Changes to Gearing through Galactic Command

[rubint]

Introduce legacy left side items (earpiece, implants, relics).

[Avinler]

Ok first I guarantee you never defeated 48 OPS bosses in 10 ten days. Second this is a video game your stupid little analogy is garbage.

 

I've cleared 48 or more Operations bosses in a week many times. I've cleared 15-20 bosses in a single night of raiding many times.

[Avinler]

We don't play the game just to gear--we play the game to experience new things, new challenges, new mechanics. I'll be the first to admit that I love your story, but that's not why I pay a monthly subscription--I've subscribed all this time for all the other things that can be done while we're waiting for more story. The gear is a means to an end, NOT the end, and I think that this whole whackadoodle Galactic Command system has lost sight of that basic tenet of gaming philosophy.

 

This paragraph really speaks to the foundational flaws of the Galactic Command system.

[Groncho]

OK

1st. Remove crap drops (reputation tokens, green and useless gear) u can put there more interesting things than green trash

2 nd. Keep the System but add a PROGRESSION REWARD every 15/30 levels with a token or item u can trade for a piece of PURPLE ARMOR with bonus so u can exchange it and maybe we, THE CUSTOMERS will find a way to find some sense in this changes

3rd . HILTS; BARRELS, EARPIECES, IMPLANTS AND RELICS should stay as craftable but INCREMENT THE AMOUNT OF REWARDS you get by FINISHING end game PVE/PVP/GSF content. And by FINISHING i mean FINISHING not just grinding. The reward should be by FINISHING not just by participating and going afk

 

Adding a token to exchange and fill one NEEDED PIECE OF GEAR at least would add some sense of progression and higher levels of crafting materials will lower the GTN PRICES so more ppl can even buy them or trade the mats for the finished good

Edited December 14, 2016 by Groncho

[Avinler]

It would help a lot if the system didn't exist. It would be better if content dropped gear tokens, the rating of which was balanced to the difficulty level and time required to complete the content.

 

I'm actually fine with a longer timeline to gear from 4.x gear to 5.x BiS PVE gear, but implement it by dropping 216 tokens via Story Mode Chapters and Heroics. Story Mode Flashpoints, Story Mode Uprisings, and similar difficulty/time investment content would drop 220 tokens. Veteran Flashpoints and Uprisings would in turn drop 224 rating tokens. Even within Flashpoints and Operations, drop lesser gear in the easier and faster ones. HM Eternity Vault should be less rewarding than some HM Flashpoints for instance.

 

The Galactic Command system could be a legacy-wide reward/achievement system and maybe a supplement to the above, but in its current form it is a non-starter.

[Kalfridian]

Well, for the gearing problem I think one of the possible way is to use a token system. The command crates can award them every level (Tier 1 token until lv 90, etc) and you can exchange them for armor pieces with a setbonus. I think you should be able to buy the entire armor set with 90 or so token, because... well, the RNG as of now is pretty ruthless.

Sure, not grinding like other player (only using solo content, Story Mode Uprising and some PVP, and I'm pretty bad at the last one so I try to limit myself in that regard), but still, level 30 and only one armor piece with a setbonus, with some purple (shield and one of the relic) plus some occasional blue and greens, with a lot of crap in-between. A lot.

And I'm probably one of the luckiest people in the game. Don't know if I will really miss just one piece by the end of the tier.

 

The alt problem can be resolved by making the Galactic Command Legacy Wide, as most people have suggested. That way you can have alternative way of playing and a bit more variation : nothing special, but it may be refreshing to do something imp sides after grinding X levels on rep side or simply jump role, my main is a rep tank for example and man is it stressfull as a role so it can be good to release some steam as a dps without the "penalty" of not gaining CXP for my main, moreover doing the same exact heroics, the same exact dailies etc. is beginning to take its toll). There's no new content except for Uprising (pretty short, and I like it, but since they are one of the good way to earn CXP having only five can get pretty boring pretty fast since they're glorified heroics and can be finished in less than twenty minute in Story mode, don't know in Veteran though), so at least changing side without penalty may help lessen the boredom. May. Not necessary will. But as of now I fear I will stop long before level 90, unless something is done. Oh, and I don't know why, but the Planetary Mission in the GC doesn't include Makeb or the starter planet. Nar Shaddaa is stil bugged, so it autocompletes, and that's another planet off the list

So if you do the CXP grind via heroics for the bonus, you are more limited than before with 4.XX, even if you add Nathema ed Iokath dailies (which I hope will happen).. Maybe these are other point that could be addressed. The variety will surely need to be addressed at one point (again), since now the preferred method to gear is a grinding one with the RNG on top.

