EtherealSlasher Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) One thing I have always wondered since playing this game is why do so many support the Empire? When playing through all 8 class stories as well as all the story content afterwards, I have a hard time seeing why so many people with different principles serve the Empire and even allowing the Sith to rule the empire. You encounter people with principles that serve the empire to help people, but it openly endorses slavery and will not bat an eye to executing someone just for speaking out against it. You also have people who are so loyal that they would kill/imprison their own family members for the sake of their duty towards the empire. I just don't understand why a person with a good morality and respect for others would assist the empire. Then you have the Sith order where most do not even care about the people of the Empire itself and often intimidates even the most high ranking and loyal individuals and people for some reason serve them despite their selfish and violent tendencies. Now I know the Republic is not perfect, in fact, there are lots of things in the game that shows there are some corrupt individuals that take advantage of the people, but as a whole they support independence, equality, and respect towards those who are loyal to it. I get that people would support the empire if they feel like the Sith are superior beings when compared to everyone else, but I'm sure all the moffs could easily gather the military that many sith treat like trash and make the empire a more respectable faction by booting them out or at least intimidate them into giving up their authority and find power elsewhere or just become a connection like the jedi are to the republic. Edited December 23, 2016 by EtherealSlasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Moffs do it because they can usually avoid the ire of the Sith. Sith may consider themselves top of the food chain, but they don't tend to just execute Moffs willy nilly (directly anyways). Other officers feel they can work their way up. Other people just figure they need to make the best of a lousy situation. What gets me, is when the players say it's the best with all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisemandragonexx Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Remember that the empire was completely isolated until it invaded the republic at the start of the trailers. As in, the rest of the Galaxy wasn't aware of the empire until it captured Korriban. Also, the Emperor is essentially revered as a god among his people up until Ziost and they've probably been indoctrinated in it's culture since birth, led to believe that the republic and aliens are the enemy's of a stable society. A comparison could be made to Nazi Germany. For most of the time the Nazi's were in power, the people willfully ignored their atrocities and racism until the cognitive dissonance grew too high or were too intimidated to speak out against them (people were encouraged to tattle on their peers). It's not an out of the blue comparison either. The Galactic Empire and First Order are basically space Nazi's. In regards to the sith and other supporters, a comparison could be made to the Nazi leadership. There were Nazi leaders who did confess that they didn't believe in the whole master race ideology and only went along with it for their career and profit. I'm willing to bet that many sith simply don't care about the empire beyond what it can do for them. They all want power, and only support the system because it's the best path to power available to most of them. Which since the Sith are power-hungry personified, leads to tons of infighting, backstabbing, betrayal and assassination. The implication is that Sith society is only barely holding itself together. In the Book of Sith, Mace Windu actually deconstructs the whole "rule by strength" concept: This system is only attractive for the kings. Those beneath them waste their gifts as slaves or pursue the narrow-minded goal of becoming kings themselves. Creativity and industriousness blossom under an open and free system like the Galactic Republic and those qualities inevitably triumph over the monomania of a dictator. Edited December 23, 2016 by Wisemandragonexx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattlebloodMage Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I just check the infographic, and more people play as Sith characters. I personally love the Empire. Republic is so white bread, it's not like you can't play as the good guys in 2000 games out there already. Whenever possible, I love to play as the bad guys. Both Republic and Empire are evil in their own ways if you dive into the game deep enough. The Republic intentionally attack your alliance but secretly support you, they also experiment on aliens just like the Empire but hide it, they also intentionally use people for their own end, even if it would mean using them as the meat shields against the Empire. Yes, the Empire is evil, at least, they're not trying to try their evil and pretend they're the good guys when they're not. Plus, the story for the Sith Empire is just more intriguing with people backstabbing, secrecy, and exposing the Republic for the villain that they are. The game is not good vs. evil, it's who is the lesser of the two evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Krushya Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 In real life, I try to be a good guy. I have my issues, my bad days, etc. I try to respect others and so unto others as I would have them do unto me and such. Sometimes, after a trying day, a play SWTOR and it's just fun to be the bad guy. I can lie, cheat, steal, and kill and get away with it. The Empire faction is a stress relief sometimes. I have all 8 classes and