gamephil Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 OK so you got intimate with him, why do you think he won't try to get his Throne back? Do you really believe the "redemption" mumbo-jumbo? Depends on what happened, really. If we are meant to view the ritual as breaking him free of some kind of control Valkorion put on him, which is the only way it makes sense to me, then I could see it. In that case, Senya's ritual lessened whatever Valkorion did to him and he is now acting on his own when he wasn't before. Still doesn't excuse him in Chapter 8, still means that something similar could be done to save Vaylin and wasn't even tried, but it works for a truly "now good" Arcann. Otherwise, if it was just "wash away your hate" brainwashing by his mother, aside from being a bit creepy, it also means that his loyalties are kind of up in the air. It would mean that this face of Arcann is artificial and he could revert any time, or perhaps they are lying to us about it. I think he's a dev favorite, so I don't think it will go that way, but it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) OK so you got intimate with him, why do you think he won't try to get his Throne back? Do you really believe the "redemption" mumbo-jumbo? Cos if he does I'll rip his biotic arm off and use it to bat him into a black hole. Edited March 20, 2018 by AbilityDrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 You can be "mortified and regretful" for accidentally hitting your neighbor's car, but not for ordering the destruction of a few planets, treating your own people like sh*t , plundering Imperial and Republican territories.How can anyone excuse that? How can anyone pretend none of that happened? You don't, you spend your life suffering extreme guilt and make sure you bloody behave yourself for the rest of your life lol. Look at all the hell Revan kicked up and people allowed him to redeem himself, doesn't erase their past but they can at least start pulling their weight to help people instead of being a massive bell-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Unfortunate. At least it doesn't sound like it made it worse. I didn't think it was that bad, Arcann even gave me some hand crafted chest plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Unfortunate. At least it doesn't sound like it made it worse. He was surprisingly nice... also very inexperienced which was actually rather sweet. Feels very surreal to say that about the guy that tried to kill us multiple times, who knew an ex-tyrant could be so likeable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehufsa Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 , who knew an ex-tyrant could be so likeable! My cat, Darth Ragnar the Destroyer, can be sweet too, only to scratch and bite 5 seconds later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 My cat, Darth Ragnar the Destroyer, can be sweet too, only to scratch and bite 5 seconds later. S'alright keeps you on your toes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) Note: I may sound argumentative, but this is just another long-winded "me too", really. I also dislike the ritual that freed Arcann, though. It felt cheap, and, considering that we actually see Vaylin get ritualed until her eyes go yellow, much more appropriate for freeing her than him. I would have preferred him to just turn his life around because he realized that trying to be his father or surpass his father was the Wrong Thing than have rituals done to him that were disturbingly like the ones done to her. I cut some of your post down just to reduce size. I think perhaps the reason Vaylin was "irredeemable" (at least from the writers perspective, this is me being purely speculative btw) was that usually, it's the female villain/bad girl that can be "saved"/redeemed particularly when romance is thrown into the mix (or as I like to call it "sexual healing"), while I feel for Vaylin I also quite liked that she refused to bow to anyone, she done terrible things, felt absolutely no remorse for it and point blank tells you to go f' yourself when you tell her that she could still be saved, which is kinda refreshing, 9 times out of 10 it's the men that get to be all out b******* (yes, I know there are examples of other female villians in media being irrdeemable BUT in comparison the number of male villians of that type they vastly outnumber the women). I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I feel that had she been redeemed and romanceable it would've cheapened her story arc in regards to the absolute hell she experienced at the hands of her father. That being said, I can totally understand why people are upset about not being able to romance or redeem her. I also feel that Arcann shouldn't really have been redeemed/romanceable although it makes mildly more sense given that he hadn't been tortured by his father and he still displayed small occasional signs of humanity (not allowing Vaylin to kill their mother, showing remorse at killing Thexan etc). But either way, Valkorion is a d*** LOL. Edited March 20, 2018 by AbilityDrain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 My cat, Darth Ragnar the Destroyer, can be sweet too, only to scratch and bite 5 seconds later. Cats are evil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbilityDrain Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Cats are evil! You're evil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) I