If you can't make the system Legacy wide, maybe the token (again, if this will be the choice) may be bound to legacy, so we can eventually use them (especially Tier 3 or the max level) to gear alt?

Still think the best way is a legacy wide GC though.

 

The rewards from the command crates should be changed too. I think they should only give rated equipment, no orange empty shells, no pet, no Jawa crap or rep comm (if I wanted them or was interested in doing the related activites I would have already done it, and for the crap I alredy get enough from the packs to last a lifetime of so). So purple with setbonus, blue or even green (they are better than what I had prior to the expansion), but the rest can go away and stay gone.

 

CXP gain should be revisited too, not by nerfing but by giving more point for all the activity. 20 cxp for the single heroic mission is too low compared to the amount of points necessary to level up even at low GC levels. You can do to the heroics what you've done with the Uprising, with the planetary mission giving 600-650 cxp (roughly the same amount you get for PVP, at least a terribly incompetent player like me) instead of 450 .

Ops should probably be boosted from what you can read on the fleet (before you could read people searching for group for this or that operation, now you only see bestia farm or kp farm, it's somewhat impressive in a negative way,).

I know the boost may be counterproductive from your point of view since you clearly want us to grind like mad, but you have to give some kind of carrot to the player, not only the stick. If he can get more points, maybe the player can think of filling that last part of the command bar with a planetary bonus or a rapid Uprising, but if he begins to do eight planet and still no level up I think he'll get discouraged (and the RNG isn't helping in any way, since you can get a useless crate) first, bored second, and another game third.

In that way, I don't think there's much sense in nerfing this or that mob if you don't adjust the reward. People want to level up (especially since it's the only thing you can do once you've finished KOTET and we are still in the launching window of the expansion, better known as "gearing time") and if you don't give healthy rewards you can't blame people searching for a faster way to do it. It's only natural that it will happen. That's the quintessential part of grind: find an efficient way to do it (which change from player to player, sure, it depends on time and playing style, but honestly I don't think someone likes not seeing the top of the mountain, especially if climbing is the only thing you can do).

First the general boost, then the eventual nerf when you have a stable and decent reward system. The other way around doesn't work in my opinion, you only raise the frustration and the rage-inducing moment . I'm okay with a grinding system (fan of JRPG for as long as I remember), but I don't think this is the best way to do it (again, the RNG doesn't help in that sense).

The grinding need to feels somewhat rewarding, that the time you invest in it is decently spent OR it need to feel fast enough that you don't feel the dragging. An RNG system cuts down the first option since you're not guaranteed anything (it's not like you'll surely get that broken ability or that boost to your stats like in any JRPG or RPG), even at level 300. You may have to grind well after reaching the cap.

So I think the only option is to boost the CXP for all the activities and adjusting the amount of point you get based on the time you spent in that activity (I don't have any problem if an Operations net 2 to 3 crates, for example, while for example the heroics net only 1000 points a planet) so you can level fast within the boundary of the "normal" playstyle. At that point you can begin talk about nerfing some "exploit" or whatever, non before that.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Kalfridian

[RiVaN_]

This paragraph really speaks to the foundational flaws of the Galactic Command system.

 

I can't agree more!

[ScottishDrunk]

As I've said several times, there is a very easy and quick fix for PVE

 

Leave Galactic command as it is

 

Reintroduce gear tokens on ops bosses, and non set piece pieces in flashpoints.

 

Do not reinstated priority ops

 

This way CXP replaces priority.

 

You can still get something decent from the RNG gods, but can still gear the traditional way.

