DanNV Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 IMO, removing Expertise is WAY overdo, so good choice there. RNG for gear pieces, not such a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 That only applies to crystals afaik. After I posted this, I logged in and looked, although the char I was using was only in 208s. For base gear, if they converted all Expertise to Mastery, it would make the 208s fairly close to even. The one thing I noticed was accuracy, which was discussed a bit after this quoted post. I didn't bother to compare to the Ranked gear, since, as I said, I was only in 208s, so I didn't have an accurate point of reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 IMO, removing Expertise is WAY overdo, so good choice there. RNG for gear pieces, not such a good idea. Hiding BiS gear behind months of grind is not going to be healthy for PvP in the long term. Just look at the GSF population if you have doubts about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVindictus Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 This seems to be a trainwreck waiting to happen. Without some form of barter item that allows people to pick the pieces of gear they need, you're looking at a system that just rewards pure blind luck. Some people will get their BIS items really quickly, others will never get them. Not to mention the vendors that carry things other than gear for crystals, like housing decorations, companion gifts, pets, mounts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hiding BiS gear behind months of grind is not going to be healthy for PvP in the long term. Just look at the GSF population if you have doubts about it. Boy...if that isn't the truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hiding BiS gear behind months of grind is not going to be healthy for PvP in the long term. Just look at the GSF population if you have doubts about it. Depends on how much more effective BiS gear is vs the "first tier" of Command Crate gear, and what the time to reach the Valor requirement for Ranked is. I can't say I thought the 208 PvP gear was really that much at a disadvantage vs the 216 (or whatever it was), or that using unoptimized mods was that much of a handicap; in unranked PvP. Obviously that changes in Ranked, but that also depends on the advancement rate of Valor to the cap vs the advancement rate of C level to the cap. (and ignores the RNG problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 After I posted this, I logged in and looked, although the char I was using was only in 208s. For base gear, if they converted all Expertise to Mastery, it would make the 208s fairly close to even. The one thing I noticed was accuracy, which was discussed a bit after this quoted post. I didn't bother to compare to the Ranked gear, since, as I said, I was only in 208s, so I didn't have an accurate point of reference. There is a simple solution to the gear imbalance that hits when 5.0 lands between current Ranked PvP gear and 224 Set Bonus gear. Simply have a vendor on fleet where you can trade your 208 PvP shells straight out for 224 gear, that way, there is no imbalance. The vendor doesn't have to stay there forever, just for 3 months or something like they did with crafting materials conversion for 4.0. Easy fix to the problem. Now we just need to ask BioWare to consider it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Depends on how much more effective BiS gear is vs the "first tier" of Command Crate gear, and what the time to reach the Valor requirement for Ranked is. I can't say I thought the 208 PvP gear was really that much at a disadvantage vs the 216 (or whatever it was), or that using unoptimized mods was that much of a handicap; in unranked PvP. Obviously that changes in Ranked, but that also depends on the advancement rate of Valor to the cap vs the advancement rate of C level to the cap. (and ignores the RNG problem). Since that gear would be used for raiding if it has no observable effect that would mean that NiMs would be nerfed. It's a lose//lose situation Edited October 19, 2016 by Tsetso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 There is a simple solution to the gear imbalance that hits when 5.0 lands between current Ranked PvP gear and 224 Set Bonus gear. Simply have a vendor on fleet where you can trade your 208 PvP shells straight out for 224 gear, that way, there is no imbalance. The vendor doesn't have to stay there forever, just for 3 months or something like they did with crafting materials conversion for 4.0. Easy fix to the problem. Now we just need to ask BioWare to consider it..... They have to touch the gear entries in the database to remove expertise. Rewrite the stats then, sothat the PvP-X item mods to an equivalent PvE item mod (with a suitable upconvert, such that a 204-rated PvP item mod stats change to a 208 or 216 PvE item mod, depending on whether you want to consider 204 PvP to be equal to or just under the PvE SM gear) upon the 5.0 patch drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaithHarth Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 How is this suppose to balance PVP gear from PVE gear by removing expertise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Hiding BiS gear behind months of grind is not going to be healthy for PvP in the long term. Just look at the GSF population if you have doubts about it. So true... I did finally get 1 toon to max out the ships and get the achievements for it... Playing GSF on that toon vs a new one is just a shocking difference. I can see why people don't stick with it, GSF has a learning curve and a gearing grind that is straight up. You just have to get slaughtered over and over and over for a long time before you become competitive. Of course, I said all that a long time ago, and of course got laughed at by a whole bunch of people... who aren't playing the game anymore of course, because of a lack of players... Who's laughing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Since that gear would be used for raiding if it has no observable effect that would mean that NiMs would be nerfed. It's a lose//lose situation Will the difference between entry level and final level command crate gear be as large as the difference between entry level GSF fighters and fully maxed GSF fighters? It oughtn't be, if the gearing model for PvE holds, and both are set-bonus gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Will the difference between entry level and final level command crate gear be as large as the difference between entry level GSF fighters and fully maxed GSF fighters? It oughtn't be, if the gearing model for PvE holds, and both are set-bonus gear. It doesn't really matter what the gap would be honestly. People having way more experience at pvp getting more stats than newbies cannot be a sane design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 It doesn't really matter what the gap would be honestly. People having way more experience at pvp getting more stats than newbies cannot be a sane design. The newbies are no longer limited to doing PvP to advance their stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The newbies are no longer limited to doing PvP to advance their stats. Maybe some of them will gear through pve and then return. IMO it's more likely that they'll avoid pvp as cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Maybe some of them will gear through pve and then return. IMO it's more likely that they'll avoid pvp as cancer. I may be an outlier, but I personally got hooked on PvP via the Forex quest, running common-data-crystal-bought PvE gear on a vigilance guardian. (Possibly not even an entire set, I may have had some stuff