New Gear System

[FreddyBeach]

There have been a lot of concerns/complaints regarding the new 5.0 gearing structure. I have been playing since 5.0 launched and honestly sympathise with many players as it is very challenging/random to obtain new and usable gear for your character. BUT I think it does have some benefits.

 

Let me preface this by saying that I am an old school MMPORG player from the days of the original Everquest. I enjoy SWOTR but obtaining gear in the game was not that difficult.

 

The old school games such as Everquest were almost impossibly difficult to obtain any epic or decent gear and even if you managed to beat a "boss" there was no guarantee that a piece that you were after would even fall so there was an element of randomness to it as well. Once you did get it, it meant something to have that new piece. I am not saying we need to go back to a system like that as it was incredibly time consuming and frustrating.

 

The new system allows for some element of chance without really being too difficult and hopefully will instil some appreciation when obtaining new gear. The old system was more like a check list of items you had to obtain by doing certain tasks. For example I would pvp, get the points and turn them in for a new piece of gear. At least now it seems there is an element of chance again. For example I was really tickled pink when I managed to get a new Blaster Rifle for my Op through one of the command crates.

 

As with everything there are different points of view and I do appreciate the new sentiments as well. I do not believe the new system is perfect, as it does not necessarily reward good or smart play, but with everything change takes time and hopefully with some refining, gear will start to mean something again.

 

 

Just my 2 cents...

[Darevsool]

I never played Everquest. My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies.

This is my second MMO.

 

In EQ, when you went in raids, did you get a chance at getting a SPECIFIC piece of loot for killing a boss, or a sub boss? If you needed gloves, did you have to do one boss in one dungeon over and over again until you got the lucky roll for the drop?

 

This game, now, isn't like that.

It's entirely possible, with how the game is TODAY, that you'll NEVER get those gloves you need.

 

That's why the RNG system is bad and why they absolutely need to tweak it.

 

Or just get rid of stat'd items from RNG all together, and just have "fluff" in those boxes.

[gabigool]

The old school games such as Everquest were almost impossibly difficult to obtain any epic or decent gear and even if you managed to beat a "boss" there was no guarantee that a piece that you were after would even fall so there was an element of randomness to it as well. Once you did get it, it meant something to have that new piece. I am not saying we need to go back to a system like that as it was incredibly time consuming and frustrating.

 

The best aspect of it is that is slightly better than a game that came out in the 90's?

[TUXs]

The best aspect of it is that is slightly better than a game that came out in the 90's?

You gotta love how far they are willing to go to pretend the current system doesn't suck.

[Damask_Rose]

The old school MMO I started with was Asheron's call where the best armor could drop from any of a certain type of mob, most of which could be easily solo'd or duo'd. There was no raid mob camping. (I doubt I would have stuck with MMOs if I had started with EQ) Later they added the ability for crafters to improve world dropped loot with a chance to break it. I found that system to be much more fun than this. Some of the old Turbine devs are putting together a little nitche MMO that is going to go old school on a lot of things, and I am really looking forward to alpha.

[FreddyBeach]

@Darevsool

 

There was always a chance but not necessarily a guarantee. To get some of the best gear involved getting raids of up to 72 people and raiding for 8 hours straight sometimes (Plane of Fear I am looking at you). You could even lose your corpse and equipment if it all went poorly and if you did manged to get rezzed you were tapped with a loss of exp. Die enough times and you started losing levels. If I recall correctly (it has been a while since I played EQ) the chances were decent that what ever you needed would drop but then again you had to compete with many people for that piece so in essence it sometimes took months to get anything you needed if ever. The game was pretty hardcore. I mean it was refereed to as Evercrack in the day. If you did not invest an absurd amount of time you ultimately had little to no hope of getting the "best" gear. And the game was not very solo friendly. It was one of the first of it's kind and therefore had little to compare it too.

 

Again, do I believe the new system is perfect? Absolutely not. I personally do appreciate the fact that there is a bit more challenge at getting the gear even though it is somewhat random. Hopefully they will listen to the community and fine tune the grind but still make it meaningful. I am willing to give it some time as I love the Star Wars environment and the storytelling.

 

It is important to voice concerns and opinions, that is how change is created but I wish people would stop being so negative and offer positive criticism rather than the doom and gloom "this game is sucking my will to live" attitude.

 

Just my 2 cents...again (Up to 4 now cha ching)

[ShardODarkness]

My biggest issue with the new gear system is the way RNG was implemented. Instead of getting something useful for your GC level grind and maybe something special (..by RNG), it was determined that RNG will decide if you get anything useful at all...far too many GC crates with junk, junk, and more junk. The BEST part is that they encourage you to play alts with D v L and the achievment system...THEN make it near impossible to gear any alts in GC...what the...? Edited December 22, 2016 by ShardODarkness

[TUXs]

It is important to voice concerns and opinions, that is how change is created but I wish people would stop being so negative and offer positive criticism rather than the doom and gloom "this game is sucking my will to live" attitude.

What is there to be positive about exactly? They've effectively killed the game for many of us...what should we be positive about?