 

Solo players can still get gear via CXP

 

You The Devs get to keep your crappy system, and we the players get to ignore it.

 

Just

Add

Loot

Tables

 

 

It's that simple...

[Aeristash]

I wish you had held your ground, Bioware. Give the angry mob an egg and they'll be back for the whole hen house next.

[MaikSunas]

So far out of 65~70 crates total across all alts I have 1 set of 230 gloves one 230 junk implant and one SA relic across 24 alts. Seriously someone gets some kills/cxp and he earns what, an empty saber and some Jawa scrap ? Whats the point of all the grinding if the player cant even gear ONE alt out of ~25 alts with 70 RNG crates ? Getting Green items is also not good idea are we into Cartel Packs RNG for gearing now ? Some friend has also 1 set out of similar amount of crates and he got same piece again (legs/legs) simply pathetic. To be fair as the game is going forward the only kind of players that will left playing will be the ones that care about romancing XYZ Companion and if u will make a new Companion for them since we only have 5000 companions already only , the veteran players are into extinction like jedi's at Episode 4 of star wars movie. I highly suggest to stop this endless grinding, on EACH crate we need something like some sort of exchangeable tokens "Bound to Legacy" based. Add ventors that we can exchange those tokens for pieces and last make Grinder Rank Legacy Wide and drop it to lets say ~200 RANK or even less. No point in farming something we already FARM for 4years at least.

[AlienEyeTX]

Somehow I lost fate in your "changes" and fear what nonsense you came up with now!

 

Exactly. You just know they're going to goof it up and introduce something completely random that nobody wants. When have they ever NOT done that?

[KendraP]

I wish you had held your ground, Bioware. Give the angry mob an egg and they'll be back for the whole hen house next.

 

Personally I'm happy to hear they are addressing my concerns. They encouraged me to make more alts and have made it nearly impossible to gear them. And I'm someone that plays a minimum of about 3 hours a day. In my opinion, which I believe is perfectly legitimate and logical, this is ridiculous.

 

They also are looking into ways to get specific pieces. If this is the vendor that sells stuff once you get to 200, I've one the math elsewhere and it'd be 4 months almost before i oukd use the vendor on one toon. How is this too fast, exactly?

 

Finally, in 44 levels I've gotten 2 set pieces of 230 gear (pants and chest). Because of the way I gear, i also have to find someone who can craft the tanking b mods (I like the higher endurance more than the extra defense rating). So now I need schematica amd crafting stuff too. Oh and the jawas don't have the level 10 mats.

 

I don't see how these concerns are "asking for the whole henhouse". I gave them my concerns and they are mentioning that they heard them essentially. This is welcome news overall. It gives me hope that they can fix what is right now a rather pathetic system.

[Zhedzaban]

While I like the cxp system and Galactic Command, it clearly needs improvement.

 

FWIW, here are my suggestions:

 

- Add a set piece 230 armour token vendor on the fleet.

- Grant a BoL armour token every 15 cxp levels. This will ensure that even the most unlucky player has a full armour set by level 150, anything after that would help gear alts.

- Significantly increase cxp for flashpoint bosses/uprisings and ops. And I mean a lot. Give ops bosses a chance to drop bop armour tokens.

- Significantly increase cxp gains for class and planetary stories. All of them including classic/rotch/sor etc. They can only be done once per toon anyway so be generous.

- PVP is about right, but nerf mercs.

 

No earth shattering changes required to the current system, and my minor suggested changes would give the players the gearing certainty they all seem to crave.

[Zhedzaban]

Exactly. You just know they're going to goof it up and introduce something completely random that nobody wants. When have they ever NOT done that?

