Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Horiizons]

Okay then explain to me what alacrity will do if there is no auto attack to boost and you have to wait for skill's animation to finish ... do you think if you gain +2000 alacrity you will end up looking like bugs bunny doing your jedi tricks ?

 

One thing that's absolutely killing me as a melee is no auto attack. If you right mouse click you attack but it still initiates a global cool down thus not really auto attacking. 1 of 3 things I am tired of waiting on.

 

1. GCD of an instant ability

 

2. Cool down of an ability

 

3. Animation to finish

 

Just feels clunky

[Xenofell]

You could just look at your character and the animations for the specific CC. The CC's have a specific duration. You can count right?

 

You're wrong and your opinion is wrong. I would ask stop trolling this thread and take your ignorance elsewhere, but it just occurred to me that every time you reply this thread is bumped and this unfortunate engine flaw is highlighted to e a few more people. Keep up the good work.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Xenofell

[fallenvirtues]

Listen to yourself. If you clip the animations to the next one as soon as you press the button it will look like crap and be choppy (as it does in wow) THEN you'll complain that its choppy.

 

There's no pleasing you folk.

 

Are you just hearing/reading what you want...Who the hell said anything about clipping/cutting the animation...Why dont you stop talking and sit a few plays out champ

 

And I am fine with the system but there is people obviously having a problem

 

The sync times and response time with the UI should be perfect...It works fine for me but obviously not everyone...Stop categorizing me as if I am one having the problem....Occasionally my UI doesn't respond when I hit a button, but thats not often at all and just in pvp

[sdream]

Im not a game designer but i think this is easier said then done. The casttimes have a fixed duration and cant just be throttled on the fly.

 

Not entirely sure about this who.

 

This would be difficult if every frame was keyed i.e. 2D animation. In 3D you have start key frame and end key frame. Everything else is calculated on fly using vectors and 3D matrices, so there's no problem to speed up or to slow down an animation.

[Elog]

gee why would i be hateful? after waiting for over a year and listening to mythic hype warhammer only tog et a steaming pile of crap.

 

And now, after waiting YEARS for swtor, we get combat that is similiarly unresponsive, just like warhammer.

 

And you are telling me this is a coincidence?

 

But you are using hyperbole like mad which clearly makes you untrustworthy.

 

SWtoR has great responsiveness for being just a few days old. Best a release I have seen including WoW.

 

SWtoR needs to ensure that UI, key press and animations are in much better synch in the coming few patches.

 

Hopefully that will happen but who knows. A thread like this hopefully highlights the issue to BW which is a good thing.

 

And your omment about WAR is simply not true anymore - so if anything that hard learned lesson will be very palpable for BW through the Mythic staff.

[MaceTowani]

Beep boop bweeep. Troll detected.

 

Stop scanning yourself.

[Zakumene]

This has been asked several times by multiple people in the thread but I've yet to see any of the "ADAPT" crowd answer it:

 

WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALACRITY UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM IF WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR ANIMATIONS TO FINISH!?

 

Why would you want alacrity anyways?

 

For example: my bounty hunter gets 5 heat decay per second below 40 heat. Alacrity doesnt increase that. So i can shave off a few fractions of a second to build close to 40 heat, yay, now i can spam my free shot while i wait for it to decay. So i just squeezed in a few extra no-cost free shots over a 5 minute fight. Thats hundreds of damage points bro!

 

Pick better stats, problem solved.

[SnakeBites]

Works on my computer, you sure you installed everything right?

 

A perfect example of someone who thinks they know what the main issue is but infact they have not got a clue. Zakumene, why on earth are you posting in this thread when it's clear as day that you're oblivious about the issue.

[Uldalas]

I've had no problems with this at any time, ever.

 

But then again, 90% of the people who have no problem with the game don't come to the forums.

 

Maybe if all the people whining about this game cry all at once, it'll flood bioware and shut them down for good! Keep trying guys!

 

I've have not noticed this problem at any time, ever.

 

But then again, 20% of the people who have no problem with the game don't come to the forums.

 

Maybe if all the people whining about this game cry all at once, it'll flood bioware and they will fix their game!

 

I fixed your post!

