Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Xcore]

I have read nearly everything in this thread and the thread before it, before putting in my own bit. This took the better part of a day and a half between having my companion do Slicing//tab back out to read. I finally caught up to the growing pages.

 

I wanted to thank everyone who attempted to add information to this listed issue-- even if some of you come off hostile while doing so. I'd also like to thank a few of the trolls for a lot of good laughs. It was entertaining to break the constant post perusing.

 

I experienced this firstly on my own Sorcerer. I tend to try chaining spells together-- Crushing Darkness to Affliction, Force Lightning//Lightning Strike to Shock-- and sometimes it would work. Sometimes it would not. Glad to see I was FAR from the only one.

 

I am in fact going to be upgrading my video card soon-- an 8600 GTS GeForce isn't really cutting it so much anymore. (I've 8 GB of RAM so I'm sure that's fine) Anyway. Big thanks to Xcore and everyone else that took time trying to examine what issues existed for this problem and what might solve them. Even when arguments arose, it progressed, and that's a telling thing when spanned across....350+ pages.

 

Tyvm for being so interested and the kind words too!

[Larlar]

That video is VERY interesting...

 

It certainly is.

 

I wonder if part of this problem is related to the fact that loads of players, including me, use their right click as a sort of permanent camera turning function? In combat, I basically have right click held down at all times, as I try to move constantly while hammering out abilities (which are all key/mouse bound bar none) and altering my viewpoint so that I get the best possible overview of combat. As a result I'm perpetually irritated by the camera resetting. But I've noticed that this is part of the clunkiness.

 

I can't do any tests at present but perhaps this has some effect and may be a way to make things at least a little better?

 

Could having the right mouse button held down constantly be part of the issue I guess?

Edited December 29, 2011 by Larlar

[Nicain]

Yeah, it looks more real when the animations go through, when you block blaster attacks with a saber, and at the same time use skills. I like it. Too bad not all can like the same thing.

 

They wanted to make the fights look more cinematic, so I doubt there's anything to be changed. It is the way it's meant to be with the animations...

 

Bascially this. If you're using an attack or defense animation, that animation should CONCLUDE before the next one. I think one of the things people aren't getting, for damage over time attacks is in most games when you drop a DOT something occurs quick, where the enemy then had damage dealt to them over the time period. In this game, the attack itself is basically the DOT, so it needs to be fully concluded before you go to the next attack.

[Khoranth]

I suspect there will be thousands having the same feeling. I totally know what you mean when you say you have 'glue in your hands'. Its an almost unquantifiable characteristic that the vast majority of gamers won't be able to articulate effectively - and many won't even try. The game just feels sluggish for all of the reasons (and maybe more) contained in this thread.

 

For every person that posts about it in this thread, how many wont bother and will simply cancel instead?

 

For me, this is a catastrophic error from Bioware. Given the simple reality that so many people will come to this game directly from World of Warcraft, its astonishing that they didn't realise this problem would/could set in - and that they were repeatedly notified of it in beta. There is a lot of random whining about utterly trivial nonsense such as faulty nodes, class balance, lack of quality of life features. Its all bull! This thread is about the issue that will decide the fate of this game. Guess its just fingers crossed time until we hear the official response.

 

What is really disheartening is that EA did the exact same thing with warhammer. Warhammer had basically the exact same problem, and everyone i beta begged the dev's to fix it before release, and they didn't.

 

EA just released a nowhere near finished product in warhammer, did a cash and grab on box sales, and laughed all the way to the bank, and then blamed mythic and fired most of them.

 

I wonder if EA will blame bioware and fire all of them ( like they did mythic)if this issue does not get fixed soon and 75% or more of players quit ( like warhammer)

 

We all know it was EA that forced out an unfinished product, not bioware. But I expect bioware will get the same treatment as mythic, this is the last EA MMO i ever buy, i guarantee you that at least.

 

It is really sick, exact same problem as warhammer, exact same cash and grab scam from EA.

[Khoranth]

Bascially this. If you're using an attack or defense animation, that animation should CONCLUDE before the next one. I think one of the things people aren't getting, for damage over time attacks is in most games when you drop a DOT something occurs quick, where the enemy then had damage dealt to them over the time period. In this game, the attack itself is basically the DOT, so it needs to be fully concluded before you go to the next attack.

 

Then they should change the GCD timer to match the animation that is going, and they should code in something to prevent button presses before the animation ends from bugging out your character and lagging you out.

 

perhaps a 'ability not ready yet' message.

 

And if you are not allowed to use off the GCD abilities during an animation, then remove off the GCD abilties, that is an obvious problem.

 

then bam, problem solved.

[hoilandms]

What is really disheartening is that EA did the exact same thing with warhammer. Warhammer had basically the exact same problem, and everyone i beta begged the dev's to fix it before release, and they didn't.