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing

[Elssha]

My suggestions to making it better and more alt-friendly;

 

• Create a toggle to let us decide if we want the CXP earned on a toon to level its GC or get pulled into a legacy pool that any toon we want can take from with all the bonuses (inc LS/DS, boosts, etc) applied as you get them, so it doesn't matter if I take 20 levels worth at once as needed.
  (so if I want to play my alts, but need to gear my raid toon ASAP, the time spent on them still helps my main instead of taking from him)

  
   
  

• Make all the set bonus gear tokens, so if you get a second (or tenth) belt you can at least decide to send it to your alt or at least class-specific tokens so you can change them to the other stance after you know what it is
  (say you're gearing a tank, but sometimes DPS on it - tank set is now full 230's except belt, but DPS is still mostly 216/220 and you get a 230 legs for tank that your DPS could have benefited from)

  
   
  

• Make set bonus items give you more CXP when disintegrated (300? 500?) and make the points you get scaled as you rise in tiers (not sure if this is true since i'm at 45 atm, but I assume it's not)... 200 is getting useless already; I can't imagine how small of a dent it will give when you're closing in on tier 3.
  I would make them
  percentages
  of a level as opposed to a set number. the 10CXP items 5%; set bonuses 25% and the others between them.

  
   
  

• PLEASE give us an undo button! I've taken a good 10 things out now that I meant to destroy. I'm sure others have destroyed things they meant to keep. Make it like a 1h timer with the same limitations the old ops tokens had (can equip, but try pulling mods and it's not refundable anymore).
  

[Ryenke]

You want feedback? I love(d) SWTOR. But I've unsubbed. And I don't see myself subbing again. But, my sub doesn't run out until Feb, so it might not show on your metrics.

 

Your couple of stand-out points miss my problem. RNG rewards, RNG gearing, Massive grind to even earn a RNG chance - is not fun, imho. I find the unopened command crate something to dread opening, not thrilling. At the rate I'm getting set pieces, I'd have to get to level 200 or so to reasonably hope I *might* have 6 set pieces. But probably not 6 *different* set pieces, huh. I'm not going to be playing long enough to bother earning 200 crates.

 

I'm not one of those dedicated raiders or constant players, I was the guild stand-in healer. Regular healer on vacation or sick, they call me. I was good enough to not kill the raid group's progress, but didn't want a regular slot. My gear was always whatever a regular team member didn't need pub side or whatever I'd luck into when I PUG imp side when I felt like doing something. And I'm not going to be geared enough to raid in this system. Do you understand that effects more players than just myself?

 

I've had some extra time the past couple of weeks so I tried. I played. I've opened about 75 crates. But as crates take more and more cxp which would take more and more time - and without any reward in sight except another chance to be unlucky - Well, I know life isn't fair, but I get enough crap in life, no reason I can see to pay Bioware to have crap happen to me in the game too.

 

Remove RNG as primary rewards. Remove RNG gearing (unless it is an alternative to a reasonable gearing system), and minimize the grind. Then I would resubscribe.

 

Oh, I'm not stupid. I realize that won't happen. But your far too little, far too late modifications you might devise to make more palatable this system you put into my beloved game are about as likely to make me resubscribe as it is likely you would junk the system altogether.

 

But, I think you should junk the system. You might get some of the subs back. (I think you should have junked it long before you rolled it out. Maybe it was an EA mandate, maybe it was devs who were just too in love with their own ideas to review the players past experience and feedback in this game with RNG gearing, maybe it was something else altogether. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter.) IMO, the two weeks I've had under the system were about 13 days too much.

 

Sorry for the ramble. I'm going to miss this game. But I did love the game so good luck to you SWTOR team, and to anyone who bothered to read this I wish you bountiful luck and set pieces galore in your RNG.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Ryenke

[Decidion]

... your voices are being heard.

 

You should have listened to us *MONTHS* ago when we first told you this was going to be a problem. You weren't listening to us then, and your not listening to us now. What you are listening to is the click, click, click of people un-subbing.

 

At least be honest with us!

[Decidion]

By the way if you truly are interested in fixing this, the best option I have seen so far is Kid Lee's first method described on his You Tube channel....

 

[Psychopyro]

I've seen people making this claim, but I do multiple pvp matches every night on Harb and I have yet to see this.

 

Not that I disagree with your point. They do need to raise cxp for other activities.

 

Yea I'm not seeing it on Harb either.... I've actually been PvPing a lot more, almost BR 80 (don't laugh).... Although I have noticed a lot of people falling for old tricks... makes my shadow laugh... When I can single handed win an AH match, it's funny... I mean they tried, just couldn't stop me....