[PlasmaJohn]

What is there to be positive about exactly? They've effectively killed the game for many of us...what should we be positive about?

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

[FreddyBeach]

What is there to be positive about exactly? They've effectively killed the game for many of us...what should we be positive about?

 

Well I am not a philosophical type but being positive is a personal choice. I really cannot tell you what there to be positive about, that is up to you. If you feel that "they" have killed the game for you then I respect that.

 

Like I mentioned I enjoy game and will continue to play as "I" find it a positive experience.

 

I am not trying to come across as a hypocrite or anything. I was just sharing that I feel like the changes are not totally negative. Those that feel the changes are detrimental seem to be voicing their opinions in greater numbers which is great, it opens up debate and change. I do believe that there is a silent group out there that feel the changes are O.K. and I was just voicing the other side of the coin is all.

 

Happy Gaming!

[TUXs]

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

Good point...I hadn't thought about that.

[KWONRYU]

I never played Everquest. My first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies.

This is my second MMO.

 

In EQ, when you went in raids, did you get a chance at getting a SPECIFIC piece of loot for killing a boss, or a sub boss? If you needed gloves, did you have to do one boss in one dungeon over and over again until you got the lucky roll for the drop?

 

This game, now, isn't like that.

It's entirely possible, with how the game is TODAY, that you'll NEVER get those gloves you need.

 

That's why the RNG system is bad and why they absolutely need to tweak it.

 

Or just get rid of stat'd items from RNG all together, and just have "fluff" in those boxes.

 

In early Everquest, long before people started to raid Nagafen / Vox, there were items that really could improve your character, like the Flowing Black Silk Sash for example, which gave your character haste.

 

It was impossible to solo that content by that time, so you had to group up and bring a party down there to try and defeat the Evil Froglok that had it.

The Boss had a rare chance of dropping that item, usually he'd drop something else (that wasnt as good).

When it did drop, you had to compete with others for it (in your party), in some parties/groups, even the Healer rolled for it!

 

That item was so popular that people even stood in line and waited for someone to leave the party that camped outside that Boss room.

 

Those were the days.

[VirtualMorrigan]

@Darevsool

 

It is important to voice concerns and opinions, that is how change is created but I wish people would stop being so negative and offer positive criticism rather than the doom and gloom "this game is sucking my will to live" attitude.

 

Positive criticism? So, just mindless praise allowed, or what are you going on about?

 

People are being honest. Your suggestion is to keep on lying to each other and themselves and pretend that all is just fine. Not very constructive, IMHO

[Darevsool]

As one of those people usually not interested in group content...having the upper most level of end game gear has never been a goal of mine.

 

This system is the upper 3 or 4 levels of gear being tied to RNG loot boxes.

 

When 224 was the top level of gear, you could get 216 and 220 by farming the heck out of heroics, or daily quests, or weeklies via the crystals and vendors on fleet. I was never able to get 224 stuff, but thanks to grinding, I had a good amount of 220 gear.

 

Now that's been taken away. The highest we can craft via trainers is 228, equivalent to the old 208 stuff.

The current 230 stuff comes from RNG.

Whatever is actually above that is also from RNG.

[ShardODarkness]

It is important to voice concerns and opinions, that is how change is created but I wish people would stop being so negative and offer positive criticism rather than the doom and gloom "this game is sucking my will to live" attitude.

 

...the honest truth is rarely pretty, and never popular.

[VirtualMorrigan]

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

 

I am probably rather close to that class you describe; I am not good enough for difficult group content, I will usually only group for heroics or some FPs. So, I should be the target audience for this change? I can only say I well, truly and honestly hate the way GC is set up. I feel like logging in to an alt is a waste of time since I should be continuing on my main, so I can at least do FPs again without completely embarrassing myself in front of others. I am at lvl 7 CXP on two characters and feel less and less like this is worth even trying. So whoever this was implemented for, it sure as hell wasn't for my play style.

 

I used to have a lot of fun before playing "casual". I see no point in it now.

[DarthSpuds]

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

 

I choose not to do group content is SWtOR, I know there's lots I am missing out on.

I've never once felt I was missing out on gear though, because in all honesty I wasn't running hardest content so I never needed BiS gear.

 

I am, allegedly, one of that group of players who benefit most from this system. I still hate it, with a passion. In fact I refuse to even log in any more.

 

RNG gearing is just lazy and bad game design, and I am opposed to lazy and bad game design wherever I find it.

 

Tell you what though, getting nothing but vendor trash from the crates I did open was the very first time in this game I felt I was missing out on being able to gear up.

 

All The Best

[Mowermanx]

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

 

Agreed, and I dont think theres anything wrong with this system in its entirety, if, it were added to the previous existing system, and not replacing it.

[PlasmaJohn]

I used to have a lot of fun before playing "casual". I see no point in it now.

RNG gearing is just lazy and bad game design, and I am opposed to lazy and bad game design wherever I find it.

I was being careful how I worded it. I didn't say it was a good system for casuals just that it had one feature that some would consider a positive. I agree that it's trash for everybody but the most lucky and I think that's why some solo-only folks are over the moon. They've hit the jackpot enough times to have something they've never had before.

