https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9BOZq_-tCoo Started to try and spice rhings up during the ever so grindy grind for CXP by timing our runns in the easier fps. So thaught I would ask around for others best time. My groups rule is simple and self imposed. We choose an fp, agree on a max time for completion and should we exceed the self imposed time, agree to quit Group /stuck or whatever is needed no matter. This far, only doing Mando raiders twice with a constraint of 23:00 min including bonus. 1st 22:43 2nd 19:54, boss bugged and no turrets spawned until boss dead, so all died but we stayed to loot deciding it was no fault of ours. Tomorrow its 20:00 mando and 17:00 hammer station.

Wouldt call it a bad tactical dispositoin the type of playstyle the above mentioned adeheres to, but I wouldt call it very good either. It is perfectly valid to group up and have your team supress the other in a way that you can gain a quick win. But it is a tactic easy to render moot, I have blocked both scoundrels and others by just going Al Bundy on objects by marrying the nodes and sticking to them no matter what. The ones in pvp that rattles my snake so to say are the teams that change tactics and disposition on the roll by doing the unexpected.

Good thing that everyonw is on the subject of how changes to bolster impacts our pvp:D If there is any interest from the Community i am trying to complement how i approach testing the bolster. This aims at trying to handle the massive amount of variables, with a qualitative supplement. I Will try and explain, if anyone misunderstand it will be my fault. I am an economist and generally when we work with statistics we want quantity:p and then more quantity, with some quantity for good measure. This is to as best we can eliminate those irritating humans and their irrational behavior from our models. A normal person when having a child usually first checks gender and perhaps decides on a name. An economist would check all available statistical data (preferably 100 years of it) then do a regression to see if there exists any significant differences. Compare the newborn in relation to this. Decide on gender and name and no matter the reality, no matter actual gender and what others stick to this. Possibly changing her mind 40 years later should someone present reality it in the form of a thesis, With an appendix raging from I.a.1 to MMMMMCIX. q. 391 filled with mathematical formulas (preferably with the entire Greek alphabet, and lots of regressions). Economists are always impressed by math they don't understand. True story, when I was a graduate, a guy I went with had bought a new car, a part of the manual describing the engine or something ended up in his dissertation. He later guessed that he by mistake handed in the manual and his paper together for printing. This was not discovered untill one of the professors opposing him on his Ph.D. seminar, started talking about how he "could understand that flow (or something) was easier to quantify using this model, trying to be inventive and work in new ways". "And even as it was a good effort and showed signs of thinking in new ways, but alas even though new ways, not first" This professor then sat a good quarter of an hour explaining how he years and years ago had fiddles with this and was close to presenting a paper. All this time my co grad student sat looking frantically in his dissertation wondering *** he was on about. After having found, explained and apologized for his mistake. The silence in the auditorium was the most deafening I've heard in my life. In any case I've strayed from my reson for this post. What I aimed at first was to se if gear and by that also bolster has an effect in pvp, if to what degree. Since the outcome in pvp depends on a large amount of uncertain variables. Skill, setting, composition etc etc one way to isolate gear is to repeat the experime amount of times. Ie. If I put on the very beat I can in one game and the "worst" in another. Loose in the one with great gear and win the one with bad gear. It does not give me any justification about gear at all. If I repeat this however say 10.000 times and the only thing I do different is change gear. Should this show significantly different then I can likely with some confidence say there exists a difference. Since likely any random factor experienced testing one time (premade in the lost game, bots in the second for example will happen equal amounts of times in both. Thereby unrandoming the random variable so to say. Talking to fellow at the faculty who works with qa, deeper and smaller, he suggested something we have started to try. I with seven guildies make a /roll. The four lowest goes imp side and puts on 228 crafted stuff, Highest four stays rep and puts on our best. We separate too different channels and que up as a group. When we match up in an arena environment all gloves go off and its for realzors. After the game all again roll and the new roll decides who goes where. And so on and on and on . In any case as a reader nigh understand this is fabulously time consuming so this far only three games played.. As for us we are satisfied with as s little as 20 ish games played to reach our own conclusions. But if there is interest from people on the forums we will take it to a descent number. Then present the result in that horrible way where others can understand *** one is saying. Edit I will sort spelling etc at a later time when not on a train typing on my phone.