all 16 advanced classes. I do enjoy playing the good guy too. I get to be self-righteous and save the galaxy and do good deeds. Sometimes it makes me feel good. The Republic is fun for me, but the Empire is just more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I just check the infographic, and more people play as Sith characters. I personally love the Empire. Republic is so white bread, it's not like you can't play as the good guys in 2000 games out there already. Whenever possible, I love to play as the bad guys. Both Republic and Empire are evil in their own ways if you dive into the game deep enough. The Republic intentionally attack your alliance but secretly support you, they also experiment on aliens just like the Empire but hide it, they also intentionally use people for their own end, even if it would mean using them as the meat shields against the Empire. Yes, the Empire is evil, at least, they're not trying to try their evil and pretend they're the good guys when they're not. Plus, the story for the Sith Empire is just more intriguing with people backstabbing, secrecy, and exposing the Republic for the villain that they are. The game is not good vs. evil, it's who is the lesser of the two evil. I'd say it's not the lesser of two evils, but rather "The Good Guys with a few bad apples" vs "The Bad Guys with a few good apples" A lot of the bad apples in the Republic happen to be high ranking individuals though. Then of course, there are lots of just innocent people trying to live a decent life. Though, as mentioned in another post, as Elara states herself (and I believe other NPCs) the Empire did give false information about the Republic. Kept their people in line. The Empire is bad and terrible sure, but the Republic is worse! The Empire is North Korea, except the Empire's leader really is close to being a god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtherealSlasher Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) In real life, I try to be a good guy. I have my issues, my bad days, etc. I try to respect others and so unto others as I would have them do unto me and such. Sometimes, after a trying day, a play SWTOR and it's just fun to be the bad guy. I can lie, cheat, steal, and kill and get away with it. The Empire faction is a stress relief sometimes. I have all 8 classes and all 16 advanced classes. I do enjoy playing the good guy too. I get to be self-righteous and save the galaxy and do good deeds. Sometimes it makes me feel good. The Republic is fun for me, but the Empire is just more so. You misunderstand, I was asking why do certain types of people in the game support the Empire not why players play for the Empire. Most of my playtime is on the Empire's side and I typically find the 4 Empire classes much more interesting, but whenever I try to play a "good" character it just doesn't make sense why individuals who value equal respect for others or genuine unity support the Empire. There are many intelligent and level headed characters that are proud to fight for the Empire and supporting the notion that the Sith are superior to everyone else. My LS Inquisitor until KOTFE when he became the leader of his own faction and saw that he could do much more good if he cut ties with the Imps and Sith and just did his own thing with the Alliance was for the Empire despite the fact that he was a slave within it and was forced to go through the sith trials on Korriban and experience betrayals and senseless violence wherever he went. The only path good Inquisitors have is attempting to reform the Empire, but the core ideals of the Empire and the Sith will not change no matter how hard he tries to tell them "this is not necessary" or "there are other ways to do this." Eventually my good Empire class characters always conflict with what the typical Imperial/Sith pushes you to do and think whereas with the republic's general culture which is to bring each other up and not cause needless violence when there are clearly other ways to solve certain issues, my Imp characters find they are treated much better compared to the treatment of their own Imperial allies. Of course the jedi certainly have their shortcomings as do the republic. Many jedi hop on the sith hate train where the instant they see a sith they automatically assume they are purely evil and the pubs with their disorder and corruption, but you can't really blame the jedi for assuming due to the typical sith being power hungry anything to get what I want sort of people and no society will ever be absent of corrupt officials, but the moment their corruption is made public the republic will be imprison or execute the the official depending on the severity of their crimes whereas the sith and some Imperial officers are openly corrupt and brutal, but the Empire disregards them so long as they are powerful. What I am saying is that it just seems nonsensical unless most of the imperials are brainwashed/conditioned into being unsympathetic towards the non imperial, blindly following authority no matter what most of the time, and taking extreme methods for the sake of being extreme to rp a character who thinks they are truly doing the right thing in supporting the Imps to take down the pubs. And if it's true that the Empire has not had much outside influence for a long period of time I suppose it would make sense that people within the Empire just naturally accepting the Empire as the faction in the right. To summarize, there are a lot of good people in the Empire but the Empire in general does not even try and justify its methods (slavery, execution on failure/displays of weakness, prejudice towards all things not Imperial, etc.) and I just find it really strange for those people to be like "For the Empire!" despite this. Edit: post above me described what I was trying to say. Ty for