Why Macros belong in TOR.

[Rakorra]

Argurious!!! <3 you man.

 

I quit AOC after all of the F2P patches began destroying things - also the class revamps began dumbing down combat severly so I left.

 

I tried Rift at launch but quit shortly after, believe it or not, I discovered the game supported macros.

 

I've been playing BF3 and SWTOR beta's since. I'm playing on Hedarr Soogn, you should come join us bro.

 

I have a 50 BH on naddist rebels, and im making a republic toon on Anchorhead atm , who you playing with?

[NightHawke]

Apologies if this was already brought up, but if Bioware didn't want macros in SWTOR, why did they put their logo on a macro capable mouse?

 

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/mouse

 

Royalties?

[Yewcantcme]

Your argument AGAINST macro use is that it allows healers to maximize their healing efficiency and avoid damage (that's considered optimal play in a PvP environment), and your other argument is directly contradicting the primary argument of essentially everyone else who opposes macros - that it promotes mouse use.

 

It does not maximize healing efficiency in the least bit.

 

I promoted one-handed playing and healers ONLY focuses on healing. Meanwhile, Im inside the fight, topping the healing charts over players using mouseovers macros, CCing other players, and scoring damn good dps for playing a healer.

 

Argurious, an old buddy of mine from AOC, can attest that I both top the healing charts and offer on-scene dps support. I never once had a complaint about my healing or dps capacity in an MMO - ever. In fact, I usually get pms saying how great i did. I've even had people beg me to leave guilds to join theirs because I was a reliable asset.

 

Wanna know the kicker here? I did it without macros.

[_compton_]

Going to repost this quote:

 

"Macros are a pretty broad term for certain convenience and advanced user functions at this time. Some of those features are present as possible key binds in the game, others are not.

We’re not opposed to macros, we don’t hate them, in fact we will probably add them, but probably not for launch."

 

-Georg Zoeller

 

It's more than likely that we'll see at the very least a limited amount of macro support implemented in the future.

 

I assume you all know who Georg Zoeller?

[NightHawke]

But if Bioware liked macros... why do we not have an autoattack?

[Yewcantcme]

I have a 50 BH on naddist rebels, and im making a republic toon on Anchorhead atm , who you playing with?

 

Tartug and Daggamault are playing on my server - same lvl in the same guild. You need to come here bro

[Yewcantcme]

Going to repost this quote:

 

"Macros are a pretty broad term for certain convenience and advanced user functions at this time. Some of those features are present as possible key binds in the game, others are not.

We’re not opposed to macros, we don’t hate them, in fact we will probably add them, but probably not for launch."

 

-Georg Zoeller

 

It's more than likely that we'll see at the very least a limited amount of macro support implemented in the future.

 

I assume you all know who Georg Zoeller?

 

Well, when that day comes /unsub.

 

Then congratulations Wow players, you just began a journey of making a new version of WOW, a game which you're all coming from because it turned to crap.

[NightHawke]

Going to repost this quote:

 

"Macros are a pretty broad term for certain convenience and advanced user functions at this time. Some of those features are present as possible key binds in the game, others are not.

We’re not opposed to macros, we don’t hate them, in fact we will probably add them, but probably not for launch."

 

-Georg Zoeller

 

It's more than likely that we'll see at the very least a limited amount of macro support implemented in the future.

 

I assume you all know who Georg Zoeller?

 

I know George Carlin, and I know what he would say if he were alive today.

 

Yes I know who Goerg Zoeller is. And a lot of probablies and and possibles mean that it is likely not to be put in game. Ever.

[GrumpySwe]

Well this thread got me annoyed enough to actually make my first post...

 

First of all, macros are basically cheating, a VERY mild version of it but cheating non the less.

If macros are needed then the game is not designed properly!

 

My point of view is this, if some feature is "needed" then implement it in the game DO NOT implement macros.

 

Also the argument that others will use mouse macros anyways is stupid, thats like saying some people use aimbot in CS so everyone should have it to make it fair...

Edited December 28, 2011 by GrumpySwe

[YanksfanJP]

Another example:

On my Sith Assassin, on the level I am on right now, I have two kind of CC's that break on damage. Whirlwind and Mind Trap. For those of you that don't know, Mind Trap can only be used in Stealth.

If macros were available, I would make a simple macro that combined those two spells and would look something like this:

 

/cast [stealth] Mind Trap; Whirlwind

 

If I'm in Stealth, the macro will try to cast Mind Trap on my target, otherwise it would cast Whirlwind. All this macro does is to save up one actionbar slot and one keybinding. Please tell me how this makes me a worse player and a cheater.

