Bioware, Your Game Isn't Fun Anymore.

[Voemel]

I just want to give my thoughts on the 5.0 expansion.

 

It's not fun.

 

Lets start a few months back.....

Bioware creates an event, DvL, that encourages us to create lots of alts and play them to an advanced level. And to also encourage us to complete lots of different kinds of content within the game. Cool. I'm ok with that.

 

I have been here since launch and had not completed some of that content. So, I create 9 new characters and completed the Legendary achievement for the event. It was a long haul through a lot of stuff I had already done and some I had not. I created toons in new rolls, such as healing, that I had not played before in order to break up the monotony. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed DvL.

 

Now comes 5.0. It's not fun.

 

First, Bioware takes away my achievement for the DvL event. A lot of time and effort feels wiped away. That's not nice.

 

With Galactic Command System, playing any of my alts (that Bioware encouraged me to make) feels punitive. Punitive for me, my guild team members, and for pvp teammates. That's not fun.

 

The RNG gear boxes feel punitive as well. In fact, I believe the new gearing system is the WORST part of the expansion. It's not fun.

 

Grinding away at GCXP is horrible. I don't know anyone who plays a game and says "wow, grinding all that crap was fun!". You know why? Because GRINDING IS NOT FUN.

 

On top of that, they ask me to run the same content, yet again, for rewards and GCXP. That content was fun a few years ago. Now? They're not fun.

 

Oh yeah, the new DvL systems is dumb. After doing the original DvL and seeing Light Side win very easily, what made Bioware think the new DvL system would be any different? Watching Light Side win over and over and over and over................ is not fun.

 

So my question is, if Bioware is in the game business, why would they create a game expansion that is NOT FUN? If you actually read this post, the title should have you very concerned. People don't play, nor pay, for games that are not fun.

 

You know whats less fun than playing SWTOR 5.0? ................ Paying for it.

 

I really hope changes are made to the entire system. I have removed my payment info from my recurring sub. For now, I can't bring myself to play. It's just not fun.

 

 

TLDR - This just isn't fun.

 

Good luck and happy gaming.

[cardmonkey]

Same I've already ended my subb

[DarthWoad]

After playing a few days of 5.0 I can honestly say i'm bored of it. Been playing 5 years and I've nothing to do. Maybe I'm just burned out.

 

What am I gonna do until the next expansion? Just do warzones? I've done all the raids. I just can't be bothered to do the same content over and over again. I want new content to do. KOTET although interesting, has no replay value.

 

I've just got no incentive to play anything because I've already done everything in this game. Obviously new players will love it, but from a long time subscriber there's just nothing to do.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Since a "long time subscriber' has said that the game no longer has anything for us, here's my two cents.

 

I think it's great, and for the record I've been subscribed non-stop since pre-launch (minus about a week total but not consecutive)

 

As for the new gear...

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Hell, I just for the first time made a Zabrak character at level 1 and I am going to play her through. Why? Because I've never played a zabrak and because I find the game fun.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

What is fun in this game? Leveling up your characters and making them powerful is fun! Relying on an EXTREMELY slow grind process that's RNG based is NOT fun. I hope someone over at BioWare fixes this, otherwise a very well written story (IMO) will be overshadowed by this mess.

[BrotherJohn]

for anyone that thinks this is an improvement upon the old system, you are just lying to yourself because at heart you just dont want star wars to be associated with this large a turd nugget. the new system is a horrid idea for getting gear. just that simple.

 

now if they wanted a grind after the level grind they should have learned from eso and implemented a stat based Cxp system. leave gear to enjoying content and killing bosses. forget tokens forget all that junk and let the play feel an accomplishment when they kill a boss.

[DarthWoad]

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Really, thank you for this response.

 

Your response just backs up the point that this game is having an identity crisis. It's an MMO. It's a multiplayer game. You're supposed to do stuff together. This "personal loot" just defeats the purpose. The old way was better, even for it's flaws. People worked together and gave out the gear fairly and equally. People worked together to gear themselves up, to get set bonuses etc...