simplifying things Edited December 23, 2016 by EtherealSlasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool-dude Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 No idea. You'd think over time the imperial military would get tired of cleaning up the messes of Sith, and dealing with revolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I prefer the stories of the Empire classes than the Republics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeneas_Falco Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Moffs do it because they can usually avoid the ire of the Sith. Sith may consider themselves top of the food chain, but they don't tend to just execute Moffs willy nilly (directly anyways). Other officers feel they can work their way up. Other people just figure they need to make the best of a lousy situation. What gets me, is when the players say it's the best with all that Edgelords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 I prefer the stories of the Empire classes than the Republics. ^This. I didn't like Trooper and Consular. I adored Knight, Warrior, Agent. I liked Smuggler and Inquisitor. Also Vaiken Spacedock is cooler than the Pub version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 What I am saying is that it just seems nonsensical unless most of the imperials are brainwashed/conditioned into being unsympathetic towards the non imperial, That would be a nice dream . To think the Imperials are just afraid to speak up , or brainwashed . Not their faults . But truth is , the Empire will attract those kind of peoples . They aren't brainwashed in the sense like a cult . Where they repeat mantra over and over and do anything without a free will . They aren't indoctrinated by reaper Tech . But such governement will attract those who have the ambitians , it open doors and give tools to those who are willing to do the unethical . And by doing so , they get high grades and stand tall aboves the rest . With that positions they will make sure this Empire that was so generous and helped them to do watever they wanted , stay that way . So those who are against the idea will be silenced and killed . Sith themself are taught that at the academy . In Sith Inquisitor , Lord Zash tell you..all the killing Harkun does as the overseer of the slave shipement . Is to weed out the weaks . Then those Sith will take their birth rights places in politics . And well..there you have it . The Officers and Moff will lick boots and do watever is told of them . Some are loyal to the sith ideals , others try to backstab them and get betrayed and killed . It's an endless circle of do , give , take , hand over , kill , and get killed . And start over with someone else . To summarize, there are a lot of good people in the Empire but the Empire in general does not even try and justify its methods (slavery, execution on failure/displays of weakness, prejudice towards all things not Imperial, etc.) and I just find it really strange for those people to be like "For the Empire!" despite this. It's same old same old . They paint atrocity under a new colors , and justify it . Do that , and peoples will accept anything . Reward them for getting their hands dirty , play on their insecurity , lower their inhibition....and the most saint person will turn a blind eye quickly . Then you have those who are born under that regime . Those are the hardest to 'convert' in a way . because they know nothing else . Someone in their famility tree worked for a moff or a sith or was just an officer...... If they never seen anything else , how they are supposed to change ? when they see slaves and it's normal . Sure they may feel it's wrong , but when you have the whole world where you live against you and closing any door of escape...what are you to do ? Shut up and fall in line . Pretty much all they can do . Anyway , I personally don't find the Empire ideals enticing . The idea of Strengh so far hasn't shown it self . The Empire is plagued by parasites and they dare call themself Strong . They aren't . Slavery , racism and such are all ''weakness'' if we are talking about the Empire is all about Strenght . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 In some ways the Empire is like the DPRK, in other ways it's more like Coca-Cola. But mostly it's like DPRK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Krushya Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Yeah. Okay. I see what you mean now. I did misunderstand now. I'm sorry. You wanted to know why the characters, the NPCs, are loyal to and support the Empire. You are not asking why I like to play the Empire. I can only tell you my reasons. I can't really get into the heads of the Imperial NPCs. I can only guess that it would have to be the society, environment, and your upbringing that would effect your loyalties (nature vs nurture). If you live in that kind of world, and you've only seen it's benefits, then perhaps you'd be willing to support it and apply for a job that supports it. Conversely, perhaps, if you've only seen the down side or are able to see the downside, then perhaps you would defect to the Republic. It's hard to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Remember, as Elara Dorne tells the Trooper, the Empire lied forever about what the Republic was really like. the Empire has the people believing the Republic was a much worse place to live, than the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamyn Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 In the real world, if there were suddenly people like Sith present, a lot of people would worship them as gods. Out of fear or admiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberdeliah Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I think empire it's not that side to be hate, it's sith who was perverted