Please Make Hard Mode Flashpoints Worth it.

[Shwarzchild]

The previous poster a few pages back hit the nail on the head in that the end game model is broken. Broken might be too harsh of a word to use, but none the less it's confused at the very least.

 

The primary culprit is bolster, and they absolutely nailed it when they said story mode operations should be max level, and have no bolster.

 

Absolutely on point.

 

Also one hundred percent on point was the need for these things to drop decorations and the command walker more frequently.

 

The only thing that should be available for players not at max level should be solo mode flashpoints, and tacticals. They aren't at end game if they're not at 65. There's no reason to act like any player there is. It's a jumbled mess with the level gaps, and the bolster.

 

Sadly, it will not change even though it should. I don't see bioware ever going back and actually thinking through how the pieces fit together again after 4.0 dropped.

 

If I were going to change things I'd do the following:

 

1) Remove bolster from Storymode Operations. Make it only available to level 65 players.

2) Remove bolster from hard mode flashpoints.

3) Add a new gear tier: 208 set bonus. Bosses should drop 208 set bonus itemized pieces. They have it already there for pvp. They certainly can do it for pve.

4) If tiers are needed, then split them into tiers and for the top tier those flashpoints should drop 216 set bonus pieces just like the days of old with Kaon and Lost Island.

 

 

If this is all done, then you have a pathway to develop skill. I'd even go so far as to have an "unlock" system going on:

 

Eternal Championship unlocks tier 1 of hard mode flashpoints (hammer station, esseles/ black talon, etc), completing those unlocks tier 2 of hardmode flashpoints, and then those unlock tier 3. Or only have two tiers. But, Tier 2 unlocks story mode operations. Story mode operations unlocks hard mode operations. Hard mode operations unlocks nim.

 

Have a one time mission for the unlock. Have a one time mission for each tier that grants an aratech mount, and make things make sense. Viola, in my mind that makes Hardmode flashpoints important, extends end game, and untangles the confusing nature of what should I be doing now that I've hit end game.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

They never needed bolster to begin with. It is just lazy development. They could have kept the original OPs at 50, then the new OPs at 65. But that would mean they actually have to make proper content once, maybe twice a year. And not just put out sloppy chapters that take little to no development.

 

Basically since SoR, BW as been dropping the reigns. And no it is not EA, that is just a easy whipping horse. It is BW Austin. They want to get subs, and money, for the least amount of effort. Now they have found the perfect stooges, people that basically are happy with a cheap incarnation of telltale games. A little bit of story every month, that really overall, isnt even that good besides maybe a couple of chapters.

[peter_plankskull]

Well its the weekend again... Peter is back again for the war on story mode operations and bolster.

 

Please don't mistake any points of disagreement as combative in nature, there are just a few points I felt should be addressed because I don't think it is a good idea for people to get the wrong idea about about the differences in difficulty between FPs and Operations, and there are a few things that might be misleading to newer players.

 

If I ever take a disagreement or different POV as a personal attack, then I will stop doing HM FPs.

 

No gear drops in Operations allow you to pick and choose. Even in the case wherein the drops are token gear drops, they are specific to each boss. Boss X drops token gear belt, or Boss V drops Token gear boots. All other gear that drops [non-token gear] are specific as well. A boss may drop a pair of boots and a belt, but you don't get to pick and choose anything. What does drop just like in flashpoints you roll for and maybe you get it and maybe you dont. Token gear does give you the option of some stat differences at the respective vendor you cash the token gear in to, but it doesnt let you choose the gear type. If you get a token gear boots, you have to get boots at the vendor you cannot take that boots token and get a belt with it.

 

My bad... I should of gone into slightly more detail with this. With operations you can pick more decisively on what gear you want, for instance, if you want a main hand, you pick EV or RAV, if you want a headpiece you pick DP or EC, etc. etc. Compare this to HMFPs, and its all completely random on what drops, and the drops themselves are far more spread out. Token drops are useful to EVERY class in operations due to being able to pick the type of gear stats within what you have received, aka you get boots, but the boots can be given into the vendor for a tank, healer, or DPS gear. While in HMFPs, the drops ALWAYS cater to a DPS/heal/tank, and isn't interchangeable.

