Explain to me why do we need a MBA to understand gearing up now?

[TrixxieTriss]

Ha!

 

In all seriousness though, there's still a lot of unanswered questions. One that keeps coming up is what *exactly* can you turn in as T1 gear to get T2 gear?

 

The dev post only mentions turning in T1 gear bought FROM THE VENDOR to get T2 gear from the vendor.

 

A lot of players (myself included) are assuming that you will be able to turn in the current T1 set pieces from the crates too. The problem is, THE DEVS DID NOT SAY THIS. They only mention turning in the T1 shell bought from the gear vendor. So it is kind of ambiguous.

 

And then there's the other T1 shells, green (228) and blue or purple non-set (230). What about those? *Everyone* disintegrates the green and blue ones once they are in 230 mods yanked from the drops, and/or rank 50 or so and getting purples. If it turns out those actually had turnin value, a lot of people will be very surprised, and not in a good way.

 

Guess we'll find out on the 24th

[stoopicus]

Guess we'll find out on the 24th

 

Yup. Requests to clarify are being pretty much ignored. Tuesday's gonna be a sea of QQ one way or the other.

[CooperReagly]

The new system was designed because the old one was too confusing. Good grief. BW is so lost.

[mike_carton]

Ops = Gear Tokens

 

PvP = Components

 

CXP = Command Tokens

 

Components = Gear Token + Command Points = Gear

 

Gear + Components = Gear Token + Command Points = Better Gear

 

Not true. Goes to show this is a convoluted system. (What are "Command Points"? CXP?) Try this:

 

Op = Tier 1 or 2 or 3 Gear Token (SM, HM or NiM)

 

PvP and GSF = Components

 

CXP = Command Tokens

 

Tier 1 Gear Token = Multiple Components

 

Tier 1 Gear = Tier 1 Gear Token + Command Tokens

 

Tier 2 or 3 Gear Token = Tier 1 or 2 Gear + Multiple Components

 

Tier 2 or 3 Gear = Tier 2 or 3 Gear Token + Command Tokens

Edited January 22, 2017 by mike_carton

[gordfather]

Someone mentioned a valor requirement. I have been reading but can't see any reference to this so do we need to be a certain level valor?

[IstariZen]

This is really awesome! They just made this entire massive game meaningful in almost every way. Any future content will compliment that. People complaining about how things are designed around long grinds etc: that's what an RPG is and sort of what makes it so much fun. If you had everything you wanted in one day, you would stop playing. Instead, during the slow grind you become an expert and experience depth.

 

I'm happy that the Dev's responded in such a way. And its pretty cool that the people that really care about the game gave constructive feedback and helped improve a pretty awesome foundation (Like I said, the Galactic command stuff made old content relevant and any new content will always compliment it, its a cool design). Thanks BW.

[Wayshuba]

Have you ever tried to explain MMO gearing to someone with no experience what-so-ever, like your GF/Family Member?

 

4.7

 

Q: "How do I get cool stuff?"

A: "So you play the game and you get crystals/comms depending on the difficulty. Then you find a vendor that suits the gear you need."

Q: "How do I know what gear I need?"

A: "Well you need to find the gear with stats that suit your role, since you're DPS you want gear with crit, accuracy and alacrity"

A: "Oh, and don't use green crystals on gear. Save those for companion gifts.

Q: "What's that?"

A: "You buy them from that other vendor and give them to your companion so it grows stronger"

Q: "Ok... Where are the vendors again?"

A: "Vendors are in the fleet"

Q: "And how do I get the good crystals, you know the non-green ones and the "comms"?"

A: "You get the non-green ones from flashpoints and other challenging activities, and comms from PvP".

A: "And comms vendors give you different gear PvP with a PvP stat called expertise. But they also give set bonuses".

Q: "uh ok... How do I know which set bonus gear to get?"

A: "Well you find gear that suits the abilities you use, look at your hotkey bar for the ability names and find sets that relate to that ability"

 

5.1

 

Q: "How do I get cool stuff?"

A: "So you play the game and you get command crates, those will have the gear you need."

 

Oh god. I am cleaning coffee off my keyboard after reading this.

 

Pre-5.0 - How do you get gear? Answer: Have you played any other MMO before. They say Yes, then you say it works the same way. Earn a specific currency and buy what you need.

 

Post 5.0 How do you get gear? Well, you grind these levels and get a crate that most likely 95% of the time will have garbage in it. And when you don't get what you need, go read the stuff on the website that takes a half an hour to understand how to just get a piece of gear.

 

Guess what... they are introducing this mess because people are NOT getting the gear from the crates. And rather than do something simple like reduce the CxP t oa cap of 2,000 per level (which is what you will earn in an hour in casual play) and fixing the RNG to remove all the junk and just have it drop gear and schematics, they introduce the most convoluted gearing scheme ever. It is TERRIBLE game design that anyone past game design 101 would not implement. Oh and guess what, we are not done yet. They is still more convoluted junk to go on top of this as acknowledged that there is still stuff to fix.

