Why all the hate?

[Xo-Lara]

See, that's what I meant earlier. You are looking at it from only your perspective. "I'm having fun so others should be to." There are people who dislike the whole concept pf chapters, never had interest in them, like the idea but hated the execution, spacebar through all the cutscenes in game, etc. Your having fun doesn't change or even influence those experiences and it doesn't invalidate them either.

 

I like the statement's from another game developer that was shared in another thread. Regarding player criticism he said:

the symptoms described will almost always be right, and the diagnosis will often be wrong.

 

To related it to what we are talking about, a player saying their is no new content is right and wrong. They are right in that for players who play like them, there is no new content: symptom. However, they are wrong in saying that there is no new content period: diagnosis.

 

It's not that the Devs haven't done anything; they haven't satisfied the needs of that particular playstyle. However, those players are dead on accurate about devs not satisfying the need of that playstyle. They wouldn't have their fur rubbed backwards if they were satisfied.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara

[Radzkie]

I suppose, I am having fun with the chapters. I just don't get why some people are not more happy. Those chapters are a ton of new content. I never played. Yes like end game raiding could use a major boost.

 

I *********** loved the chapters, but I blew through them quickly. There's not that much for someone like myself who loves them and will play for a couple hours at a time.

 

The two other new things are uprisings and the gearing system. The gearing is terrible for vets, and uprisings are short and few.

 

Plus if you compare SWTOR to FF14 it's frustrating for some people. Both are AAA MMO's, but FF14 releases content for ALL parts of it's game consistently(including LARGE amounts of story at once), whereas SWTOR releases content for only parts of it's game. Meaning FF14 patches and expansions are much, much bigger than SWTOR's.

[Xo-Lara]

There is also the issue of SWTOR building new features centered on running old content such as Galactic Command and Light vs Dark. This burns some people who are tired of doing that old content already.

[Narrowsws]

There is also the issue of SWTOR building new features centered on running old content such as Galactic Command and Light vs Dark. This burns some people who are tired of doing that old content already.

 

I can totally understand that. I suppose from my view. I haven't done any chapters for several months. I was surprised honestly they had this much content. I suppose my feeling on story and choice is different someone focused on just end game raiding. I do like how they do the "Light side is stronger" much of these stuff including "commands" didn't exist a year or two ago.

[DariusCalera]

There is also the issue of SWTOR building new features centered on running old content such as Galactic Command and Light vs Dark. This burns some people who are tired of doing that old content already.

 

Well it's not just that but many of BW's previous additions to the game encouraged people to play alts. With the new Galactic Command and the RNG crates the game has become a lot less alt friendly.

 

The new system pushes people to play a single toon a lot more since new gear, aside from buying it off the GTN, only comes from the crates. So people with 5, 10, or more alts, and there are some out there, are suddenly forced to play a single character.

 

I think BW's new business strategy is focused on finding the longest possible grind there is.

Edited January 14, 2017 by DariusCalera

[Xo-Lara]

I think the company's strategy is to make players grind so that they stay around longer before getting a reward. Squeeze the most money possible out of the player. Not to mention spend the least amount of time on developing various aspects of the game. You have rails; be happy on your rails.

 

However, I do think the company will feel the pinch when the last round of 6 month subs run out and many of those people don't renew. Players may have their attention then.

[ArkhaanPremiare]

The game is bad. The developers are more focused on keeping players busy than they are on making the game as good as possible.

[Xo-Lara]

I would argue that the game was good and recent decisions are overwriting the previous good design with bad or questionable design.

[Lium]

Everyone plays the game for different reasons and has a different experience. It might be good for your game play goals in the game but it's not for the people that are unhappy now. Ask all the disgruntled people what the problem is and you get a variety of answers. Each person plays the game to get something a little different out of it.

 

The companions are fine for me, but the game feels like it being made for only one playstyle, one I don't have fun with. I play for the fluff stuff and that is getting gated and cut out hard. No amount of ops or pvp will fix this for me, but I'm just as unhappy with the state of things as the people who hate GC or the lack of new ops.

 

MMOs should be a place where people who play differently can inhabit the same game. SWTOR, on the other hand, feels more and more like there is only Bioware Approved play. Don't you dare try to have fun any other way. This is why I will probably be gone after the next maintenance. I will probably lose forum access. Buying a sub for a game I'm not interested in anymore makes no sense.