 

EA just released a nowhere near finished product in warhammer, did a cash and grab on box sales, and laughed all the way to the bank, and then blamed mythic and fired most of them.

 

I wonder if EA will blame bioware and fire all of them ( like they did mythic)if this issue does not get fixed soon and 75% or more of players quit ( like warhammer)

 

We all know it was EA that forced out an unfinished product, not bioware. But I expect bioware will get the same treatment as mythic, this is the last EA MMO i ever buy, i guarantee you that at least.

 

It is really sick, exact same problem as warhammer, exact same cash and grab scam from EA.

 

 

That is super frustrating. I highly respect and love BioWare. Their games are some of the best quality and have the best story lines in the industry.

 

EA is most likely twisting their arm and I can totally understand the want/need to do a pre-Christmas release. However, if this does not get fixed, and fixed soon, the long term health of the game is on life support.

[FrieAaron]

Then they should change the GCD timer to match the animation that is going, and they should code in something to prevent button presses before the animation ends from bugging out your character and lagging you out.

 

perhaps a 'ability not ready yet' message.

 

And if you are not allowed to use off the GCD abilities during an animation, then remove off the GCD abilties, that is an obvious problem.

 

then bam, problem solved.

 

Yeah, there are other ways to fix this issue and still make the combat look pretty, which I agree it does.

 

Although since they brought up defense animations, does that mean you don't think you should be able to use an ability even if a defense animation is still playing? Sorry I couldn't heal you...was my character decided to dodge at the wrong time.

[Khoranth]

That is super frustrating. I highly respect and love BioWare. Their games are some of the best quality and have the best story lines in the industry.

 

EA is most likely twisting their arm and I can totally understand the want/need to do a pre-Christmas release. However, if this does not get fixed, and fixed soon, the long term health of the game is on life support.

 

Yeah, i really hope bioware can get this fixed extremely fast.

 

It would be ashame to see a great company like bioware have their good name ruined by an EA snatch and grab cash scame ie. warhammer.

 

What is so frustrating is that this is litterally the exact same thing that happened in warhammer, just crazy to think i got suckered by EA again.

[Icecrypt]

This is one of the major problems in this game.

[Khoranth]

Yeah, there are other ways to fix this issue and still make the combat look pretty, which I agree it does.

 

Although since they brought up defense animations, does that mean you don't think you should be able to use an ability even if a defense animation is still playing? Sorry I couldn't heal you...was my character decided to dodge at the wrong time.

 

IF defensive animations are screwing over players and lagging them out, just remove them.

 

but waiting for an animation is better then what currently happens:

 

you press a button to attempt to do something but another animation is still going so everything bugs out and you lose 3-6 seconds lagged out.

[TheHauntingBard]

Yeah, i really hope bioware can get this fixed extremely fast.

 

It would be ashame to see a great company like bioware have their good name ruined by an EA snatch and grab cash scame ie. warhammer.

 

What is so frustrating is that this is litterally the exact same thing that happened in warhammer, just crazy to think i got suckered by EA again.

 

I'm afraid that might be the case.

[Sickarius]

This is the major thing that is bugging me right now. Lack of ability lag is VITAL for this game's success. WoW did it perfect - the combat felt reactive, instant, smooth, and tight. Because of SWTOR's ability lag, even with 90ms as somebody from MO playing on a West Coast server, the delay I usually experience is significantly higher than 90ms. It's really unbearable.

 

MUST FIX ASAP.

[berothop]

any idea if Bioware will fix this problem ?

[bvalley]

Bascially this. If you're using an attack or defense animation, that animation should CONCLUDE before the next one. I think one of the things people aren't getting, for damage over time attacks is in most games when you drop a DOT something occurs quick, where the enemy then had damage dealt to them over the time period. In this game, the attack itself is basically the DOT, so it needs to be fully concluded before you go to the next attack.

 

Basically... Not this.

 

I have to say I laughed pretty hard after reading another acronym created called the BDF (Bioware Defense Force).

[bvalley]

Basically... Not this.

 

I have to say I laughed pretty hard after reading another acronym created called the BDF (Bioware Defense Force).

 

Each member of BDF is granted the title of Biodrone...

[Khoranth]

I'm afraid that might be the case.

 

What sucks is we will never hear the real story of what happened and when/how EA forced bioware to push out the game to do their snatch and grab cash scam.

 

We will have to wait a few eyars for some disgruntled x-bioware employee to finally blog the truth, just like what happened with mythic and warhammer.

 

I don't think EA will get away with this again, i feel the only reason EA even got a 2nd chance at a AAA MMO was the combination of the starwars and bioware names attached to swtor.

 

I cannot imagine anyone ever trusting EA again with a AAA MMO

[FrieAaron]

IF defensive animations are screwing over players and lagging them out, just remove them.

 

but waiting for an animation is better then what currently happens:

 

you press a button to attempt to do something but another animation is still going so everything bugs out and you lose 3-6 seconds lagged out.