 

What do we have now? We have a system where you can level from 1-70 without talking to a single person (or even grouping up) in which you can get the best gear in the game.

 

Competing against the system rather than other players.....it's just wrong IMO. That's what single player games are for. :/

Edited December 3, 2016 by DarthWoad

[cardmonkey]

What is fun in this game? Leveling up your characters and making them powerful is fun! Relying on an EXTREMELY slow grind process that's RNG based is NOT fun. I hope someone over at BioWare fixes this, otherwise a very well written story (IMO) will be overshadowed by this mess.

 

This is the best post today

[Jamtas]

Since a "long time subscriber' has said that the game no longer has anything for us, here's my two cents.

 

I think it's great, and for the record I've been subscribed non-stop since pre-launch (minus about a week total but not consecutive)

 

As for the new gear...

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Hell, I just for the first time made a Zabrak character at level 1 and I am going to play her through. Why? Because I've never played a zabrak and because I find the game fun.

 

I get where you are coming from, but here's why I think you are wrong

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

1) If you were in a guilda nd did runs where everyone takes turns, this was not a problem

2) Old way, you are at least competing/rolling on the particular piece of gear you need. Not a chance at hand piece #3

3) Old way, you run a HM, you get HM gear. New way You have to grind CXP to Tier 2 before you can earn HM gear- regardless of skill level.

 

SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

But the problem here is that they let you do any content to earn gear but the XP earned (esp after the nerf today) requires so much more time than anytime in the history of the game to get the gear. I understand they made gear too easy to get in KOTFE by having every drop drop the same tier of gear vs breaking the operations into tiers where tier 1 gives SM/HM gear and Tier 2 gives HM/NiM. Then they compounded that error by making the Highlighted OP of the week where doing EV HM gave NiM tier gear. It was too easy. Because once again, these guys can't find a middle ground to save their lives. Everything is a pendulum swing in the opposite direction.

[Cosia]

for anyone that thinks this is an improvement upon the old system, you are just lying to yourself because at heart you just dont want star wars to be associated with this large a turd nugget. the new system is a horrid idea for getting gear. just that simple.

 

now if they wanted a grind after the level grind they should have learned from eso and implemented a stat based Cxp system. leave gear to enjoying content and killing bosses. forget tokens forget all that junk and let the play feel an accomplishment when they kill a boss.

 

Good point. I think a grind system is needed for SWTOR much like ESO has the Champion system and WoW at the moment has the Artifact Power system. Something for everyone to progress towards. Tying gear to this system was the wrong way to go.

 

I still think the game is fun though.

[Tsillah]

Since a "long time subscriber' has said that the game no longer has anything for us, here's my two cents.

 

I think it's great, and for the record I've been subscribed non-stop since pre-launch (minus about a week total but not consecutive)

 

As for the new gear...

 

The old way: Do a lot of OPS to get tokens to buy gear and for your main hand you have to compete vs. other players IF your particular class's item even drops in the first place.

 

The new way: Do whatever you want, earn command xp, get boxes that give you the gear directly based on an RNG, sure.. but you are competing only against the system, not other players. Really, it's the same thing that WoW has started doing... Personal Loot. SWtOR just took it a step further and lets you earn it via ANY activity, instead of just the top tier content.

 

Hell, I just for the first time made a Zabrak character at level 1 and I am going to play her through. Why? Because I've never played a zabrak and because I find the game fun.

 

You know, my chances against other players were infinitely better and especially in a guild where you help the team gear up altogether your chances of getting your 14 piece set together were just much better. One of the reasons being that the gear drops were reliable.

 

Now I don't mind if you find the game fun still but I also played since the beginning and I don't enjoy this. Chances are you don't care about gear so much.

 

Tell me, how much HM content did you do and if you did, why do you find it fun to have to grind an unknown amount of time to get the gear together so you can do the same HM content again?