No offense, but this is exactly how MMOs get shut down.

 

By catering to a lot of play styles you end up displeasing everyone. And no one is happy. Several MMOs have tried this approach over the years. None were successful. The MMOs that are successful know exactly who they are and who their player base is. Look at LOTRO and EVE. They carved out niches for themselves and make content for that niche.

 

BioWare has recognized that a large portion of this player base plays for the story. These forums are not indicative of the larger playerbase. Check out their social media pages. They recently tweeted out a question asking what everyone's favorite planet was. Lots of engagement with that- as in likes, shares and tetweets. And a lot of comments.

 

That same question asked here would get MAYBE a few posts actually answering the question. The rest would be complaints about GC, RNG, lack of ops, etc. That's the difference.

 

And by the way, I'm not entirely happy with the game. But my gripes are more about technical stuff and more overall engagement with this game's community and with Star Wars in general.

[Xo-Lara]

If MMOs never successfully catered to multiple playstyles, they would have never gotten in the habit of adding content beyond raiding. PvP is a very popular playstyle, it is not raiding though. Raiding is the traditional MMO core, would you advocate SWTOR cut PvP just to appeal to one core demographic? Expanding to attract other playstyles is part of what let them grow beyond obscurity. Edited January 14, 2017 by Xo-Lara

[Andryah]

Well it's not just that but many of BW's previous additions to the game encouraged people to play alts. With the new Galactic Command and the RNG crates the game has become a lot less alt friendly.

 

The new system pushes people to play a single toon a lot more since new gear, aside from buying it off the GTN, only comes from the crates. So people with 5, 10, or more alts, and there are some out there, are suddenly forced to play a single character.

 

I disagree with this assessment. I, and many others are in fact playing alts as much as ever. But these are players that quickly figured out that you did not need GC to play in 5.0. In fact, I have 3 alts that are more alternate mains then actual alts.. largely in 240 gear already... and that's without grinding GC in any way. The rest are in 228s, as they are actual alts that simply do not need anything better for the duration of 5.0

 

Now.. players that feel their only access to gear is grinding GC.. yeah.. they will feel this way. But it really is an uninformed approach to the broken state of GC.

[FerkWork]

I just find it a giant comedy now. Any point to be serious was 2-3 years ago when this game could be taken seriously as an MMO. It's now good for laughs for the last rounds of milking. :^

[Andryah]

I think the company's strategy is to make players grind so that they stay around longer before getting a reward. Squeeze the most money possible out of the player. Not to mention spend the least amount of time on developing various aspects of the game. You have rails; be happy on your rails.

 

However, I do think the company will feel the pinch when the last round of 6 month subs run out and many of those people don't renew. Players may have their attention then.

 

I think they are actually still tinkering to find the sweet spot in terms of retaining players while still interesting players enough to sub.

 

Each expac has represented a slightly different approach.

 

For example: some players proved with 4.0 that they would just game the subscription option to gather up multiple chapters under one month of sub. The studio admitted this and acknowledged that many MMO players these days are binge players.. looking for new content, to consume new content ASAP, and then hit a wall and wonder why they are unhappy.

 

Now.. the long absence of new Operations represents a different example: About the time the studio stopped releasing new OPs... they also declared there would never be new NiMs.. period. This to me says they have come to the conclusion that for the business model of this MMO.. there is limited return on investment in putting the heavy effort required for good new OPs. So they stopped, and now they appear to be trying in 5.0 to make more group content that is challenging enough and interesting enough to largely replace OPs.. and at reduced effort.

 

The above examples are certainly not acceptable to every player. I get that, and honestly I think the studio does as well. It would help if they were more transparent about this... as it would help people get off of the "hope bandwagon" which is nothing but a time release hate and rage pill some players are on right now.

 

While I do not think every choice by the studio is good, I do applaud their willingness to pursue certain themes in their development efforts fairly consistently: 1) continuing to make QoL changes to the game, particularly in context of new content (take the heroics in 4.0 as one example). 2) making changes, even if only on a limited time basis, that give players more degrees of freedom in how they play (such as low cost server transfers, and the ability to buy/sell CM items so that no player is directly dependent on buying and spending CCs). 3) introducing new forms of content themes (such as the story arcs in chapters in 4.0 and 5.0. and GC in 5.0... though they failed on implementation on GC badly).