[Caligari]

Seeing them address this issue would be great. At first I thought it was lag when I played during the beta, but now agree it has to do with the animation lengths. I've started to hit all of my abilities twice now to make sure they actually fire off when I expect them to.

[JediMasterShake]

I came here to post my opinion but this guy already nailed it. I underlined the most important part.

 

 

10/10 perfect post.

 

Thanks, friend. Let's hope BW hears the community on this one. But my fear is that even if they wanted to, this isn't a fixable issue. Not without mammoth efforts.

[SolidTempesT]

On another note,

 

To people who don't see the problem, no offense but you probably don't spam like we do.

 

Cast frostbolt/fireball/frostbolt/fireball, or something like that in wow.

 

Then come here as a Sage/Sorc. Cast one spell after another, switching back and forth.

 

Currently when i do this as a sage, I almost NEVER see my instant cast telekenetic wave (excuse my spelling) or my disturbance half of the time. I see the damage numbers but the animation is missing.

 

This is a common problem for all computers, lags, or anything. My FPS is 90, my ping is 56, and I have this issue.

 

For those of you that do not, my friend does not see this problem. He never did on warhammer either. That is because he does not spam. And no offense to him, but hes not that great of a player party because he has so much wasted time between casts.

[Zakumene]

Is this supposed to be a joke? You want me to memorize all classes CC's, all CC durations, all CC animations, and the exact moment when every CC in game ends based on the animation? AND have a pefect to the second nuclear clock installed in my brain?

 

You have got to be kidding me, you cannot be serious.

 

Absolutely serious. Notice this game hasn't been stupefied to the degree WoW has evolved into? You want to be a serious skilled gamer - earn it.

 

And if you are honestly stuck for the full duration of a CC and can't manage to scan your debuffs to figure out which one is the cc timer in a 5 second time span when you literally have no control over your character - then you have other issues....

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zakumene

[Khoranth]

But you are using hyperbole like mad which clearly makes you untrustworthy.

 

SWtoR has great responsiveness for being just a few days old. Best a release I have seen including WoW.

 

SWtoR needs to ensure that UI, key press and animations are in much better synch in the coming few patches.

 

Hopefully that will happen but who knows. A thread like this hopefully highlights the issue to BW which is a good thing.

 

And your omment about WAR is simply not true anymore - so if anything that hard learned lesson will be very palpable for BW through the Mythic staff.

 

Uh if it was a hard lesson learned then why did they repeat the mistake? swtor unresponsive combat is litterally the exact same issue that warhammer had.

 

If they did learn a lesson, they must have forgotten it before releasing swtor.

[MaceTowani]

Once again, you refuse to explain why pressing a button more then once while CC'd, in the hopes of activating the ability immediately after said CC wears off is an exploit.

 

Once again, you refuse to explain to me what I should do in the situation i described, being CC stunned, with melee beating on me, and i want to use force wave asap to avoid death.

 

 

It is unfair to other players because instead of it being about strategy, it's about who has the best internet connection/button mashing talents.

 

But in a situation like this, your attempts would be interrupted or prolonged. It's just a game mechanic.

 

Looking at the debuff icon and seeing the time left on CC is not an option, seeing as how the debuff icons are tiny, and you generally have 5+ on you with a few melee beating on you. Please explain to me how to activate force wave immediately upon CC break without pressing the button more then once.

 

It is not possible with the current debuff icons. at least not for me, I am not sitting with my face 2 inches from the screen to decipher tiny debuff icons.

 

You are basically saying nothing.

 

Please, give us real answers.

 

I see no problem with you getting off a Force Wave UNLESS you're attacker immediately pummels you and interrupt your cast time and stunts your animation. But that is a rare case unless you're getting teamed or you're up against a good player.

[LaurentiusX]

So just to recap, what high level endgame MMO experience do you have that qualifies you to tell everyone that, the system isn't broke we just have to adapt to a non fluid clunky gameplay style? Cos almost everyone on here who is saying it won't work at high lvl pvp or endgame has a great deal of experience with both of those areas?

 

Just curious.

