How many are looking forward to KOTET?

[Aowin]

...

 

The problem is BioWare assumed everybody wanted to play through every class story before getting into endgame. I was interested in leveling one class to level 50, then doing endgame. I was going to leave the other class stories for later. Thus, most people quit once the class story they wanted to play ended and there was so little endgame (not to mention broken) most left. It took more than a year for more story to be added in the form of RotHC, which did a pretty terrible job and was so short it didn't matter.

 

You are making a huge assumption that most were playing solo content because group content was so "awful." The little group content that was in the game was decent enough when it was fixed. The truth of the matter is many came to SWTOR for story, and once the class story they wanted to play ended they had little reason to stay. A few flashpoints shortly after launch wasn't what many were interested in. KOTFE is the first real focus on story again since launch, and it took BioWare four years to get back to actually doing story.

 

Since then, the game has been slowly dying (F2P slowed the decline). Sure, some were content with BioWare just adding the occasional new wz, operation, or flashpoint. The truth is this MMO hasn't been competitive and BioWare has been struggling to strike a good balance of content appealing to the very diverse community this game has. Every expansion BioWare has made had its faults for different reasons. I don't agree with the sentiment KOTFE is the "worst" just because it didn't add an operation. It added content in virtually every other sector of the game and even revamped operations with new content.

 

What BioWare needs to figure out is how to provide more content every month and create better incentives for remaining a subscriber. Most of the subscriber rewards were pretty lackluster, so that's an area BioWare could use improvement in.

[gabigool]

Ironic considering you didn't link such a quote nor did you source it. Unless you actually back up your claim, I'm fairly certain you are taking creative liberties with what Dr. Ray Muzyka actually said.

 

Actually, I made this thread to get a sense of how folks actually felt about KOTET, good or bad. There are so many trolls on the forums it's hard to know what people actually think. I know you have an issue with me (don't really know why), but really remarks like these make it hard for me to take you seriously.

 

The entire point of KOTFE and KOTET is subscriber retention... RotHC and SoR had NO subscriber retention, which is why BioWare is trying to come up with mechanisms for creating incentives to elongate subscriber commitments.

 

Google: Muzyka + "Free to Play". Pick pretty much any article. You will see both founders, when justifying the value prop of a subscription title, specifically state it enables them to produce a higher volume and quality of content.

 

You cannot reasonably interpret anything they have ever stated - anywhere - as implying they envisioned anything remotely like the current state of this game. They seemingly had much higher hopes.

 

Again, though - wasn't my point. So please don't come back trying to split hairs.

 

As far as your other comment... I've simply pointed out multiple times, as have others, that you have a habit of making arguments using your opinions disguised as factual evidence.

[light_senshi]

I'm not. KOTFE was a horrible disaster for a dark side character (which is my main currently) and given that I expect KOTET to be the same way.....not interested.

[Aowin]

Google: Muzyka + "Free to Play". Pick pretty much any article. You will see both founders, when justifying the value prop of a subscription title, specifically state it enables them to produce a higher volume and quality of content.

 

You cannot reasonably interpret anything they have ever stated - anywhere - as implying they envisioned anything remotely like the current state of this game. They seemingly had much higher hopes.

 

Again, though - wasn't my point. So please don't come back trying to split hairs.

 

As far as your other comment... I've simply pointed out multiple times, as have others, that you have a habit of making arguments using your opinions disguised as factual evidence.

 

Lol where have I ever stated that KOTFE is what they "envisioned"? You really don't read. All I stated is that KOTFE was far closer to what the Doctors had in mind for expansions than RotHC or SoR. I never said it was absolutely, exactly how they envisioned content. Again, I already used ESO as an example much closer to what SWTOR's content likely would have been similar to. I really don't think you actually read my posts.

 

Not at all. You just simply don't like my stance and try to discredit me any chance you can. You don't have to agree with my points and I frankly don't care if you don't. The point of this thread was a simple question: Are folks looking forward to KOTET or not? Anything beyond that is merely intentions you fabricate in your own mind.

[AllisonLightning]

As far as subscriber retention, rewards aside- pre F2P the benefit of subbing was playing the game at all, or post F2P without massive restrictions. Providing free content in way of chapters is good and all, except for the part where they aren't providing anything other than normal gameplay as justification for subscription.