 

Of course no matter what a studio does or does not do, some players will like, some will love, some will not like, and some will hate. No MMO is perfect, so they all represent trade-offs for players to consider and to make for themselves. For example... a lot of players are applauding and holding up FFXIV and ESO as brilliant MMOs that cater to end game raiding. For people that prefer to raid or die.. I can see why they would do this. But if you are more interested in great story arcs, and plenty of solo and small group play, in an actual Sci Fi theme, particularly a much loved lore like Star Wars..... FFXIV and ESO are pretty much non-starters. Raiders tend to see the world only from their viewpoint.. and disregard and dismiss the fact that a large majority of MMO players simply are not progression raiders. The same applies for PvP.. as this particular MMO has never been a good PvP MMO in my experience. PvP has always been sub par in this MMO.. and 5 years in.. people still expecting and demanding it be a good PvP MMO.. are simply not being realistic about it.

 

Hate is an unchecked emotional outburst, driven by frustration(s) that are not being coped with well by the individual. But this is the nature of humans... some handle frustrations better then others, and some take their gaming way too seriously and behave like it's real life and deserving of a crisis style lash out of behavior. So.. people are going to say some pretty terrible things in the forum as they express their frustrations. Likewise, people are going to disagree with them, and those feeling hateful will take that as a lack of validation and then lash out at anyone who disagree with them. This really is a question of an individuals emotional intelligence more then anything else.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Andryah

[RahaylaCora]

I disagree with this assessment. I, and many others are in fact playing alts as much as ever. But these are players that quickly figured out that you did not need GC to play in 5.0. In fact, I have 3 alts that are more alternate mains then actual alts.. largely in 240 gear already... and that's without grinding GC in any way. The rest are in 228s, as they are actual alts that simply do not need anything better for the duration of 5.0

 

Now.. players that feel their only access to gear is grinding GC.. yeah.. they will feel this way. But it really is an uninformed approach to the broken state of GC.

You and other players are the ones in organized guilds (probably large and still alive guilds), working for getting the best gear possible for your group. That is not actual Bioware's target, focused in delivering story experience for solo players (new group content like Uprisings is a bait for people demanding group content). The fact that you get 3 characters in largely 240 means that there are some people in your group that got the right schematics so you all craft what you all need, or money is not a problem for you. So don't translate that your experience can be applied to those players that like to play at his pace, out of a guild and/or in a casual way.

 

Game alt friendly, such a mockery.

[Andryah]

You and other players are the ones in organized guilds (probably large and still alive guilds), working for getting the best gear possible for your group. That is not actual Bioware's target, focused in delivering story experience for solo players (new group content like Uprisings is a bait for people demanding group content). The fact that you get 3 characters in largely 240 means that there are some people in your group that got the right schematics so you all craft what you all need, or money is not a problem for you. So don't translate that your experience can be applied to those players that like to play at his pace, out of a guild and/or in a casual way.

 

Game alt friendly, such a mockery.

 

You realize you just played the "poverty card" here, right? Claiming I only benefit in gearing and playing alts because I either have the credit wealth to do, or the social wealth of an organized guild, or both? Yeah.. right.. because I am somehow doing something that nobody else can do as well.

 

Sorry... but ANY player can in fact play alts @70 as much as they like in 5.0 using crafted 228s. The only exception would be if they are playing an alt as a second main and need BiS gear for said alt... which is the exception not the rule in reality. ANY player can build relationships via a guild or informal group of friends and do exactly the same thing. Any player can in fact gear an alt in fully augmented 228s, and do any content except the most difficult OPs without much issue.

 

Game IS more alt friendly then at any time in it's exisitence. You can level an alt to 70 on nothing but items drops in game, with essentially zero credit expenses, and at a faster pace then at any time in the history of the game. You can in fact run alts at 70 by simply purchasing reasonable priced equipment from the GTN, if you have no access to crafting. You can in fact run multiple level 70 mains on competitive content ... as long as you are part of a good group of like minded folks... and ignore GC completely.

