OPs = OP

[VixenRawR]

]ops are op its just they have a stun lock you never get out even if there dps is low they stile kill you

Ops tend to focus targets and try to 1 v 1 so you may feel their cc directly specifically at you as they are up in your face about it. But don't be alarmed Only one stun can actually hold you for 4 seconds while taking damage. The rest will drop when you take damage.

 

also there very hard to kill good damage reduction good healing cloak very fast movement

Yes they can roll twice every 10 seconds and a conceal op will absorb damage up on each roll. If you are channeling blazing bolts an op will roll. Sometimes you can use this to force them to roll allowing you to focus other attacks you have saved up prior to the roll. Use them after the roll. Remember its 10 seconds, so dont pop net or cc or heatseeker during a roll, this will cripple you.

 

thats why so many players play them atm

It can be argued a lot of people play most classes but in Warzones I tend to see more juggs, and sorcs than operatives by a large margin.

 

same as jugg a lvl 61 just kill 3 players in a row we try to lower his health but ea time his health was back to full some times we cant even damage him and his damage was insane high

 

Juggs have high burst, they are a good dps class and have a lot of defensive cooldowns. The reason his health can go to full is Enraged Defense. It has 12 stacks and each one can heal for quite a bit. It can start being used even while stunned below 70% health. Also Endure pain is a 30% health increase and a lot of juggs will pop that along with their warzone medpack at the same time and will heal them most the way. Endure pain is just a hp increase for a short period and will drop after 10 seconds (20 if immortal).

 

Saber reflect last 3 seconds and can not only prevent damage from ranged attacks, but force and tech attacks. (Any ability that will show yellow numbers in combat). With a utility it can last 5 seconds. It can devastate heavy hitters, especially a merc who uses blazing bolts and heatseeker and railshot, which if timed correctly could be completely absorbed by a saber reflect. You as a merc know how powerful that combo is, now reflected back at you? Ouch. You see reflect, cancel that blazing bolts, and consider using a cc, knockback, or self heal in the meantime to prevent the jugg from possibly killing you in the process.

 

 

i play merc dps i must do good damage but how you kill some1 that can bring his health back to full ore ignore the damage we do to him

 

Enraged Defense. 12 stacks will heal each time it takes damage. Used in a group is almost certain to use all 12 stacks and heal the jugg. Stuck 1 v 1 as a merc against this beast. Look for the charges appear, or if you suddenly see a spike in heals while attacking stop. Use concussion missile on him. (Granted if you can try to get them to use their cc breaker in advance this helps). That will last 8 seconds and you can use that time to heal up a bit since you are a merc. Then when that wears off just dance about a lil until you see the charges drop. He just wasted a cooldown with no benefit. That is huge on a jugg. He will be at low life still. Granted he can still use endure pain and a warzone medpack but he lost out on an extra life. Meanwhile you are healed up more. If he doesnt do this, just LoS him and pop h/o and run around a bit casting kolto shots at yourself and emergency scan and hope he cant stay on you.

 

my healing do so 5k its crap compare to a jugg

even if my health drop to a point that my skill pop up and heal me back but even that is so very low that it dont matter to the damage he give me

 

I agree, mercs self heals aren't top notch so you need to use LoS, knockback, stuns to keep him at bay while you heal. Also save net. Dont use during ED obviously the ticks will heal him. After he uses ED you are golden. He cant leap and he will crawl and take dmg. Use this time to burst or heal up he may even have saber reflect up again or hasn't used it and may attempted that to absorb dmg. If he does even better to heal. Now you wasted that ability too. Net is your golden ticket against Juggs and any melee class if used right.

 

just wanna say that some classes are a bit over powered

 

Mercs are just exceptionally squishy. Kolto overloads wasn't good at lvl 50 and its not good now. Juggs are a pain to 1 v 1 but it is possible on a merc it just takes time waiting out cooldowns, kiting, los, and healing even with the tiny heals you have. With a jugg its all about timing but in 1 v 1 it can almost get predictable. In a fight expect endure pain and saber reflect to be used twice. If its not going well, even ED can be back up in 1 min 30 seconds with utility.

[Ruhun]

 

However attacking in 1 v 1...equally skilled against their oponent, an operative may be victorious but that comes at a price, time. Low birst, 2 gcds with roll, 2 gcds with inetial probes and more if you continue to keep them up. Ops can spend a lot of time avoiding damage while they work on killing someone. That's great but any sort of communication and teamwork will result and a friend coming and ensuring the operative dies, or loses the node.

 

An Op defending or watching someone on his way to a node, or pretty much any 1v1 situation against a non-stealth class an Op wins 9 times out of 10.

Ops are the reason why every dueling event people host has a separate bracket for stealth classes.

 

If the Op has 2+ people chasing it then it just flashbangs to stun the group then stealths out to pick them off separately at it's leisure.

