Your opinion on Ability Pruning

[SVTCarnage]

Ability Pruning is a awful answer to accessibility or mainstreaming for a tab targeting mmorpg. Blizzard made World of Warcraft more accessible, and more mainstream then ever before. While arena is still going to be competitive and fun, PvP as a whole has become very simplified to the point of it being a bit stale. The classes in Swtor now actually have more abilities then a class in World of Warcraft. The depth, or complexity of classes has been gradually heading to a very simplified state in WoW.

 

I am not a fan of ability pruning at all, its awful for PvPer's in my opinion.

 

I want to read what everyone else thinks about ability pruning, what your opinion and thoughts are on it.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[Technohic]

What?

[Glower]

Im scared now! Don't tell me that this crap is going to SWTOR...

[SVTCarnage]

Im scared now! Don't tell me that this crap is going to SWTOR...

 

Its possible, but I don't know when or if they will do it.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[Shirvington]

Yes! We need some pruning again. The classes already have borderline too many abilities, and with a possible level cap increase, there is a real possibility for MORE abilities.

 

There is no reason why the classes can't feel different and have different playstyles with fewer rather than more abilities.

 

I'm all for a removal/merge of some class abilities.

[Kaedusz]

Yes! We need some pruning again. The classes already have borderline too many abilities, and with a possible level cap increase, there is a real possibility for MORE abilities.

 

There is no reason why the classes can't feel different and have different playstyles with fewer rather than more abilities.

 

I'm all for a removal/merge of some class abilities.

 

go fall in a sarlacc pit pls

[Tsetso]

Its possible, but I don't know when or if they will do it.

 

They already started. Acid blade and Hidden Strike were merged with backstab.

[Saregon]

I think I.O. could use some pruning, there are way too many things on the priority list, and energy management sucks and is no fun.

[GrandLordMenace]

No. no pruning. No. If we prune anything it should be DCDs.

[Nempo]

Some extra combinations such as the operative has seen could help.

Or...my preference...any NEW skills need to replace old skills.

[Belpheghor]

I vote in favor of ability pruning. Tired of having more abilities than I have room for on my hotbars.

 

Streamlining abilities allows you to play faster. No one wants a 30 ability rotation especially in PvP where battles last a few seconds at best.

 

For real, that's why specs with long rotations aren't used a lot in PvP. The most used classes are generally the simpler ones, not just because they're easier, but because there literally isn't time to use a spec with a long rotation.

 

Sadly this is a PvE game first so our voice is ignored, but keeping rotations simple on specs means more will play them in PvP, fact.

[Kaedusz]

I vote in favor of ability pruning. Tired of having more abilities than I have room for on my hotbars.

 

Streamlining abilities allows you to play faster. No one wants a 30 ability rotation especially in PvP where battles last a few seconds at best.

 

For real, that's why specs with long rotations aren't used a lot in PvP. The most used classes are generally the simpler ones, not just because they're easier, but because there literally isn't time to use a spec with a long rotation.

 

Sadly this is a PvE game first so our voice is ignored, but keeping rotations simple on specs means more will play them in PvP, fact.

 

No class has more abilities than hotbars.

 

No class uses 30 abilities. Usually there are 3,4 that are spammed and 3,4 with a huge cd.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Metthew]

No class has more abilities than hotbars.

 

No class uses 30 abilities. Usually there are 3,4 that are spammed and 3,4 with a huge cd.

I have 34 abilities keybound on my toolbars while PvP'ing. This excludes regen / buff, but includes stims and a grenade. Purely in class abilities, I use 31.

 

If I'm PvE'ing, the aggro-dump (useful for operatives in PvP but not snipers so much) brings the total to 35 (stims are replaced with a medpac and a adrenal, KB grenade replaced by a DPS grenade).

 

edit: I play sniper.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Metthew

[Greezt]

No class has more abilities than hotbars.

 

No class uses 30 abilities. Usually there are 3,4 that are spammed and 3,4 with a huge cd.

 

He's partially right, although I'd say that in PvP I use many more abilities than in PvE. Just thinking about my shadow, I have 9 regular attacks, taunts, an OCD, 5 DCDs, interrup, CC breaker, two gap closers, two mezzes, two stuns, a knockback, a slow and blackout. That's 28 abilities, before counting stims/medpacks and buffs/out of combat heals.

 

In PvE I can drop CC, single target taunt, basically anything that isn't directly related to my rotation or survivability. All I get in exchainge is a stim and medpack (which you already use in PvP).

[Belpheghor]

No class has more abilities than hotbars.

 

No class uses 30 abilities. Usually there are 3,4 that are spammed and 3,4 with a huge cd.

 

Technically I use more than 30.

 

3 rows of 12 abilities on my hotbars, so 36..........you're right, I should have raised the number up from 30, my bad ;P

 

Point stands, specs with simpler rotations are more PvP friendly. You didn't counter my core argument ONE bit ..........that was that longer rotations are less effective in the quick battles that happen during PvP.

 

Try again.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Belpheghor

[foxmob]

No class has more abilities than hotbars.

 

No class uses 30 abilities. Usually there are 3,4 that are spammed and 3,4 with a huge cd.

 

I use a logitech g600 (20 buttons) and a logitech g13 keypad (22 keys). I have more abilities than I do buttons/keys. that's 42 binds. I also bind other stuff to macro just to make room for 1-button abilities (not having to alt-key -- which would make sense as a target modifier).

 

there are a couple non combat abilities that also share those 42 binds: 1 speeder, Q, W, E. that's 4.

 

I choose to bind certain essential in combat stuff as well: WZ adrenal, WZ medpac, target next enemy, target focus target's target, auto run, left mouse, right mouse, cyber grenade, temp quickbar 1. that's 9.