it. In the heart of empire still living lots of "just people", and lots of "just soilders". So I can't really choose one side, I want just peace w/o sith madness. Oh, I'm saying like true jedi:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I think empire it's not that side to be hate, it's sith who was perverted it. In the heart of empire still living lots of "just people", and lots of "just soilders". So I can't really choose one side, I want just peace w/o sith madness. Oh, I'm saying like true jedi:D Sith madness is only part of it's problem. Even without Sith madness, you have Moff madness. As we've seen, the Empire's military is just as bad as the Sith. Do you think that would change, without the Sith presence? I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattlebloodMage Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 If you're the ones on top and was raised with slaves and things like that, it will become your way of life and you wouldn't see it as wrong. How a person turn out depending on their upbringing. Some people were raised to believe in Creationism that become disillusion when they learn about Evolution or don't believe in racism because they haven't experience it to the degree of other people. Their worldview wouldn't change unless they're being put in the other person's shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 If you're the ones on top and was raised with slaves and things like that, it will become your way of life and you wouldn't see it as wrong. How a person turn out depending on their upbringing. Some people were raised to believe in Creationism that become disillusion when they learn about Evolution or don't believe in racism because they haven't experience it to the degree of other people. Their worldview wouldn't change unless they're being put in the other person's shoes. Except, they do know. They all do. They just don't care. They (the Sith) believe in the strong leading. While others obtain means of rank and use it to rule over others. All of them having rules in place in taking power from others directly as being against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattlebloodMage Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Except, they do know. They all do. They just don't care. They (the Sith) believe in the strong leading. While others obtain means of rank and use it to rule over others. All of them having rules in place in taking power from others directly as being against the rules. Yes, they were raised to believe in it, it's their way of life. Most wouldn't see it as wrong because they were taught to see it as right. It's just different value and morality based on how you were raised. A lot of what people considered to be right and morally sound in the past would be viewed as horrible by current standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Yes, they were raised to believe in it, it's their way of life. Most wouldn't see it as wrong because they were taught to see it as right. It's just different value and morality based on how you were raised. A lot of what people considered to be right and morally sound in the past would be viewed as horrible by current standard. In the game itself, it has the Imperials knowing full well, what they do is evil. They don't give any speeches about "from a certain point of view" Even with the moral view, there tends to be two constants in every society...don't steal or murder those in your society. To do so, gets punishment. The Empire of course, has it happen often and if you're the right person can get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highsis Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Cuz fiction; honestly I felt and believed the same thing you brought up. It's different from Nazi Germany; there is no such thing as an evil empire in real world; even the most evil empires treat their citizens well. The empire and the whole Sith codes are jokes only passable in the realm of fictions. A nation that endorses abuses and betrayals can't last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInReverie Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I don't see it as that far-fetched that there would be many people who support the Empire, even if doing so goes against their own interests in some way. After all, people vote against their own interests all the time and support exactly what's worst for them. We've seen it all throughout history. Feudalism was the standard setup for society for quite a long time, and while I'm sure the serfs and peasants weren't having a wonderful time, it's all they knew, and I wouldn't be surprised if many serfs were extremely loyal to their lords and kingdoms. Patriotism and nationalism aren't logical. They come from an emotional, tribalistic us vs. them mentality. So yeah I can definitely understand why a lot of ordinary people support the Empire even if they're not benefiting from it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Cuz fiction; honestly I felt and believed the same thing you brought up. It's different from Nazi Germany; there is no such thing as an evil empire in real world; even the most evil empires treat their citizens well. The empire and the whole Sith codes are jokes only passable in the realm of fictions. A nation that endorses abuses and betrayals can't last. The Sith Code is open to interpretation. One could live by the Sith Code and not be evil. It says that conflict is constant and ever present, there is truth to that. It says that that you can draw strength from your passions, there is truth to that. It's HOW the Sith live by the code that's the issue. The Code itself is not evil. The Sith Empire is evil. Edited December 26, 2016 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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