

With that misunderstanding being able to go to rest, reading what one perceive instead of perceiving what one read is nothing unusual on these forums in my perception:rolleyes: , I will continue to gather data and hopefully at some point have enough observations to be able to make a valid conclusion.

 

The amount of observations needed to reach this is I wager in the thousands as pvp got so many variables. Different locations, different participants etc etc. Anyone willing to help can send me a pm and ill reply with exactly what type of data I need. Any assistance would be appreciated.

[Lhancelot]

With that misunderstanding being able to go to rest, reading what one perceive instead of perceiving what one read is nothing unusual on these forums in my perception:rolleyes: , I will continue to gather data and hopefully at some point have enough observations to be able to make a valid conclusion.

 

The amount of observations needed to reach this is I wager in the thousands as pvp got so many variables. Different locations, different participants etc etc. Anyone willing to help can send me a pm and ill reply with exactly what type of data I need. Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[Qwurdilu]

Please tell me what parts of that post are "wrong facts and misinformation". I really don't want to continue this conversation with you because we clearly have a difference of opinion but if I've used the incorrect numbers please point them out so I can update the post accordingly.

 

You completely forgot about weekly mission rewards, which gives voidmatter catalyst which translates into gear. Actually they are #1 source of gear upgrades up until 240. And theres very little playtime needed to finish them

Edited January 30, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[snave]

You completely forgot about weekly mission rewards, which gives voidmatter catalyst which translates into gear. Actually they are #1 source of gear upgrades up until 240. And theres very little playtime needed to finish them

 

They translate into one upgrade for one slot per one week. I didn't factor them in because you still need to get the tier pieces in order to upgrade them even if you purchase full 240 mods and enhancements for your character. If you mean the full crafted pieces then you just end up in the same non set bonused situation you were in to begin with so I'm going to assume you're not talking about them because that would be silly.

 

As said many many many times already the issue is for players who are new, returning or who do not have the set bonus. The weekly quest granting catalysts doesn't help them get set bonus gear, nor does it help them get their initial upgradable pieces.

 

The interesting part of your comment though is that you think a weekly crafting component is the number 1 source of gear upgrades. Assuming players don't have access to millions of credits (and the people relying on bolster generally won't) that means in your opinion them upgrading one slot per one item per one week is the best way to go. Problem solved guys, just grind out enough millions to buy gear or of course buy a cartel hypercrate then sell it in game because that's not pay to win at all.

 

230 tier 1 gear should be more accessible. Please stop trying to shift your argument in twenty different directions to suit your own situation.

 

So my post doesn't contain "wrong facts and misinformation". No need to apologise buddy it's all good.

[Qwurdilu]

They translate into one upgrade for one slot per one week.

 

wrong. again. In fact you can get multiple voidmatter catalyst per character per week and thus multiple items due to pvp weeklies. You should really get your facts straight.

 

The weekly quest granting catalysts doesn't help them get set bonus gear

 

You are again referring to set bonus as a vital part of beeing competetive when in reality it only really shines in duels. For overall performance, setbonus differnce is about 5%

 

 

Hey everyone,

 

We wanted to take a moment to reach out to the community to collect ideas on set bonuses. We are looking for opinions on current and previous set bonuses as well as concepts for future. This thread will cover Marauders/Sentinels.

 

Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions.

 

Current Level 60 Set Bonuses (for reference)

• 2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  
• 4-Piece: Reduces the cooldown of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 10 seconds.
  
• 6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute.
  

Cheers, all!

The SWTOR Combat Team

 

 

 

The 5% was their goal for alle classes and it worked out pretty well. (except for sorcheal, setbonus is vital there due to changed energy mechanics).

 

Also, as someone else mentioned, 230 armoring with 240 mods/enhance will be viable for any pvp content in this game. Add to this that theres is no difference for main/offhand between looted and crafted.

 

So my post doesn't contain "wrong facts and Missinformation".