 

Defend it all you want. It is the worst gearing system in an MMO on the market - PERIOD. And I have played a lot of different MMOs.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Wayshuba

[Wayshuba]

This is really awesome! They just made this entire massive game meaningful in almost every way. Any future content will compliment that. People complaining about how things are designed around long grinds etc: that's what an RPG is and sort of what makes it so much fun. If you had everything you wanted in one day, you would stop playing. Instead, during the slow grind you become an expert and experience depth.

 

I'm happy that the Dev's responded in such a way. And its pretty cool that the people that really care about the game gave constructive feedback and helped improve a pretty awesome foundation (Like I said, the Galactic command stuff made old content relevant and any new content will always compliment it, its a cool design). Thanks BW.

 

I am not going to go off on the White Knighting (or sarcasm, I can't tell which). But it did NOT make the old content relevant. It is still old content that now has had TWO gear resets (at 65 and now 70), just to make your grind again to do the SAME CONTENT YOU WERE ABLE TO DO BEFORE 4.0.

 

The content and mechanics of Karagga's was the same at level 50, then 55, then 60, then 65, and now 70. The difference was, at least up until SoR, new Ops and/or Flashpoints were introduced for the level increase. Since 4.0, there has not been any content that justifies an increase in level cap - none at all. It was only increased so BW could reset the gear grind to do the content you were doing before the reset. Because BW believes in this false dichotomy that players chase gear just for the purpose of chasing gear. We chase gear to be able to do NEW, HARDER CONTENT that every company except BW puts into an expansion.

 

It is a false carrot they keep putting out there because they have released so little new group content in a AAA title that they should hang their heads in collective shame versus almost every other MMO on the market today.

 

It is an embarrassment what they have done with the biggest IP in the world.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Wayshuba

[DuckKing]

Gearing in this game is an absolute travesty. Bioware has made so many changes to this game that it has become unrecognizable. When you make so many changes to a service, you lose my trust cause you don't believe in all the previous systems you tried before that didn't work out and you've lost me as a customer. I remember when the cartel market was going through so many changes. Bioware Austin has no clue what they're doing over there.

 

Anyways, glad I quit!

Edited January 22, 2017 by DuckKing

[IstariZen]

I am not going to go off on the White Knighting (or sarcasm, I can't tell which). But it did NOT make the old content relevant. It is still old content that now has had TWO gear resets (at 65 and now 70), just to make your grind again to do the SAME CONTENT YOU WERE ABLE TO DO BEFORE 4.0.

 

The content and mechanics of Karagga's was the same at level 50, then 55, then 60, then 65, and now 70. The difference was, at least up until SoR, new Ops and/or Flashpoints were introduced for the level increase. Since 4.0, there has not been any content that justifies an increase in level cap - none at all. It was only increased so BW could reset the gear grind to do the content you were doing before the reset. Because BW believes in this false dichotomy that players chase gear just for the purpose of chasing gear. We chase gear to be able to do NEW, HARDER CONTENT that every company except BW puts into an expansion.

 

It is a false carrot they keep putting out there because they have released so little new group content in a AAA title that they should hang their heads in collective shame versus almost every other MMO on the market today.

 

It is an embarrassment what they have done with the biggest IP in the world.

 

There was no sarcasm. I have played lots of MMO's and a lot of games. I understand enough to know what playing an MMO through significant change feels like or playing through a content drought. Neither are fun initially. I have the benefit of haven taken a break around the time KoTFE released and prior to that I only played for about a year. Things are not as bad as people are making it seem. For a new player or returning player, this is one of the best gaming experiences around.

 

I almost did not resub because of all of the complaints about the system. I do think this community cares a lot about this game, but also express it poorly. Some just chime in to the negativity. People want more OPs and MMO content and I agree that it is important to have that. I am sure BW gets that now as well, but there will always be down time after its released. People end up farming the same raid until the next patch.

 

Let me tell you what I see,

The current design seems to encourage doing whatever you want, knowing that you are working towards making your character more powerful. How is that bad? Introduce a new OP, and the 5.1 changes, and its probably not going to feel a lot different than in the past. I see one benefit though over other systems though: You dont have to wait for your team every week to keep progressing or you could supplement something else that you have wanted to do for a while but didn't find it rewarding. Everything you do now moves you forward. Maybe you wanted to run around different worlds doing heroic quest and grabbing datacrons, but never felt like you could sacrifice that time? Or maybe flash-points were below you? Unless I am misunderstanding something, this seems incredibly cool.

 

Of course, for players that are feeling the content drought, new content will help make all the difference. And It seems like this is all leading up to new OPs etc.