 

With regard to mounts, mounts only drop in Operations on the last boss, in most cases the mounts are total crap. Decos do drop more frequently in Operations than in FPs. The decos that do drop are mostly specific to the Op in question and are going to be the same decos each time they do drop save for the last Boss which can drop a statue deco also Operation themed.

The opinion on mounts is subjective, and compare that to the mounts which almost NEVER drop in hard mode flashpoints, and since it's so rare everyone needs them. It took me 27 ROTHC HMFPs to finally get that BA2-walker with regards to actually getting it drop, and RNG favoring me. Still haven't got the Rendi Fireball in False Emperor or the Deslar Nomad which drops in any sub 50 FP in a HM.

 

I'm not sure what your basing the level of difference in difficulty between HM FPs and Operations on. In no way shape or form are HM FPs more difficult than Operations. And with regard to the DPS checks, the same applies. The DPS checks on almost all bosses in FPs HM or otherwise are less than youll find in Operations. If you take the linear perspective and compare HM FPs with HM Operations this DPS check difference is even more extreme. This is not to say necessarily that the DPS checks are hard on all bosses in all Operations for decently geared and decently skilled players, but the dps checks in a HM Operation will be higher than in any FP. You seem to take opposite view and inverse that, but that is not the case. If you try to get away with the DPSers doing 4k DPS in a HM Operation [even SM in many instances]. You are going to fail to meet the DPS check on many fights. Furthermore, I can think of no boss in any FP that would have a 5.5k dps check for DPSers. If that was the case, people leveling could not possibly meet the dps checks given the gear level they have available to them under 65.

By no means would I compare a HMFP to a HM operation, that's completely out of the ballpark...

 

Ill admit I was a little bit cheap, and I would argue only a very miniscule amount of bosses actually require that much DPS in a HM FP. I believe only the first boss in blood hunt, last boss of HM LI, and battle of rishi bonus boss actually require that much DPS. Unfortunately that was to far abroad of a claim for me to back up their in terms of DPS output of the bosses, but I will state that several HM FPs are going to going to require a EXTREME carry, if everyone isn't level 65. However I will base the mechanics between the two are what pulls HM FPs ahead of the gap.

 

Cleansing people anymore isn't really required which is unfortunate, IE DF 1st and 2nd bosses, people can just heal through it regardless now. Cleaves also are no longer a large priority to avoid, as once again, you can heal through it. Several other operation bosses has had a major rework so theirs little risk to the fight anymore. IE TFB Kephess, SNV oasis city boss, KP 4th boss, DP 3rd boss, and many more.

 

I love my guild, I really do, but some of the members just simply don't know their class. On our DF run, we had a really... really...unfamiliar group with their classes. Literally no cleanses were done by the healers... AT ALL throughout the ENTIRE run. Our DPS, a gunslinger, only spammed sweeping blasters on everything, even solo targets, and our sage just spammed telekinetic burst over... and over... and over. No one had any sense of kill order or used interrupts, at ALL during the 2nd fight with all the adds besides me. It's laughable how easy that fight is now.

It was just pure chaos in that fight, no one focused the corrupters, interrupted them, or cleansed the dots, draxxus stayed around during some extra rounds at time, and we STILL got through with everyone above 50-75% health or more.

 

The difficulty you are finding is not due to greater difficulty in HM FPs compared to Operations, because quite simply they are less difficult than operations. The difficulty stems from a few things. Mostly notably, lack of proper roles. You can quece for a HM FP and find yourself in a group lacking a healer or a tank or in many cases, both. Leaving groups of 4 DPSers going at the HM flashpoints. A futher proof of the lesser difficulty of HM FPS compared to Operations is while its possible to do HM FPs with only DPSers, you could not get away with getting through a whole Operation with only DPS [there are no kolto stations in Operations]. You might get thru one easy Operation boss like that with very skilled players but 95% of the time you can't.

 

Sorry... but I'm going to have to call BS on that. No way in hell can you do the majority of the HM FPs with 4 DPS. The only ones I can think of is MAYBE doing, is The Esseles and Black Talon, and those are by far and large the easiest, and im excluding bonus bosses, because im incredibly doubtful you would be able to down them. Going to need a video or something for a claim as large as this.

