Tone down healing, or fix match making

[Evanouss]

I can't believe this hasn't been addressed by devs yet (/sarcasm off). Healing has been out of control for a while now but to have teams with 2 of these out of control healers vs. a team with none is ridiculous. One of these has to give. i know this won't ever be fixed since the devs don't seem to give a flying crap about pvp in this game, just here to vent to the void...

 

Was just in a match where people were screaming about too many OP mercs...leader boards showed opposing team with 1 merc, but 2 healers with outrageous healing numbers...and yes we focused them and attempted to cc and split. with the amount of escapes and taunts flying around it just doesn't matter. I'd even be ok with matches where 1 team had 1 healer, at least that's manageable, your extra dps should, all things being equal, be able to compensate.

[kissingaiur]

I can't believe this hasn't been addressed by devs yet (/sarcasm off). Healing has been out of control for a while now but to have teams with 2 of these out of control healers vs. a team with none is ridiculous. One of these has to give. i know this won't ever be fixed since the devs don't seem to give a flying crap about pvp in this game, just here to vent to the void...

 

Was just in a match where people were screaming about too many OP mercs...leader boards showed opposing team with 1 merc, but 2 healers with outrageous healing numbers...and yes we focused them and attempted to cc and split. with the amount of escapes and taunts flying around it just doesn't matter. I'd even be ok with matches where 1 team had 1 healer, at least that's manageable, your extra dps should, all things being equal, be able to compensate.

 

Whoa. Whoa. Slow down. I wouldn't make bold claims without having an understanding about what is really happening in PvP, gearing and the current meta. All of this impacts what we see in every PvP match today.

 

1) One in 5.0 time to kill went up while burst classes damage stayed slightly the same. It's not that healing is over tuned it's that hp pools so a lot higher and burst is pretty much the same. If you looked at the patch coding for 5.0 and all the healing classes didn't get any buffs, they are exactly the same (Sorcs got slight nerfs).

 

2) More people who are PvErs mains are now participating in PvP. First off this isn't a bad thing but it does come with some headaches. This means there are more average to bad (no offense) players in queue for regs, solo ranked and maybe even group ranked. Remember that healing relative to DPS. More bads in queue, the more healing is easier and seems like its overtuned but in reality it's not.

 

3) Gearing also might be a factor. I noticed with how bolster is looking currently. It looks like DPS might be scaling up 240+ gear rating because of how the stat conversions look while healing is scaling less. DPS output might slightly increase and less so for healing as people become more geared. Also keep in mind there are going to be slight gear imbalances as well. Some players are going to be better geared than others which effects how they might perform.

 

4) The new meta favors Mercs. Mercs are without a doubt one of the most hilariously overtuned PvP classes. Arguably ever since this games release. They went from being meh to unkillable gods. Look at it this way, it's pretty easy to heal a DPS who has the best DCDs in the game. You not being able to kill them more of a class imbalance issue than it is a healing output issue.

 

Just consider all these facts before crying healing is OP.

Edited December 20, 2016 by kissingaiur

[Neulwen]

Matchmaking for normals should definitely be implemented. It should at least attempt to make even teams with what roles are queued, like if there are 2 healers in queue, place them on separate teams. Edited December 20, 2016 by Neulwen

[Jake_Chambers]

Another thing is that with how hard alt gearing is, people who are healing are dedicated to that one role and are often more proficient with it

[Evolixe]

*POST*

 

Just consider all these facts before crying healing is OP.

 

You can write as long a post as you want, but I for one agree with the OP.

 

Burst was always ridiculous in this game, and now it might finally have a somewhat balanced position.

You don't die next to instantly versus a high burst class, but if you don't act upon someone bursting you will still get annihilated.

 

Burst is right. Healing is wrong.

 

With less healing, time to kill would be the same, while group combat would see more killing.

I don't know about you.. but I don't much enjoy stalemate games where nobody dies.