 

Because you're not good enough to remember what button you have to press in order to cast which spell. You just press the same button no matter what. For all intents and purposes, your CC is an Arcane Mage. That makes you a worse player.

[klathnagma]

I will admit, I have the Star Wars Razer mouse, and the Stealth Ultimate keyboard from Razer.

Lol NightHawke. You are telling people that want macros they are bads because they just want things easier in game, and at the same time you have a 17 buttons mouse and a programmable keyboard with extra in-game function keys ?

 

Don't you see that just your hardware makes the game so much easier to play than to play with a 2 button mouse, a generic keyboard and in-game macro support would ever be ?

 

How can you with a straight face tell us we want just everything easy, when we just want to have some abilities more at hand, and at the same time you are using hardware that let you use those abilities with just your thumb ?

 

This is some sort of double standard, isn't it ? We are dumbs because we want to have better placed and at hand some abilities. You are not because you spent 400€ to have them at your thumb.

 

Hilarious if you ask me.

Edited December 28, 2011 by klathnagma

[Vohh]

I personally cannot see myself playing endgame for long without macros and target of target.

I am not going to buy a expensive keyboard to do things that should already be in game.

 

People that do have programmable keyboards/mice are actually having fun looking at visuals instead of there bars, unlike me staring waiting for reactives to pop or cd's to end.

It is such a core mmo feature that I cant believe it wasn't hotfixed in.

 

To all the people that don't want macros: don't use them and let me play as I like

[PALE_PWNR]

Haha, I love how every time someone posts they don't want macros and says why the OP has to respond with, "You clearly didn't read my post...etc." I read your post I don't want macros because it does make the game easier. Yes you are going to tell me that it adds significant complexity and all that other bull to make your point but no, it really doesn't. You wouldn't be arguing this hard for an addition to the game that makes life more difficult, it does make it easier. 2ndly you went on to talk about how hard it would be for healers and what not, honestly having not played a healer myself I couldn't tell you how hard it is but from observing the game since March running countless heroics and flashpoints as well as doing a large amount of PvP, healing is not difficult. I have rarely run across a point where we fail as a group because of insufficient healing. When I have it's because said healer is too low a lvl to compete. They are not needed, game is fine as it is. And yes I will argue their implementation because when they are implemented you are basically forced to use to them to compete.

[Battousaien]

Because you're not good enough to remember what button you have to press in order to cast which spell. You just press the same button no matter what. For all intents and purposes, your CC is an Arcane Mage. That makes you a worse player.

 

Ugh, it's not about if I remember what key I bounded or not. As I stated - it's about convenience and a less cluttered UI.

[compunerd]

Well this thread got me annoyed enough to actually make my first post...

 

First of all, macros are basically cheating, a VERY mild version of it but cheating non the less.

If macros are needed then the game is not designed properly!

 

My point of view is this, if some feature is "needed" then implement it in the game DO NOT implement macros.

 

Also the argument that others will use mouse macros anyways is stupid, thats like saying some people use aimbot in CS so everyone should have it to make it fair...

 

THis logic is terrible. It isn't cheating if the IU allows it. In WoW, macros are allowed, with rules. One example of such a rule is that there cannot be delays in macros. Another is that moves the reset the GCD can't be coupled into a single key stroke. These rules are enforced, simply, by not allowing the functionality in the UI. It's hardly cheating to make full use of a UI.

 

The purpose of macros is to maximize quickslot space. There are so many abilities that keeping them all efficiently arrayed across the available quickslot space is difficult at best. It's not such a big issue in PvE where mobs remain stationary. In PvP, where targets are constantly running around, the lack of macros is a killer.

 

In all honesty, I love TOR so far. That being said, I will definitely return to WoW and cancel my TOR sub if macros aren't implemented. Since all 3 other members of my family play together, I can't afford to pay for both games. I am primarily a PvP player and, without macros in TOR, WoW becomes by far the more entertaining game.

[internets]

New to the thread. I'd like to get the OP's take on my perspective, since he's been pretty vocal in this entire thread (which I admit I didn't read in it's entirety... it's really long. I caught the first couple pages and the last couple).

 

Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, this is my understanding of what we're talking about for mouseover targeting:

 

Hovering the mouse pointer over the ops frame on the individual you intend to cast on and pressing the button you are trying to cast. - The game will ignore your current target that is being displayed on the RHS of your bottom center UI, and cast on whoever you're hovering over in the ops frame.