 

for me:

Everquest,

SWG

WOW

LOTRO

 

Is my epeen large enough for you? So why does this game HAVE to be like all the others? For me atleast it's only non fluid if you spam attacks, it's about rythm which menas you actually have to be skilled, know what do do and WHEN to do it, it's a learning curve for those not used to it but that dosen't mean it's broken.

[Xzenorath]

One thing that's absolutely killing me as a melee is no auto attack. If you right mouse click you attack but it still initiates a global cool down thus not really auto attacking. 1 of 3 things I am tired of waiting on.

 

1. GCD of an instant ability

 

2. Cool down of an ability

 

3. Animation to finish

 

Just feels clunky

 

It's not clunky, it's how the combat works. It's slower and well done. Sure it has hiccups here and there right now with some skills not firing off properly, but for the most part the combat doesn't feel chaotic, frantic button mashing like WOW does.

 

I don't understand why you guys want to go back to button mashing and spinning for 80% of your abilities like WOW. Seriously, have you played a dwarf warrior? Sunder armor, MS, HS, Cleave, EVERYTHING makes your dwarf spin around. It looks retarded, clunky and it sucks. You guys keep saying you don't want to go back but everything you're praising goes back to the horrible graphics and fights in WOW. **** the animations, just make the numbers appears when I button mash.

 

Zzzzz...

 

The sad part is I know this will be fixed eventually, yet some of you are threatening to leave a couple days after the game came out. Unbelievable

 

I can actually fight with my JK and not bother staring at the GCD on my entire bars as I button mash like I had to on my warrior, blows my mind that some of you want to go back to that. Hit 1, animation gets done, hit 2. I don't know why anyone would ever wanna go back to mash 1, mash 2 while the GCD spins on your entire bar, mash 3, rinse repeat. It's horrid, looked like *** and it wasn't fun. The combat as it is right now is great and it LOOKS 600 million times better than WOW's combat ever did. Whatever delay is causing you to have these fits right now WILL be fixed. Every single MMO I've ever played fixed it.

[Paganini]

Why would you want alacrity anyways?

 

For example: my bounty hunter gets 5 heat decay per second below 40 heat. Alacrity doesnt increase that. So i can shave off a few fractions of a second to build close to 40 heat, yay, now i can spam my free shot while i wait for it to decay. So i just squeezed in a few extra no-cost free shots over a 5 minute fight. Thats hundreds of damage points bro!

 

Pick better stats, problem solved.

 

Wow, Bioware fanboys will really rationalize anything.

 

So now you've moved on from saying it's a client-side issue and are now saying we should just not get an entire stat (which is unavoidable if you get epic pvp and raid gear).

 

Yea, that seems like working as intended to me too. <--- (Note, this is sarcasm)

[HoneyBoy]

Why would you want alacrity anyways?

 

For example: my bounty hunter gets 5 heat decay per second below 40 heat. Alacrity doesnt increase that. So i can shave off a few fractions of a second to build close to 40 heat, yay, now i can spam my free shot while i wait for it to decay. So i just squeezed in a few extra no-cost free shots over a 5 minute fight. Thats hundreds of damage points bro!

 

Pick better stats, problem solved.

 

Alacrity might not be beneficial for all classes, but under the current system it's beneficial for none, you still didn't answer the question, in fact if anything you agreed with me. It serves 0 purpose.

 

I'm sure that's exactly what bioware intended

[AkAseo]

for me:

Everquest,

SWG

WOW

LOTRO

 

Is my epeen large enough for you? So why does this game HAVE to be like all the others? For me atleast it's only non fluid if you spam attacks, it's about rythm which menas you actually have to be skilled, know what do do and WHEN to do it, it's a learning curve for those not used to it but that dosen't mean it's broken.

 

First off I wasn't quoting you but I'm glad you played all those lovely games secondly your talking utter nonsense, The castbar and gcd not matching what your character doing on screen has bugger all to do with skill and everything to do with **** mechanics and **** programming.

 

U Mad Bro?

[Paganini]

for me:

Everquest,

SWG

WOW

LOTRO

 

Is my epeen large enough for you? So why does this game HAVE to be like all the others? For me atleast it's only non fluid if you spam attacks, it's about rythm which menas you actually have to be skilled, know what do do and WHEN to do it, it's a learning curve for those not used to it but that dosen't mean it's broken.

