The new bolster level

[Janglor]

Anyone who thinks even a 5% statistical difference isn't game breaking has never PvPed at a high level.

[Qwurdilu]

Again, this doesn't help you get your initial set of gear. This whole conversation with you is pointless because you seem 100% set on arguing about something

 

See, you basically have two points:

1.BiS takes too lont to get

2.Without initial gear youre at a major disadvantage

 

 

Each time im dismantling either fact with math youre starting to say im getting offtrack. Im proving your numbers on time needed to get competetive gear are just plain wrong, and instead of admitting that you made a mathematical mistake (you probably still have no clue how many voidmatters you actually can obtain due pvp)

youre the one going back to point #2. Whenever i disprove point two, you go straight back to #1.

 

Actually its you who is hopping back and forth introducing straw man arguments. I nowhere mentionend you should use your millions credits. I. didnt. say. that. That was you. I was saying use all your pvp weeklies to get voidmatters. But that was NOT the answer to question #2, but an answer to #1. Because obviously completing weeklies doesnt help you to start, but for sure its a very essential part for the grind.

Youre turning my arguments around to fit your beliefs. You call me a bad discussionpartner, yet youre the one who is unable to admit his math is just plain wrong because it lacks all factors.

 

Btw. having different opinions is a requirement for a good discussion because thats the only way you can learn something new, except you want people to only repeat your firm beliefs

 

I agree its very debatable if we should make 230 more accessible. In my opinion you should get six 230 setbonus armorings for completing your first weekly. However before we start to factor in opinions we need to get facts straight, and you havent done that yet.

 

Maybe all this discussion that ends now at least teached you to take a second look at how many void matters you can really get.

[jedcjedcjedc]

I have to partially agree with Qwurdilu here, because the mats from conquest and pvp weekly/dailies are what I used to get my 240's setup spending a grand total of 0 credits.

[snave]

See, you basically have two points:

1.BiS takes too lont to get

2.Without initial gear youre at a major disadvantage

 

 

Those aren't my points. Please go and read what I've typed in again.

 

I have to partially agree with Qwurdilu here, because the mats from conquest and pvp weekly/dailies are what I used to get my 240's setup spending a grand total of 0 credits.

 

That's a credit loss because you can sell those items to make credits. A loss of resources is a loss of resources, you also still need to get the 230 gear by the way if you're planning on upgrading them

[Qwurdilu]

That's a credit loss because you can sell those items to make credits. A loss of resources is a loss of resources, you also still need to get the 230 gear by the way if you're planning on upgrading them

 

So youre selling your 240 gear only to start mourning in the forum how long it takes to get 240. Got your points now snave

[snave]

So youre selling your 240 gear only to start mourning in the forum how long it takes to get 240. Got your points now snave

 

That's clearly not my point. I have over 1 billion credits and could buy whatever I want but the gearing system doesn't just apply to me

 

I was pointing out that using mats rather than selling them is a loss regardless of how you look at it which is a pretty simple concept to grasp.

 

I'm also not complaining about how long it takes to get 240's, never have and in fact said they can increase the time taken to get 242 if they want. Clearly you're not reading or not understanding, or both. It looks like English isn't your first language so maybe get someone who understands it a little better to translate for you to prevent any more misunderstanding from your part?

[jedcjedcjedc]

yes, it can be a pretty hefty amount, as it takes like 20 VMC and RIS for the pieces and then like 10 for a relic, but it is one way around the "bolster issue" and being virtually only 2 points behind max tier (i say virtually because you need the armorings). atm I'm just swithing out armorings for t2, and will have my first t3 piece soon. last I checked VMC sold for about 1m, I'd assume its been undercut and fallen a bit since then, so say 500k per and it's still around 10m just for the VMC, so you can gain a lot by them, but I wouldn't really call it a loss if you don't seell them and use them for gear as they're a quest reward and especially RIS are handed out quite freely, I still have around 40 left lol.

[Kawiki]

yes, it can be a pretty hefty amount, as it takes like 20 VMC and RIS for the pieces and then like 10 for a relic, but it is one way around the "bolster issue" and being virtually only 2 points behind max tier (i say virtually because you need the armorings). atm I'm just swithing out armorings for t2, and will have my first t3 piece soon. last I checked VMC sold for about 1m, I'd assume its been undercut and fallen a bit since then, so say 500k per and it's still around 10m just for the VMC, so you can gain a lot by them, but I wouldn't really call it a loss if you don't seell them and use them for gear as they're a quest reward and especially RIS are handed out quite freely, I still have around 40 left lol.

