SteveTheCynic Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Maybe harley's referring to boss resets like what happens during the Jos and Valk fight when doing Blood Hunt in Solo mode. Ohgodnotthat. On my DvL Sorc, they reset three times. That was annoying. And my non-DvL Mara learned something interesting doing Solo Battle of Rishi the other day. If you Force Leap into the second fenced-area boss fight from *outside* the fenced area, the door closes before your companion and Jesus droid can get inside. That was annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I troubleshoot complex systems for a living - ease of repair is only tangentially related to ease of discovery of what to repair. I've spent weeks trying to run down flaky behavior to eventually discover that there was, basically, a "simple text error" behind it. The fact that this bug is present is ridiculous. DvL didn't add anything new to the game apart from some simple achievements and yet there were at least 3 major bugs. And it's not like they don't know how to track that particular achievement - it's listed under the general flashpoint achievements and is updated without a flaw every time i do DoM. Instead they tried to invent new solution( probably too scared to look at the original code ) and broke it several times. Which could be fine i guess if they at least tested their changes to make sure they work before pushing them live. Apparently testing is a new concept to them too. I can understand all of this happening if they were some small indy studio with no resources available, but clearly that's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) I can understand all of this happening if they were some small indy studio with no resources available, but clearly that's not true.Isn't that the truth lol. People act like EA is some tiny little studio, barely hanging on in the competitive gaming market. They took in 4.5 BILLION dollars last year...Billion...with a B...they have all the resources they could ever dream of having. Edited September 7, 2016 by TUXs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 The fact that this bug is present is ridiculous. DvL didn't add anything new to the game apart from some simple achievements and yet there were at least 3 major bugs. And it's not like they don't know how to track that particular achievement - it's listed under the general flashpoint achievements and is updated without a flaw every time i do DoM. Instead they tried to invent new solution( probably too scared to look at the original code ) and broke it several times. Which could be fine i guess if they at least tested their changes to make sure they work before pushing them live. Apparently testing is a new concept to them too. I can understand all of this happening if they were some small indy studio with no resources available, but clearly that's not true. I'd be unsurprised if they knew that the DoM flag wouldn't pop for DvL under certain circumstances and shipped anyway. Goes back to "triage of bugs." It's not an immediate showstopper; they had months from when DvL went live to run it down and fix it, months in which the rest of the patch and content would be playable. It's simply not a "critical, can't play game" issue. In an emergency, they could always remove that flag from the requirements if they could find the cause by deadline. Not being able to score DoM for DvL purposes doesn't stop you from playing the game. I'd also be unsurprised if they are afraid to mess with the legacy tags and flags; I've maintained for a while that there is something deeply broken inside the story flags database; the vast majority of issues in KotFE and 4.x have been related to missing or otherwise broken event flags. That may or may not even be the fault of current devs or management; there's been hints of issues there at least since SoR and possibly previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Isn't that the truth lol. People act like EA is some tiny little studio, barely hanging on in the competitive gaming market. They took in 4.5 BILLION dollars last year...Billion...with a B...they have all the resources they could ever dream of having. Allow me to recommend the Mythical Man Month to you. There are some problems that cannot be solved by more resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Isn't that the truth lol. People act like EA is some tiny little studio, barely hanging on in the competitive gaming market. They took in 4.5 BILLION dollars last year...Billion...with a B...they have all the resources they could ever dream of having. ... whut? People are saying EA's struggling in the gaming department? FIFA is their blasted flagship of income. EA's talent is more in the disposable games like FIFA, Madden NFL, and games that aren't overly story based. Games based on movies might be a bit of a crapshoot, however, but EA's... huge. MAkes most of the games on the shelf in stores and stuff (okay, console games, but still, games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedia Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Allow me to recommend the Mythical Man Month to you. There are some problems that cannot be solved by more resources. No, the truth is, EA does not want to give them the resources they need. Furthermore, they shut down QA. They are perfectly happy to let their cash cow wade into the river and drown itself, or so it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 What exactly is broken with Manaan? Is it shield on first boss? Or time limit in last boss fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 What exactly is broken with Manaan? Is it shield on first boss? Or time limit in last boss fight? You don't get credited for completing the FP under the DvL achievements. This is supposed to be fixed in today's patch, at least in part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Allow me to recommend the Mythical Man Month to you. There are some problems that cannot be solved by more resources. When James Ohlen is telling some fan that they can only work on one thing at a time, that's a resource problem. I understand what you're saying, more people doesn't mean less bugs or anything like that, but more people should = more content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedguy Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 No, the truth is, EA does not want to give them the resources they need. Furthermore, they shut down QA. They are perfectly happy to let their cash cow wade into the river and drown itself, or so it seems. Most definitely. According to SWTOR Economics, the game has been loosing money year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahduth Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 We're all just going to ignore the possibility they have someone working on the expansion huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_mike Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Most definitely. According to SWTOR Economics, the game has been loosing money year after year. And according to the EA quarterly financial reports, it's their 3rd top money maker. Isn't it amazing how you can get numbers to say different things? Oh wait. We don;t get numbers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 No, the truth is, EA does not want to give them the resources they need. Furthermore, they shut down QA. They are perfectly happy to let their cash cow wade into the river and drown itself, or so it seems. SWTOR's not exactly a cash cow. FIFA is their flagship cash cow franchise. EA's income is (based on what they release) more on the "play it, beat it, get the next one" games, not the "play it, wait for an expansion, repeat" system because the latter