 

Clearing the field and making people run back keeps the game dynamic.

Everyone staying alive constantly is just plain boring and makes for uneventful games.

[americanaussie]

My healing on my op sucks in comparison to many others. Now I only just switched so learning the ropes and have less alacrity than I probably should and more accuracy than I probably should. But I'm wondering how set bonuses affect things. It's possible that the crazy heals is boosted by nice gear. I find baseline healing to be on par.

[americanaussie]

Else make it so in the 4 vs 4 that all 4 players cannot target the healer right off the bat and beat them into oblivion. Same is true for any other time they get a BIG MARKER above their head. PVP is not much fun when you spend the rounds DEAD.

 

(yes, total sarcasm/joking/don't get butthurt. Not all groups get a tank to protect the healer. Not all groups are organised in their attacks while others are and go straight for the healer. 4 on 1 is no fun. )

[Evanouss]

Whoa. Whoa. Slow down. I wouldn't make bold claims without having an understanding about what is really happening in PvP, gearing and the current meta. All of this impacts what we see in every PvP match today.

 

1) One in 5.0 time to kill went up while burst classes damage stayed slightly the same. It's not that healing is over tuned it's that hp pools so a lot higher and burst is pretty much the same. If you looked at the patch coding for 5.0 and all the healing classes didn't get any buffs, they are exactly the same (Sorcs got slight nerfs).

 

2) More people who are PvErs mains are now participating in PvP. First off this isn't a bad thing but it does come with some headaches. This means there are more average to bad (no offense) players in queue for regs, solo ranked and maybe even group ranked. Remember that healing relative to DPS. More bads in queue, the more healing is easier and seems like its overtuned but in reality it's not.

 

3) Gearing also might be a factor. I noticed with how bolster is looking currently. It looks like DPS might be scaling up 240+ gear rating because of how the stat conversions look while healing is scaling less. DPS output might slightly increase and less so for healing as people become more geared. Also keep in mind there are going to be slight gear imbalances as well. Some players are going to be better geared than others which effects how they might perform.

 

4) The new meta favors Mercs. Mercs are without a doubt one of the most hilariously overtuned PvP classes. Arguably ever since this games release. They went from being meh to unkillable gods. Look at it this way, it's pretty easy to heal a DPS who has the best DCDs in the game. You not being able to kill them more of a class imbalance issue than it is a healing output issue.

 

Just consider all these facts before crying healing is OP.

 

Mercs are OP yes, but thats not the point of my post. The loss was assumed by 2 ppl to be over tuned mercs when in fact it was an unbalancing of HEALING. Also, i'm not calling for the nerf bat on heals just needs to be curbed. Most of my complaint is match making. However, now that you bring it up, the fact that time to kill has been raised it makes the over tuned healing in 4.0 much much worse in 5. Longer kill times increase healer time to bounce you back up....they were already bad in 4.0...Now it's just ludicrous..Stalemate pvp is boring as hell.

[kissingaiur]

Mercs are OP yes, but thats not the point of my post. The loss was assumed by 2 ppl to be over tuned mercs when in fact it was an unbalancing of HEALING. Also, i'm not calling for the nerf bat on heals just needs to be curbed. Most of my complaint is match making. However, now that you bring it up, the fact that time to kill has been raised it makes the over tuned healing in 4.0 much much worse in 5. Longer kill times increase healer time to bounce you back up....they were already bad in 4.0...Now it's just ludicrous..Stalemate pvp is boring as hell.

 

... I don't understand why I try to make people understand when they can't even comprehend what I am saying.

[-Bob-]

... I don't understand why I try to make people understand when they can't even comprehend what I am saying.

 

I get you Hottie

[Evanouss]

... I don't understand why I try to make people understand when they can't even comprehend what I am saying.