 

Another cause of difficulty in doing HM FPs and this is rampant, poor dps. From level 10-60 there is no "rotations" because you simply don't have all the attacks and skills to preform a class/spec's rotation and thus you are left with, at best, priorities. Adding to this is the level of skill of the players. Because people may have not had alot of experience yet, they simply don't yet know whats important to use and what isnt and are spamming basic attack.

And the last great contributer to the difficulty found in some doing HM FPS is poor gear. All DPS is a math equation. The numbers that one finds in the gear sets the damage ceiling potential. So even the most skilled of players cannot overcome the limitations imposed by the numbers found in their gear. A skilled player can mitigate that defecincy to some degree, but if even the best player cannot down an Operation boss in green level 10 gear. The numbers simply don't add up. There is no question that skill is more important, but, at the end of the day you can't overcome the laws of physics.

 

Pretty sure this is a factor in both operations and HM FPs, and its far easier to gear in story mode operations to the power of bolster.

 

Bolster is another huge culprit in making HM FPs difficult for some. It's extremely misleading. Bolster can up your stats, but it does nothing to make up for the skills a lower level player simply does not have yet. A level 15 tank is not going to be sufficiently able to tank properly a difficult boss because he simply doesn't have the skills necessary to over come the the threat being generated by the damage a level 62 Marauder is putting out. I play a carnage marauder myself, im geared in full 224, and every once and while I'll do an FP just for fun or to help someone I know out whos leveling a new character and I end up "tanking" the boss the whole fight because the lower level tank can't produce enough threat to overcome the threat im generating through damage. [The term "agro-whore" was coined for just such situations].

 

Bolster isn't the problem in HM FPs because it's misleading, but the very existence of it and its HUGE power gap in story mode operation is the problem. Their is no point in gearing at all anymore or any kind of stat distribution or being prepared, all you have to do is know a partial bit about your class and the main focus of the niche mechanic in that fight in story mode operations.

 

Keep your gear up to date. Be aware of your skill priorities in the absence of being able to preform a full proper rotation. Go with a Trinity. [1tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS - preferably one ranged], study a guide on the Flashpoint in question, and try to not have anyone under level 30 idealy] - If you keep to these perimeters there is no reason you cannot clear these HM FPs. They are perfectly doable under these conditions, in fact, they are doable even without all these present. The absence of many of these conditions is why some find it difficult.

 

I think you're confusing tacticals a bit here... no one under level 50 is allowed to enter HM FPs, and even then some of them are still impossible, or will require MASSIVE carrying of the other players. I myself at least don't have to many problems at all in HM FPs, every now and then theirs a bad batch, but most of them go very well, I just don't feel rewarded at all and the only reason I do them is for a small tick in the old achievement box, and their the only thing I haven't farmed to all hell yet. With the exception of PVP, GSF, and some HM operations, I refuse to do any PVP with such crummy combat.

 

 

I assure you, Operations are more challanging than HM FPS, the difference is that Operations have minimum requirements, FPS don't. Operations groups have all the roles present [mostly] , FPS don't. That's the real problem. People who try to do Operations notably under geared will get kicked because the requirements are in black and white, and if a player is lost, the group than seeks to fill that spot with the same role to ensure a proper role representation in the group. You get much more latitude in FPS than you'd get in any operation. The trinity requirement that used to exist in FPS and that was taken away lead to the current issues some groups are having with HM FPs.

 

Story Mode operations don't have minimum requirement operations anymore, just simply all of your slots filled up, and preferably that pertains to your class, IE no alacrity on tanks. Honestly I have never seen someone get kicked in a story mode operation, ever since 4.0 bolster came out, for low quality gear... if its the wrong type... then once... but NEVER low quality. My personal relations aside with the idea, why would honestly people kick others for having low gear requirements when all you need are slots filled? I do agree however, that due to the lack of teaching mechanics, and in general, your class in the game anymore, we do end up with a lot more bad players which causes our runs to suffer.

 

Check out the Flashpoint/Operations/Heroic section of the posting boards. You will find entire threads there calling for an increase in the difficulty of HM FPs because many feel they are too easy.