 

The original arguments were trying to justify the game's subscription and afterwards, a reason why the game couldn't release the envisioned content than take a little responsibility. I love this game, I really do (not so much KOTFE but nothing's perfect) but there's a little too much fantasy land- this game would need to be much more like a sandbox to sustain itself without a constant content stream, sub only, from the start to sustain subs between releases.

 

It's not and I'd rather they charge for expansions again, let me pay for KOTET and have it contain a full package where I feel like I'm in an open world(s) (rather than a railed, boxed instance) than the drip fed content and maybe a warzone and flashpoint. I think not charging for expansions is a critical mistake, depriving each successive expansion of the financial resources and it'd be a mistake, whether this game was sub only or a F2P/preferred/sub hybrid.

 

Note: ESO charges for expansions, you essentially rent them free as a sub perk but to keep them permanently when you aren't on the perk membership you need to buy them.

Edited August 28, 2016 by AllisonLightning

[Transcendent]

Note: ESO charges for expansions, you essentially rent them free as a sub perk but to keep them permanently when you aren't on the perk membership you need to buy them.

 

This is something that completely mystifies me. I fail to see, with all the updates the Cartel Market team put out, that they don't also release each chapter on the Cartel Market to purchase with CC. Even if it was 450CC per chapter, that would still provide an extra revenue stream outside of subscribers and the usual Cartel Market fluff.

 

If Bioware are giving the expansion for "free" to subscribers, surely they could also monetise non-subscribers interested in playing the "expansion", even if it means they move away from the one time purchase for a whole expansion.

[Aowin]

...

 

As I said, BioWare's monthly chapter update is not without its flaws. However, it's a good step towards adding regular content at a much more rapid pace. I believe it's something that BioWare can and will improve upon provided players give it a chance.

 

Honestly, I think the entire MMO genre, in general, could be a lot more sand box than theme park. Sand box games have far greater replayability due to being player-driven. Theme parks are entirely built on developers creating constant, which is why it's hard to ever sustain a theme park for long periods of time. If this game added more sand box features that could be great time sinks until more content was ready to be released, I think it would be much better off. BioWare only has to look at SWG as an example of a game that lasted for years just fine without one major expansion.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure BioWare made as much charging for expansions as you may believe. Most of the money BioWare generates from SWTOR is from the Cartel Market. After that, it's going to be subscribers, which is a constant, steady revenue source. Expansions are one and done. Sure, they might initially make more money off of charging for expansions, but the problem is RotHC and SoR had no longevity. Players would only subscribe for a month or two before burning through all the content and letting their subscription lapse.

 

This is a problem Blizzard has dealt with for years with WoW where folks will come back for an expansion but then leave a month or so afterwards. The idea behind KOTFE was to maintain subscribers for a longer period of time, yielding higher profit returns in the long run. It actually did work for the most part, but it's far from perfect.

 

The point is all of the expansions for ESO are free as long as you are a subscriber. That is how content would have worked for SWTOR had it remained a subscriber-only MMO. The fact you lose access if you become F2P is irrelevant. You only have to pay for the DLC content if you refuse to subscribe.

[Aowin]

...

 

The difference between ESO releasing the Dark Brotherhood or Imperial City on the Crown Store versus BioWare just releasing a chapter of KOTFE on the Cartel Market is one is complete and the other is not.

 

When you purchase the Dark Brotherhood DLC, you get the full experience uninterrupted.

 

Can you imagine the outcry from F2P members if they had to pay 450CC per chapter, especially when most of the latter chapters in KOTFE were filler? I don't think that would go over well. What BioWare has done is after KOTFE was finally concluded they made the entirety of KOTFE purchasable on the website for $19.99.

[CKNORTH]

This is something that completely mystifies me. I fail to see, with all the updates the Cartel Market team put out, that they don't also release each chapter on the Cartel Market to purchase with CC. Even if it was 450CC per chapter, that would still provide an extra revenue stream outside of subscribers and the usual Cartel Market fluff.

 

If Bioware are giving the expansion for "free" to subscribers, surely they could also monetise non-subscribers interested in playing the "expansion", even if it means they move away from the one time purchase for a whole expansion.