 

I'm sorry, the question about the defense animations was for Nicain. I understand your position.

[TheHauntingBard]

What sucks is we will never hear the real story of what happened and when/how EA forced bioware to push out the game to do their snatch and grab cash scam.

 

We will have to wait a few eyars for some disgruntled x-bioware employee to finally blog the truth, just like what happened with mythic and warhammer.

 

I don't think EA will get away with this again, i feel the only reason EA even got a 2nd chance at a AAA MMO was the combination of the starwars and bioware names attached to swtor.

 

I cannot imagine anyone ever trusting EA again with a AAA MMO

 

The attitude from the Q & A is typical EA, not so much Bioware.

Basically all the SR tries to do is stall the community and make it sound less bad than it is.

We're not talking about politics either, just when they will fix the issues.

It should not be so hard to just give some straight answers, the guy is snaking through all quests.

 

What bothers me most is that the fun talks and the Q &A almost seems forced.

But in all honesty Bioware is just EA at this moment and we might just get a quick switch and bait.

 

That's why Blizzard remains successful.

Edited December 29, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[MaxymumForce]

This right here.

 

This will be the defining moment on if this game thrives or it goes quietly into the trash bin on home desk tops.

 

The inability to have your toon do what you tell it to do the instant you press the button will kill the game.

 

I broke down and bought the game yesterday.

 

Needed something different. It is new and neat definitely sub par wow UI and controls. How could you launch a game less then your main competition for the UI ?

 

When a best buy floor walker is saying "if you pvp don't bother the game sucks" you have now left the forums and actually have live bodies telling potential subscribers its broke.

 

1 pissed off subscriber tells everyone who will listen the game sucks. 1 happy subscriber tells no one , maybe a friend or two how great it is. Nature of business. Good word of mouth spreads very slow, bad word of mouth spreads like the plague.

 

Make it or break it bw its right here now, not later.

[hirath]

I was burned by Warhammer and I agree with those who smell EA "cash, grab, run" behind this.

 

I'm not saying the game will definitely go the way of Warhammer, but they are starting down a similar path and one cannot deny the possibility. That is, unless you think SW+BW is enough to make the product successful intrinsically.

Edited December 29, 2011 by hirath

[Khoranth]

I was burned by Warhammer and I agree with those who smell EA "cash, grab, run" behind this.

 

I'm not saying the game will definitely go the way of Warhammer, but they are starting down a similar path and one cannot deny the possibility. That is, unless you think SW+BW is enough to make the product successful intrinsically.

 

Can you imagine diablo 3 being released with this type of ability / combat lag? It would never happen.

 

Bioware better get this fixed before diablo 3 is released or they are going to have a serious problem.

 

EA will probably end up firing nearly all of them in a parking lot somewhere , just like they did to mythic, after the EA snatch and grab cash scam called warhammer.

[TheHauntingBard]

Out of good will I won't ask for a refund but if it is another cash and grab it will be my last BW/EA title.

So far Blizzard seems the better company.

[Rendekar]

Out of good will I won't ask for a refund but if it is another cash and grab it will be my last BW/EA title.

So far Blizzard seems the better company.

 

No RTS has the gameplay of Starcraft, no action rpg has the gameplay of Diablo, and still no MMO has the awesome gameplay of WoW. People might hate it or not but this is what Blizzard is.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Rendekar

[Elog]

No RTS has the gameplay of Starcraft, no action rpg has the gameplay of Diablo, and still no MMO has the awesome gameplay of WoW. People might hate it or not but this is what Blizzard is.

 

I want some of the pills that you, thehauntingbard and Khoranth are using. Is it the red or the blue pill? Seems like quite some trip into fairy tale land.

[hirath]

Can you imagine diablo 3 being released with this type of ability / combat lag? It would never happen.

 

Bioware better get this fixed before diablo 3 is released or they are going to have a serious problem.

 

EA will probably end up firing nearly all of them in a parking lot somewhere , just like they did to mythic, after the EA snatch and grab cash scam called warhammer.

 

I pretty much agree. I think this is a more serious issue than those defending the product are acknowledging.

 

(From Wikipedia)

 

- As of September 30, 2008, WAR had sold 1.2 million copies and had 800,000 registered users

 

...

 

- Since December 14, 2011, the game is now down to 3 servers, one for the US, one for Germany and one for the rest of Europe not including Germany

 

In this day/age -- players will not sit around and wait months for developers to address/fix problems. I agree that Diablo 3, or even WoW, will take/take back many players unless BW makes changes.

 

What's always amazed me is how big companies seem to constantly drop the ball on these types of issues. BW could calm a lot of this by stepping up and addressing the problems beyond two vague sentences.

 

In the end though, everything is going to be ok. We're still capitalists. We vote with our wallet. If BW does not respond, and enough players are annoyed, we as consumers will render their product obsolete.