 

Two Ops can be devastating, to the point of spawn camping people at Voidstar. Which I've seen both on my team and against them.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Ruhun

[Tsetso]

An Op defending or watching someone on his way to a node, or pretty much any 1v1 situation against a non-stealth class an Op wins 9 times out of 10.

Ops are the reason why every dueling event people host has a separate bracket for stealth classes.

 

Yes and WZ and Arenas aren't 1v1. I won't even open on you if i'm guarding a node and you try to cap it - i'd just sap you and call in ops chat

[Ruhun]

Yes and WZ and Arenas aren't 1v1. I won't even open on you if i'm guarding a node and you try to cap it - i'd just sap you and call in ops chat

 

Tell that to Ops with 8 - 12 solo kills and any fool that attempts to cap his node.

Tell that to Ops who go into a match trolling for kills, and pick off some poor bastard on his way to help the node, locking him in place, laughing and rolling, while the other guy wastes his burst because the Op shrugged off the damage.

 

You may play objectives, but a lot of Ops go into WZs looking for 1v1s, because they know they will win that 1v1.

[AlrikFassbauer]

The whole issue is social inertia from launch when we literally globaled people and the infamous quote about gangs of ops stunlocking players making them unsub

 

But I still hear plenty of noise about operatives being stronger than they really are.

 

Personally, as having been stunlocked a million times, so to say, I believe that both things have something to do with one another :

 

Good Operatives meet BADs. In Unranked, even in lower levels, perhaps.

 

And that means, that people who don't play Operatives or even Scoundrels just don't know enough about them - and especially, how to beat them and how to escpe their often rumored "stunlock".

 

OF COURSE, a player who knows EVERY class, and especialkly players who know Operatives / Scoundrels very well WILL say that they are not op at all ! Why ? Because they KNOW it.

I suspect that the sheer disbelief and head-shaking of this kind of players comes from the Curse Of Knowledge thing. They are TOO WELL educated to even be able to imagine what goes on in the head of a Newbie - or a bad player - when they meet any good Scoundrel player. They just see the "stunlocxks", don't know ANY weaknesses, ANY ! and see that they just CANNOT do ANYTHING because of the Operatives' good control abilities, plus roll etc. ... They just don't know it.

 

And - this is my theory - that sticks. Like a Trauma. I'm sure that most of you don't even know what a "Trauma" actually is, in RL. Well, from that moment on, in which the Scoundrel wnt away, lauging ( that's part of the animations ! A superior player laughing over a Newbie ! ) while they see their chars lying on the ground, realizing their helplessness, and thinking "WFT ???" -

- well, from THAT moment on, early in their still learning phase, they believe that Scoundrels are op.

 

So, since this here is a discussion of good players among good players, there is nothing I could add than this : I believe that people believe Scoundrels are op, because of a series of traumatic moments in which they know NOTHING about that class.

 

This is of cource not understandable for those who KNOW.

 

A good player simply won't have a similar experience with a Scoundrel like a Newbie has, or a bad player, or outright a player who doesn't play the Scoundrel class.

Hence this discussion here.

 

 

Edit : And when I read snave's duelling event description, I think : "Aha !" Scoundrels and Opewratives got their own bracket, and limitation of their abilities. And people still say they aren't op in 1v1 ?

 

omg! how many times do we have to say this? an op cannot stun lock you and our damage is crap compared to any other spec in the game. we have 1 hard stun. period. you did not get stunlocked/killed by an op, so stop saying you did.

 

Fiddling with words. "No, I didn't kill him. I merely made a trap into which he fell and then died. I didn't kill him !"

Same with the words for stuns / mezzes / roots / etc. - a Newbie won't notice ANY difference - to any Newbie IT'S ALL THE SAME.

Making DIFFERENT words for these thzings ONLY helps the educated player who already knows everything. It's like saying that snails and slugs are not the same - which is right, but not to a child. Which only sees the same creature - once with a "house", and once without one. And then there are the Monoplacophora, too ...

Edited August 24, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Technohic]

Tell that to Ops with 8 - 12 solo kills and any fool that attempts to cap his node.

Tell that to Ops who go into a match trolling for kills, and pick off some poor bastard on his way to help the node, locking him in place, laughing and rolling, while the other guy wastes his burst because the Op shrugged off the damage.

 

You may play objectives, but a lot of Ops go into WZs looking for 1v1s, because they know they will win that 1v1.

 

Doesn't bother me. They can try for the 1 on 1 all they want.

 

I actually like to troll the ops on my sniper. Had one the other day (actually a scoundrel) try to take the off node from me. I didn't get into the 1v1. I leg shot him, then rolled. He used his cloak apparently wasting the evasion he must have specced for when cloaking so I counted 1-1 thousand and cover pulsed sending him flying. Just sat there looking at him as he came back so I used my stun then shived him and ran the other direction. Turned around and leg shot him again. It was funny because he then used the threat dump I am assuming that he had specced for the root breaker, right as 2 teammates showed up. It looked like he was surrendering right when we opened up on him.