 

The expansions are available for $$ either from the main sight for a previous expac, or from Origin with a few perks, I bought the KOTFE expac prior to them releasing it on their main sight through origin. It's different than the one the currently offer. Mine came with a Rancor pet, plus 1050cc on top of the extra subscription time that was for 60 days when you bought the delux version. It was also suppose to come with a free level 60 but I guess being subscribed I never received it a second time. One thing to note is that I will be looking for a delux version of KoTET about a month after release to see what they will offer on Origin for perks. But you don't need a sub to get the delux version off origin, but if you do happen to buy it as a free or Preferred status player they basically give you the 60 days of subscription time.

 

Don't worry my friend they do offer the expansions, it is just no one bothers to look on origin under their Star Wars section....

Edited August 28, 2016 by CKNORTH

[Transcendent]

Don't worry my friend they do offer the expansions, it is just no one bothers to look on origin under their Star Wars section....

 

I'd never pay them money for it on Origin like that, because they don't actually give you the level 60 character token if you've already subscribed. Plus on the website? http://www.swtor.com/buy. Well I'm not American, so I don't do $, perhaps they should try putting up the prices related to country of origin.

 

Marketing at it's finest. I wonder how many sales they lose because of the little things like the above.

[CKNORTH]

I'd never pay them money for it on Origin like that, because they don't actually give you the level 60 character token if you've already subscribed. Plus on the website? http://www.swtor.com/buy. Well I'm not American, so I don't do $, perhaps they should try putting up the prices related to country of origin.

 

Marketing at it's finest. I wonder how many sales they lose because of the little things like the above.

 

Heh, I mostly just wanted the ranccor pet, and the peice of mind should I ever go preferred that I know for sure I own the expansion. I don't think that particular ranccor pet is available anymore as far as I know...

[Aowin]

Heh, I mostly just wanted the ranccor pet, and the peice of mind should I ever go preferred that I know for sure I own the expansion. I don't think that particular ranccor pet is available anymore as far as I know...

 

All you had to do was subscribe for a month right now and you'd have the expansion... It's permanent access once you subscribe at that time, unlike ESO. You would have only paid $15.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Aowin

[AllisonLightning]

All you had to do was subscribe for a month right now and you'd have the expansion... It's permanent access once you subscribe at that time, unlike ESO. You would have only paid $15.

 

Except their system doesn't make you into a heavily penalized player for unsubbing. You've B2P and any bonuses are bonuses, not an XP penalty or anything like that. Subbing just skips the need to buy the expansions outright which you can do, have access and get geared properly for your endgame level and play all the endgame content you want. I'm not eager to play ESO but they offer much better value for money and their subs as an FYI are in my native currency... the founder on a local message board so fed up by the sum of KOTFE he's cancelled his Day One sub, he's jumping across to there because the base B2P experience is so much better than Preferred.

[Aowin]

...

 

As you just indicated, ESO is a "Buy to Play" MMO. It operates under a completely different set of rules from a "Free to Play" MMO, like SWTOR.

 

"Buy to Play" means everybody has to buy the base game, then everyone is afforded the whole experience (beyond some perks like EXP boost and expansion access). In F2P, you don't have to buy the base game. It's "free," but you have limited access to the game as a result.

 

I think SWTOR probably should have been B2P instead of F2P myself, but EA clearly wanted to expand the potential revenue net as wide as possible. There is no excuse to at least try SWTOR since you don't pay a dime. You have to pay the cost of the base game to play ESO.

 

It's not as if B2P is a necessarily winning model. GW2 was B2P and that game just recently went F2P due to its declining player base. I just happen to think ESO does a great job providing a great value for what it offers. Not to mention, ESO is also on consoles expanding its net of players far more than most MMOs. I played ESO at launch and the value you get really is a subscriber MMO experience. Unfortunately ZOS never supported AvA and the PvP community left the game, including myself.

Edited August 28, 2016 by Aowin

[AllisonLightning]

As you just indicated, ESO is a "Buy to Play" MMO. It operates under a completely different set of rules from a "Free to Play" MMO, like SWTOR.

 

"Buy to Play" means everybody has to buy the base game, then everyone is afforded the whole experience (beyond some perks like EXP boost and expansion access). In F2P, you don't have to buy the base game. It's "free," but you have limited access to the game as a result.

 

I think SWTOR probably should have been B2P instead of F2P myself, but EA clearly wanted to expand the potential revenue net as wide as possible. There is no excuse to at least try SWTOR since you don't pay a dime. You have to pay the cost of the base game to play ESO.