 

Most of those people calling for a buff are highly skilled HM/NIM raiders, HM FPs rank lower in difficulty so of course their going to find it easy.

 

As far as the level of gear drops. The gear level of the drops in FPs have to be less than those found in Operations because Operations are more difficult than even HM FPs.

 

I think you need to stress a little more how operations are harder than HM FPs. Ill admit I didn't really go over it either, but I did mention briefly that most mechanics can be ignored in story mode operations or don't provide to much of a large enough impact to wipe the group. IE no cleanses on DF bosses are fine, but ignoring cover by Kilran is going to result in a wipe.

 

While I don't really agree with too much of the post, I still applaud you for writing it far better than I have, with great grammar and no insults. It's civil which is something nice to see.

Edited August 7, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[peter_plankskull]

HM LI is a snooze fest because it has been nerfed to ground really hard. It's only challenging 2 manning it and yet the real difficult boss is Lorick.

 

Ill admit I wasn't around for the days HM LI was out, and I heard it was REALLY hard to truck on through back then, and heard its received TONS of nerfs since then. But I find it extremely hard you duoed it with companions, as the sentinel robot and savrip are going to completely swamp your companions....

 

HM-FP used to be worth it? When? I used to solo HM-FP before lvl-sync. And I miss doing it very much, but I don't remember them ever being what you would term as 'worth it'. It was mearly a way to extend what was possible on my own, and to help me hone my tanking skillz. Now those pointless FP's are, well..pointless. To me anyway. There is no solo hard-***** anymore. Its faceroll tacticals or almost faceroll operations. NiM seems to be the only place left for a challange...and I have to suffer others to do it...urgh..dirty

HM FPs use to be the prelude to operation gearing, and even if you had better gear, they would often drop decorations and sometimes even mounts. Now these hardly EVER, and I mean EVER drop. Yeah their were less mechanics, but each of them put a far harder burden when you failed them, which in the end, taught something of value.

Edited August 7, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[AndoEyrune]

<snip>

 

Wtb video of 4 dps doing every single hm fp boss.

[Mahoukenshi]

And not just put out sloppy chapters that take little to no development.

 

As if you had had ANY idea about how easy or hard, or how much development it actually takes to develop it

Sounds more like a childish nerd post of wailing for not being catered to your specific need. And I say that despite agreeing on the general note that an MMO should (ideally) cater to most play styles

[Khevar]

Ill admit I wasn't around for the days HM LI was out, and I heard it was REALLY hard to truck on through back then, and heard its received TONS of nerfs since then.

The biggest hurdle of vanilla HM LI was the mechanics. Here's one example:

 

The fight with LR-5, he drops energy coils (the big blue electric bubble). These days you have a telegraphing circle that indicates where it will drop. But originally, there was no indication. We learned that a non tank (probably #2 on the aggro table) would be targeted for the drop, every 12 seconds on the nose. So a group with a Sent/Mara could time the cooldown of Leap. Right before the Leap was off CD, you'd run out, drop the coil, then leap back to the boss.

 

A group with poor coordination would inevitably drop the coils in weird places around the room and you'd be ****ed. Or lose track of the 12 second interval (or not know about it) and drop the coils right where the party was fighting.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Khevar

[peter_plankskull]

The biggest hurdle of vanilla HM LI was the mechanics. Here's one example:

 

The fight with LR-5, he drops energy coils (the big blue electric bubble). These days you have a telegraphing circle that indicates where it will drop. But originally, there was no indication. We learned that a non tank (probably #2 on the aggro table) would be targeted for the drop, every 12 seconds on the nose. So a group with a Sent/Mara could time the cooldown of Leap. Right before the Leap was off CD, you'd run out, drop the coil, then leap back to the boss.

 

A group with poor coordination would inevitably drop the coils in weird places around the room and you'd be ****ed. Or lose track of the 12 second interval (or not know about it) and drop the coils right where the party was fighting.

 

Part of me wishes for this to return in some sort of NIM revamp mode in flashpoints... sounds interesting and challenging.