I can't say much about the difference how bolster worked in 4.0 to how it works in the 5.0 + era. Only time before that I've even dabbled with it was some years ago when , if I remember correctly putting a blue hilt/barrel in ones mh gave better output than the best available pvp hilt because some bolster issue. Apart from that 2018 expertise was mandatory for me on hitting max level and doing pvp. Even though I played lower level pvp as well. Considering the Teutonic shifts in power between classes as they gain differently in relative strength all the way to level cap. It was of little to no concern even there though bolster was the sole source of expertise until cap. Between 5.0 when bolster was equivalent to 250 and the change in 5.1 to 232 I've noticed ( N.B speaking only for myself) no major difference, in pvp that is. Perhaps a slight nudge towards favoring DPS more and HPS less as TTK seems to have gone down a notch. A good thing in my opinion. Time will tell. In general I think removing expertise as a stat is a good thing, at least as long as things don't go haywire (as it seems to have done with the DvL armor, nothing I have or will try as it bears no meaning for me gaining advantage that way. )My reasoning in thinking this is that the less stats I have to look at to min/max the better. Having a tank as main already requires multiple sets to be efficient. In 5.0 and 5.1 even though I carry a PvE set and a PvP set its mostly different augments and left side stuff I dabble with. Even as pvp got its issues, in my opinion gear is not at the moment at least one of them. The absolute worst PvP I have ever experienced was around Christmas. With hacking being so common in all types of pvp that I stopped playing. This seems to have been handled by bw even though nothing has been said. At least from where I stand it has almost ceased to happen. As for the introduction of galactic command and how we progress I like how it functions. Opening up gearing paths independent of what part of the game players wish to experience. Pre 5.0 the only way to attain BiS PvP/PvE gear was ops or pvp. And no matter what others experienced, mine is that it was a massive grind. Sure I could blow up EV/KP each week to get stuff, and I did but nowhere was that fun or felt deserved. It was a way to get alts decked out. Sure I could get me a starter kit for pvp instantly. But to get the good stuff it took a while. What I strongly dislike with GC is the random nature. Having to trust in luck is never a good thing, it is what it is but its terribly annoying to upgrade my 4th earpiece by 2 item levels and still be running around with 224 boots. So I don't care much for the execution. I had rather had, if a random model must be used, that instead of gear each time I open a crate i get some random amount of unassembled gear tokens. With the minimum and maximum amount increasing depending on command level. This way I could progress with intent and not with chance.

With that misunderstanding being able to go to rest, reading what one perceive instead of perceiving what one read is nothing unusual on these forums in my perception:rolleyes: , I will continue to gather data and hopefully at some point have enough observations to be able to make a valid conclusion. The amount of observations needed to reach this is I wager in the thousands as pvp got so many variables. Different locations, different participants etc etc. Anyone willing to help can send me a pm and ill reply with exactly what type of data I need. Any assistance would be appreciated.

What, what and what? Firstly I have proven nothing. The sample is to small to draw any conclusions, I was perhaps unclear so i repeat that I personally draw these conclusions based on the data I gathered. I gave a short account of how I did this and presented how many observations I did (107). There is nothing that depending on my personal feeling, experience or wish, in any way, shape or form can change the number of games or the relation between wins and losses. How I experienced the matches and how I perceived them has no place anywhere but in my mind. Had I not gathered the number of games, the win/loose ratio and then presented it all that would had been an anecdotal presentation of evidence. E.g. "I played lots of games after 5.1 both in pugs and in premade an I state as a fact that because I experienced it like this the truth is so." I also gave an example of this. In any case I shared my observations in quantifiable objective numbers. I did not try to hide my opinion as a fact. I will keep tracking this and with time the number of observations will make a more solid conclusion present itself. No matter mine or anyone's else's wish or perception.