 

I didn't comprehend? You pointed out why it may "seem" OP like gearing, burst damage being even from 4.0-5.0..Higher Hp totals. Doesn't change the fact that essentially nothing changed...except heals are either even from 4.0 or better from 4.0...Hence the point of the post. This could all be just a factor of ridiculous sorc/sage over tuning in 4.0 and merc/Op healing is just fine? Problem with that is, since sorc/sage are easier to heal with, theres a **** ton more of them.

You could be correct about gear scaling better for DPS then for heals, but why should we have to wait a season to make amends when we already know it was bad in 4.0? So your opinion is.....hey, lets wait til the end of a full season and see what happens...? With crap RNG on command crates i'd rather not "wait it out..."

 

match making still needs to be addressed

Edited December 21, 2016 by Evanouss

[JudgeNot]

... I don't understand why I try to make people understand when they can't even comprehend what I am saying.

 

You have to be the most crass, asinine, self-indulgent person on these forums. All you do is belittle everyone, as if it pangs you that EVERYONE is so below your level of intelligence. Man you are one crude rude ignoramus. You sit on this delusional high horse that no one gives a flying ____ about and think that we should all succumb to your superiority. You are the very definition of a narcissist.

Edited December 21, 2016 by JudgeNot

[QuiveringPotato]

Whoa. Whoa. Slow down. I wouldn't make bold claims without having an understanding about what is really happening in PvP, gearing and the current meta. All of this impacts what we see in every PvP match today.

 

1) One in 5.0 time to kill went up while burst classes damage stayed slightly the same. It's not that healing is over tuned it's that hp pools so a lot higher and burst is pretty much the same. If you looked at the patch coding for 5.0 and all the healing classes didn't get any buffs, they are exactly the same (Sorcs got slight nerfs).

 

2) More people who are PvErs mains are now participating in PvP. First off this isn't a bad thing but it does come with some headaches. This means there are more average to bad (no offense) players in queue for regs, solo ranked and maybe even group ranked. Remember that healing relative to DPS. More bads in queue, the more healing is easier and seems like its overtuned but in reality it's not.

 

3) Gearing also might be a factor. I noticed with how bolster is looking currently. It looks like DPS might be scaling up 240+ gear rating because of how the stat conversions look while healing is scaling less. DPS output might slightly increase and less so for healing as people become more geared. Also keep in mind there are going to be slight gear imbalances as well. Some players are going to be better geared than others which effects how they might perform.

 

4) The new meta favors Mercs. Mercs are without a doubt one of the most hilariously overtuned PvP classes. Arguably ever since this games release. They went from being meh to unkillable gods. Look at it this way, it's pretty easy to heal a DPS who has the best DCDs in the game. You not being able to kill them more of a class imbalance issue than it is a healing output issue.

 

Just consider all these facts before crying healing is OP.

 

I think the issue is that when you have more than 1 tank and 1 healer per team in 8v8s, it can quickly get ridiculous.

 

It's obvious that in PVP, damage output is not balanced to account for more than 1 "pair" of heal/tanks at a time. Even just with 2 tanks, 2 healers, it can be a pain in the *** to kill anyone unless all 4 of your DPS are carnage maras or arsenal mercs.

 

Like, 2 tanks with 6 DPS and no healer on each team? Not terrible, yeah, the tanks will survive longer and you'll have to kill them before their guarded DPS, but without a healer, people will still die.

 

2 healers, 6 DPS with no tanks (and no DPS that can guard for that matter)? Not awful, yeah, it will take a while to kill people, but it's not super difficult to isolate people and burst them down if they don't have the tank peels to help.

 

3 tanks, 3 healers? Kill me, please.

 

It's not healers or tanks alone that are the issue, it's when they're combined that just breaks the matchmaking in regs. Parsing Simulator PVP is not fun.

Edited December 22, 2016 by QuiveringPotato

[kissingaiur]

You have to be the most crass, asinine, self-indulgent person on these forums. All you do is belittle everyone, as if it pangs you that EVERYONE is so below your level of intelligence. Man you are one crude rude ignoramus. You sit on this delusional high horse that no one gives a flying ____ about and think that we should all succumb to your superiority. You are the very definition of a narcissist.