 

Don't think it was a good scoundrel or a well built one based on what it looked like he was trying to do but it was still funny. I do that too them all the time as I know what frustrates me on my op. Of course; I probably wouldn't be trying to re-engage head on as soon as they get me once. At a complete disadvantage if you don't have the drop on a target as an op. The strength is dictating the conditions of the fight.

[Technohic]

Personally, as having been stunlocked a million times, so to say, I believe that both things have something to do with one another :

 

Good Operatives meet BADs. In Unranked, even in lower levels, perhaps.

 

And that means, that people who don't play Operatives or even Scoundrels just don't know enough about them - and especially, how to beat them and how to escpe their often rumored "stunlock".

 

OF COURSE, a player who knows EVERY class, and especialkly players who know Operatives / Scoundrels very well WILL say that they are not op at all ! Why ? Because they KNOW it.

I suspect that the sheer disbelief and head-shaking of this kind of players comes from the Curse Of Knowledge thing. They are TOO WELL educated to even be able to imagine what goes on in the head of a Newbie - or a bad player - when they meet any good Scoundrel player. They just see the "stunlocxks", don't know ANY weaknesses, ANY ! and see that they just CANNOT do ANYTHING because of the Operatives' good control abilities, plus roll etc. ... They just don't know it.

 

And - this is my theory - that sticks. Like a Trauma. I'm sure that most of you don't even know what a "Trauma" actually is, in RL. Well, from that moment on, in which the Scoundrel wnt away, lauging ( that's part of the animations ! A superior player laughing over a Newbie ! ) while they see their chars lying on the ground, realizing their helplessness, and thinking "WFT ???" -

- well, from THAT moment on, early in their still learning phase, they believe that Scoundrels are op.

 

So, since this here is a discussion of good players among good players, there is nothing I could add than this : I believe that people believe Scoundrels are op, because of a series of traumatic moments in which they know NOTHING about that class.

 

This is of cource not understandable for those who KNOW.

 

A good player simply won't have a similar experience with a Scoundrel like a Newbie has, or a bad player, or outright a player who doesn't play the Scoundrel class.

Hence this discussion here.

 

 

Edit : And when I read snave's duelling event description, I think : "Aha !" Scoundrels and Opewratives got their own bracket, and limitation of their abilities. And people still say they aren't op in 1v1 ?

 

 

 

Fiddling with words. "No, I didn't kill him. I merely made a trap into which he fell and then died. I didn't kill him !"

Same with the words for stuns / mezzes / roots / etc. - a Newbie won't notice ANY difference - to any Newbie IT'S ALL THE SAME.

Making DIFFERENT words for these thzings ONLY helps the educated player who already knows everything. It's like saying that snails and slugs are not the same - which is right, but not to a child. Which only sees the same creature - once with a "house", and once without one. And then there are the Monoplacophora, too ...

 

Alrik; this may be the smartest thing you have ever said; actually.

 

FWIW; I know operatives and scoundrels from playing them after a LOOOONNNNNG time ago when I was leveling my marauder and PvPing. I had one chose me as his target and marauder at the time, was the one class I could not figure out what to do. I had no KB to get them off me and I do not recall the class very well (on my to do list) but I remember not having much of a root to keep them off me. This was back when OPs were really, really dangerous. Just before the "Stun locking to death" nerf. The guy doing it would be on me as soon as I came out of spawn in voidstar every time, and then trash talked after the match. I know exactly what you are talking about. I chose to deal with it by learning the class.

 

Incidentally; maras are my target to learn again. I used to troll them a bit on my sniper and just play keep away while I focus on a healer or whatever else, but they can melt me too quick to not try to finish them off.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Technohic

[sumquy]

Personally, as having been stunlocked a million times, so to say, I believe that both things have something to do with one another :

 

Good Operatives meet BADs. In Unranked, even in lower levels, perhaps.

 

And that means, that people who don't play Operatives or even Scoundrels just don't know enough about them - and especially, how to beat them and how to escpe their often rumored "stunlock".

 

OF COURSE, a player who knows EVERY class, and especialkly players who know Operatives / Scoundrels very well WILL say that they are not op at all ! Why ? Because they KNOW it.

I suspect that the sheer disbelief and head-shaking of this kind of players comes from the Curse Of Knowledge thing. They are TOO WELL educated to even be able to imagine what goes on in the head of a Newbie - or a bad player - when they meet any good Scoundrel player. They just see the "stunlocxks", don't know ANY weaknesses, ANY ! and see that they just CANNOT do ANYTHING because of the Operatives' good control abilities, plus roll etc. ... They just don't know it.