system would require more work and MMOs like WoW and SWTOR seem to be more on the dying side of games styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Allow me to recommend the Mythical Man Month to you. There are some problems that cannot be solved by more resources. "Project manager is a person who thinks that 9 women can bear a child in 1 month" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedia Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 SWTOR's not exactly a cash cow. FIFA is their flagship cash cow franchise. EA's income is (based on what they release) more on the "play it, beat it, get the next one" games, not the "play it, wait for an expansion, repeat" system because the latter system would require more work and MMOs like WoW and SWTOR seem to be more on the dying side of games styles. Well, from what I've heard, the Legion expansion is the best one since Wrath. This may help other MMOs as well. Not that I'm looking to play it or anything... *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedguy Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 And according to the EA quarterly financial reports, it's their 3rd top money maker. Isn't it amazing how you can get numbers to say different things? Oh wait. We don;t get numbers..... Yeah. No idea what how the game really is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 You don't get credited for completing the FP under the DvL achievements. This is supposed to be fixed in today's patch, at least in part. Tactical one? I have already completed achievement on one server. Got credit for completing Manaan after first try. I still have to do it on my main server. I wanted to do it few days ago but just don't feel like playing PT now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 When James Ohlen is telling some fan that they can only work on one thing at a time, that's a resource problem. I understand what you're saying, more people doesn't mean less bugs or anything like that, but more people should = more content. So why is it EA's responsibility to subsidize SWTOR with their FIFA moeny? I see this assumption going around these threads, that because EA as a whole has a lot of money, some of that should come through to SWTOR. SWTOR should be paying its own way; and I've yet to see any evidence that it's ever been a major money-maker. It obviously survives, and probably does turn a profit for EA, but it's not a mega-hit. Who knows if they've even managed to pay back the initial investment from EA in the first place, either? I've said it before and I'll say it again - story is dirt-cheap. The main limitation on SWTOR-style "story" is time for the VAs to record lines (something you can't really throw a lot of resources at to increase, again, since VA time is limited). Mechanics is hard, playtesting of mechanics is hard, QA of mechanics is hard. And while they're somewhat more amenable to having money thrown at them, it's not a linear relationship. Good game designers are somewhat more scarce than good story writers, and playtesting and QA are absolutely places where the Mythical Man Month comes into play, because the playtesters and QA teams have to have fairly specific "domain knowledge" that isn't easily portable. Now, all that having been said, this year really ought not to have been a "rebuilding" year - I will have much higher expectations for the KotET expansion cycle than I did for KotFE. I've heard no evidence of major changes like 4.0 did to foundational game mechanics, for one thing. They built a bunch of tools and processes that they haven't fully utilized in KotFE; I expect they'll do more with them in KotET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnycat Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 ... MMOs like WoW and SWTOR seem to be more on the dying side of games styles. ... I hope this isn't true - MMO's are the only game I enjoy Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 And according to the EA quarterly financial reports, it's their 3rd top money maker. Isn't it amazing how you can get numbers to say different things? Oh wait. We don;t get numbers..... Well, to be fair, profitable and largest revenue stream are two different things. That is not to say that the game is not making a profit. That is certainly possible, and of course we are not privy to internal numbers. One could say that, based on public information, number of players and revenue is up. Whether or not that means more subs and a profit is speculative at best in the absence of more information. I tend to think it is likely the profit is there, but it is not likely a huge one, all things being equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 So why is it EA's responsibility to subsidize SWTOR with their FIFA moeny?That's random lol...I never said it was...hell, I don't even believe SWTOR subsidizes SWTOR...I think SWTOR is simply a budget title, period. All SWTOR revenue just gets added to the EA coffers and SWTOR gets a yearly budget. I believe that budget is inadequate if KOTFE is the best they can muster after a full year of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) Well, to be fair, profitable and largest revenue stream are two different things. That is not to say that the game is not making a profit. That is certainly possible, and of course we are not privy to internal numbers. One could say that, based on public information, number of players and revenue is up. Whether or not that means more subs and a profit is speculative at best in the absence of more information. I tend to think it is likely the profit is there, but it is not likely a huge one, all things being equal. While the numbers game in the forum is always amusing to watch, in reality... the profit vs revenue argument is a nonstarter with MMOs. Even with low populations, MMOs generally are profitable when their operations are scaled accordingly. When an MMO becomes unprofitable beyond repair.. it gets shut down. Just look at DAoC... still chugging along 16 years later, even though it's small numbers. A company like EA will task their divisions to meet both a revenue AND profit contribution targets. The operations budget they give their divisions each year is based on these targets. Edited September 7, 2016 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 That's random lol...I never said it was...hell, I don't even believe SWTOR subsidizes SWTOR...I think SWTOR is simply a budget title, period. All SWTOR revenue just gets added to the EA coffers and SWTOR gets a yearly budget. I believe that budget is inadequate if KOTFE is the best they can muster after a full year of development. That wasn't directed specifically at you - it was just one of the thoughts on my mind. As for the "quality" of KotFE... All of the "refurbishing" work was done flawlessly - Level Sync in particular could have been a huge issue mechanically, and there wasn't anything there. After SoR, I don't know why anyone would expect a 2-faction storyline, much less a 8-class one. The 8-class storyline ship sailed at Ilum, and to a certain extent, so did the 2-faction storyline. The biggest thing they'r emissing (large group content) from KotFE is also the hardest and most resource-intensive type of content. IT's not a question of adding a few more resources there, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 All of the "refurbishing" work was done flawlessly - Level Sync in particular could have been a huge issue mechanically, and there wasn't anything there. I couldn't agree more. I was extremely apprehensive of Level Sync...but it is by far the greatest part of 4.0 imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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