 

This is something that could be optional in the ops frame portion of the UI settings, not something that needs to be done with macros. A simple setting to "use target = mouseover for operations frames"

 

Also, Please explain why mousing over is different than a click-cast methodology involving a click with the mouse and a keypress.

 

Click Friendly A - heal button (4) - Click Friendly B - remove debuff (Q) - Click Friendly C - heal button (3).

 

 

 

1. Since you're an experienced WoW player, I think I understand what you're after with the mouseover macros... functionality similar to the addon Clique in WoW (which was also possible to manually write macros to do), where you make a left click, right click, shift click, etc. on the raid frame perform different actions on that target... This functionality combines two actions into one, which changes the feel and pace game. Mouseover macros in this sense are an issue of how the designers want their game to work. Maybe they want to keep the targeting and casting a 2 step process on purpose. Maybe they want left click to be for targeting and camera rotation only (ot rant: devs, for the love of tacos, please release the camera from this ridiculous auto-centering nonsense)

 

It's a pretty advanced thing to set up a personally optimized system of macros and would require people to put in extra time - designing their own interface with the game, basically - planning and organizing (or reading forums/fansites and using published macros or methodology) to be competitive against people who were doing the same. This is evident by what's going on in the arenas.

 

It's up to the designers to decide what they want the game experience to be. Do they want to reward people who put in extra time thinking about how to gain an edge? Do they want to reward people for learning to play the game they wrote because they think it's valuable to the experience? (think about their published stance on autoswing)

 

 

 

2. For the focus macro issue, please explain the exact functionality you're looking for and how it's different from what is in the game right now. What do you need target=focus macros for that a focus-modifier key won't do? One button vs. a modifier button combo?

 

 

 

I can partially see where the "l2p" crowd is coming from on issues 1 and 2, seriously... click, heal... is it that hard? If everyone's working with the same set of constraints, that sounds like fairness to me.

 

 

 

imo, It's waaaaay too narrow-minded to say "Give us macros" or "Give us limited macro functionality"

 

They're writing a new game. It's already similar enough to WoW. If the devs want to give players this functionality - Let's invent a better way.

 

 

 

3. The solution I propose is that we need to think like designers, and invent a new way to bake this functionality into the UI options so that everyone can use it equally, without having to add stuff via internets or outside experience.

 

 

 

p.s. this is not as important as redesigning the ops frames to show HoT stacks/durations and debuffs/durations in a way that is relevant to the player and his/her role in the group. Also target's target info on the UI needs to be there, and the auto-centering camera needs to be killed and burned.

Edited December 28, 2011 by internets

[xinloom]

No macro = win.

 

Leave good game good, go break some other game with your rants.

[Yettofall]

I'd rather not see any macros implanted into this game.

Sure it makes a few thing easier, but i'm kinda enjying this "arcade" style push to execute a move.

 

I was a SWG hardcore macro user, i had everything macroed, from following a friend to follow a specific frined it that friend passed by me, crafting, loot you name it.

 

Here none of this happens, and sure if they implement macros I WILL GET a 2nd account and WILL dual box the game, for pure profit with macros, either setting up my heal bot, with his heal companion.

 

Ganking people, solo stuff.

[Vohh]

With macros being available from programmable keyboards/mice if you want macros pay the $ and have them.

maybe they just wanna sell you expensive keyboard instead of giving macros ingame.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Vohh

[sumfizz]

The purpose of macros is to maximize quickslot space. There are so many abilities that keeping them all efficiently arrayed across the available quickslot space is difficult at best.

 

Basically, what you're saying is it takes some skill to play this game. Macros have no business in this game. I hope Bioware never implements the ridiculous idea of macros. This isn't wow. They should never cave to the incessant whining of the PVP crowd.

[NightHawke]

Lol NightHawke. You are telling people that want macros they are bads because they just want things easier in game, and at the same time you have a 17 buttons mouse and a programmable keyboard with extra in-game function keys ?

 

Don't you see that just your hardware makes the game so much easier to play than to play with a 2 button mouse, a generic keyboard and in-game macro support would ever be ?

 

How can you with a straight face tell us we want just everything easy, when we just want to have some abilities more at hand, and at the same time you are using hardware that let you use those abilities with just your thumb ?

 

This is some sort of double standard, isn't it ? We are dumbs because we want to have better placed and at hand some abilities. You are not because you spent 400€ to have them at your thumb.

 

Hilarious if you ask me.