Are you implying that I am referencing hearsay? That I'm making things up? Or do you not know what anecdotal evidence is? It's an honest question because I don't understand what you are trying to say. If you mean that the sample size is small, then yes it is. If you mean that I can't present it as basis for concluding that this is likely the case, I am not trying to as I said tho is my personal conclusion this far. I would state that there absolutely exists indications pointing in certain directions and that I can construct an hypotheses. An hypothesis that will probably prove true when tested further. If I was to present anecdotal evidence I would say that my general feeling is that gear is not salient I pvp. Going in a coordinated group however is.

In answer to my own question. After having played a grand total of 107 matches the results, to me, does not imply bolster as having any significant effect. I played 62 matches solo queuing. Of those 62, 27 was in 208 gear and 35 in the best possible gear I have which gives a 234, 86 average rating. 45 games I played with a premade of those game we did 24 with 208 gear and 21 in the best we could. The average gear in this case having an item level of 233, 35. Playing solo I won 27 games and lost 35. Of the wins 17 was in 208. When playing in the premade we won 41 out of 45 matches. Of the wins 21 was in 208 gear. The conclusion I make from this is that gear has no significant impact. Going in a group compared to going solo does have a major impact. Again this is the conclusion I make. Whether someone else does is not for me to know or have interest in.

Edit: Talking is silver, silence is gold.

[quote=Lhancelot;9224359 It's like trying to explain to a serial killer why killing is bad. When someone simply lacks the empathy or a conscience to put themselves in other peoples shoes you can never get your point across as to why it's bad. Yes it is. How point on and how relevant this comparison is. In no way would this actually be a pure example of what many would say is a straw man argument. I for my part would, in agreement with your post say fishing with a rod is kin to using Pershing missiles. Using a Abrahams tank to hunt game akin to a gun and putting an iceberg in a drink akin to a cube.

The system has, does and will discourage people. Not because of a difference in gear, not because some are "silly" enough to play story and do not understand how magnificently complicated and awesome pvp is. In my opinion it is because some people insist that my way, my thinking, my wish, my perception is an must be correct always and everywhere. "no representative ever look at the pvp forums" yet we had a fast response not long ago regarding bolster changes. "Going premade is just a way to avoid having to que with those retarded story mode PvE scrubs that infest our WZs" then we get "I am oh so helpefull always and everywhere to the retarded, ignorant, mentally challenged story mode people that ask me for help. Ask One actual teacher how motivated a pupil get by being called names" "It's all bws fault, bolster, gear, my ISP, scrubs on my team, no one plays objectives, none kills only go and play objective" In my humble opinion many of the masters of pvp are as useful as General Melchet in Black adder goes forth. I play pvp as I play pve, to win and not to please. I don't pretend I want a fair fight I go with a team, I don't pretend I died because the aoe that pulverized me was green and not red, I don't pretend I died because someone else was a "scrub, kiddo, pveer, pvper or what not. I died because I died and I ask for advice, and give the same in return. A thing this forums is void of. The notion I get is that its always something else, the map, the class , the gear, the scrub, the que, the kiddo, the white knight, the straw man??, the Capricorn, the Aztec calendar etc etc.

Cheers and again in no way was my intention to question, insult or in any way diminish you or anyone as a person. We might not agree but being civil in disagreement might make one loose the argument. Being uncivil WILL looose you the argument.

Not at all. And if you read what I wrote as that, I was unclear and the fault is mine, mea culpa. Apologies if so. I did not intend to call anyone a liar. To call someone a liar I would have to know the individual and the particular modus of that individual. Giving the wrong answer on a test is not lying, it's just that one did not do ones homework good enough. Presenting emotions, beliefs or intuitive guesses as truth do not compute with me though. It helps none, remedies nothing and gives nothing to anyone. For example this bolster "debate" is now so infected and motivated by peoples disappointment from the changes in 5.0 to a random model of improvement from a predicted one that the issue gets diluted. I think, and I underscore, I think that many are venting their disappointment with that and only that. In any case I am satisfied. I've done the math's myself as when asking no response was given. I am in my opinion as knowledgeable as I wish to be for me to participate in pvp as I have ambition to. For those that wish to believe that opinions are facts I give them gods speed. It might be so it might not be so. Only time will tell

How would it not be confusing? Presenting facts as is are not open to interpretation, to criticism yes, to questioning yes, to interpretation based on what one wish or believe no. "I assume" "I believe" "I think" is used when not stating facts. To go into actual straw man rhetoric and not use the term as so many around here do without knowing what it is. The planet we inhabit called earth or Tellus is in rotation around a yellow sun. I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is. GOD exists, I dare you to challenge this fact as I present it as is. One is today a pretty much unquestioned truth one is based on belief.