 

It's not as if B2P is a necessarily winning model. GW2 was B2P and that game just recently went F2P due to its declining player base. I just happen to think ESO does a great job providing a great value for what it offers. I played ESO at launch and the value you get really is a subscriber MMO experience. Unfortunately ZOS never supported AvA and the PvP community left the game, including myself.

 

I think B2P is fine- except there's purposefully not the option here. GW2's expansion isn't F2P, you need to buy that in order to get back to the complete B2P experience. The excuse not to try SWTOR involves the download and reputation this game has- I thought about it for years. No, my refrain was the whole no KOTOR III, not the F2P system but people don't just try a game out, especially an MMO (with their download sizes) without being certain they want to play them. They aren't your baby sized freebies on Steam.

 

I'm just saying, not type versus type but The Elder Scrolls Online's sub/expansion deal works out fairer than this game. You can buy the expansions and play without restrictions, and the initial box price of the game vanishes after a few months where a sub is offered to give you presents and free access perks than simply a base, unrestricted experience. Yes, ESO is B2P but their subs are the much better deal and are about perks rather than restriction removal and they don't offer free expansions for keeps because it's actually detrimental allowing people to sub and get all expansions. Instead, the sub perk is a sustainable rental and if you want the expansions for keeps, you pay like everyone else.

[Andryah]

This is something that completely mystifies me. I fail to see, with all the updates the Cartel Market team put out, that they don't also release each chapter on the Cartel Market to purchase with CC. Even if it was 450CC per chapter, that would still provide an extra revenue stream outside of subscribers and the usual Cartel Market fluff.

 

If Bioware are giving the expansion for "free" to subscribers, surely they could also monetise non-subscribers interested in playing the "expansion", even if it means they move away from the one time purchase for a whole expansion.

 

I disagree. What they did, in today's largely non-sub MMO market, is to provide actual incentive to encourage players to sub and stay subbed longer. Won't work on everyone, and it won't get an angry player to keep subbing, but for players that actually enjoy the game... it's actually a pretty good model to follow IMO.

[Aowin]

...

 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/play-for-free-today/

 

"Today we’re happy to announce that the Guild Wars 2 core game is available for everyone to play for free."

 

GW2 was B2P. It's F2P now.

 

It's a simple answer, honestly. EA felt SWTOR could be more profitable as a F2P game than a B2P game. Whether that was accurate or not is impossible to know. What we have is what we get.

 

It's also worth noting ESO was built to cater towards console gamers. ZOS made the game as similar to Skyrim as they possibly could. If you had followed that game since Alpha, originally it was much more like a traditional MMO. The combat was very much even like WoW's combat. That was all changed due to how successful Skyrim was and ZOS wanted to bring ESO to consoles.

 

The game was built for B2P to accommodate the console audience and I think ZOS did a great job with ESO. Again, it's easier for ESO to be B2P because it's also on consoles. GW2 was B2P and it could not sustain the model being only on PC. SWTOR, obviously, is a PC-only MMO. It doesn't have the luxuries to expand to a much larger audience on consoles, even though plenty of console gamers would love to play SWTOR.

[Transcendent]

SWTOR, obviously, is a PC-only MMO. It doesn't have the luxuries to expand to a much larger audience on consoles, even though plenty of console gamers would love to play SWTOR.

 

B2P / F2P / Subscription aside, SWTOR would have to have a drastically changed combat system / control system to even remotely work on consoles. Consoles have more than likely got enough power to run SWTOR now, just the control system isn't as "refined" as something like Diablo 3 that does work on consoles due to the nature of the combat system.

 

If anything, it would require some serious trimming to abilities to accommodate consoles. I'm not sure that would work very well, or even be received very well by the community. I think we've seen quite enough of the "dumbing down" of the game experience with 4.0.

[Aowin]

B2P / F2P / Subscription aside, SWTOR would have to have a drastically changed combat system / control system to even remotely work on consoles. Consoles have more than likely got enough power to run SWTOR now, just the control system isn't as "refined" as something like Diablo 3 that does work on consoles due to the nature of the combat system.

 

If anything, it would require some serious trimming to abilities to accommodate consoles. I'm not sure that would work very well, or even be received very well by the community. I think we've seen quite enough of the "dumbing down" of the game experience with 4.0.

 

The problem is too many skills and the fact that combat is built around a mouse and keyboard. Sure, you could just require a mouse and keyboard via USB port for consoles, but that would be a barrier to many. This is the same reason WoW never made it to consoles even though Blizzard tried.

