teclado Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) MAJOR EDIT: So apparently the 20 CXP per warzone number was way off. Looks like it's actually over 650 CXP for a win and somewhere around 500 CXP for a loss. Dear BioWare, by removing expertise and warzone comms, you just made heroics and farming gold mobs a much faster method of gearing for PVP than actually playing PVP. Do you understand why this is a bad thing? Take me, for example. Why would I grind until the end of time at 20 CXP per warzone when I could drastically speed things up by farming gold mobs in a heroic at 10 CXP per elite monster? You know, the monsters that take all of 10 seconds to kill? Yep, those. The answer is that I absolutely will not. I might run a warzone here and there to break up the monotony of the grind, but then I will head back to my mob farming. Warzone queues are going to be dead. A solo ranked warzone WEEKLY, which currently requires nine WINS will award 350 CXP. Oh, and yet the group of heroics from a given planet will reward 450 CXP. Also, the weekly from a daily area such as section X / Oricon / etc. grants 450 CXP. Does this seem fair? Hahaha, NO. Let me phrase this as diplomatically as possible...please re-evaluate these numbers. Thank you. Edited November 30, 2016 by teclado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobstah_rofls Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I wouldn't worry about this. People who play PVP play PVP because they like PVP. And there will always be plenty of down time for pve grinding when the que pops less than twice an hour, since Bioware can't figure out how to do cross-server queing like Square Enix etc does. I'm more concerned about all the DPS that have guard now. Everybody is going to be a healer or guarding a healer or getting rolled. But yeah, if I'm going to beat a drum to save PVP, it's putting the East and West coast servers in one data center(works completely fine for ping times etc these days), then doing same-data-center, cross-server queing, and that Bioware should copy Square Enix's approach to their duty finder in general, it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm pretty sure the thing that will kill off PvP will happen 6 months down the road when all the hard-core PvP-ers have finished their grind on their main toons and any new comer gets roflstomped by a combination of gear and practiced efficiency and decides who needs a multi-month grind to even be competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanaussie Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dear whinger, Have you ever thought that more people will play since thry don't need special gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curulz Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dear whinger, Have you ever thought that more people will play since thry don't need special gear? If you believe that people wanted to PVP but obtaining PVP was a barrier to entry. But I'd be willing to bet that most people that didn't participate in PVP wasn't because of gear, they just didn't want to participate in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dear whinger, Have you ever thought that more people will play since thry don't need special gear? Play what, old content that has been around for years? We didn't need the gear for 4.0 either so why change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Another doom and gloom post, sure I won't argue that maybe you'll get more CXP and gear faster from other activities but those that loves pvp prioritize PvP because thats what they find entertaining. I want to fight brains all day long rather then a scripted event no matter if it's more rewarding in terms of CXP & gear or not. PvP - Nothing else matters. Edited November 29, 2016 by Gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strallart Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Clearly, the best solution to all of this is to release another Huttball map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 No one cares in Bioware Austin offices... Well eventually they will. But it will be too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 If you believe that people wanted to PVP but obtaining PVP was a barrier to entry. But I'd be willing to bet that most people that didn't participate in PVP wasn't because of gear, they just didn't want to participate in PVP. Most people I know who don't PvP don't because they don't want to deal with the PvP community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Dear whinger, Have you ever thought that more people will play since thry don't need special gear? Aha, to be ganked by expoiters and no-lifers in cool gear? Im sure they will enjoy it. Edited November 29, 2016 by Glower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadess Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I doubt it's going to be really that doom and gloom. Considering PVP survived not getting new content for over a year, it'll survive the changes here. Who knows, might better, because people will learn the skills and situational awareness for PVP, instead of simply depending on their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strallart Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 This could also be solved by pruning more abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted November 29, 2016 Author Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Have you ever thought that more people will play since they don't need special gear? That same argument works against you: people don't like to pvp with a gear disadvantage. Now in 5.0, a very long gear discrepancy is happening by design. In 