 

I do agree that GC is not alt friendly at this time. But GC is NOT the only pathway to gearing (not that all alts actually need the gear from GC to begin with) .. despite some peoples insistence that it is.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Andryah

[Xo-Lara]

I think they are actually still tinkering to find the sweet spot in terms of retaining players while still interesting players enough to sub.

 

Here I have to disagree. To me it looks like they are looking for the sweet spot of content that will let them puruse the goals I stated earlier. It is fairly blatant to me that they are designing like one with a set budget but don't expect players to spend like they have a set budget. It's lopsided. it appears they want to get the most out of players while giving players as little as possible and are slowly taking away what used to be available towards that end.

 

 

For example: some players proved with 4.0 that they would just game the subscription option to gather up multiple chapters under one month of sub.

Another example of what I mean. They had a working system before the monthly chapters. The idea was to put chapters behind a sub wall then release monthly to get people to sub continuously for just a chapter a month. people who wanted recurring subs probably already had them. People who only wanted the chapter probably felt burned later when they had paid for a month that was not filled by the content they paid the subscription to get.

 

Technically the scheme worked. They released chapters and people bought them. To say it resulted in sales, the plan was oddly abandoned. However, it's only odd if you explain it any other way than players found a workaround and got out of the trick the team tried. I'm sure they abandoned that scheme because it didn't let them get as much as possible while giving as little. Therefore back to the old expansion system they went.

 

Now.. the long absence of new Operations represents a different example: About the time the studio stopped releasing new OPs... they also declared there would never be new NiMs.. period. This to me says they have come to the conclusion that for the business model of this MMO.. there is limited return on investment in putting the heavy effort required for good new OPs. So they stopped, and now they appear to be trying in 5.0 to make more group content that is challenging enough and interesting enough to largely replace OPs.. and at reduced effort.

 

This says to me that Ops are somehow expensive to make and they thought they'd slip in a budget cut then found out it wasn't as economical as they first thought. Some players obviously left by guild fulls and they lost all the revenue from those players rather than saved some by not producing ops. They need to start thinking like the consumer rather than the producer. Make content that feels like a good deal and players will nitpick less about spending money on your product. People get stingy in part because the company is stingy with them.

 

There's no getting around it. The game needs to feel like a good deal like people are getting what they want for their money. It has to. I'll even admit that it doesn't have to actually be a good deal, but it absolutely has to feel like one. Obviously too many people feel like they aren't getting their money's worth for how much the content satisfies them. Considering how many hundreds of dollars some people have spent on this game, that is bad.

 

While I do not think every choice by the studio is good, I do applaud their willingness to pursue certain themes in their development efforts fairly consistently: 1) continuing to make QoL changes to the game, particularly in context of new content (take the heroics in 4.0 as one example). 2) making changes, even if only on a limited time basis, that give players more degrees of freedom in how they play (such as low cost server transfers, and the ability to buy/sell CM items so that no player is directly dependent on buying and spending CCs). 3) introducing new forms of content themes (such as the story arcs in chapters in 4.0 and 5.0. and GC in 5.0... though they failed on implementation on GC badly).

 

I have to mostly disagree here too. Heroic changes I will give you. I like things like outfit designer and strongholds. However, many changes can be linked back to creating problems or leaving problems in a bid to get you to pay to have them fixed. For instance, GC grind: Pay to help alleviate the artificially prolonged grind. Decoration drops from the world: Buy cartel packs to compensate for the fact that drop rates were nerfed and event decorations were bound to character. Server transfers: pay to switch out of a server that has lost many players due to various game changes. They can be a business and make money without stuff like this. This is like how they required a subscription just to submit any kind of bug report for years... No... Just no. -_-

 

Hate is an unchecked emotional outburst, driven by frustration(s) that are not being coped with well by the individual. But this is the nature of humans... some handle frustrations better then others, and some take their gaming way too seriously and behave like it's real life and deserving of a crisis style lash out of behavior. So.. people are going to say some pretty terrible things in the forum as they express their frustrations. Likewise, people are going to disagree with them, and those feeling hateful will take that as a lack of validation and then lash out at anyone who disagree with them. This really is a question of an individuals emotional intelligence more then anything else.

