Thank you BioWare for the best expansion yet.

[Aowin]

Without a doubt, KotFE is far better than Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Revan combined (not including GSF and GSH as they were QoL updates). While many may criticize KotFE for being a forced single player experience, I think many seem to forget what separates SWTOR from every other MMO on the market: BioWare Storytelling.

 

That's not to say BioWare shouldn't accommodate folks with traditional MMO content, such as new wzs, fps, and ops, but that's not what makes SWTOR special. When this game launched in December 2011, it was the eight separate class stories that got folks excited for this game, not the one broken operation (EV) and the other incomplete operation with a broken boss (KP).

 

SWTOR tanked because there was nothing to do once the class stories were over, and that's what many folks wanted to continue. RotHC was a disappointment as it failed to move the story forward in any meaningful way and SoR was a cash grab on an iconic character holstering up what was a mediocre story.

 

KotFE was a return to BioWare storytelling, and in an extremely positive way. KotET seems to be continuing what KotFE started, and BioWare suggests it has learned a lot from KotFE to better develop the next expansion. Obviously, folks will always have something to complain about. That being said, what makes SWTOR different from every other theme park MMO on the market, again, is BioWare storytelling. That should always be the focus for this game.

 

BioWare can always add in more operations, fps, and wzs over time to provide more variety in content, but it's the BioWare storytelling many want. It's the reason KotFE is the most successful expansion to date and significantly increased BioWare's subscriber base to numbers we haven't seen in years. None of the other expansions did that and it's worth considering why that is.

 

Great job BioWare. I look forward to seeing how you improve upon this new BioWare storytelling expansion format.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aowin

[Slerdnico]

Yes bioware, thank you so much.

 

I can't wait to try out KOTET this fall.

 

Thank you for bringing us players an awesome experience we'll never forget until we die.

[Andryah]

I agree it was a pretty good expansion.

 

It was also controversial in that it introduced a chapter based rolling release of the expac over time that is largely solo RP focused (not a bad approach in todays market by the way, just that it pisses off some endgamers who cannot get out of their own box). Some MMO players enjoy this.. some detest it. If they had released some new OPs with it, I think more people would embrace the expac. Since they did not.. they gave some people plenty of fodder to throw back at them.

 

So in the end, I am very interested in seeing what they do with the next one. If we see a continuation of the approach then clearly more people have enjoyed it then disliked and ranted about it. The studio WILL follow the money.. since they are not a charity. What people pay for and play is easily logged by studios these days and help factor into their future directions.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Andryah

[josephxp]

Without a doubt, KotFE is far better than Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Revan combined (not including GSF and GSH as they were QoL updates). While many may criticize KotFE for being a forced single player experience, I think many seem to forget what separates SWTOR from every other MMO on the market: BioWare Storytelling.

 

That's not to say BioWare shouldn't accommodate folks with traditional MMO content, such as new wzs, fps, and ops, but that's not what makes SWTOR special. When this game launched in December 2011, it was the eight separate class stories that got folks excited for this game, not the one broken operation (EV) and the other incomplete operation with a broken boss (KP).

 

 

They gave us 2 new WZ's a new arena and a new form, so that debunks what you already said about new WZ's

 

 

As for the new ops BW has a choke order from EA where they cannot disclose new operations and FP's until a certain period of time before the release, this is because of the Shadow of Revan Fiasco which you may or may not remember, so they cannot disclose that they are working on a new operation(s) because of that choke order. But it is highly likely they are currently making a new operation, they can't just focus on a new WZ then people say we want new operations while they are half way through developing a new WZ which people have been asking for which is probably a basis for future cross faction WZ scenarios they have to start somewhere.

 

and KP isnt incomplete or broken, i just did it a few days ago with no trouble.

[Aowin]

I agree it was a pretty good expansion.

 

It was also controversial in that it introduced a chapter based rolling release of the expac over time that is largely solo RP focused (not a bad approach in todays market by the way, just that it pisses off some endgamers who cannot get out of their own box). Some MMO players enjoy this.. some detest it. If they had released some new OPs with it, I think more people would embrace the expac. Since they did not.. they gave some people plenty of fodder to throw back at them.

 

So in the end, I am very interested in seeing what they do with the next one. If we see a continuation of the approach then clearly more people have enjoyed it then disliked and ranted about it. The studio WILL follow the money.. since they are not a charity. What people pay for and play is easily logged by studios these days and help factor into their future directions.

 

By dragging out the expansion over time (compounded with monthly subscriber rewards) it gave the impression that we had a frequent flow of content, which I'm not against. It's far better than the quarterly approach BioWare used to follow where we would just have droughts for months until we had anything.

 

I know not everybody cares about BioWare storytelling, but many folks do. Operations, flashpoints, warzones, and all other endgame content are fine and dandy, but that kind of content is standard in every MMO. BioWare storytelling, on the other hand, is something only SWTOR does.