Edited January 22, 2017 by IstariZen

[Wayshuba]

There was no sarcasm. I have played lots of MMO's and a lot of games. I understand enough to know what playing an MMO through significant change feels like or playing through a content drought. Neither are fun initially. I have the benefit of haven taken a break around the time KoTFE released and prior to that I only played for about a year. Things are not as bad as people are making it seem. For a new player or returning player, this is one of the best gaming experiences around.

 

I almost did not resub because of all of the complaints about the system. I do think this community cares a lot about this game, but also express it poorly. Some just chime in to the negativity. People want more OPs and MMO content and I agree that it is important to have that. I am sure BW gets that now as well, but there will always be down time after its released. People end up farming the same raid until the next patch.

 

Let me tell you what I see,

The current design seems to encourage doing whatever you want, knowing that you are working towards making your character more powerful. How is that bad? Introduce a new OP, and the 5.1 changes, and its probably not going to feel a lot different than in the past. I see one benefit though over other systems though: You dont have to wait for your team every week to keep progressing or you could supplement something else that you have wanted to do for a while but didn't find it rewarding. Everything you do now moves you forward. Maybe you wanted to run around different worlds doing heroic quest and grabbing datacrons, but never felt like you could sacrifice that time? Or maybe flash-points were below you? Unless I am misunderstanding something, this seems incredibly cool.

 

Of course, for players that are feeling the content drought, new content will help make all the difference. And It seems like this is all leading up to new OPs etc.

 

Okay, the thing is most of the players are veteran players in this game. Veterans who have done the same content over and over and over again hundreds of times with nothing new.

 

Secondly, I respectfully disagree with your assessment of it being one of the best experiences for new players. It is actually one of the worst for new players. Most won't start with subs, they will start as F2P. As soon as they hit that first hump of - what do you mean I have to buy a quickbar - you lost them. I have seen it happen dozens of times already. No other MMO restricts F2P players like this game does - NONE. There is a reason it won the pleasurable award of worst business model.

 

So that then bring us to value for your sub. Everyone who subs is paying $165-$180/year for what? I have seen few MMOs go this long with a major group content drought. We are talking about almost half of this game's entire existence without new group content. In fact, of all the MMOs I have played, I can not think of one, outside of SWTOR, that went TWO years without putting in ANY new group content (and cut-and-paste uprisings do not count).

 

Finally, to your point about waiting for groups. Most MMOs have two paths to gear - the group content and a solo alternative. In TSW for example, you can get the purple drops from NiM dungeons or raids, or you can just save up bullion from regular questing and buy them. So they have a model for both group players and solo. SWTOR had this pre-5.0, now they don't.

 

Even with 5.1, they still don't fix the fundamental issues with raid gearing. Over time, players fall off and new players need to be introduced. Frequently, they are undergeared compared to the regulars so you "power gear" them by running them through raids to catch them up quickly. This is they way it works in almost every MMO except SWTOR 5.0. It shows that they haven't the foggiest clue what goes on with the raiding community.

 

PvP will also become a complete mess because of the gear disparity. When a new player first hits level 70 and maybe has a few command crates and goes into a PvP match versus veterans who have almost fully geared in 242 they are going to have a very bad experience. Before, they would at least be in 204 PvP and very close (gear wise) enough so they could compete.

 

So, 5.0 really doesn't serve the veteran players nor does it benefit new player coming into the game who are going to be frustrated at top level being so far behind everyone who already grinded through many levels of CxP. 5.1 is not going to fix any of that.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Wayshuba

[devincor]

Have you ever tried to explain MMO gearing to someone with no experience what-so-ever, like your GF/Family Member?

 

Yes, I have. Three members of our raid group who happen to be family members, all over the age of 70. I explained the data comms/crystals to them once. They understood it. Now it may be due to me being a Teacher and having patience to explain it fully but they got it pretty quickly. I think after one got their first raid drop piece the only thing I had to show them is where the turn in guy was.

 

This new way is a little messy, kinda like crafting is now. I have to make something before I can make the thing I want.

 

I will give Bioware credit for trying to compromise. They do listen (more so than the players do in many cases). People asked for drops to be put back on Ops bosses and they did give in to an extent. Is it everything the players wanted? no. But that is what compromise is. You don't get everything you want, neither side does.

[merovejec]

Heh, they did say it before that the system was too complex so they had to simplify it

[Eli_Porter]

This new way is a little messy, kinda like crafting is now. I have to make something before I can make the thing I want.

 

Thing is that you don't. Holding onto your components is fine as it reduces your chance of getting a duplicate item from crates, so there's no need to teach newbies about the 5.1 system.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Sundragon]

All this does is give you the option on the low possibility that after getting lots of command crates you are still missing one or two particular items. I don't see anything wrong with it as a SUPPLEMENTAL gearing option. The command crates are the PRIMARY method of gearing and it is extremely easy to understand: open crate, get gear.