 

The problem is that not every expression of displeasure is unreasoning hate but the company is prompting a significant rise in all kinds of displeasire. In this case, the best solution to the problem is to get at the root. Bioware's design principles have shifted to exploiting, cheating, and witholding from players. They have to stop that. No content dressing, whatever they try, that is based on that design principle will work. It will just breed more resentment, more frustration, more anger and probably more leaving customers. They need to go back to customer service basics and not insist that players will put up with whatever system they are given. All this RNG in bad places is one of the systems they need to overhaul or replace.

[ekwalizer]

The sad part is solo players, were perfectly capable of playing solo from 1.0-3.X. Heck, I'd even back that up some into the late 2.X. Point is, solo players have never not been able to play solo.

 

3.0 did give us two more raids. So, props for that. But everything since 4.0 has been single player only. If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd load up KOTOR I/II. Protip: This is not KOTOR III.

 

Balance is the issue which has a lot of people frustrated. Personally, I will not pay a subscription for what amounts to a single player game. That is what this has become.

 

"But but but, you can go on raids!"

 

Yes, I can go on raids that I cleared in 2012, 2013, 2015. There has been no new raid since 3.0 which released in December 2014.

 

"But but but you can still PvP"

 

Can I? We have an arterial bleed of players. Queue times get longer with each passing day.

 

"But But But you can transfer to Harbinger"

 

I could, but then I am financially supporting compounding piss poor management.

Edited January 15, 2017 by ekwalizer

[FerkWork]

The sad part is solo players, were perfectly capable of playing solo from 1.0-3.X. Heck, I'd even back that up some into the late 2.X. Point is, solo players have never not been able to play solo.

 

3.0 did give us two more raids. So, props for that. But everything since 4.0 has been single player only. If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd load up KOTOR I/II. Protip: This is not KOTOR III.

 

Balance is the issue which has a lot of people frustrated. Personally, I will not pay a subscription for what amounts to a single player game. That is what this has become.

 

"But but but, you can go on raids!"

 

Yes, I can go on raids that I cleared in 2012, 2013, 2015. There has been no new raid since 3.0 which released in December 2014.

 

"But but but you can still PvP"

 

Can I? We have an arterial bleed of players. Queue times get longer with each passing day.

 

"But But But you can transfer to Harbinger"

 

I could, but then I am financially supporting compounding piss poor management.

 

Le wise Sage . The key to being a theme park it is to have more than one attraction otherwhise it becomes a one trick pony. I said it when 4.0 launched and it looks like for 5.0 the pony is Uprisings. A lesson they never learned. Even 3.0 had this with PvP. I miss 2.0... well maybe cause I loved old Anni But alas it is futile and we can only watch the final act of this comedy. In the meantime I have some cheivios still to get :^

Edited January 15, 2017 by FerkWork

[tierzah]

for me....it was 1st 2.0 F2P, then killin off having Hybrids on skill tree (hybrids imp op agents were just nasty 8)), no new classes (would love to play a stormtrooper, or an SIS agent), taking away my "right hand of jadas" title, getting mail and in chat spam for cheap creds every 20 sec.....and most of all khelm

 

the good...storylines most were good like the agent, inq (poor khelm and zash) , merc and smuggler . did some classes story 2 to 3 times. the *** and OMG when a storyline catches u off guard. if ur willing to put in the time, u didn't need raids to get top end gear. the "special snowflake" title.... thermal detonators to hutt's (or other forms of watching them die)....jaesa, kaliyo (most agent companions were good, vector can just die), mako, guss and vetta..agent class....lana and same sex romances in later expansions.

[DreadtechSavant]

I do get the hate, I really do. As others have said we all have different play styles and different ways to enjoy the game. So if the area a player enjoys is beaning neglected? As said I understand why.

 

The issue for me on these forums is that some players have had nothing but negative posts for as long as I have been playing. 3 years now. Not a single positive post by some. If the game is that bad why stay? That is a better question. Most players will have a balanced posting history of good and bad, or positive/negative. Others? no every single post! It defies logic and reason to stay playing a game or returning to post on a forum to a game you hate that much.

[Xo-Lara]

I do get the hate, I really do. As others have said we all have different play styles and different ways to enjoy the game. So if the area a player enjoys is beaning neglected? As said I understand why.