 

It's not as if BioWare hasn't added a lot of flashpoints, operations, and warzones since this game released. We've had KP, EC, TFB, S&V, DF, DP, TR, and ToS all added since launch. We've had novare coast, ancient hypergate, quesh huttball, alliance proving grounds, and arenas added for PvP. We've also had more FPs than I can name off the top of my head. The problem with this content (especially the PVE content) is that its finite and doesn't have great replay value.

 

It also doesn't help that SWTOR's endgame isn't really anything special or spectacular when compared to other theme park MMOs. BioWare storytelling, however, is something that SWTOR uniquely has. I'm not saying BioWare should not do future operations at all (I'm sure there are a few in the works), but clearly the BioWare storytelling is what the majority wants.

[Aowin]

They gave us 2 new WZ's a new arena and a new form, so that debunks what you already said about new WZ's

 

 

As for the new ops BW has a choke order from EA where they cannot disclose new operations and FP's until a certain period of time before the release, this is because of the Shadow of Revan Fiasco which you may or may not remember, so they cannot disclose that they are working on a new operation(s) because of that choke order. But it is highly likely they are currently making a new operation, they can't just focus on a new WZ then people say we want new operations while they are half way through developing a new WZ which people have been asking for which is probably a basis for future cross faction WZ scenarios they have to start somewhere.

 

and KP isnt incomplete or broken, i just did it a few days ago with no trouble.

 

Actually, you are wrong. We received one new wz and two new arenas. I'm not sure what you mean by a "new form." My point is many have been claiming endgame (especially raiding) has taken a backseat to single player BioWare storytelling. To an extent, that is true, but obviously the implications and success of KotFE indicate what most people actually want out of SWTOR.

 

Unless you provide an actual source for your assertion there is some "choke order," I'll consider that baseless speculation. The only reason BioWare wouldn't want to talk about future operations or any endgame content is because it's not ready. BioWare was burned in the past when they talked about content that wasn't ready. Remember EV and KP at launch? Neither was ready for release and both were broken for months.

 

By the way, closely read what I said again. EV and KP were broken AT LAUNCH. I didn't say they were broken now. We only had one boss for KP at launch and it was broken. EV was completely broken, especially the Soa fight.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aowin

[TUXs]

Yes...thank you for destroying guilds, servers and entire communities with KOTFE. MMOs had become too social for some folk...solo play is where it's at.

[Codedrago]

Alright, how much did EA pay you?

[Aowin]

Yes...thank you for destroying guilds, servers and entire communities with KOTFE. MMOs had become too social for some folk...solo play is where it's at.

 

KotFE revitalized what was largely a dead MMO. It's done the entire opposite of what you are suggesting. Again, there are more subscribers for SWTOR than there have been in years thanks to this expansion. More raids are going to come. BioWare is just making up for the last five years of not having BioWare storytelling in the game at all. Everyone won't be pleased, but many folks who bought this game for the storytelling to start will be.

[TUXs]

KotFE revitalized what was largely a dead MMO. It's done the entire opposite of what you are suggesting. Again, there are more subscribers for SWTOR than there have been in years thanks to this expansion. More raids are going to come. BioWare is just making up for the last five years of not having BioWare storytelling in the game at all. Everyone won't be pleased, but many folks who bought this game for the storytelling to start will be.

Who are you trying to fool exactly? Yourself? They've been telling a story SINCE launch...EVERY expansion has been story centric. KOTFE was the first one that gave up on everything else, but story...and it was the most linear story as well.

 

ROTHC was story centric. Czerka was story centric. Oricon was story centric. Foraged Alliances was 100% story centric. Ziost was 100% story. SoR was story centric...where do you get this idea that story hasn't been been the focus all along? It clearly has been...and previous stories were far better and faction specific. Know what all of those updates had that KOTFE didn't? Group and repeatable content.

[Aowin]

Who are you trying to fool exactly? Yourself? They've been telling a story SINCE launch...EVERY expansion has been story centric. KOTFE was the first one that gave up on everything else, but story...and it was the most linear story as well.

 

ROTHC was story centric. Czerka was story centric. Oricon was story centric. Foraged Alliances was 100% story centric. Ziost was 100% story. SoR was story centric...where do you get this idea that story hasn't been been the focus all along? It clearly has been...and previous stories were far better and faction specific. Know what all of those updates had that KOTFE didn't? Group and repeatable content.

 

We've had a semblance of story, but not BioWare storytelling like we had with the eight classes since launch. RotHC was bad. SoR was mediocre. We have not had true BioWare storytelling in five years, which is why BioWare made such a bit deal about KotFE. I guess you can't tell the difference.