 

Just finished a HM LI run... great tank, fantastic healer... except the other DPS... barely knew his class and only roughly half of his rotation... never utilized literally anything... interrupts... cleanses... or defenses. He did use hold the line surprisingly on the savrip fight. Ended up with a 121k repair bill due to enrages on the bonus and 10+ stacks on lorrick. Didn't get any decorations, mounts, gear drops, or isotopes... just a lovely 18k credit stamp. What a great incentive .

[Transcendent]

savrip are going to completely swamp your companions....

 

Savrip isn't an issue for companions so long as you know when to recall them to your side (such as during the jump mechanic). Aside from that, non issue with that boss fight.

[omaan]

i still don't have proc on lost island and it's only available in Hard mode.... no one ques HM because it's not worth

[DirtyDiggler]

should just make the decor drop rate better

[Tsillah]

This is part of the larger issue in my view. The made tons of FPs but you race through them once or twice and then you don't come back to them. This is the way of most of the content in SWTOR it seems. Look at Star Forge and the Eternal Championship as recent additions. Unless you really enjoy that stuff or you want to complete the artificial achievements for each class, there is just no reason to do them ever again.

 

The reward systems are so simplistic or the rewards themselves so unsatisfying that there is no point and no replay value.

 

Why do we have something like 30 Flash Points? Because people are done with them too quickly. If we had no more than 10 and multiple playthroughs would actually reward you stuff you could be interested in like armour sets that are actually cool and in theme with the FPs or decorations that are not those crappy holo ones like EC has, then people might want to play the FPs 10 or 20 times to get enough tokens for rewards they actually want.

 

Now we have 30 FPs that give rewards that nobody really wants or cares about. It seems symptomatic but they really need to build more robust reward systems so that individual content isn't ploughed through in no time. It shouldn't be a massive grind but there's nothing wrong with getting a cool gear piece with useful stats at a token cost that requires you to run the FP 3 times per gear piece...people are willing to put in some effort as long as they feel the rewards are worth the effort.

 

All the cool stuff comes from the CM though...and that's a shame. Part of the cool stuff should be coming from inside the game.

[heythereqt]

definitely /signed

 

Especially considering the fact that now in 4.7 they've added a 220 gear vendor to the Eternal Championship rewards.

 

Unless you're trying to farm the weekly for GDC and RDC, HMFPs are almost completely useless. Add the fact that most of them are far more difficult than the bolstered SM OPs, and there is really no reason to run them. I do them purely to farm the weekly, and I still can't stomach them enough to complete the weekly more than once in three or four weeks.

 

I like the idea of having them as a DvL requirement, but with the advanced difficulty level and lackluster-at-best rewards, it's torturous trying to complete all of them. On top of that, doing them for the event doesn't qualify you for the weekly rewards, as you're only going for individual ones.

[peter_plankskull]

Savrip isn't an issue for companions so long as you know when to recall them to your side (such as during the jump mechanic). Aside from that, non issue with that boss fight.

 

I somehow managed do duo Maelstrom Prison with a level 65 smuggler who only had 208s and a 22 companion and I, a level 65 with a level 50 in full 220... ill admit I may of underestimated their healing abilities, but its the mechanics that's the problem. It takes quite awhile to recall them first of all, but the real kicker is that theirs three jumping areas and only two people. It's going to take some luck to hopefully get him jump to a pipe your both using, and not to mention the rak rot. The rak rot will be eating you guys alive the entire time unless you can magically cleanse it in time without it first infected your companion. It seems it isn't impossible, but its going to take A LOT of retries.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

As if you had had ANY idea about how easy or hard, or how much development it actually takes to develop it

Sounds more like a childish nerd post of wailing for not being catered to your specific need. And I say that despite agreeing on the general note that an MMO should (ideally) cater to most play styles

 

Considering I have a work history of audio and video editing, I probably have more of an idea then you do. So take your fanboy BS elsewhere.

[demotivator]

I somehow managed do duo Maelstrom Prison with a level 65 smuggler who only had 208s and a 22 companion and I, a level 65 with a level 50 in full 220... ill admit I may of underestimated their healing abilities, but its the mechanics that's the problem. It takes quite awhile to recall them first of all, but the real kicker is that theirs three jumping areas and only two people. It's going to take some luck to hopefully get him jump to a pipe your both using, and not to mention the rak rot. The rak rot will be eating you guys alive the entire time unless you can magically cleanse it in time without it first infected your companion. It seems it isn't impossible, but its going to take A LOT of retries.