 

The issue for me on these forums is that some players have had nothing but negative posts for as long as I have been playing. 3 years now. Not a single positive post by some. If the game is that bad why stay? That is a better question. Most players will have a balanced posting history of good and bad, or positive/negative. Others? no every single post! It defies logic and reason to stay playing a game or returning to post on a forum to a game you hate that much.

 

There's as many possible reasons for this as their are people in the world, but one reason is that they know the game has the potential to do better and be fun for them. It just doesn't ever get there. After a while, it looks so close that it feels like the game is taunting them. True, the best solution is to move on, but those people aren't ready to give up hope that things will change. They don't actually want to abandon the game.

 

Really, hope and attachment are the root of a lot of the rage. Apathy will prompt a person to move on. However, apathy is also what kills games. The toxicity is bad but you actually don't want players to become completely apathetic about it. Once people don't care they take their money and leave.

 

I think player apathy is what Bioware is toying with now and I wish they would stop. I may not like where the game is headed, but I don't want to see it completely die off. That's a lot of effort to waste. They need avoid forcing that kind of detachment in players.

[Narrowsws]

This game was the most expensive MMO in history. I understand some of the hate. I really don't think players would want the game to be killed off. I myself just complain sometimes about small things to bring attention to it. There seems to be a steady increase in the remarks to outright hostile. Not saying, no one can complain about anything. There are very very valid reasons to complain.

 

I was browning silently as I most often do reading responses. There is a disagreement then there is wishing doom on the future of the game maybe they didn't add an ops. Or perhaps maybe I just have a tiny bit more patience since I took a long extended break for about a year. Or many people complain like this normally and I just never realized it. I'm happy so far with the chapters.

 

No boring grind to get "fun part". When you play someone new from level 1. There's a sense you have to do the grind to get to the story. I was here at very start when this game first launched. Before there was any music or command center etc. There are improvements since then. It's something I find interesting that's all.

[Xo-Lara]

Or perhaps maybe I just have a tiny bit more patience since I took a long extended break for about a year. Or many people complain like this normally and I just never realized it. I'm happy so far with the chapters.

...

No boring grind to get "fun part". When you play someone new from level 1. There's a sense you have to do the grind to get to the story. I was here at very start when this game first launched. Before there was any music or command center etc. There are improvements since then. It's something I find interesting that's all.

 

 

Taking a break will help some depending on what frustrated you. Many people do complain like this normally, and many players were not here from launch. They will never be able to have the experience with the game you have had. You'll have to look beyond your own experience to understand.

 

Regardless of how badly some people are acting, the larger driver is not that some people are toxic but that an environment good for breeding and maintaining that toxicity exists, now that I think about it. Much of the toxicity is bred by the way game pits players against each other.

 

Pick any gripe on the forum and you will likely be able to watch it descend into players ignoring the gripe to take chunks out of each other. There is a desperation and scarcity of request fulfillment around here. Players strangle each other's points of view and concerns in an attempt to limit the amount of requests getting to the devs. The idea is, presumably, that fewer requests means better odds for the requests that make it. That's not how it actually works though.

 

Players get so caught up in eliminating their "enemies" that they can't present coherent and consistent complaints to the team. They also prevent other people with opposing views from doing that by derailing discussions. Then the net result is that things in the game continue on as usual while players undermine each other instead of work together.

 

This breeds lingering resentments against people who have a different perspective or complaint. This keeps players more focused on other players instead of their issues. People may leave in disgust before seeing whether or not their request made a difference and so on.

 

Players did not create this impression that only a handful of requests will ever get moved on but as you can see, they really responded to it. I know the team probably doesn't mean to be evil and pit people against each other, but let's not pretend like the platform they set up doesn't fuel that very environment. Things like the sub wall instead of just a payment wall and sub only forums does help set up a class system within the player base.

 

That brings me to the sub-non sub divide. The way that players get treated causes the desperation to get whatever crumbs that fall from the table. Many subs respond to this scarcity by trying to step on non subs to increase their own chances to get one of the crumbs. Again, that's not how it actually works out. Look at how subs get treated post KOTFE and KOTET. Effectively they get nickeled and dimed like non subs used to be since non subs have basically been pushed out of the equation. Trying to ice out non subs had the opposite effect.