 

Czerka and Oricon are daily zones. Forged alliances was some dialogue but really just four fps. Ziost was a short 2-hour prelude for KotFE. As I said, you can't seem to distinguish between BioWare storytelling and the skimpy attempts at a story with all the daily zones and small updates we've had for five years. There is a difference.

 

KotFE added more fps and more wzs/arenas. The only thing it did not add was a new raid and pointless daily zones. You can claim KotFE was horrible, but clearly the amount of money BioWare made off the expansion proves otherwise.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aowin

[TUXs]

KotFE added more fps and more wzs/arenas. The only thing it did not add was a new raid and pointless daily zones. You can claim KotFE was horrible, but clearly the amount of money BioWare made off the expansion proves otherwise.

A FP. A WZ. A Arena. Not multiples. How do you figure they've made money off this? Do you have a source or are you guessing?

[DawnAskham]

We've had a semblance of story, but not BioWare storytelling like we had with the eight classes since launch. RotHC was bad. SoR was mediocre. We have not had true BioWare storytelling in five years, which is why BioWare made such a bit deal about KotFE. I guess you can't tell the difference.

 

Czerka and Oricon are daily zones. Forged alliances was some dialogue but really just four fps. Ziost was a short 2-hour prelude for KotFE. As I said, you can't seem to distinguish between BioWare storytelling and the skimpy attempts at a story with all the daily zones and small updates we've had for five years. There is a difference.

 

KotFE added more fps and more wzs/arenas. The only thing it did not add was a new raid and pointless daily zones. You can claim KotFE was horrible, but clearly the amount of money BioWare made off the expansion proves otherwise.

 

I must have missed the new FP, I didn't see anything but rescaled (and poorly rescaled at that) FPs and Ops in KotFE.

 

I also must have missed where they announced how much money they made off the expansion, along with comparison numbers for previous expansions.

 

BTW I had a paid sub when 4.0 hit, dropped it shortly thereafter, and only subbed again for the month to finish the story - had they actually added new FPs and Ops with 4.0, I probably would have kept a sub the entire time.

 

Also I guess it is a great story if you like one generic story rather than eight individual stories, and especially if you like your story dribbled out over many months and padded with loads of boring copy / paste enemies.

 

So at least IMO and in my voting with my wallet - this was the worst expansion ever and one for which I spent the least amount of money with Bioware.

[Frenesi]

We've had a semblance of story, but not BioWare storytelling like we had with the eight classes since launch. RotHC was bad. SoR was mediocre. We have not had true BioWare storytelling in five years, which is why BioWare made such a bit deal about KotFE. I guess you can't tell the difference.

 

Czerka and Oricon are daily zones. Forged alliances was some dialogue but really just four fps. Ziost was a short 2-hour prelude for KotFE. As I said, you can't seem to distinguish between BioWare storytelling and the skimpy attempts at a story with all the daily zones and small updates we've had for five years. There is a difference.

 

KotFE added more fps and more wzs/arenas. The only thing it did not add was a new raid and pointless daily zones. You can claim KotFE was horrible, but clearly the amount of money BioWare made off the expansion proves otherwise.

Yea. Becouse, surprisingly, milking you playerbase for 3/4 a year subscription actually generates money from said subscription. Who would have thought.

 

RotHC had very good imperial story and decent republic one. SoR had decent story and nice class-specific quests. KotFE has exactly 1 story, fit only for Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior and completely retarded on any non-force using class. It also completely demolished any development of previous storyline. You know, entire war between Empire and Republic? With all the buildup from main game, RotHC? Aliience development from SoR? This ended amazingly. "Rock falls, everyone dies".

 

And I'm really curious what are those "more fps". Copy-pasted star fortresses that aren't even part of GF?

Edited August 9, 2016 by Frenesi

[Tsetso]

A FP. A WZ. A Arena. Not multiples. How do you figure they've made money off this? Do you have a source or are you guessing?

 

What FP? If you're talking about SF that's not a FP - it's solo. At most you could say it's H2

[TUXs]

What FP? If you're talking about SF that's not a FP - it's solo. At most you could say it's H2

Yeah, that's the one I meant, but you're right...it's really more like a heroic.

[Aowin]

A FP. A WZ. A Arena. Not multiples. How do you figure they've made money off this? Do you have a source or are you guessing?

 

Technically it's six flashpoints, although obviously the basic layout is the same for each. The flashpoint also changes based on whether you are solo or in a group. It has a not more replay value than any previous flashpoint, which are all static and do not change.

 

We have a new wz which allows cross-faction play as well as TWO new arenas. I'm just going to assume you don't PvP very often, if at all. BioWare literally stated shortly after KotFE released that its subscription base increased higher than it has been in years. SWTOR also saw a huge boost in new players coming to the game because of KotFE, unlike with previous expansions and updates.