 

And - this is my theory - that sticks. Like a Trauma. I'm sure that most of you don't even know what a "Trauma" actually is, in RL. Well, from that moment on, in which the Scoundrel wnt away, lauging ( that's part of the animations ! A superior player laughing over a Newbie ! ) while they see their chars lying on the ground, realizing their helplessness, and thinking "WFT ???" -

- well, from THAT moment on, early in their still learning phase, they believe that Scoundrels are op.

 

So, since this here is a discussion of good players among good players, there is nothing I could add than this : I believe that people believe Scoundrels are op, because of a series of traumatic moments in which they know NOTHING about that class.

 

This is of cource not understandable for those who KNOW.

 

A good player simply won't have a similar experience with a Scoundrel like a Newbie has, or a bad player, or outright a player who doesn't play the Scoundrel class.

Hence this discussion here.

 

 

Edit : And when I read snave's duelling event description, I think : "Aha !" Scoundrels and Opewratives got their own bracket, and limitation of their abilities. And people still say they aren't op in 1v1 ?

 

 

 

Fiddling with words. "No, I didn't kill him. I merely made a trap into which he fell and then died. I didn't kill him !"

Same with the words for stuns / mezzes / roots / etc. - a Newbie won't notice ANY difference - to any Newbie IT'S ALL THE SAME.

Making DIFFERENT words for these thzings ONLY helps the educated player who already knows everything. It's like saying that snails and slugs are not the same - which is right, but not to a child. Which only sees the same creature - once with a "house", and once without one. And then there are the Monoplacophora, too ...

 

even trying to sound reasonable, you still feed into the myth. ops cannot stun lock people. we have 1 hard stun that lasts 4 seconds, and i will be lucky if i take 1/3 of your health during that time. ops just don't do enough damage to kill anybody during our stun. over and over i hear the same complaints from people who don't understand the class, claiming they couldn't do anything, while an op burst them down. you're flat out lying and need to stop saying it. ops rely entirely, on our ability to avoid and mitigate damage in order to be effective. most of our mitigation is on the global cooldown, and cannot be used at the same time as an attack, making our dps output even worse. if an op kills you, it is because he has been working at it for 30 seconds, not because they are op.

[Technohic]

even trying to sound reasonable, you still feed into the myth. ops cannot stun lock people. we have 1 hard stun that lasts 4 seconds, and i will be lucky if i take 1/3 of your health during that time. ops just don't do enough damage to kill anybody during our stun. over and over i hear the same complaints from people who don't understand the class, claiming they couldn't do anything, while an op burst them down. you're flat out lying and need to stop saying it. ops rely entirely, on our ability to avoid and mitigate damage in order to be effective. most of our mitigation is on the global cooldown, and cannot be used at the same time as an attack, making our dps output even worse. if an op kills you, it is because he has been working at it for 30 seconds, not because they are op.

 

I thought he was saying they just feel like that is the case due to panicking and having been "traumatized" from being killed before.

 

The aftershocks of the old face plant lives on.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I thought he was saying they just feel like that is the case due to panicking and having been "traumatized" from being killed before.

 

The aftershocks of the old face plant lives on.

 

Exactly this.

 

over and over i hear the same complaints from people who don't understand the class, claiming they couldn't do anything,

 

The points in bold printing are imho related to one another.

You don't believe it, because you know Operatives too well.

You don't know anymore what a Newbie might think. A COMPLETE Newbie, even.

 

And yes, as I often say : It's not 1 Scoundrel stunlocking - or 1 Shaow - it's several of them. Worst, if they are there in pairs. That's totally legit, but even more traumatising for a Newbie whoi doesn't even have all of his classes' abilities.

Edited August 24, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[VixenRawR]

Alrik; this may be the smartest thing you have ever said; actually.

 

FWIW; I know operatives and scoundrels from playing them after a LOOOONNNNNG time ago when I was leveling my marauder and PvPing. I had one chose me as his target and marauder at the time, was the one class I could not figure out what to do. I had no KB to get them off me and I do not recall the class very well (on my to do list) but I remember not having much of a root to keep them off me. This was back when OPs were really, really dangerous. Just before the "Stun locking to death" nerf. The guy doing it would be on me as soon as I came out of spawn in voidstar every time, and then trash talked after the match. I know exactly what you are talking about. I chose to deal with it by learning the class.

 

Incidentally; maras are my target to learn again. I used to troll them a bit on my sniper and just play keep away while I focus on a healer or whatever else, but they can melt me too quick to not try to finish them off.

 

People underestimate a marauder. I give it one of the hardest classes to master in the game, but once you understand how it works, you don't die often. Yes with no self heals you will die w.o a healer so going through a warzone with no deaths is not very common unless its a steamroll. Marauders are imo potentially one of the most dangerous classes in team based warzone. I hate nothing more than a marauder up in my face if it is being healed its an endless assault. Predation is amazing and if you have 2 marauders on you I cannot think of a more annoying combination. I would rather have 2 ops trying to gank me or 2 sorcs.