 

VMCs on the Harb sell for between 1.5mil and 2.3 per. The problem is not the mats, the problem is access to the schems or a crafter that has the schems.

[jedcjedcjedc]

VMCs on the Harb sell for between 1.5mil and 2.3 per. The problem is not the mats, the problem is access to the schems or a crafter that has the schems.

 

Well I can't help much on harb, but once I get a list of the mods/enhancements i can make I will be making a thread in the JC section for people who are looking for a way or help to gear up mains or alts for 234's. I can't do 240's yet as pvp gains CXP slowly.

[falkron-kerupt]

Well I can't help much on harb, but once I get a list of the mods/enhancements i can make I will be making a thread in the JC section for people who are looking for a way or help to gear up mains or alts for 234's. I can't do 240's yet as pvp gains CXP slowly.

 

This right here is why people dont want the system fixed. yeah you be helping people on jc at what price rate > if you really wanted to help you would not charge ridiculous prices on your crafted crap.You are just taking advantage of a failed system at all costs and talking much smack with no evidence proving otherwise.

 

I am on jc as well i have many crafters and schems mats for 240s and i dont put on gtn i give them to my guildies.Like i stated before you just say this crap is good because it benefits your pocket no the comunity. just your pocket.

Edited January 30, 2017 by falkron-kerupt

[jedcjedcjedc]

This right here is why people dont want the system fixed. yeah you be helping people on jc at what price rate > if you really wanted to help you would not charge ridiculous prices on your crafted crap.You are just taking advantage of a failed system at all costs and talking much smack with no evidence proving otherwise.

 

I am on jc as well i have many crafters and schems mats for 240s and i dont put on gtn i give them to my guildies.Like i stated before you just say this crap is good because it benefits your pocket no the comunity. just your pocket.

 

Considering I've said free several times now, I'm just going to put you on ignore now. bye bye.

[Magira]

To match the advantage of a premade, solo players needed a gear level that is 50 gear stages above that of the premade. In this respect is still the main problem in the PVP Premade vs. Pug and not the Gear. But here it is exactly the opposite. Premades have by their much better Win% also the better gear.

 

There are games that make it better. In Guild Wars 2 there are no gear differences and Premades do not play against Pugs.

 

I can only advise serious PVP players to go there. This kindergarten here has nothing to do with PVP. My subscription runs out in three weeks and then I will play here only GSF.

[falkron-kerupt]

Considering I've said free several times now, I'm just going to put you on ignore now. bye bye.

 

lol not once did you say free. but ignore me thats fine your still a bad troll,

[snave]

To match the advantage of a premade, solo players needed a gear level that is 50 gear stages above that of the premade. In this respect is still the main problem in the PVP Premade vs. Pug and not the Gear. But here it is exactly the opposite. Premades have by their much better Win% also the better gear.

 

There are games that make it better. In Guild Wars 2 there are no gear differences and Premades do not play against Pugs.

 

I can only advise serious PVP players to go there. This kindergarten here has nothing to do with PVP. My subscription runs out in three weeks and then I will play here only GSF.

 

Hi Magira!

 

This conversation is about gear and bolster. We're all aware of the multitude of other problems in PvP right now and I'm sure most of us agree with you. Please feel free to join any of the dozens of threads about premades to raise that particular point.

 

Also, as a person who runs in a premade a lot of the time I can assure you that even if some pugs had a one button kill move they'd still lose games.

[Magira]

Hi Magira!

 

This conversation is about gear and bolster. We're all aware of the multitude of other problems in PvP right now and I'm sure most of us agree with you. Please feel free to join any of the dozens of threads about premades to raise that particular point.

 

Also, as a person who runs in a premade a lot of the time I can assure you that even if some pugs had a one button kill move they'd still lose games.

 

Hi Mr. Pugstomper,

 

I'm already right here. My suggestion would be to give solo players a better bolster to match the advantage of a premade. That fits well into a Bolster discussion, right?