 

 

First off, I dont think your conversion of $ and Euros are ... in sync... Total between the two objects is around $260ish.

 

Secondly, my previous keyboard was a Zboard. Sucky support, but I loved the way the WASD keys were set up. I also had a Razer mamba mouse. If you dont have a 5 button mouse now then your priorities are shifted beyond the norm. There are very few 3 button mice out there.

 

Thirdly, it is a 15 button mouse. it is like the naga epic, but not exactly. And it is only ok as wireless is buggy as hell.

 

Having the extra buttons does not constitute a macro. It is a keybind. You can do it as well on your keyboard. I don't see the issue. Because on my mouse it is tied to my NumPad. So I could punch keys on my numpad or mouse.

 

Really? You see THAT as an issue?

[GrumpySwe]

THis logic is terrible. It isn't cheating if the IU allows it. In WoW, macros are allowed, with rules. One example of such a rule is that there cannot be delays in macros. Another is that moves the reset the GCD can't be coupled into a single key stroke. These rules are enforced, simply, by not allowing the functionality in the UI. It's hardly cheating to make full use of a UI.

 

The purpose of macros is to maximize quickslot space. There are so many abilities that keeping them all efficiently arrayed across the available quickslot space is difficult at best. It's not such a big issue in PvE where mobs remain stationary. In PvP, where targets are constantly running around, the lack of macros is a killer.

 

In all honesty, I love TOR so far. That being said, I will definitely return to WoW and cancel my TOR sub if macros aren't implemented. Since all 3 other members of my family play together, I can't afford to pay for both games. I am primarily a PvP player and, without macros in TOR, WoW becomes by far the more entertaining game.

Thats my point, if you really need macros then the game is badly designed!

[internets]

With macros being available from programmable keyboards/mice if you want macros pay the $ and have them.

maybe they just wanna sell you expensive keyboard instead of giving macros ingame.

 

This is interesting, I wonder how much money they get from selling the Razer TOR peripherals that come with macro functionality in the drivers. I also wonder what their stance is on external macros. I'm sure the wouldn't be selling a product that exploits their game or violates their rules.

 

ea, bioware, lucas arts, licensing, money... this is all off topic. --apology

Edited December 28, 2011 by internets

[Zaskaszh]

It's not possible to have hardcore PVE or PVP guilds in MMO w/o ability to meter performance of ppl.

 

*sigh*

 

Yes, it is. Everquest. More hardcore content that WoW has right now, or ever will have. For the vast majority of its life, there were no meters of any kind, and yet-

 

Why do I bother? Some people simply cannot be convinced there was life before WoW.

[klathnagma]

First off, I dont think your conversion of $ and Euros are ... in sync... Total between the two objects is around $260ish.

Got my figures from here and yeah it's dollars not euro,so my bad, 400$ not 400€.

 

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/mouse

http://www.razerzone.com/swtor/keyboard

 

 

Secondly, my previous keyboard was a Zboard. Sucky support, but I loved the way the WASD keys were set up. I also had a Razer mamba mouse. If you dont have a 5 button mouse now then your priorities are shifted beyond the norm. There are very few 3 button mice out there.

 

Thirdly, it is a 15 button mouse. it is like the naga epic, but not exactly. And it is only ok as wireless is buggy as hell.

Never get a wireless gaming mouse mate. The wireless delay use to kill them really.

 

But both the epic and the swtor mouse are 17 buttons.

 

Having the extra buttons does not constitute a macro. It is a keybind. You can do it as well on your keyboard. I don't see the issue. Because on my mouse it is tied to my NumPad. So I could punch keys on my numpad or mouse.

 

Really? You see THAT as an issue?

The issue is most of us just want macros to sort our - clunky - user interface to something more bearable.

 

You with your 17 buttons mouse will have things much easier than the average player will ever have. You say it's like to punch in your keypad, but those 12 keypad buttons are at your thumb, and you have the other hand free for pushing whatever keybind you see fit.

 

So to say that we because we are asking for macros to sort our user interface - to be able to play without stretching our hands badly - are bads because we want things easier, and at the same time, you play with hardware that makes the limitations we want to fix moot, it seems a double standard for me.

 

We bads because we want easy, you are not even while you have it even easier than I would have with macros.

 

Don't take it personal, because it don't goes that way please.

 

It's just I think most people here is not getting what in-game macros are for really.

 

In-game macros will give us less benefits than your gaming set up. Don't think why you call us bad players to ask for advantages you already are enjoying.

Edited December 28, 2011 by klathnagma