 

Marauders have amazing burst and cooldowns. They aren't heal to full, or anything but using them right you can literally walk away from a fight with barey any health loss. Obfuscate is extremely devastating and I am surprised when fighting a marauder over and over and it never uses it especially when it can easily counter my attacks. If I heal I love having a good marauder on my team, they are a blast to heal and they will make people flee. =)

[sumquy]

I thought he was saying they just feel like that is the case due to panicking and having been "traumatized" from being killed before.

 

The aftershocks of the old face plant lives on.

 

ya i got that part, and he is exactly right as far as he goes with it. that is actually a huge part of being an op. if i can panic my target he is as good as dead. that is not a problem with the op class, though. i will be the first to say that ops have a great deal of potential in pvp, but it is gated behind a high skill floor. ops are exactly where all classes should be, i.e. high skill level gets good performance, while bads get wrecked. the part that blows my mind the most is how many people seem to be completely oblivious to what we can and can't do. how many insist on claiming we have these abilities and capabilities that we don't.

[AlrikFassbauer]

the part that blows my mind the most is how many people seem to be completely oblivious to what we can and can't do. how many insist on claiming we have these abilities and capabilities that we don't.

 

Well, 2 Scoundrels can do a lot ore than 1. The sheer power a Newbie observes coming from two of them is so much higher than the power coming from just 1.

 

I do remember how I felt when I was getting "stunlocked" by Operative and Assassin, I think, or at least it was 2 stealth classes. That was long ago, but I still remember one thing : In the moment of panic, you just lose the ability to react cool and logical. What you SEE is - or can be - like an illusion, I guess - and the illusion consists of "more power" than 1 Operatiove or Assassin actually has.

Yes, a complete Newbie is even able to mix the abilities of both classes of being "stunlocked" by 2 different stealth classes at one time !

 

And I alrewady wrote that in the past as well : We need to educate people more. Like, writing into the chat window what an Opertive can do and what not. Do not wait for comments. Someone will listen. Even without saying anything.

 

Knowledge is the best weapon against superstition.

[VixenRawR]

An Op defending or watching someone on his way to a node, or pretty much any 1v1 situation against a non-stealth class an Op wins 9 times out of 10.

Ops are the reason why every dueling event people host has a separate bracket for stealth classes.

 

If the Op has 2+ people chasing it then it just flashbangs to stun the group then stealths out to pick them off separately at it's leisure.

 

Two Ops can be devastating, to the point of spawn camping people at Voidstar. Which I've seen both on my team and against them.

 

1. Yes an op can win most 1 v 1, that's already been put to the test. It's the time that they do it that people seem to not understand. No op is stun locking with 1 hard stun and killing you. It is not possible. Why against non stealth? I find sins to be one of the more easier classes when facing on an operative. Deflection is pointless and shroud I can roll or pop my probes until its gone, or just spam rifle shot or any white dmg I have. (Not much). But even so an op win in 1 v 1 doesn't come quick with low burst and being melee itself means ranged classes that know how to kite can keep an op at bay longer. (The point is an op can hold a node but they cannot take a node anytime soon, not before help arrives. The only way is a large skill gap or the person is literally out of every single dcd.

 

2. Flash bang has limited range and 2 people chasing it is extremely subjective to abilities, and location. A mara and a merc will probably not be standing next to each other when chasing an op. First off a merc will probably already be doing dmg, and the mara will have used leap leaving most likely the mara stunned. And stealth out to pick who off? I doubt in 8 seconds you can kill someone especially since 2 v 1 they most likely have you on the run and with low burst an operative probably doesn't have any of them below 50% yet and even if they do they have cooldowns to pop.

 

3. Any class spawn camping can be devastating you know why? Anyone that has spawned is because they died. They obviously attempted to prevent their death meaning all cooldowns are now gone. This means any gank by two players will be a slaughter. With no back up, that person will die fast. Even with cooldowns its still a 1 v 2 and you will die without help. Yes 2 ops can slip in through a crack and yes two ops can use 2 separate hard stuns to keep you cc'd for 8 seconds and probably finish you off fast. Yet 2 mercs, 2 pts, 2 maras, 2 juggs also have this exact chance and can probably do it faster.

 

Sorry if I sound a bit rude at all, don't mean to but I can come across that way.