[snave]

Hi Mr. Pugstomper,

 

I'm already right here. My suggestion would be to give solo players a better bolster to match the advantage of a premade. That fits well into a Bolster discussion, right?

 

Hi Mr Saltyaboutlosinggames,

 

Can you please flesh out how such a bolster system would work? Would you get more bolster for queueing solo? Would certain guilds get down bolstered? I'd love to hear your completely sensible and in no way stupid way of creating a bolster system that works around this.

[Lhancelot]

Hi Mr Saltyaboutlosinggames,

 

Can you please flesh out how such a bolster system would work? Would you get more bolster for queueing solo? Would certain guilds get down bolstered? I'd love to hear your completely sensible and in no way stupid way of creating a bolster system that works around this.

 

I know how! They can have a bolster system that operates off your rating! Rating would be gained/lost, even in regs! So, if you have a high rating, your bolster is less, if you have a low rating you get bolstered high!

 

This would work around solo or group queues too, it would not matter as bolster would tailor fit every player according to their rating on that particular toon!

[snave]

I know how! They can have a bolster system that operates off your rating! Rating would be gained/lost, even in regs! So, if you have a high rating, your bolster is less, if you have a low rating you get bolstered high!

 

This would work around solo or group queues too, it would not matter as bolster would tailor fit every player according to their rating on that particular toon!

 

Good luck working that out for regs. Or just bring back 8 man

[Magira]

Hi Mr Saltyaboutlosinggames,

 

Can you please flesh out how such a bolster system would work? Would you get more bolster for queueing solo? Would certain guilds get down bolstered? I'd love to hear your completely sensible and in no way stupid way of creating a bolster system that works around this.

 

Yes, Mr. "Regstar",

 

It really does not matter if premades are padded down or pugs high. The technology to recognize whether someone alone or in group logs in is available. It is not obvious, of course, whether the premade is additionally connected by Voicecomm. This should really be bolstered again.

 

The benefits of a Voicecom Premade are certainly known to you as a beneficiary, right?

 

Btw: My Win% in the GSF as pure Solo Playeris is over 70%, do not worry about my state of mind.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Magira

[Lhancelot]

Good luck working that out for regs. Or just bring back 8 man

 

Ahhh man. That's a really low blow, you should know I get emotional when that topic is brought up! It's pretty clear that will NEVER happen though hence why it's not ever stepping foot on my sig again.

 

On this topic, they could secretly keep track of our rating, and then have a secret bolster affect that works as i described... The higher rating you got the weaker bolster you get, low rating grants a stronger bolster!

 

To make it work, they would also have to hide your actual stat values too. Basically the values you could view in the wz would be fake and only for show to placate us nerds who love to look at our numbers.

 

Tell me this wouldn't work?

 

I just solved matchmaking and bolster problems with one stone!

[Qwurdilu]

I was pointing out that using mats rather than selling them is a loss regardless of how you look at it which is a pretty simple concept to grasp.

 

How is it a loss? You only need to spend what get as a reward. Its not necessary to play anything but pvp to get them. You didnt get millions for a weekly prior 5.0. What did you think what void matters are for? Did you just assume bioware introduced them because they felt every pvp player should earn millions suddenly??????According to your logic you could also say that players shouldnt invest their warzones credits into stims, which would create an even larger stats gap but at least you wouldnt waste resources, right? Your logic is completely absurd. Btw. Did you already figure out now how much voidmatter you can get?

 

Edit: While talking about newcomer, we should also note that you can buy a full set of augments much cheaper now due to the massive inflation. The price for augments is about the same as 4.0 while new player can earn much more money. But i guess player shouldnt invest here either, its a loss of resources

 

I'm also not complaining about how long it takes to get 240's, never have and in fact said they can increase the time taken to get 242 if they want.

 

Mistake on my part. I didnt express myself good enough there. I wanted to say competetive gear, so gear that makes you able to compete in a fair way. would have been enough to say that though, no need to attack me on a personal level

Edited January 31, 2017 by Qwurdilu

[TrixxieTriss]

Good luck working that out for regs. Or just bring back 8 man

 

+ 1 .. Bring back 8 man ranked

[stoopicus]

Dudes and ladies I just had a *brilliant* idea. To fix this shiat, *all* they have to do is set bolster to something high, I don't know, maybe 250. That way everyone bolsters the same. They could do it in 5.2.