cut some of your post down just to reduce size. I think perhaps the reason Vaylin was "irredeemable" (at least from the writers perspective, this is me being purely speculative btw) was that usually, it's the female villain/bad girl that can be "saved"/redeemed particularly when romance is thrown into the mix (or as I like to call it "sexual healing"), while I feel for Vaylin I also quite liked that she refused to bow to anyone, she done terrible things, felt absolutely no remorse for it and point blank tells you to go f' yourself when you tell her that she could still be saved, which is kinda refreshing, 9 times out of 10 it's the men that get to be all out b******* (yes, I know there are examples of other female villians in media being irrdeemable BUT in comparison the number of male villians of that type they vastly outnumber the women). I suppose it's refreshing in the sense that the guy got that specific arc for once, but I never saw them, or her specifically, really fitting into the "romance to redeem" trope. Her's is a different one, and in my opinion an even worse one. She is the child prodigy that is tortured into madness and then just has to die, which in my experience is almost always a girl. Being able to romance her to be good would, you're right, have robbed her. Having to make her kneel in pain to her abuser just robbed her of so much more, as did listening to said abuser rather than acting while she was on her hands and knees. Compared to those moments, her dying on her feet (I might add, screaming, when her mother and her brother were both stoic if you kill them) did not really help me much. I was never interested in a romance arc with her. I was only ever interested in not having to torture her further, even if she still died at the end. Her simply smiling up at my character like a warrior as she stood impaled would have helped, too: let her die a ******, after my character not torturing her. I'd much prefer to have been able to get her help, but I would have settled for not making it worse and her having a better end. I would have loved it if they'd subverted this horrid and overused trope, but they didn't. It's a shame, and in a vast sea of "mentally ill abuse victim goes bad and has to be killed", it's certainly the worst I can remember. Chapter 9 helps. It just doesn't make up for it, especially since she starts out under the dick's control again. Good call calling him that, because it is so very true. Edited March 20, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpeople Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 How it ends is confusing and is why it's open to a lot of speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) How it ends is confusing and is why it's open to a lot of speculation. I think so. Or, maybe it's that I hope so. I have no real doubt of what the devs' intent was, here. But maybe they'll surprise me, either by revealing that they had a Better Plan All Along and Fooled Us All, which would just be awesome, or by changing their minds. Edited March 21, 2018 by gamephil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehufsa Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Cats are evil! Of course they are evil, my cat is doing time in "Kitten Belsavis" aka bathroom for the heinous crime of destroying a 800$ laptop, chewing ALL mobile phone charger cords & original Nokia headset, stealing food even if his bowl is permanently full. If the Dread Masters were to have a pet, Ragnar would be the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Cats are evil! :eek: It seems that at least somewhere there is a benefit from my Allergy to wool ...:eek: #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I think so. Or, maybe it's that I hope so. I have no real doubt of what the devs' intent was, here. But maybe they'll surprise me, either by revealing that they had a Better Plan All Along and Fooled Us All, which would just be awesome, or by changing their minds. As long as I get my Vaylin companion ... I'm happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadessaWayland Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 As long as I get my Vaylin companion ... I'm happy i hope so to i love to have her in my team but bw need to rewrite some of the game a little ad the end when she dies if bw can pull that off am very happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 As long as I get my Vaylin companion ... I'm happy +1 #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 i hope so to i love to have her in my team but bw need to rewrite some of the game a little ad the end when she dies if bw can pull that off am very happy They could always repeat what happened . - Arcann stabs Outlander. - Outlander, showing signs of injury manages to hold it together until back on the Gravestone. - Outlander passes out. - Outlander recovers after two days. But I don't know ... I guess something similar could work. - Vaylin got stabbed (KOTET Chapter 8) - Valkorian absorbed her spirit. - Vaylin's body is presumably dumped in the morgue. - Everyone rushes to Zakuul to stop the Eternal Fleet's rampage - Dream fight happens (KOTET Chapter 9) - Vaylin's spirit returns to her body - In a state of shock and confusion, Vaylin flees into the Odessen wilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 i hope so to i love to have her in my team but bw need to rewrite some of the game