Edited August 24, 2016 by VixenRawR

[Saikochoro]

I will add my 2 credits:

 

Stun-lock: operatives CANNOT stun-lock anyone. Maybe...MAYBE....if it was a sorc with negative expertise they could kill someone in a couple globals. The ONLY class that has the potential to stun-lock and kill someone in the time of the stuns is AP pt. They have to have a fully proc'd energy burst, already have thrown thermal detonator, have shoulder cannon ready, and crit on everything while doing electro dart and carbonize back to back. They are the only ones with the damage and hard stuns necessary to stun-lock someone and they'd most likely have to take the utility to increase the duration of the stuns. But even this should not really ever happen, because you break the second cc and pop a cooldown. Sure they may still kill you , but that is no longer a stun-lock. No crippling slice is not a stun. You can still heal, pop a defensive cooldown, use predations/force speed/HO/obliterate/countermeasures/etc to get out of the root. No sleep dart and flashbang are not stuns. They are MEZZES and will break on damage. Operatives have 1 hard stun and not enough damage to kill you in the timeframe of the stun. So no....operatives are not stun-locking anyone. Learn resolve. Stop thinking that MEZZES are stuns and roots are stuns. You aren't a training dummy.

 

Infinite Globals: no an operative cannot simultaneously roll, heal, and damage at the same time. The only way they can do this is if they have corrosive dart ticking someone and they have probes on while rolling. Probes are not going to heal them to full (they will gain 3k health in the rolls) and the dart won't kill anyone. The thing MANY people do not understand is that everything an operative does (that is complained about) costs a global cooldown. Operative healing to full? Well they are using globals to pop kolto probes. No kolto probes are not out healing damage. They won't even out heal madness dots. To get any sort of beneficial combat healing you have to spam probes to bypass the ticking timer, which costs more globals during which you aren't rolling or damaging. You need to mitigate burst or run away? Well then you are rolling. Guess what. Each roll costs a global cooldown. You aren't hitting your kolto bind while rolling and you aren't damaging anyone while rolling. You actually want to kill someone? Well that takes damage and cc. Guess what each of those costs a global that you won't be using on roll or probes. Probes will help some during the fight if they are already on, but like I said before they won't even out heal madness dots. So let's get rid of the myth that operatives can survive multiple enemies, whilst simultaneously stunning them and killing them, while healing to full. It's just not happening. They are either doing damage with minimal healing, spamming kolto probes and running, or rolling and doing nothing. They cannot have their survivability and damage at the same time. It's one or the other.

 

Unlimited CC: ops have some good effective CC yes, but they do not have the most or the best cc. Sins have better cc. Powertechs and tank specs have more hard stuns. Many classes have more range to their hard stun. Ops do have the shortest cooldown on their debilitate, but they still don't have the best cc. They have good CC, but stop exaggerating. Go to the stun-locking section above.

 

Anyway, op haters will deny all of this so it's probably pointless. But people should understand the above FACTS. Ops are good, but the above myths need to be clarified.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Saikochoro

[Kaedusz]

There is no stunlocking to death and globaling in this game anymore. For a long time now. Even a merc with lucky crits on everything will only take around half your hp bar.

 

Op 1v1 damage does not lag behind other classes though. A few people say that ops damage suck. Lol what? No it doesn't. You have to dance around, which means you are not there dpsing, If you are, the damage isn't bad.

 

Compared to the other stealth class- sins, the damage is better or the same. But with more survavability.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Saikochoro]

Two Ops can be devastating, to the point of spawn camping people at Voidstar. Which I've seen both on my team and against them.

 

Ops aren't the only ones that can be devastating enough to spawn camp. Sins can as well. Marauders definitely can. Juggs can. Sorcs can. Mercs really can. Powertechs can. Snipers can too. And yes so can ops.

 

I have gotten bored and been a douche in several warzones where I decided to go ahead and camp. Usually to try to make a sorc or an operative rage quit. I'd say I have the most fun camping with another marauder or Merc as the enemy lasts all of a couple seconds whether they see us or not. Any class when stacked with another of the same class can be truly devastating. Not just ops.

 

P.S. Depending on which server you are on it might have been me spawn camping your team if you had a particularly annoying operative or sorc on your team or anyone that trash talked in /say or /gen.

[VixenRawR]

I will add my 2 credits:

 

Stun-lock: operatives CANNOT stun-lock anyone. Maybe...MAYBE....if it was a sorc with negative expertise they could kill someone in a couple globals. The ONLY class that has the potential to stun-lock and kill someone in the time of the stuns. They have to have a fully proc'd energy burst, already have thrown thermal detonator, have shoulder cannon ready, and crit on everything while doing electro dart and carbonize back to back. They are the only ones with the damage and hard stuns necessary to stun-lock someone and they'd most likely have to take the utility to increase the duration of the stuns. But even this should not really ever happen, because you break the second cc and pop a cooldown. Sure they may still kill you , but that is no longer a stun-lock. No crippling slice is not a stun. You can still heal, pop a defensive cooldown, use predations/force speed/HO/obliterate/countermeasures/etc to get out of the root. No sleep dart and flashbang are not stuns. They are MEZZES and will break on damage. Operatives have 1 hard stun and not enough damage to kill you in the timeframe of the stun. So no....operatives are not stun-locking anyone. Learn resolve. Stop thinking that MEZZES are stuns and roots are stuns. You aren't a training dummy.