 

Yes, giving someone information then they completely ignore your points while completely ramble on and on about irrelevant factors that you already discusses in a rebuttal . To some that would be extremely irritating and I fully expressed that in my post. Once you try to help players to understand that there is more to the game then what's on the surface and over and over and over they completely ignore your posts, you would get frustrated too. So calm down and take a seat.

 

Oh and by the way, clearly, you should probably google what a narcissist is before you openly diagnose someone on a public forum. If everyone who talked back in frustration on forums is now categorized as a narcissist, you would be in that boat too as well as 80% of the pvp population.

Edited December 22, 2016 by kissingaiur

[Sorkenna]

4) The new meta favors Mercs. Mercs are without a doubt one of the most hilariously overtuned PvP classes. Arguably ever since this games release. They went from being meh to unkillable gods. Look at it this way, it's pretty easy to heal a DPS who has the best DCDs in the game. You not being able to kill them more of a class imbalance issue than it is a healing output issue.

.

 

When there is 2 healers in a team, you barely need to use your dcd. With the hp pool, healers have a lot of time to do their jobs (as well the tank to switch guard or a dps to guard if there is no tank).

 

The ttk is sometimes so long that objectives cannot be tagged...you kill 1 healer, start dpsing the other one, the first one has already come back (even with a full time repop timer... ).

[JudgeNot]

Yes, giving someone information then they completely ignore your points while completely ramble on and on about irrelevant factors that you already discusses in a rebuttal . To some that would be extremely irritating and I fully expressed that in my post. Once you try to help players to understand that there is more to the game then what's on the surface and over and over and over they completely ignore your posts, you would get frustrated too. So calm down and take a seat.

 

Oh and by the way, clearly, you should probably google what a narcissist is before you openly diagnose someone on a public forum. If everyone who talked back in frustration on forums is now categorized as a narcissist, you would be in that boat too as well as 80% of the pvp population.

 

Wow, I'm befuddled at your lack of comprehension. Maybe my vernacular is out of your depths, or you just refuse to accept that your "frustration" does not give you the right to attempt to make people feel stupid, and you superior. I'll just leave it at the fact that you are living proof ignorance is bliss, especially if you think you are actually "helping" people by calling them idiots because they have different view point.

[kissingaiur]

Wow, I'm befuddled at your lack of comprehension. Maybe my vernacular is out of your depths, or you just refuse to accept that your "frustration" does not give you the right to attempt to make people feel stupid, and you superior. I'll just leave it at the fact that you are living proof ignorance is bliss, especially if you think you are actually "helping" people by calling them idiots because they have different view point.

 

Yes, surprise, surprise, when people get frustrated they say mean things. Welcome to humanity.

[Maegi]

You have to be the most crass, asinine, self-indulgent person on these forums. All you do is belittle everyone, as if it pangs you that EVERYONE is so below your level of intelligence. Man you are one crude rude ignoramus. You sit on this delusional high horse that no one gives a flying ____ about and think that we should all succumb to your superiority. You are the very definition of a narcissist.

 

Because of your screen name, you win the amazing irony award of 2016.

[jedcjedcjedc]

I think the issue is that when you have more than 1 tank and 1 healer per team in 8v8s, it can quickly get ridiculous.

 

It's obvious that in PVP, damage output is not balanced to account for more than 1 "pair" of heal/tanks at a time. Even just with 2 tanks, 2 healers, it can be a pain in the *** to kill anyone unless all 4 of your DPS are carnage maras or arsenal mercs.

 

Like, 2 tanks with 6 DPS and no healer on each team? Not terrible, yeah, the tanks will survive longer and you'll have to kill them before their guarded DPS, but without a healer, people will still die.

 

2 healers, 6 DPS with no tanks (and no DPS that can guard for that matter)? Not awful, yeah, it will take a while to kill people, but it's not super difficult to isolate people and burst them down if they don't have the tank peels to help.