Maths sometimes hurt, sometimes injure, sometimes hate, sometime love. But maths will never tell a lie.

That the only ones bolstered correctly are the ones in 242 gear. This is incorrect and from someone that is an expert in pvp based on falsification or ignorance.

This is incorrect and bordering on false information. It is very shameful to lie and it is the prerogative of the ignorant to conjure truth from wish. The current bolster sets a person to 232. One with a full set of gear at 232 will be bolstered correctly, i.e. will loose nothing and will gain nothing. This I have now tried with a sample statistically well inside a 96 % margin.Having spent three days working this out for my self doing pvp which (in my opinion) is a challenge to my muscle memory but not my intellect. Bolster at the level currently experienced is pretty much on par with what for all I know intended. 242 is 10 levels above 232 which equals a bit less than 5 %%. This is intended afaik an about equal to the difference that 208 (after upgrading to BiS) was to the old( to some perfect) 204 in 4.0. So as some already have pointed out. If we are to improve pvp lets focus on actual issues and not rainbows.

Is this the epiphany of what the pot said to the kettle?

I imagine they do frequent these parts of the forums. I am basing this wild unrealistic guess on the fact that in this very forum, two posts above this one, a post that was replied too by people in this very thread, there is a yellow post:D

While I can agree with the basics of what you are saying expecting any major changes might be a tad optimistic. I do not care for the current model of execution but I do think the current model in its function is a great improvement. To try and sound less like a permanent secretary in the civil service. If the GC would stay as it is but instead of, as I wager a fair few now experience going from one level to the next, granting a moment of dread when opening and a period of disappointment when realizing. I would be far more satisfied with a model that instead of as is now grants a random item, grants a random quantity of unassembled tokens. That way I could if mega lucky get a metric ton to buy all the BiS in the world, but also if the universe hated me slowly save up for precisely what I want. Edit: Current ranks could be as is with the minimum and maximum amount of tokens being upped based on ones rank. That aside and back on topic. I have not as of yet seen any fabled 242kill squads pulverizing everyone in pvp. What I have seen is the same old premades pulverizingin pvp. No different from at any other time in this game .

I would also assume that the DvL gear situation is not going to last but a mistake. Which no doubt many will see and already do see as a BW conspiracy In any case. As to your answer to me, I can see how putting a different level to bolster impaired alt participation in pvp (a 180 degree difference from stated intention). That said would the solution be to allow pvp to stand with a bolster level of the old 250?. If that is the answer there would be no (in my opinion) reason to grant conquest points , unassembled gear, or any thing the rest of the game awards for participating in other activities of the game doing pvp Likely with time if the current situation stands there will be a gear gap. But this is nothing new, everything this game throws at a player is easier overcome with better gear. In pvp as in pve ( pve being far more complicated imo, as it requires constant awareness and focus on strategy and not tactics, compare an officer to a soldier) coordination and teamwork is key.

Can't say much for other people playing pvp but after reading up on posts about previous bolster, current bolster and working with a spreadsheet in that wonderful thing Gates inpired called excell. I tried going with a premade in 208 gear. We won like the gallant heroes that we are. I did an equal amount of games in 234 - 242 solo, and lost like a "scrub" I still see no difference from before. No matter gear if I go premade in 208 (my team was also in 208) we win. If I go in the best I possibly can solo I loose more often. 3.0, 4.0, 5.0 No difference in my experience. I have a hard time believing that bolster 5.1 has changed anything fundamental in pvp.

Aha. Makes more sense

Pardon me but I don't comprehend what you are saying. You where defeated within 30 seconds because you're opponents had great gear and still you won because you're superior skills?

I would have to agree that this could be a contributing factor. Two wrongs do not make one right though.