 

Infinite Globals: no an operative cannot simultaneously roll, heal, and damage at the same time. The only way they can do this is if they have corrosive dart ticking someone and they have probes on while rolling. Probes are not going to heal them to full (they will gain 3k health in the rolls) and the dart won't kill anyone. The thing MANY people do not understand is that everything an operative does (that is complained about) costs a global cooldown. Operative healing to full? Well they are using globals to pop kolto probes. No kolto probes are not out healing damage. They won't even out heal madness dots. To get any sort of beneficial combat healing you have to spam probes to bypass the ticking timer, which costs more globals during which you aren't rolling or damaging. You need to mitigate burst or run away? Well then you are rolling. Guess what. Each roll costs a global cooldown. You aren't hitting your kolto bind while rolling and you aren't damaging anyone while rolling. You actually want to kill someone? Well that takes damage and cc. Guess what each of those costs a global that you won't be using on roll or probes. Probes will help some during the fight if they are already on, but like I said before they won't even out heal madness dots. So let's get rid of the myth that operatives can survive multiple enemies, whilst simultaneously stunning them and killing them, while healing to full. It's just not happening. They are either doing damage with minimal healing, spamming kolto probes and running, or rolling and doing nothing. They cannot have their survivability and damage at the same time. It's one or the other.

 

Unlimited CC: ops have some good effective CC yes, but they do not have the most or the best cc. Sins have better cc. Powertechs and tank specs have more hard stuns. Many classes have more range to their hard stun. Ops do have the shortest cooldown on their debilitate, but they still don't have the best cc. They have good CC, but stop exaggerating. Go to the stun-locking section above.

 

Anyway, op haters will deny all of this so it's probably pointless. But people should understand the above FACTS. Ops are good, but the above myths need to be clarified.

 

Exactly. The amount of cooldowns an operative would need to use to try and survive alone has already tipped the balance. Help has arrived, your node has been lost, whatever it is an operative cannot do it all. You ever seen someone spam click a node when your entire team is there and you think, "Wow what is this idiot doing?". I have done it to literally control the enemy team because they will stop running and make sure to stop me from capping which allows other dps to quickly pick them off. Granted if aoes and knockbacks are flying all over it is pointless. But I have sometimes done this in the right situations to prevent an operative from rolling while my team kills them. In fact sometimes I just cap it and no one stops me when there was plenty of opportunity. It's survive, or stop cap.

 

If you really think about it on a sorc healing with barrier/bastion and immunity with bastion after barrier and and and attacking afterwards is probably the closet you you can get to taking no dmg, h2f, and doing dmg. =)

[ShadessaWayland]

Ops tend to focus targets and try to 1 v 1 so you may feel their cc directly specifically at you as they are up in your face about it. But don't be alarmed Only one stun can actually hold you for 4 seconds while taking damage. The rest will drop when you take damage.

 

 

Yes they can roll twice every 10 seconds and a conceal op will absorb damage up on each roll. If you are channeling blazing bolts an op will roll. Sometimes you can use this to force them to roll allowing you to focus other attacks you have saved up prior to the roll. Use them after the roll. Remember its 10 seconds, so dont pop net or cc or heatseeker during a roll, this will cripple you.

 

 

It can be argued a lot of people play most classes but in Warzones I tend to see more juggs, and sorcs than operatives by a large margin.

 

 

 

Juggs have high burst, they are a good dps class and have a lot of defensive cooldowns. The reason his health can go to full is Enraged Defense. It has 12 stacks and each one can heal for quite a bit. It can start being used even while stunned below 70% health. Also Endure pain is a 30% health increase and a lot of juggs will pop that along with their warzone medpack at the same time and will heal them most the way. Endure pain is just a hp increase for a short period and will drop after 10 seconds (20 if immortal).

 

Saber reflect last 3 seconds and can not only prevent damage from ranged attacks, but force and tech attacks. (Any ability that will show yellow numbers in combat). With a utility it can last 5 seconds. It can devastate heavy hitters, especially a merc who uses blazing bolts and heatseeker and railshot, which if timed correctly could be completely absorbed by a saber reflect. You as a merc know how powerful that combo is, now reflected back at you? Ouch. You see reflect, cancel that blazing bolts, and consider using a cc, knockback, or self heal in the meantime to prevent the jugg from possibly killing you in the process.

 

 

 

 

Enraged Defense. 12 stacks will heal each time it takes damage. Used in a group is almost certain to use all 12 stacks and heal the jugg. Stuck 1 v 1 as a merc against this beast. Look for the charges appear, or if you suddenly see a spike in heals while attacking stop. Use concussion missile on him. (Granted if you can try to get them to use their cc breaker in advance this helps). That will last 8 seconds and you can use that time to heal up a bit since you are a merc. Then when that wears off just dance about a lil until you see the charges drop. He just wasted a cooldown with no benefit. That is huge on a jugg. He will be at low life still. Granted he can still use endure pain and a warzone medpack but he lost out on an extra life. Meanwhile you are healed up more. If he doesnt do this, just LoS him and pop h/o and run around a bit casting kolto shots at yourself and emergency scan and hope he cant stay on you.