 

SWTOR is more popular now than it has been since launch. You are definitely in the minority if you think KotFE was a terrible expansion.

[Aowin]

Yea. Becouse, surprisingly, milking you playerbase for 3/4 a year subscription actually generates money from said subscription. Who would have thought.

 

RotHC had very good imperial story and decent republic one. SoR ahd decent story and nice class-specific quests. KotFE has exactly 1 story, fit only for Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior and completely retarded on any non-force using class. It also completely demolished any development of previous storyline. You know, entire war between Empire and Republic? With all the buildup from main game, RotHC? Aliience development from SoR? This ended amazingly. "Rock falls, everyone dies".

 

And I'm really curious what are those "more fps". Copy-pasted star fortresses that aren't even part of GF?

 

Whether you like BioWare's methods or not, they have more subscribers now than they have had in a very long time.

 

RotHC forced a generic story on both factions and had us fighting against the Hutt Cartel instead of each other. SoR had a generic story that was propped up by BioWare's most cherished character that had us fighting him instead of each other. This game has not been about Republic versus Empire since it launched... You want to know why? It's easier and cheaper to do story and content when both factions are working together instead of against each other.

 

When did something have to be in GF to be considered a FP? Collicoid War Games has been a flashpoint in the game since launch and it's not in GF. Is that not a FP? Like many of the FPs, Star Fortress has a solo mode and a tactical mode (of which both are different).

[Keta]

The diversity of opinions about KOFTE in general and chapter 16 in particular around these forums is really amusing. There's another thread about how bad it is where the vitriol has set new heights (depths?) even for a game forum. So I never know whether there's dripping sarcasm in either extreme.

 

I enjoyed KOFTE 1-15 once and found it meh on all the replays. I dislike the end quite a bit twice. Too many unresolved plot holes and a lack of at least an illusion that our choices mattered.

 

But that's just me; I've been known to be wrong.

[Aztian]

gosh darn crapp Exppack story fine .. but raids lol cya in next year when all the chapers are out and i resub 1 month and play them all under 10 hours

[Slurmez]

I disagree entirely, the story was interesting enough but was completely linear and choices once again didnt matter a damn and the "action" between cut scenes was tedious, lazy and formulaic and made a mockery of a "MMO".

 

I can buy several graphic novels and go to the movies but this expansion was nigh on pointless and not a commercial success which is why they had to try and bribe people into activity with the DvL stuff.

 

C16 was garbage.

[Savej]

It's hard to judge the success of KOTFE. If we had gotten a more traditional xpac (with the same Blur trailer) around the time the NEW STAR WARS movie came out, would the game be doing better or worse right now? I'm not opposed to BW trying new things... but they focused almost everything on -one- new thing (and the CM) for way too long. I'm looking forward to the "real" KOTET announcement but at this point I'm also taking a hard look at Legion.

[Aowin]

The diversity of opinions about KOFTE in general and chapter 16 in particular around these forums is really amusing. There's another thread about how bad it is where the vitriol has set new heights (depths?) even for a game forum. So I never know whether there's dripping sarcasm in either extreme.

 

I enjoyed KOFTE 1-15 once and found it meh on all the replays. I dislike the end quite a bit twice. Too many unresolved plot holes and a lack of at least an illusion that our choices mattered.

 

But that's just me; I've been known to be wrong.

 

Part of the problem is we have different gamers who make up the SWTOR community. There are those who just like story. There are those who just like raiding. There are those who just like flashpoints. There are those who just like PvP. There are even those who just like running dailies. Then we have players who are in between and do a bit of everything. Of course, some folks will just troll for the sake of trolling.

 

KotFE was clearly made to please those who wanted BioWare storytelling first and foremost. For those who don't care about story at all, they found this expansion to be a waste of time and resources. I find that a little ironic, considering even at launch this game was largely about story. Either way, people are entitled to their opinions, regardless of how well-informed they may be.

 

KotFE is not perfect and there is plenty of room for improvement. That being said, I still will stand by my opinion that it is the best expansion SWTOR has had to date. I'm hoping KotET will improve many of the inadequacies of its predecessor, but only time will tell.

[Holocron]

Yes...thank you for destroying guilds, servers and entire communities with KOTFE. MMOs had become too social for some folk...solo play is where it's at.

 

They really didn't lie when the said that swtor is going to be kotor 3, 4, 5, etc.

[benmas]

this is a joke right?

 

you liked this massive failure of an expac with 8 EIGHT HOUR patch times (chapter 10)

bugs bugs bugs (everything, some still not fixed *cough* xeno and eyeless *cough*)

 

no new content (15 minutes of killing hordes of mindless un challenging sky troopers and 45 minutes of rubbish cinematic and "choices" is not content)

 

going to leave this here or it will be a huge essay of why this expac failed