4.X, it took maybe two weeks of casual play to get the best pvp gear. The gear discrepancy was only for a brief period of time. Now the gear discrepancy is going to be around for a much much longer period of time, especially if you primarily play this game for pvp. This is regression and indicative of negative learning on the part of the developers. I'm mostly ok with this from an operations and general PVE standpoint. I mean, how long did it take in 4.X to get full 224? It wasn't super quick. Most people never even got full 224. From a pvp perspective, on the other hand, we are going from a system that allowed you to get a full BiS pvp gear set in about 2-3 weeks of casual play to one that will take an egregiously long time at only 20CXP per warzone. If it takes 1.23 million CXP to get to command level 300, that would be 1.23m / 20 = 61,500 warzones. At 10 warzones per day, that would be 6,150 days or 36.5 years. I have a problem with that. I know that I didn't factor in daily and weekly, so let's do that. Looks like the pvp daily is 20 CXP, weekly is 300. So that means you could get (still assuming 10 warzones per day) (10WZ * 20CXP + 20CXP) * 7days + 300CXP = 1840 CXP per week. That means 1.23m / 1840 = 668.48 weeks or 12.85 years to get max command level. For one character. I have a problem with this...LOL On the flip side, let's analyze this for Heroics. I'm going to have to guess a little bit because I can't say exactly how many golds one will kill during a single heroic, but let's be extremely conservative and say five golds per heroic. And each planet has a different number of heroics, but let's go with a conservative estimate of five heroics per planet. Let's say that you run all the heroics on one planet each day of the week. That would be ((20CXP + 10CXP * 5 golds) * 5 heroics + 450 CXP) * 7days = 5,600 CXP per week, which is almost exactly three times the amount of CXP earned from running 10 warzones per day. At 5,600 CXP per week, it would take 1.23m / 5600 = 219.64 weeks to hit command level 300, or 4.22 years. I doubt it's going to be really that doom and gloom. Considering PVP survived not getting new content for over a year, it'll survive the changes here. Who knows, might better, because people will learn the skills and situational awareness for PVP, instead of simply depending on their gear. Of course I can only speak for myself, so take this as you will. But having run the numbers, I'm going to be so busy grinding for gear on my operations character that I simply won't have time to pvp much at all anymore. Burnout is gonna happen pretty quick. I've always been an alt-aholic and this game seems like it had been designed to be that way, but now one will not be able to get any meaningful amount of gear unless they grind hard on a single character. Maybe two at most. From my perspective, these changes are much worse than being ignored. Edited November 29, 2016 by teclado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majopucik Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm mostly ok with this from an operations and general PVE standpoint. I mean, how long did it take in 4.X to get full 224? It wasn't super quick. Most people never even got full 224. That depended on a few things. i can be 2 weeks or 2 hours. 2 weeks if you did KP and EV Prio ops, 2 hours if u had a NiM guild carry and gear you with 2 NiM operations giving you all loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Dear whinger, Have you ever thought that more people will play since thry don't need special gear? Roll a few new toons, complete the lowbie weeklies, then transfer the comms to your level 65 character and you have a full set of 208 PvP gear. It was so simple. I can totally see PvP dying with this new system like OP states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhsknudsen Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Clearly, the best solution to all of this is to release another Huttball map. Better than another Odessen Proving Grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majopucik Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 My main concern here is also the class balancing. You have guard on all now, all classes can reflect, slow, reduced damage its crazy! I really think PVP has become too overdone now and I dont really see me PVPing now, I will rather go for GSF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHAVEDKILLER Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Thanks for heads up I'm farming gold mobs.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm pretty sure the thing that will kill off PvP will happen 6 months down the road when all the hard-core PvP-ers have finished their grind on their main toons and any new comer gets roflstomped by a combination of gear and practiced efficiency and decides who needs a multi-month grind to even be competitive. Which is why this system will most likely not last. It's the perfect thing to keep people busy for the first 6 months or whatever, then change it or speed it up drastically so new people won't get curb stomped. They'll announce some new patch coming soon, make people excited enough, throw in some events and wait. Just maybe throw in that ops people are waiting for. Assuming there are still some people left in this game! Just saying as I'm sure someone else would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForjKlahaa Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 (edited) Where are you getting all these numbers? edit: nvm, just saw it on Dulfy Edited November 29, 2016 by ForjKlahaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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