 

so 42 potential one button binds drops down to 30 pretty quickly. there are more than 30 essential, class specific abilities even on arsenal (which is fewer than IO or juggs or sins, etc.).

 

however, you're technically correct. there are more than enough quickbar slots. the issue (for me anyway) is what can you bind them to? the answer, of course, is you have to alt key. I don't blame ppl for not wanting to alt key.

 

on the other hand, I would hate hate hate this game if they made combat like Guild Wars or Wild Star where there are only ~9 active combat slots.

Edited August 15, 2016 by foxmob

[Groncho]

yeahh.....let's make the game dumber !!!!!!!!!

[Alec_Fortescue]

I like where SWTOR is with the amount of abilities. Played WoW last month and the amount of cooldowns was laughable. I won't mind a new ability every year or two or an ability replacer.

 

SWTOR badly needs class balance but that can be done without pruning.

 

While we're talking about WoW, i found it much easier to play and manage cooldowns combined with what is going on screen in swtor rather than wow. I dont like auto attack as well.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Alec_Fortescue

[Kaedusz]

there are more than enough quickbar slots. the issue (for me anyway) is what can you bind them to? the answer, of course, is you have to alt key. I don't blame ppl for not wanting to alt key.

F1-F4 ;Tab ;letters ; 1-6 ; shift 1-6 ; shift letters. oh and '' ` ''.

Imo this is enough for all classes and specs. Maybe 1 or 2 extra mouse keys for those that like it. I use those for wz medpacs.

 

stance and mounts don't have to be on a keybind.

* * *

In regards to the pruning i can't imagine any ability being removed or combined from any spec, without making the game as the guy above said ''dumber'' as an end in itself.

Maybe IO can use some changes but not sure if it would involve pruning.

 

Please don't put ideas in BW's heads, the game is fine as it is as far as the stuff talked about in this thread is concerned.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Technohic]

i generally am mapped with 48 hotkeys using modifiers plus my Naga. I do not use all of them, but make up for that with the targetting commands, maps for the special toolbar, cover, etc on other keys.

 

 

That said; it depends on the class. My sin has easily the most abilities I use and i kind of like it for that. My conc operative has the fewest and i like it for that so i can focus less on abilities and more on situational awareness.

 

I dont think we need pruning unless the game became more "action combat" which i doubt it will. Some DOT classes i feel could get their general rotation more direct, but not necessarily pruned.

[Belpheghor]

For PvE sure, 100 million ablities is fine, but in PvP the fights are too brief. On specs with long rotations I honestly don't get to even finish a full rotation half the time.

 

Maybe when you're 1 on 1 duels away from the zerg you can and in some arena and ranked fights, but in most 8 on 8 scrums the quicker the rotation the more likely your success.

 

Specs that take time to buid up, like say, Lethality Op or Annihilation Mara just aren't as good as their quicker rotation counterparts like Concealment Op or Carnage Mara.

 

I get it that some specs were probably designed for PvE and some for PvP, fine, but the point remains.

 

I don't want this game stripped down to an Elder Scrolls Online or GW2 level of abilities, just merg a few to streamline our hotbars and shorten up the rotations on some specs so that they are USED more.

[DerSchneider]

Maybe when you're 1 on 1 duels away from the zerg you can and in some arena and ranked fights, but in most 8 on 8 scrums the quicker the rotation the more likely your success.

 

Specs that take time to buid up, like say, Lethality Op or Annihilation Mara just aren't as good as their quicker rotation counterparts like Concealment Op or Carnage Mara.

 

Just your opinion.

Don't compare dot-spread and burst specs. Concealment is better just because of jesus-roll. However in 8v8 it is easy to do more total dmg as lethality, even with poor dotspread mechanic.

About watchman/anni - amazing in all game modes right now.

Edited August 16, 2016 by DerSchneider

[BadHoneyBadger]

Edit: Alright sorry I left the description of this thread totally empty for awhile. We are going to jump right into this.

 

Ability Pruning is a awful answer to accessibility or mainstreaming for a tab targeting mmorpg. Blizzard made World of Warcraft more accessible, and more mainstream then ever before. While arena is still going to be competitive and fun, PvP as a whole has become very simplified to the point of it being a bit stale. The classes in Swtor now actually have more abilities then a class in World of Warcraft. The depth, or complexity of classes has been gradually heading to a very simplified state in WoW.

 

I am not a fan of ability pruning at all, its awful for PvPer's in my opinion.

 

Now you might be asking yourself at this point, is Swtor going to prune abilities? I don't know. They simplified the talent trees a bit, while not a big deal, it is kind of a gateway or step to simplifying classes. But no I really don't know if Bioware has plans for pruning abilities, I hope not. Bioware and Blizzard make money off of WoW and Swtor, and the more people that play there games the more money they make. So its definitely not out of the question that Bioware would simplify there classes in the future.

 

I want to read what everyone else thinks about ability pruning, what your opinion and thoughts are on it.

 

How much more simple can it get? They already took away the individuality of skill tree's for one. The second is taking away main stat and surge because evidently it was too hard to figure out for somebody somewhere. You no longer have to actually watch for procs as they glow when you proc them. Any more simple they might as well just have quick shot and saber strike.

[Virus_Bot]

They will have ability pruning whether some of you like it or not. They will do it just because WoW did it and they just can't stop themselves when it comes to copying WoW.

Plus another reasons is to make the game more "accessible".

I expect they will do it by the next "expansion".

[-sasori]

Hope it comes, as a commando im stuck with useless crap abilities all over my bar. Not as bad as before the first merge but still full of 'because for the lulz' skills intended for the other trees.

At the top of my head there are at least 7 abilities that can be removed for gunnery.

 

I just use them for fun everyday so i can pretend i have more than 5 usefull attack skills.