 

What would you like to have it called then? alternative facts?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[TrixxieTriss]

This is incorrect and bordering on false information. It is very shameful to lie and it is the prerogative of the ignorant to conjure truth from wish. The current bolster sets a person to 232. One with a full set of gear at 232 will be bolstered correctly, i.e. will loose nothing and will gain nothing. This I have now tried with a sample statistically well inside a 96 % margin.Having spent three days working this out for my self doing pvp which (in my opinion) is a challenge to my muscle memory but not my intellect.

 

Bolster at the level currently experienced is pretty much on par with what for all I know intended. 242 is 10 levels above 232 which equals a bit less than 5 %%.

 

This is intended afaik an about equal to the difference that 208 (after upgrading to BiS) was to the old( to some perfect) 204 in 4.0.

 

So as some already have pointed out. If we are to improve pvp lets focus on actual issues and not rainbows.

 

Sorry I might have miss quoted somewhere, like someone else pointed out. It was not intentional to confuse.

 

The gist of what I was saying is that some gear doesn't Bolster properly and the only gear that seems to be set correctly is the 242.

Anything under 232 has mixed results and doesn't Bolster correctly or consistently. At least when it was set higher, Hottie was able to demonstrate that that 242 was BiS, which is basically what they wanted to achieve anyway by making people grind.

230 and 232 still gave you lower results than 242, but lower gear was messed up a little, but not as noticeable as it is now.

The testing with the Augments and also mixed 228-230 ear, relics and weapons, has given some strange results at lvl 70 and still shows 228 having issues, especially when you compare it to 208 gear.

With DVL gear over bolstering, the only conclusion is there are still bugs in the system. The smart thing for Bio to have done was to keep Bolster at 250 and fix all of those bugs first. Then roll it out all at once. By doing it the way they have, it's created a big gear imbalance.

They would have still had people wanting to BiS gear at 242, but gearing wouldn't have the gear gap it does at the moment.

 

I just wanted to add that putting in the top augments into 208 gear at lvl 68 is BiS. But when you get to lvl 70, you will have to do some testing as you upgrade pieces. Especially if you can't upgrade all at once or want to mix in shells and keep you internal armor piece so you still have a set bonus.

I would suggest you keep a couple of your 208 augments and not destroy them as you may need to swap them back out if you go over the stat cap of 232.

I don't know if augments mess with Bolster as you reach the 232 stat cap. Maybe someone with more time can do some testing.

 

I just want to add a bit of maths for you.

190 was the highest gear you could have in 4:0 before you lost Bolster stats (expertise)

190 gear still gave you lower stats than entry lvl 204 gear. I don't have exact numbers here, but I've asked Icy to see if she can find any from her old testing. To our knowledge, Bioware never officially announced a lvl the gear was set at.

The percentage between entry lvl 204 and ranked lvl 208 = 1.96%

Let's assume that 190 bolstered gear was set at 200. The percentage between 200 and 208 = 4%

 

Now I'm not a wiz with math, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I used an online percentage calculator to get the numbers.

Edited January 30, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

How would it not be confusing? Presenting facts as is are not open to interpretation, to criticism yes, to questioning yes, to interpretation based on what one wish or believe no. "I assume" "I believe" "I think" is used when not stating facts.

 

To go into actual straw man rhetoric and not use the term as so many around here do without knowing what it is. The planet we inhabit called earth or Tellus is in rotation around a yellow sun. I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

GOD exists, I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is.

 

One is today a pretty much unquestioned truth one is based on belief.

 

You do realise that people can type the wrong thing when they mean another. I usually proof read better, but I was tired when I wrote it.

You guys don't need to argue about it.

Edited January 30, 2017 by TrixxieTriss

[jedcjedcjedc]

In answer to my own question.

 

After having played a grand total of 107 matches the results, to me, does not imply bolster as having any significant effect.

 

I played 62 matches solo queuing. Of those 62, 27 was in 208 gear and 35 in the best possible gear I have which gives a 234, 86 average rating.

 

45 games I played with a premade of those game we did 24 with 208 gear and 21 in the best we could. The average gear in this case having an item level of 233, 35.

 

Playing solo I won 27 games and lost 35. Of the wins 17 was in 208.

 

When playing in the premade we won 41 out of 45 matches. Of the wins 21 was in 208 gear.