 

Because that's the part I don't get.

[DarthWoad]

You know, my chances against other players were infinitely better and especially in a guild where you help the team gear up altogether your chances of getting your 14 piece set together were just much better. One of the reasons being that the gear drops were reliable.

 

Now I don't mind if you find the game fun still but I also played since the beginning and I don't enjoy this. Chances are you don't care about gear so much.

 

Tell me, how much HM content did you do and if you did, why do you find it fun to have to grind an unknown amount of time to get the gear together so you can do the same HM content again?

 

Because that's the part I don't get.

 

I find it hard to understand people who think completely random loot is much better than working with a team to kill a boss which you know drops the loot you want and then rolling for it.

 

With RNG, you may never get that piece of loot. It's ridiculous.

Edited December 3, 2016 by DarthWoad

[AshenK]

I find it hard to understand people who think completely random loot is much better than working with a team to kill a boss which you know drops the loot you want and then rolling for it.

 

With RNG, you WILL never get that piece of loot. It's ridiculous.

fixed.

 

the whole system needs to go and go back to running raids and pvp and getting gear via tokens. the whole rng system doesn't work at all. it's why people have given up on the mindless loot based games. look at the division one of this years huge blunders as when people got it they saw it's just a boring mindless rng loot game.

[Rolodome]

I hope someone over at BioWare fixes this, otherwise a very well written story (IMO) will be overshadowed by this mess.

That's the saddest part. The story is really good this time around, but it's going to be buried in the GC trainwreck.

 

Never in memory before have I ever simultaneously loved and hated different features in the same game to the degree that I do with kotet story and galactic command.

[eriksarcasm]

It all seems the same to me, vis a vis rolling against other players vs. rolling against nothing. It's still RNG. I don't think I've ever gotten a usable piece of gear in a FP/OP since 4.0 dropped. I used to get nice moddable pieces and weapons from every FP but no more. Now it's all tank gear on my DPS, non stop, if anything.

 

At least they've assured us that the GC gear drops will be class-appropriate. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

[DarthWoad]

It all seems the same to me, vis a vis rolling against other players vs. rolling against nothing. It's still RNG. I don't think I've ever gotten a usable piece of gear in a FP/OP since 4.0 dropped. I used to get nice moddable pieces and weapons from every FP but no more. Now it's all tank gear on my DPS, non stop, if anything.

 

At least they've assured us that the GC gear drops will be class-appropriate. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

 

That's why you get a good raiding team and ask nicely for that piece of gear. If you want the gear and If you don't want to get a good raiding team and don't wanna do raids, then you shouldn't get that piece of gear. That's how I view things.

 

It's completely different than rolling against nothing. Becuase the old way gave you options.

Edited December 3, 2016 by DarthWoad

[LordTynell]

Here...

 

I found this little known game that still does everything right:

 

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/

[Dunderheid]

It all seems the same to me, vis a vis rolling against other players vs. rolling against nothing. It's still RNG. I don't think I've ever gotten a usable piece of gear in a FP/OP since 4.0 dropped. I used to get nice moddable pieces and weapons from every FP but no more. Now it's all tank gear on my DPS, non stop, if anything.

 

At least they've assured us that the GC gear drops will be class-appropriate. Can anyone confirm or refute this?

 

Can't say for set gear, because I haven't seen any yet, but for the rest my Rage Jug has seen knives scatterguns and guns for the other gear drops

[Wayshuba]

Can't say for set gear, because I haven't seen any yet, but for the rest my Rage Jug has seen knives scatterguns and guns for the other gear drops

 

In other words, after grinding a bunch of CxP, you got a crate with stuff you can disintegrate for more CxP

 

This system is a complete and utter trainwreck.

[eriksarcasm]

That's why you get a good raiding team and ask nicely for that piece of gear.

 

Exactly right but it was rare even to SEE a piece I need and want to roll on.