 

Mark How, Principal Lead Animator at BioWare : " A key aspect we learned early in development was that players do not enjoy having character control taken away from them because of an action or animation. "

 

 

This isn't working as intended. Stop spreading misinformation.

[Khoranth]

Absolutely serious. Notice this game hasn't been stupefied to the degree WoW has evolved into? You want to be a serious skilled gamer - earn it.

 

What are you talking about WoW for? all good video games have responsive combat.

Ancient EQ had responsive combat a decade ago.

 

when i was a child mario brothers had responsive combat. I don't ever remember pressing a button then waiting 5 seconds to see a fireball shoot out, regardless of whether or not i pressed the button more then once.

 

Putting up with laggy unresponsive combat is not a measure of skill, it is a test of patience with the developers to get it fixed.

[KOAW]

hey all, i am a casual MMO player but i have been playing blizzard games for over 15 years, and played most MMO the last 7 years.

You can't deny that blizz makes "responsive" games. they follow the Street Fighter philosophy of character control. That said even SF2 and follow up Capcom games have animation lag/delay that is put in place. The mechanics of the game play were put in for various reasons, some made sense some didn't, but for the most part the developers knew what they were doing. So for TOR, You really think BioWare is not aware of this "issue" that have been raised?

 

what i would like to see though is some examples of "bad" game mechanics in TOR. i read in a post where 1 spell you threw a light sabre and had to wait for it to return to do something, that to me makes sense. there should be some CD, even if you cancel, you can't just cut animation and allow another spell to be insta cast. In SF2, can you do a dragon punch and press cancel to do kick?

 

again i haven't had time to fully explore this game, and probably won't, so for us noobs can we please have specific examples of what is truly wrong with the combat system?

[MaceTowani]

It's not clunky, it's how the combat works. It's slower and well done. Sure it has hiccups here and there right now with some skills not firing off properly, but for the most part the combat doesn't feel chaotic, frantic button mashing like WOW does.

 

I don't understand why you guys want to go back to button mashing and spinning for 80% of your abilities like WOW. Seriously, have you played a dwarf warrior? Sunder armor, MS, HS, Cleave, EVERYTHING makes your dwarf spin around. It looks retarded, clunky and it sucks. You guys keep saying you don't want to go back but everything you're praising goes back to the horrible graphics and fights in WOW. **** the animations, just make the numbers appears when I button mash.

 

Zzzzz...

 

The sad part is I know this will be fixed eventually, yet some of you are threatening to leave a couple days after the game came out. Unbelievable

 

I can actually fight with my JK and not bother staring at the GCD on my entire bars as I button mash like I had to on my warrior, blows my mind that some of you want to go back to that. Hit 1, animation gets done, hit 2. I don't know why anyone would ever wanna go back to mash 1, mash 2 while the GCD spins on your entire bar, mash 3, rinse repeat. It's horrid, looked like *** and it wasn't fun. The combat as it is right now is great and it LOOKS 600 million times better than WOW's combat ever did. Whatever delay is causing you to have these fits right now WILL be fixed. Every single MMO I've ever played fixed it.

 

This.

[Paganini]

hey all, i am a casual MMO player but i have been playing blizzard games for over 15 years, and played most MMO the last 7 years.

You can't deny that blizz makes "responsive" games. they follow the Street Fighter philosophy of character control. That said even SF2 and follow up Capcom games have animation lag/delay that is put in place. The mechanics of the game play were put in for various reasons, some made sense some didn't, but for the most part the developers knew what they were doing. So for TOR, You really think BioWare is not aware of this "issue" that have been raised?

 

what i would like to see though is some examples of "bad" game mechanics in TOR. i read in a post where 1 spell you threw a light sabre and had to wait for it to return to do something, that to me makes sense. there should be some CD, even if you cancel, you can't just cut animation and allow another spell to be insta cast. In SF2, can you do a dragon punch and press cancel to do kick?

 

again i haven't had time to fully explore this game, and probably won't, so for us noobs can we please have specific examples of what is truly wrong with the combat system?

 

.... read the OP....