 

The conclusion I make from this is that gear has no significant impact. Going in a group compared to going solo does have a major impact.

 

Again this is the conclusion I make. Whether someone else does is not for me to know or have interest in.

I've also done about 100 or so matches since the update (calculated by the pieces I've purchased, 150 + 115 + the 160 I currently have = 85 if all wins, so factoring in arenas and some losses, around 100 games most likely) mostly solo que, and my findings have been pretty much the same. Same thing, different day.

 

Also, who are these magical unicorns that are just starting pvp at this very moment and don't have any 208's?

Edited January 30, 2017 by jedcjedcjedc

[snave]

wrong. again. In fact you can get multiple voidmatter catalyst per character per week and thus multiple items due to pvp weeklies. You should really get your facts straight.

 

Again, this doesn't help you get your initial set of gear. This whole conversation with you is pointless because you seem 100% set on arguing about something I'm not talking about. Bolster is a stop gap for people to get gear, saying they should spend millions of credits as a workaround only works if you have millions of credits. Being given crafting components helps for sure but I didn't include it in my original post seeing as that post is entirely about how long it takes people to get their tier gear via PvP.

 

 

You are again referring to set bonus as a vital part of beeing competetive when in reality it only really shines in duels. For overall performance, setbonus differnce is about 5%

 

 

 

 

 

 

The 5% was their goal for alle classes and it worked out pretty well. (except for sorcheal, setbonus is vital there due to changed energy mechanics).

 

Goals =/= reality. You still seem to be missing my point on set bonus gear and bolster.

 

You need tier 1 to get tier 2, tier 2 to get tier 3. Even if someone is lucky enough to be able to afford 240 mods, enhancements and hilts they will still need to obtain gear through this method. As it stands this method is far too slow for the initial level. There's other issues with this system too, like for example because I didn't get 230 gear I cannot upgrade my 234 gear to 236. I literally have to grind out worse gear so I can eventually upgrade it past the point it's already at. At this point it would be better for me if I could get 1-90 rewards from cxp rather than 180-300 like I am right now.

 

Also seeing as you love posting things said a long time ago here's a post regarding gear from 3.3

 

 

 

PvP Gear Cost

We think that getting a full set of PvP gear is too much of a grind. This is so much the case that only about 2% of PvP players have a full Dark Reaver set. Having at least Exhumed gear is a barrier to entry to being successful in PvP for the majority of players, so we looked to reduce the time and cost of getting there. We have reduced the entry PvP gear costs by roughly a third, and a full set (not min/maxed) will now cost about 4075 Warzone Commendations. For the Dark Reaver/Ranked set we didn’t reduce the price as much, but Ranked Warzone Comms will no longer be used to buy them; pieces will now be purchased with Warzone Comms and the previous tier gear piece. (Ranked Warzone Comms have been removed from the game, but we’ll touch on that more in the Ranked Reward changes found below.) A full Ranked Gear set will now cost about 16,525 Warzone Comms, much less than the current price of around 29,000 Ranked Comms. The exact prices are still being finalized, but this is the spirit and intent of the changes to PvP gear prices that you'll be seeing. In addition, the character cap for Warzone Comms will be raised to 200,000 and the Daily/Weekly Missions will have increased Credit rewards. These changes will make it easier and faster to gear up and get to a competitive level in PvP. Our hope is that the reduced grind makes for a more enjoyable Warzone experience.

 

 

 

I guess they did a 180 on that stance eh?

 

 

 

 

Also, as someone else mentioned, 230 armoring with 240 mods/enhance will be viable for any pvp content in this game. Add to this that theres is no difference for main/offhand between looted and crafted.

 

 

 

What would you like to have it called then? alternative facts?

 

Yes 230 is fine. I'm asking that people get access to it faster.

 

You can call it alternative facts, I didn't mention crafting at all in my original post which was entirely about the time taken to get gear purely from PvP. You keep trying to change your points to be about other topics.

 

TLDR - 230 takes too long to get, players will be at a disadvantage for too long.

 

I'm done replying to you mate, I think my points are pretty clear and well explained. Feel free to sperg some more about whatever side point you want to raise this time.