 

3 tanks, 3 healers? Kill me, please.

 

It's not healers or tanks alone that are the issue, it's when they're combined that just breaks the matchmaking in regs. Parsing Simulator PVP is not fun.

 

Though that is how it has always been, it's one of the reasons they took away being able to change specs inside wz's to try and prevent these kinds of matches in wz's. So to be fair, it's not specifically 5.0 causing that, though it might be exacerbating the issue a little.

[QuiveringPotato]

Though that is how it has always been, it's one of the reasons they took away being able to change specs inside wz's to try and prevent these kinds of matches in wz's. So to be fair, it's not specifically 5.0 causing that, though it might be exacerbating the issue a little.

 

True, but in.. 2.10, for example, the TTK was so low that sometimes it didn't matter how many healers you had. I remember being able to nuke a guy on my mara from 100-0 in just under 4 seconds. Now? Not so much.

 

They just really need to add in some sort of matchmaking. To be quite honest.. I wouldn't mind seeing less people play healers if it meant we got more balanced 8v8 matches. >_>

Edited December 22, 2016 by QuiveringPotato

[BonnerFett]

1) One in 5.0 time to kill went up while burst classes damage stayed slightly the same. It's not that healing is over tuned it's that hp pools so a lot higher and burst is pretty much the same. If you looked at the patch coding for 5.0 and all the healing classes didn't get any buffs, they are exactly the same (Sorcs got slight nerfs).

 

2) More people who are PvErs mains are now participating in PvP. First off this isn't a bad thing but it does come with some headaches. This means there are more average to bad (no offense) players in queue for regs, solo ranked and maybe even group ranked. Remember that healing relative to DPS. More bads in queue, the more healing is easier and seems like its overtuned but in reality it's not.

 

3) Gearing also might be a factor. I noticed with how bolster is looking currently. It looks like DPS might be scaling up 240+ gear rating because of how the stat conversions look while healing is scaling less. DPS output might slightly increase and less so for healing as people become more geared. Also keep in mind there are going to be slight gear imbalances as well. Some players are going to be better geared than others which effects how they might perform.

 

4) The new meta favors Mercs. Mercs are without a doubt one of the most hilariously overtuned PvP classes. Arguably ever since this games release. They went from being meh to unkillable gods. Look at it this way, it's pretty easy to heal a DPS who has the best DCDs in the game. You not being able to kill them more of a class imbalance issue than it is a healing output issue.

 

Just consider all these facts before crying healing is OP.

 

 

This is SPOT ON! Great summary of 5.0 PVP.

[Sheike]

One thing I've noticed with 5.0 is that any more than two healers per side makes the game stagnant. There shouldn't be matchmaking filters for every class because the population is generally low unless it's Harbinger, but filters for healers should be turned on for sure.

[kissingaiur]

One thing I've noticed with 5.0 is that any more than two healers per side makes the game stagnant. There shouldn't be matchmaking filters for every class because the population is generally low unless it's Harbinger, but filters for healers should be turned on for sure.

 

Sadly this will never happen. Devs said they rather have shorter queue times then match making in regs. There is match making in ranked though.

[Evolixe]

Sadly this will never happen. Devs said they rather have shorter queue times then match making in regs. There is match making in ranked though.

 

That was not the point of the phrase you quoted though. 2 healers shouldn't create a stagnant match.

Add an offhealer on top of that and you're in for the most boring warzones of your life.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Evolixe

[kissingaiur]

That was not the point of the phrase you quoted though. 2 healers shouldn't create a stagnant match.

Add an offhealer on top of that and you're in for the most boring warzones of your life.

 

1 healer vs 1 dps should nullify one healer if tunneled. 2 dps can kill a healer. 2 healers would take 4 dps. It's not hard but majority of the pvp population are casuals so that's the problem. nerf heals cuz casuals can't kill a healer.