a little ad the end when she dies if bw can pull that off am very happy I would love it if they re-wrote KotET to give some choices that I very much feel needed to be there. I mean, in KotFE we can actually surrender to Arcann in order to stop Valkorion (it doesn't work out, of course). I'd love to see some things like that for Vaylin, also, even if, again, they don't work out. I doubt that's going to happen. I'd kind of like Lightsiders to come to the realization that a lot of their actions were controlled by Valkorion, try to do something to fix it (up to the player, of course, I can see LS characters killing or sparing any of these people except Vitiate), and finding out her spirit is still hanging out and can be healed (or helped to move on, I suppose, but I'd really like the companion at this point). It explains what I view as out of character behavior for some of them, and she's back. Darksiders did exactly as they wished, on the other hand, but now can bring her back under their control. I find that awful, but we are talking about the Bad Guys, here. Or, maybe they find her sympathetic and free her and the two go off to conquer the galaxy. Vaylin really isn't any worse, ultimately, than a lot of DS PC's, she just briefly has more power. Or, we see her in a short cutscene waking up in the morgue and running off. I'm rather fond of that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadessaWayland Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 or maby her mother will save her in a way that see did with arcann was beautiful to see a mothers love to give everything to save her son and she was right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackvinils Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 They could always repeat what happened . - Arcann stabs Outlander. - Outlander, showing signs of injury manages to hold it together until back on the Gravestone. - Outlander passes out. - Outlander recovers after two days. But I don't know ... I guess something similar could work. - Vaylin got stabbed (KOTET Chapter 8) - Valkorian absorbed her spirit. - Vaylin's body is presumably dumped in the morgue. - Everyone rushes to Zakuul to stop the Eternal Fleet's rampage - Dream fight happens (KOTET Chapter 9) - Vaylin's spirit returns to her body - In a state of shock and confusion, Vaylin flees into the Odessen wilds. In addition, there was no mention of her, not counting the mail messagess from Arcann and Senya, after the completion of KOTET, so it is also an option to make a mini quest of her return!!!:eek::mad: #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehufsa Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 In addition, there was no mention of her, not counting the mail messagess from Arcann and Senya, after the completion of KOTET, so it is also an option to make a mini quest of her return!!!:eek::mad: #Arcann,Nathema&Vaylin I only hope your precious Vaylin won't be returned at the expense of the JC crew members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulsutherland Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 or maby her mother will save her in a way that see did with arcann was beautiful to see a mothers love to give everything to save her son and she was right Senya dying to save Vaylin was something I expected to see. I'd kind of like Lightsiders to come to the realization that a lot of their actions were controlled by Valkorion, try to do something to fix it Or, we see her in a short cutscene waking up in the morgue and running off. I'm rather fond of that, too. Your art piece ... theswamp one and the Arcann leaving the shuttle one made me think of that. Heh, that's how I've been looking at it, but with a DS perspective. "He's telling you to do something, you know he's evil, stop listening to him!" In addition, there was no mention of her, not counting the mail messagess from Arcann and Senya, after the completion of KOTET, so it is also an option to make a mini quest of her return!!! I think the only lines after KOTET that reference Vaylin are ... - Risha telling the smuggler about her planet being bombed. - Pirate guy saying something about a crazy Empress tearing up the galaxy. - Hexid says something about Kria having an encounter with Vaylin. (Granted this is whenever you talk to Hexid as a JK.) - Lana says something on Iokath. I only hope your precious Vaylin won't be returned at the expense of the JC crew members. As I said awhile back, I'm surprised Zenith hasn't already returned ... my shadow sided with the Empire on Iokath, so I can't see Zenith or Iresso approving of that. Nadia? If I recall she's representing her people in the Republic ... maybe she went home? I suppose the 'Rift Alliance' fell a part as well when Arcann attacked. Don' recall them being mentioned in KOTFE/ET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamephil Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I only hope your precious Vaylin won't be returned at the expense of the JC crew members. Well, several of us have already said that Vaylin's return should not be at the expense of returning companions, and it's certainly not our fault that the Consulars have had to wait so long for, well, everyone. My first character was a Consular, and while I don't play him any more, it's still not great that they haven't come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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