 

Personally I've had some pretty awesome luck on one character but I know the system is trash because the group has had terrible luck with key roles having maybe completing the first set-bonus but usually not. Worse, the slog to 90 is really demoralizing.

[docbenwayddo]

Those were the days.

 

EQ has a lot of fun memories for me that gloss over things like parking my Ranger with underwater action amulet equipped in Kedge Keep to check tracking window every 72hours for Phinny spawn and was considered very lucky to get my Wizard the Blue Crystal Staff for the Epic on the 8th kill. Folks on Graffes reporting up to 59 at the time.

 

Also, my Scrapper Scoundrel shares a name with the mob in Najena that dropped the Damask Robe.

[VirtualMorrigan]

I was being careful how I worded it. I didn't say it was a good system for casuals just that it had one feature that some would consider a positive. I agree that it's trash for everybody but the most lucky and I think that's why some solo-only folks are over the moon. They've hit the jackpot enough times to have something they've never had before.

 

Personally I've had some pretty awesome luck on one character but I know the system is trash because the group has had terrible luck with key roles having maybe completing the first set-bonus but usually not. Worse, the slog to 90 is really demoralizing.

 

Sorry, maybe I worded it badly. I was trying to say that you might be right that that was what they intended, but for this member of that proposed target group, it is complete and utter fail. So they didn't even get that right

[Voblat]

Ironically, everquest is why I never do operations here.

 

Try a few 70+ man raids, or the multi 70+ groups needed to kill some stuff, like the 200 or so poor souls who went after Kerafyrm the Sleeper only to have SOE despawn him at 20% health because they thought the group were exploiting (I'd moved on to swg by that point, no raiding there either), and raiding becomes old hat quickly.

 

I like playing casually, I don;t need the best gear, I don't even want the best gear, but endlessly opening crates, well 25 of them, by doing 5 year old content, and getting jawa junk and rep tokens for my trouble. That is just insulting.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Voblat

[Damask_Rose]

For a certain class of player, those unwilling or unable to engage in group content, this system gives them a shot at end-game gear. But for everybody else it's terrible. Judging by the panic response to all the unsubs I'm guessing the group content fans aren't a small a niche as some would like us to believe.

 

The problem with that is the solo content yields so little cpx no solo player is going to see tier 3 unless they treat grinding for it like a full time job. For predominantly solo, casual players like me, this change is also terrible since we no longer have crystal venders to get base line gear. It's a good change for crafters though since crafted gear is now indispensable.

[Tsillah]

The problem with that is the solo content yields so little cpx no solo player is going to see tier 3 unless they treat grinding for it like a full time job. For predominantly solo, casual players like me, this change is also terrible since we no longer have crystal venders to get base line gear. It's a good change for crafters though since crafted gear is now indispensable.

 

Well between story chapters, heroics (especially via the GC screen) and just killing golds and champions there is a limited amount of points coming your way.

 

Of course the gear that you get from the boxes will be quite an improvement over what you have for sure. So you don't actually would need to worry about tier 3.

 

Now if you really want tier 3 gear, then yes it will take a long time, but then it's not surprising that in an MMO the top tier gear is more accessible through group play.

 

The question then becomes how many solo players really care about BiS gear? Because if most don't care, then why do it? Honestly I don't really don't care who BWA gives gear to and how easily. I just want to be able to continue playing the game I enjoyed for quite some time. That's the deciding factor for me stopping with playing. I just don't enjoy it. That actually has nothing to do with gear requirements for whichever content.

[Damask_Rose]

Well between story chapters, heroics (especially via the GC screen) and just killing golds and champions there is a limited amount of points coming your way.

 

Of course the gear that you get from the boxes will be quite an improvement over what you have for sure. So you don't actually would need to worry about tier 3.

 

Now if you really want tier 3 gear, then yes it will take a long time, but then it's not surprising that in an MMO the top tier gear is more accessible through group play.

 

The question then becomes how many solo players really care about BiS gear? Because if most don't care, then why do it? Honestly I don't really don't care who BWA gives gear to and how easily. I just want to be able to continue playing the game I enjoyed for quite some time. That's the deciding factor for me stopping with playing. I just don't enjoy it. That actually has nothing to do with gear requirements for whichever content.

 

I was replying to PlasmaJohn who was speculating that solo players are the only ones to benefit from this system, which they don't because the old crystal vender system was much better for normal solo players to get reasonable baseline gear. (there will always be edge cases). And so far most of the gear I'm getting is only slightly better than the gear I had. Once tier 10 mats are on the jawa venders and I craft up some purple mods, most of it won't even be marginally better.

 

The big selling point for GC was that casual players will have access to BiS gear. People keep defaulting to that argument when they defend the system. But really, the amount of time a player would need to spend grinding solo gcx would place them well out of being casual. It's like saying eveyone can have a Lamborghini since everyone can save up for one eventually. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No.

 

As far as how many solo players would need BiS? No one knows. But keep in mind they are putting in solo content that requires tier 3 gear, but the only players likely to have the needed gear are group players who by and large aren't interested in harder solo content