 

GENIUS.

 

Why didn't anyone think of this before? People might even play alts, because the grind pressure would be reduced!

 

Oh wait, I answered my own question, nevermind.

 

Never happen.

[snave]

How is it a loss?

 

Ok so let me try and explain this again. It's a pretty simple point but I must have explained it poorly.

 

If I sold the mats rather than use them for mods / enhancements would I have more money than if I didn't? Pretty sure anyone can see that's a loss.

 

 

Edit: While talking about newcomer, we should also note that you can buy a full set of augments much cheaper now due to the massive inflation. The price for augments is about the same as 4.0 while new player can earn much more money. But i guess player shouldnt invest here either, its a loss of resources

 

Buying = loss of credits in case you missed my above example.

 

Assumption (low) of 1 million per mod = 9 million. Multiply that by number of alts, add in enhancements and you get an idea on how expensive it is.

 

Mistake on my part. I didnt express myself good enough there. I wanted to say competetive gear, so gear that makes you able to compete in a fair way. would have been enough to say that though, no need to attack me on a personal level

 

I want cheaper basic gear. I said add the reduced cost to the high-end gear if you want. You've continually ignored my points and talked about unrelated topics for 10 pages.

 

I've also never attacked you on a personal level, I asked if you had trouble understanding because English isn't your first language. That's offering help, not insulting.

 

Conversations with you are completely pointless because I spend 90% of my time talking about unrelated topics to this thread. You make inflammatory comments and try to make out like I'm intentionally misleading people and giving false statistics. I'm 100% done with you, make up whatever nonsense you want about whatever topics you want, talking to you is like playing snooker with a piece of string.

 

If people want to understand what I'm saying they can just read my posts.

[TrixxieTriss]

Edit: While talking about newcomer, we should also note that you can buy a full set of augments much cheaper now due to the massive inflation. The price for augments is about the same as 4.0 while new player can earn much more money. But i guess player shouldnt invest here either, its a loss of resources

 

The cost of Augments and Augment kits depends on the server and also what Augments you need.

Kits on Harbinger yesterday were 175k each. Overkill Augments were 198k each, Crit Augments 90k. Not sure about the others.

That can be pretty expensive for people who only pvp. Not everyone spends money to buy cartel packs or farm mats to craft. If you are a casual and only jump onto pvp a few hours at a time, the last thing you want to do is play the GTN market or farm mats, especially if the pops are fast.

Add to the poor gearing system and people are needing to pay to buy crafted items that can be between 80k-1.75mil per piece, and the whole system is completely geared to "pay to play" or for people who have 40 hours or more a week who can also farm mats and play the GTN (that's if you know how)

 

I think a lot of people don't realise that even having 1 mil in credits for some players is a lot. Pvp hardly gives any credits these days, add to the fact that each WZ health or adrenal is now 1k and all of a sudden casuals have no credits.

If the RNG gods smile on you, then you will have it easy, but if like most people you get nothing, then gearing to 230 will take months and possibly more than a year to 240

In the mean time those people are getting steam rolled, not because they are underskilled, but because of a gear gap.

That scenario is a recipe for disaster for the health of pvp in this game. Nobody likes losing, especially because of gear and if you lose a lot of matches you won't gear as fast as those who win and don't even need the extra rewards because they are already geared. Eventually even the most dedicated pvpers are going to say "enough is enough" and stop playing. Any newbie pvpers will just put it in the "too hard box" and move on.

 

This new system might suit some people and they may not see an issue with it. A lot of other people can see the big picture if you stand back and look at how it effects everyone and not just a few who see no problem with it.

Bolster is supposed to close the gear gap so that pvp is more about skill vs skill, not gear vs gear, it is the reason they introduced it in the first place. Now they are turning back the clock and creating a gear gap again. But to make matters worse they make the gearing up extremely difficult for new players and very slow. This compounds the whole problem and it's not just about Bolster anymore.

 

Bioware themselves realised all of this back in 3.3. You only need to look at the patch notes. This whole system is a complete 180 on what they said was needed for people to enjoy pvp.

Edited January 31, 2017 by TrixxieTriss