 

I mean, with all the complaining about RNG and gearing, I can't believe you guys are complaining about the system that the forum warriors have been begging for, even though they represent probably just 1% of the game's population.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Sundragon

[midianlord]

This wins the thread, because that was their actual reasoning for GC in the first place, but now its a convoluted mess, far more complicated than ever before in the game's history.

 

That's the excuse they used, yes...

 

I'll be a bit nicer than I usually am and not call it an out-and-out lie, but we all know the reality by now.

 

We are in the home-stretch of being groomed for dependence on the cash-shop.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Let me tell you what I see,

The current design seems to encourage doing whatever you want, knowing that you are working towards making your character more powerful. How is that bad?

 

Snip the rest but how is that different from pre 5.0? ONLY difference is now people can get BiS gear which is fine even though the majority of casuals who didn't HM/Nim raid before aren't going to be getting to command rank 180 in a hurry and aren't likely to ever complete a set of 242's due to the horrible rng and now the pvp grind system.

 

Previously you earned crystals or got gear drops from content and got stronger ... what is your point?

 

It's sort of like by adding BiS gear for everyone to get that many people have had the wool pulled over their eyes and somehow think this must be better even though they are gearing slower than ever and most likely won't see BiS gear dropping for a few months after 5.0 launched.

 

Also...

 

"Yay I'm stronger with my BiS gear now I can kill those sky troopoers twice as fast!"

[Eli_Porter]

"Yay I'm stronger with my BiS gear now I can kill those sky troopoers twice as fast!"

 

For me it's "Yay I'm stronger with my T2 gear, getting into operations will be more forgiving now".

[IstariZen]

.......... Edited January 22, 2017 by IstariZen

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For me it's "Yay I'm stronger with my T2 gear, getting into operations will be more forgiving now".

 

Except you could have got ultimate comm ( whatever those crystals were called ) gear much faster than getting to tier 130 and set bonus aside ultimate comm gear would be better than what you have gotten from getting to level 130 I'm sure.

 

Also SM is bolstered so you could have geared up set pieces from just doing operations and they become more forgiving as you do them ( oh and you learn the content ).

 

Nothing is going to be worse than someone in T2 gear that somehow thinks "yay I can do operations easily now" having not really done them before and proceeds to wipe the group. People should be gearing by doing appropriate content if they intend on doing that content - the previous path was perfect for this reason as you learned whilst gearing. Now you can run 1000 exploited fractured runs and be "geared for operations".

[NeuroniaSW]

Just for my own reference. As someone that just does story content and never OPs and just very occasionally warzones, do I need to worry about these crates at all? Usual example of gameplay: login, make a new alt, run it through stuff, do some flashpoints, do some GSF/Warzones then log out for a few days.

[stoopicus]

Just for my own reference. As someone that just does story content and never OPs and just very occasionally warzones, do I need to worry about these crates at all? Usual example of gameplay: login, make a new alt, run it through stuff, do some flashpoints, do some GSF/Warzones then log out for a few days.

 

Nope, just get crafted 228 and you're good for any solo/small group PvE content in this game, and it works fine in regs PvP (though is not optimal.)

Edited January 22, 2017 by stoopicus

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Just for my own reference. As someone that just does story content and never OPs and just very occasionally warzones, do I need to worry about these crates at all? Usual example of gameplay: login, make a new alt, run it through stuff, do some flashpoints, do some GSF/Warzones then log out for a few days.

 

Not at all, you can just play the game.

 

The problem is the many people like you who then also have a "but it's there ... I MUST get it all" attitude that allows this sort of system to remain in place. "I hate GC! I can't believe I got 300 levels in it and didn't get my full set and all I do is solo story!" - as long as people participate in it that don't need to then Ben can twist metrics to show that people actually are liking GC

 

Sort of like Pokémon syndrome ( lol that word auto corrected with the Chrome in built dictionary ) ... gotta catch em all.

[jimmorrisson]

Just for my own reference. As someone that just does story content and never OPs and just very occasionally warzones, do I need to worry about these crates at all?

 

Usual example of gameplay: login, make a new alt, run it through stuff, do some flashpoints, do some GSF/Warzones then log out for a few days.

 

I wish I was you

Edited January 23, 2017 by jimmorrisson

[mike_carton]

Just for my own reference. As someone that just does story content and never OPs and just very occasionally warzones, do I need to worry about these crates at all? Usual example of gameplay: login, make a new alt, run it through stuff, do some flashpoints, do some GSF/Warzones then log out for a few days.

 

 

In your place I'd get the 210 rating item modifications from the vendor on the fleet when the character is eligible to use them. After that, I'd just check every drop (gear item) against the currently equipped item to see if the drop is better or if I should vendor the drop. No need to craft or buy from GTN. Certainly no need to grind the CXP.