 

Can't say for set gear, because I haven't seen any yet, but for the rest my Rage Jug has seen knives scatterguns and guns for the other gear drops

 

Well ****... another lie. So nothing has changed. What's the story with them, are they modded? Can you pull em apart and stick the mods in yours?

Edited December 3, 2016 by eriksarcasm

[Neshira]

That's your opinion and it is totally valid. I feel sorry that you are no longer enjoying the game. It does feel to me like the newest expansions are pretty much solo content. Anyone here for the MMO part of this MMORPG is suffering and that sucks for you guys, seriously it does.

 

For someone like me though it's still wonderful. I'm still enjoying the game immensely. To me this game is an RPG first and an MMO second, that's how it was always intended to be. You're fooling yourself if you believe Bioware would have done anything else. Story comes first to them and a solo experience has always been at the forefront of their games. Before launch, during beta, and reading about this game I knew that wasn't going to change and they pressed that in interviews and everything. They said, it would be different from every other MMO out there, that story was the focus, and that it was going to be a Bioware game through and through. That's why I pre-ordered and subbed.

 

I don't like Mmos, they aren't my thing. When they tried too hard to get more into the MMO feel it bothered me. When I could no longer afford to sub (I had a kid, that takes precedence) I left. I came back for the story though and it's been wonderful since. Sure, I enjoy doing things with my guilds and I've met some cool people but if they announced tomorrow that they were going to turn the game into a single player experience and remove all the group content, that they were going to sell it as a normal single player game instead of a subscription based MMO I'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

Your ways aren't everyone's ways, that's what I'm saying. There are gamers who are happy and gamers who are miserable with the changes. Making blanket statements and saying that it's not fun anymore is just plain wrong. It's not fun anymore FOR YOU. Not for me, not for countless others who are enjoying the story and log in every day.

 

I do sincerely hope that they start adding more group content for you though and make additions to the game that will be fun for you and players like you. Even content I won't do because in the end I want everyone to have fun as long as they aren't detracting from the fun of others. If people like you get more content and stay this game survives longer and I'm all for that.

[Dunderheid]

The blues and greens were unmoddable, and got disintegrated. The orange shells are just that - BoE shells, so I could have sold them I suppose but I disintegrated them for CXP. Evey little helps, even 1 CXP golds. I need to get this grind down to under 11 months.

[Transcendent]

look at the division one of this years huge blunders as when people got it they saw it's just a boring mindless rng loot game.

 

Play 1.5, it's vastly improved upon since launch. Sadly, not something I can say about recent developments in this game, just seems to be getting slightly off-track (well okay, it's off the rails and sliding down a ravine)

[Tsillah]

but if they announced tomorrow that they were going to turn the game into a single player experience and remove all the group content, that they were going to sell it as a normal single player game instead of a subscription based MMO I'd be perfectly happy with that.

 

But would you pay 50 bucks for it and then a sub for 12 bucks a month?

 

I also would be happy with a single player game but not if I have to pay monthy to get access to the full game. The problem with your reasoning is that it needs MMO elements for the game to be worth paying for monthly. If SWTOR isn't doing that, why are we still paying a sub for this game?

 

That's why I unsubbed. I also like the story but I also like the MMO side of it and that's what would make it worth the sub I paid before. If it's just about the story I might as well go back to Mass Effect because guess what? I don't have to pay a sub for that and that's the point here.

[Kaisernick]

Good point. I think a grind system is needed for SWTOR much like ESO has the Champion system and WoW at the moment has the Artifact Power system. Something for everyone to progress towards. Tying gear to this system was the wrong way to go.

 

I still think the game is fun though.

 

while i cannot speak for ESO Wow at least has artifact knowledge which gives a bonus exp to the artifact power grind so if you duel spec in the game your secondary spec isnt supposed be as hard to grind up.

 

So far we have nothing like that for alts this command thing is going to ruin the game and the less said about RNG as a whole the better.