 

Further, all that approach really does is allow the team to keep heir hands free of the matter while those kind of subs do the work of quashing anyone who isn't a sub for nothing... no reward whatsoever. The end result is that subs don't necessarily get better incentives, non subs end up having to battle subs instead of focus on the game issues, and all players continue to be treated poorly as they can't focus on making a unified demand for better regard.

 

This is the kind of stuff that produces and maintains a healthy population of raging forum goers and raging players who have access to other platforms. It builds conflict and an adversarial perspective into the system. it even leads to a player vs Dev environment. A game really shouldn't be a battlefield except in PvP and PvE.

[Narrowsws]

Taking a break will help some depending on what frustrated you. Many people do complain like this normally, and many players were not here from launch. They will never be able to have the experience with the game you have had. You'll have to look beyond your own experience to understand.

 

Regardless of how badly some people are acting, the larger driver is not that some people are toxic but that an environment good for breeding and maintaining that toxicity exists, now that I think about it. Much of the toxicity is bred by the way game pits players against each other.

 

Pick any gripe on the forum and you will likely be able to watch it descend into players ignoring the gripe to take chunks out of each other. There is a desperation and scarcity of request fulfillment around here. Players strangle each other's points of view and concerns in an attempt to limit the amount of requests getting to the devs. The idea is, presumably, that fewer requests means better odds for the requests that make it. That's not how it actually works though.

 

Players get so caught up in eliminating their "enemies" that they can't present coherent and consistent complaints to the team. They also prevent other people with opposing views from doing that by derailing discussions. Then the net result is that things in the game continue on as usual while players undermine each other instead of work together.

 

This breeds lingering resentments against people who have a different perspective or complaint. This keeps players more focused on other players instead of their issues. People may leave in disgust before seeing whether or not their request made a difference and so on.

 

Players did not create this impression that only a handful of requests will ever get moved on but as you can see, they really responded to it. I know the team probably doesn't mean to be evil and pit people against each other, but let's not pretend like the platform they set up doesn't fuel that very environment. Things like the sub wall instead of just a payment wall and sub only forums does help set up a class system within the player base.

 

That brings me to the sub-non sub divide. The way that players get treated causes the desperation to get whatever crumbs that fall from the table. Many subs respond to this scarcity by trying to step on non subs to increase their own chances to get one of the crumbs. Again, that's not how it actually works out. Look at how subs get treated post KOTFE and KOTET. Effectively they get nickeled and dimed like non subs used to be since non subs have basically been pushed out of the equation. Trying to ice out non subs had the opposite effect.

 

Further, all that approach really does is allow the team to keep heir hands free of the matter while those kind of subs do the work of quashing anyone who isn't a sub for nothing... no reward whatsoever. The end result is that subs don't necessarily get better incentives, non subs end up having to battle subs instead of focus on the game issues, and all players continue to be treated poorly as they can't focus on making a unified demand for better regard.

 

This is the kind of stuff that produces and maintains a healthy population of raging forum goers and raging players who have access to other platforms. It builds conflict and an adversarial perspective into the system. it even leads to a player vs Dev environment. A game really shouldn't be a battlefield except in PvP and PvE.

 

That was really well said. I wish I could translate my thoughts into writing that easily. Well done.

[Foambreaker]

I get it people are frustrated. I myself left some time before anarchy storyline. Around that time they provided a generous boost to companions health. However not was all well in the Kingdom, a group of anti fun people set out to destroy the nerf, by complaining day and night here. The Dev's caved. I lost interest shortly after.

 

I warned people the nerf on companions ..would cause people to lost interest. However the chapters are great. I enjoy the solo play. I like being able to dive into each chapter without the need for an elite group each time. I can progress naturally through the story on my own.

 

I'd noticed though. People almost daily seem to be discouraged. I understand RNG sucks or more PVP content. Take it from someone who left before majority of chapters were installed. The game itself has improved. It may not be perfect. It's much better then it was at launch.

 

Simple, some people think the game is a measure of real life self worth; getting RL ego boosts and taking RL depression hits.

 

This very very unhealthy practice leads to forum "discussions" that are way overblown, after all peope's self worth is on the line.