I got on Ziost and Rishi as quest drops). It's very obvious that you're losing because the other team is better at ganging up on targets, controlling field position, working better as a team, calling and responding to "inc grass/W", etc. It's not so obvious (especially to a new player) that this is because they take and give out more damage. If the delta between bottom-most level cap gear and topmost command crate gear makes the gear differential obvious, that'll be a problem. But you're more likely to get cussed out in chat for acting the noob than for being geared like one. IMO, of course, on JC. And, of course, all the PvE players and guides will be telling them to up their gear anyway Edited October 19, 2016 by IanArgent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) Hey folks, As we talked about a bit on the stream, there are some gearing changes happening with Knights of the Eternal Throne. For starters, I recommend you read this thread where I have provided more detail on the changes. The purpose of this thread is to go over how these changes will impact PvE and PvP gearing. Here are some more of those details: Expertise is being removed from the game.Any color crystals which have Expertise on them will be converted to a new type of color crystal – Mastery.There is no longer an Expertise requirement to get into Ranked Warzones, this will be replaced with a Valor requirement.PvE and PvP will share the same gear in Eternal Throne.Crystals and Warzone Commendations will also be phased out in Eternal Throne, we will have more details on our conversion plans in the coming weeks. That covers an overview of how the changes will impact PvP and PvE gear in Eternal Throne. Please let me know of any questions you may have and I will work with the team to get you answers. -eric Hi Eric, Please don't forget about this thread you created.. I noticed you've answered from the other... Can we have some answers to the pvp questions from the posts we've already made. Edited October 21, 2016 by Icykill_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechTheHic Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 So one thing I noticed when they put companions behind PvP for PvEers was people who would queue in AFK and move enough to avoid vote to kick. Same at one point when they wanted PvP relics. I could see this become the "easy" way to gear and possibly flooding warzones with AFKers. Will there be any additional actions or tools to combat such behavior? I mean, if not; I may do it. Maybe not AFK; wouldn't want to break the rules after all; but Oh man could I troll and drink beer and still get gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarwarsEmpure Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 when will the server be active for pts ? there was not enough time to test everything when it was opened, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthCasual Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 So is the purpose of 5.0 to destroy thee entire community and hopes that the diehards will stay and this will somehow create so new community out of bad rap and terrible planning ? Seriously I am asking as I have herd no good coming from 5.0 only the shooting of a lame horse in the its good leg. I have been a quiet member of the community but everything I am seeing here really makes me things its time to just let go of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 very obvious[/i] that you're losing because the other team is better at ganging up on targets' date=' controlling field position, working better as a team, calling and responding to "inc grass/W", etc. It's not so obvious (especially to a new player) that this is because they take and give out more damage.[/quote'] It's more obvious than you make it out to be. A sniper has most of the tools to be fairly well equipped to solo guard a node on, say ACW or AH, even OPG. But, if they are taking 90% incoming player damage instead of 70% incoming player damage because they are "bolstered" to 1000 expertise in their 216 raid gear and dealing out less to the attacker, that is pretty obvious. You'll get the message when you blow all of your defensive cooldowns and still go down like a rock and deal out no damage in return. A true tank might fare a little better, and 2018 expertise or not you're still responsible calling out the incoming. The difference when healing is even more marked. When I'm pvp'ing on dps or tank toons and the one healer on our team has 1000 expertise, its like the healer isn't even there. On the rare occasions I've forgotten to switch to my pvp gear on my healers I notice it immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 It's more obvious than you make it out to be. A sniper has most of the tools to be fairly well equipped to solo guard a node on, say ACW or AH, even OPG. But, if they are taking 90% incoming player damage instead of 70% incoming player damage because they are "bolstered" to 1000 expertise in their 216 raid gear and dealing out less to the attacker, that is pretty obvious. You'll get the message when you blow all of your defensive cooldowns and still go down like a rock and deal out no damage in return. A true tank might fare a little better, and 2018 expertise or not you're still responsible calling out the incoming. The difference when healing is even more marked. When I'm pvp'ing on dps or tank toons and the one healer on our team has 1000 expertise, its like the healer isn't even there. On the rare occasions I've forgotten to switch to my pvp gear on my healers I notice it immediately. That's the impact of Expertise and the Bolster mechanics, though. I'm talking the difference between entry-level PvP gear (204?) and the upgraded stuff (208?); as compared to the difference between "entry-level" GC gear and "LEvel 100 GC gear." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 A question I've asked in the pvp forum but I'll ask it here for more visibility. Will bolster be used in level 70 pvp to mitigate against the extreme variations in gear that will arise? Its used at max level now to account for players with a lack of expertise in their gear, given that this will not be an issue in 5.0 my assumption is that bolster will be completely scrapped for level 70 pvp but it would be great to get confirmation one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheld Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Disagreed. How are BioWare going to stop the hardcore PvE players coming into normal PvP and simply rofl stomping players due to better gear? Is Bolster going to adjust all players to the same level? Or are you just going to let this happen (it's one of the reasons why we have Expertise after all, to stop end-game raiders simply destroying PvP orientated players due to gear differences). Has this issue been addressed? If so how has it been addressed? You realise how ironic your post is, right? Currently people with a full set of Expertise gear destroy everyone else regardless of class or skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 A question I've asked in the pvp forum but I'll ask it here for more visibility. Will bolster be used in level 70 pvp to mitigate against the extreme variations in gear that will arise? Its used at max level now to account for players with a lack of expertise in their gear, given that this will not be an issue in 5.0 my assumption is that bolster will be completely scrapped for level 70 pvp but it would be great to get confirmation one way or the other. Based on todays ootinicast it seems clear that there will be no bolster for level 70 pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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