[Hebruixe]

Its simple.

 

When I ding a level, I should get something. The randomness should be between something useful and something special.

 

The dichotomy between your game theory and the reality for me as a player is you think 'something' simply means 'anything'.

 

Orange shells are not something.

 

Greens and blues that are no better than my current 208/216 gear are not something.

 

Reputation tokens for things I maxed out 2 years ago are not something.

 

Start from there. then move on to the 'idea' to transition from a DvL content that REQUIRED me to roll lots of alts, to something that will take all my time to do on a single toon. You have both active on the same day. One in the morning, the other in the afternoon (for us in the UK).

 

Read that paragraph back, and then work out the problem. It should never have got this far.

 

This guy knows what's up.

[DarthOvertone]

I wonder if they can turn this ship around fast enough to survive the damage already done?

 

Nope. Could have been the best expansion ever, but BW ruined it with the horrid Command Crate gear grind. They were warned that it was a terrible idea, but they went ahead with it anyway. Good to see they are making changes, but it's likely too little too late. Not to mention that we still don't know what the changes are and will have to wait another month for them anyway.

 

I'm a Founder and have stuck with this game for 5 years. Gonna unsub for the first time ever until they fix Command Create gearing to my satisfaction. It's no fun grinding gear this way, and Alts are near useless.

 

Total fail.

Edited December 14, 2016 by DarthOvertone

[Otaktey]

Hey folks,

 

Please keep all of your feedback coming on Command Crates, Command XP, and Galactic Command. The team is always looking over your feedback and looking for ways we can improve the system! We have been reading everything you sent our way, and there are couple of stand-out points (this is by no means everything):

• There needs to be a way to work towards a specific slot of gear to fill in gaps (especially set bonuses) for people who are unlucky with Command Crates.
  
• Gearing your other characters is too grindy.
  

 

With this in mind, the team has some important changes planned for Game Update 5.1 coming next month to address the above concerns! We are finalizing those changes now and will walk you through our plans during this Thursday’s Livestream, 12/15 so be sure to tune in. If you can’t make the stream we will be posting a recap on the forums. I just wanted to let you know that along with the changes we have already made in 5.0a and 5.0.1, your voices are being heard. We look forward to talking with all of you about the upcoming changes.

 

-eric

 

PS - I will be back on the stream this week so the stream dream team is back together again.

 

Good to hear! Unfortunately, I've already unsubbed all four of my accounts. Mine, my wife's and both of my boys. All you have to do to get all four subs back from me, is put the OPS gear vendors back on the fleets, and let the OPS and FP bosses drop the same loot they always have, just up it to current levels. I will re-sub the same day you implement this, with the same 90 re-occuring subscriptions we've had since 2013 when we left LOTRO because of a change like this, and their DEVS would not listen. The command system, with loot boxes, is a great thing for the casual players that don't enjoy a good OPS run, but it is terribad for players who like to get the end game gear by running the end game content. The CXP boxes can still supplement the "gearing" folks.

 

PS. Don't everyone start bashing me for being a "raider". The PVP community has always run PVP to quickly gear and start building themselves competitive toons for the ranked season. I also did the PVP gearing as well. And taking expertise out was long overdue. Now we don't have to worry about having someone get in a WZ with OPS gear and think they are well geared, when they are just going to get rofl-stomped and bring the team down with them.

[Otaktey]

Yea I'm not seeing it on Harb either.... I've actually been PvPing a lot more, almost BR 80 (don't laugh).... Although I have noticed a lot of people falling for old tricks... makes my shadow laugh... When I can single handed win an AH match, it's funny... I mean they tried, just couldn't stop me....

 

Players are falling for old tricks because the good players have left. I saw the same thing happen on POT5 right before that server pretty much died.

 

This post should tell you something DEVS!

[AlienEyeTX]

I find your lack of faith disturbing

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by AlienEyeTX

[DanNV]

You should have listened to us *MONTHS* ago when we first told you this was going to be a problem. You weren't listening to us then, and your not listening to us now. What you are listening to is the click, click, click of people un-subbing.

 

At least be honest with us!

 

This.