 

Skills would have to be trimmed down to eight like Guild Wars or six like Elder Scrolls Online. BioWare would also likely have to shift to an action-oriented, twitch-based combat similar to ESO, Tera, and GW2. A lot of these changes would likely need to result in overhauls (if not a replacement) of HeroEngine, which BioWare is not going to do.

 

SWTOR was never envisioned for consoles and BioWare certainly isn't going to make an effort to make it work on those platforms. Maybe BioWare will consider that with Mass Effect Online or Dragon Age Online?

[BrotherJohn]

Absolutely not looking forward to KOTET.

 

I realize there are some that love the current chapter story but it is some of the worst sw story telling I have ever had the not so much pleasure of watching and reading.

 

Couple that with a current development team that would rather sell re skinned junk on the precious cm.

[Ippotamus]

How many are looking forward to KOTET?

 

As a game?

Not in the slightest. The dumbed down game play and one story fits all/ride the rail approach has pretty much ended any interest in continuing the grand adventure or my subscription. While not the greatest, the adventure really ended with SoR for me. I just had to play KOTFE to find out. that was the case. SWTOR and KOTFE are two different games at this point. One, for all of its flaws, I lived and loved for 5 years ... the other lost me in one season.

 

Now as a video on youtube?

Sure I will watch KOTET one time on a particularly boring evening with nothing better to do.

[CorellianWannabe]

I disagree. What they did, in today's largely non-sub MMO market, is to provide actual incentive to encourage players to sub and stay subbed longer. Won't work on everyone, and it won't get an angry player to keep subbing, but for players that actually enjoy the game... it's actually a pretty good model to follow IMO.

 

How so? There is no reason to subscribe more often than every few months assuming one can wait for the latest 'chapter'. That is unless EA plans to continue the carrot model of 'keep subscribed for a special snowflake reward'.

 

What companion will be next- want to see Mako again? Better subscribe! Lacey Chabert isn't cheap, you know! Don't even ask about Jaesa unless enough of you guarantee a year's commitment!

Edited August 29, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[Aowin]

...

 

Jokes aside, I think BioWare will be looking to improve subscriber rewards in order to bolster subscriber retention. That is ultimately BioWare's goal: Maintain subscribers for longer periods of time. Whether that means offering more exclusive companions or more bonus chapters, I'm not sure how BioWare will tackle this obstacle. I'm curious to see what BioWare does as it's confirmed subscriber rewards are definitely coming back.

[Savej]

Unless he actually has a source for this alleged claim by BioWare, I'm going to consider it pure speculation. BioWare isn't trying to intentionally ruin the game for players. BioWare is trying to make it better. Of course, not everybody agrees exactly on what "better" is.

 

I was referring to a reddit comment by a person who went to the recent Cantina and spoke with the devs. The specific comment in question was later edited out of the poster's summary notes. But looking at previous expacs that have brought us the end of ranked 8s, "no more class stories or companion interractions", PVP bolster (huge buggy mess that took a year to work most of the kinks out), PVE bolster on planets, lost/reworked companions and lost companion customization options, the list goes on - I do not doubt that there will be something taken away from us in KOTET. Whether it's something many of us care about remains to be seen, but BW seems neurotic about punishing some players in their xpacs for the sake of someone's "vision" and/or a diminishing budget.

[Aowin]

I was referring to a reddit comment by a person who went to the recent Cantina and spoke with the devs. The specific comment in question was later edited out of the poster's summary notes. But looking at previous expacs that have brought us the end of ranked 8s, "no more class stories or companion interractions", PVP bolster (huge buggy mess that took a year to work most of the kinks out), PVE bolster on planets, lost/reworked companions and lost companion customization options, the list goes on - I do not doubt that there will be something taken away from us in KOTET. Whether it's something many of us care about remains to be seen, but BW seems neurotic about punishing some players in their xpacs for the sake of someone's "vision" and/or a diminishing budget.

 

Companions have been broken and underpowered since launch. Much of the content in the early game was pointless and deserted. BioWare revitalized starter worlds while getting rid of the ridiculous gear grind for companions and built their stats purely on presence and influence. I see this as quality changes rather than a removal of systems. The only design decision I did not agree with from BioWare was taking out Ilum World PvP. To this day I think that was a major mistake. I'm not really concerned about what KOTET will "remove" next as I'm sure it will be blown out of proportion.