 

 

 

I agree, mercs self heals aren't top notch so you need to use LoS, knockback, stuns to keep him at bay while you heal. Also save net. Dont use during ED obviously the ticks will heal him. After he uses ED you are golden. He cant leap and he will crawl and take dmg. Use this time to burst or heal up he may even have saber reflect up again or hasn't used it and may attempted that to absorb dmg. If he does even better to heal. Now you wasted that ability too. Net is your golden ticket against Juggs and any melee class if used right.

 

 

 

Mercs are just exceptionally squishy. Kolto overloads wasn't good at lvl 50 and its not good now. Juggs are a pain to 1 v 1 but it is possible on a merc it just takes time waiting out cooldowns, kiting, los, and healing even with the tiny heals you have. With a jugg its all about timing but in 1 v 1 it can almost get predictable. In a fight expect endure pain and saber reflect to be used twice. If its not going well, even ED can be back up in 1 min 30 seconds with utility.

 

this part is what i mean what you wrote

 

Mercs are just exceptionally squishy. Kolto overloads wasn't good at lvl 50 and its not good now. Juggs are a pain to 1 v 1 but it is possible on a merc it just takes time waiting out cooldowns, kiting, los, and healing even with the tiny heals you have. With a jugg its all about timing but in 1 v 1 it can almost get predictable. In a fight expect endure pain and saber reflect to be used twice. If its not going well, even ED can be back up in 1 min 30 seconds with utility.

 

how can a heavy armor be squishy

that is the worst mistake BW did to merc and commando and that problem much change very fast

am a heavy armored walking turret but i die in a few seconds

 

most pvp players jump on me first and ignore the rest because am dead in no time

so in term am a easy target to get rid off first

 

i can do good damage and they know that but they also know am very fast dead

so i try ea pvp battle to stay as far away as possible and try to hit them and hope the dont see me ad first

 

sometimes it work and sometimes am always the target

but i stile love that class

 

im mostly around 20 to 30 kills its not that bad

and am lvl 44 and am around so 500 a 600k total damage when it ends a jugg i see is so 800k to over 1 mill

 

but i will see when i hit 65 with a full pvp gear how things work out

 

btw thx for every detail you wrote its very helpful:)

[foxmob]

I have gotten bored and been a douche in several warzones where I decided to go ahead and camp. Usually to try to make a sorc or an operative rage quit..

 

can I maybe ask that you please don't do that? I want to punch alrik in the face, personally. but that's because he turns every thread into this when that's not what it's about. but if you purposely do that. I mean. just...please don't.

[Dacri]

please bioware delete this class and bring balance to the galaxy, operatives are way too much overpowered, they have ruled the universe for long enough, it is time for sorcerers to rise again, with the help of bioware and EA we shall bring the precious balance to the galaxy

 

 

i pray everyday to bw and ea to do this, pray with me brothers

[VixenRawR]

please bioware delete this class and bring balance to the galaxy, operatives are way too much overpowered, they have ruled the universe for long enough, it is time for sorcerers to rise again, with the help of bioware and EA we shall bring the precious balance to the galaxy

 

 

i pray everyday to bw and ea to do this, pray with me brothers

 

Don't worry, the next bug through EAware, an op will use roll and delete itself. Bringing the peace and harmony you have desired for so long.

[sumquy]

There is no stunlocking to death and globaling in this game anymore. For a long time now. Even a merc with lucky crits on everything will only take around half your hp bar.

 

Op 1v1 damage does not lag behind other classes though. A few people say that ops damage suck. Lol what? No it doesn't. You have to dance around, which means you are not there dpsing, If you are, the damage isn't bad.

 

Compared to the other stealth class- sins, the damage is better or the same. But with more survavability.

 

that is just not true. there is good reason ops are not welcome in nim level ops: our damage sucks serious *** and lags behind every other spec. my burst window is backstab, volatile substance, and veiled stirke. if i am lucky i will get 30k out of it, but then all i have left is laceration that only hits for 5k or 9k if i crit. you ever try to whittle down 40k health 5k at a time? and that is only if i don't have to use any of my globals for defense. yes, we can kill any other class in a 1v1, but it takes forever and a day to do it, and is not as helpful as so many seem to think in a wz environment.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There is no stunlocking to death and globaling in this game anymore.

 

There is. With 2 against 1 Newbie. There is.

[Tsetso]

There is. With 2 against 1 Newbie. There is.

 

If you played at launch you'd know that operatives were able to solo stunlock and kill everyone with creative stacking of click relics, adrenals and pvp buff.