 

In HM he jumps off a pipe faster so if you have only 2 people to channel, ignore the pipe where he first jumped on and instead use the console on the 2 other ones. By the time you set the pipes on fire he will have jumped on one of these.

Edited August 8, 2016 by demotivator

[peter_plankskull]

In HM he jumps off a pipe faster so if you have only 2 people to channel, ignore the pipe where he first jumped on and instead use the console on the 2 other ones. By the time you set the pipes on fire he will have jumped on one of these.

 

Nice workaround... maybe it is believable after all it can be duoed... but what about the bonus boss... I realize it isn't required to complete lost island... but is it doable? Do the companions linger back far enough that they get hit with the stalactites, or move fast enough to avoid being hit?

[demotivator]

Nice workaround... maybe it is believable after all it can be duoed... but what about the bonus boss... I realize it isn't required to complete lost island... but is it doable? Do the companions linger back far enough that they get hit with the stalactites, or move fast enough to avoid being hit?

 

Bonus boss would be a real pain to duo. For some reason companions are stunned for the whole duration of the fight (kinda like world bosses) so you really are down to 2 people and I don't think any combination of 2 people would be able to down it.

 

1 Tank + 1 Healer would hit enrage. 1 DPS + 1 Healer would hit enrage. 2 DPS would need heals.

Maybe 2 good rDPS, I don't know.

Edited August 8, 2016 by demotivator

[DakotaDoc]

Making HM flash points worth it (like they used to) does not mean the death of Ops like it did before. It just means the death of HM Flash points. Get over it you Ops only peeps.

Sometimes on low pop servers, or when you play in the early hours of the morning (like me) that there are not enough people to make an Ops. Should we miss out? I get in on Ops whenever I can, but to be honest I am usually (or used to be) hopping from HM FP to HM FP. It was fun, now it is worthless.

 

HM Flash Points used to mean something. The Gear was the same as the HM ops but without set bonus. Like what you could buy from the vendor.

 

Right now some HM FP bosses you wipe several times, stick to it an down the boss and get some crappy blue gear (blood hunt) Arguably harder to do then most HM Ops.

 

Fix this.

Edited August 8, 2016 by DakotaDoc

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Making HM flash points worth it (like they used to) does not mean the death of Ops like it did before. It just means the death of HM Flash points. Get over it you Ops only peeps.

Sometimes on low pop servers, or when you play in the early hours of the morning (like me) that there are not enough people to make an Ops. Should we miss out? I get in on Ops whenever I can, but to be honest I am usually (or used to be) hopping from HM FP to HM FP. It was fun, now it is worthless.

 

HM Flash Points used to mean something. The Gear was the same as the HM ops but without set bonus. Like what you could buy from the vendor.

 

Right now some HM FP bosses you wipe several times, stick to it an down the boss and get some crappy blue gear (blood hunt) Arguably harder to do then most HM Ops.

 

Fix this.

 

1st: get off your soapbox. No one has said they shouldnt provide decent gear, but like OPs, there should be a lockout.

 

2nd: HM gear was never equal to OPs without the set bonus, except for the last boss I believe.

 

3rd: there is no freaking way HM Blood Hunt is harder then the majority of HM OPs.

 

So before you get all high and mighty, try reading the thread.

Edited August 8, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[heythereqt]

1st: get off your soapbox.

 

3rd: there is no freaking way HM Blood Hunt is harder then the majority of HM OPs.

 

So before you get all high and mighty, try reading the thread.

 

The person made some good points, not sure what is so soapboxy about that.

 

And while HM FPs may not be harder than HM OPs, they are in most cases harder than SM OPs. SM OPs award more endgame gear, set bonus gear, DMCs, and more crystals/comms. Why should flashpoints that are nearly the equivalent of HM OPs give practically nothing?

 

I generally don't play during peak hours so, like the person you quoted, I have trouble finding OPs groups due to literal lack of people. Should I be awarded less for doing more challenging content purely because of the fact that there are less people involved, or because OPs have a lockout? Absolutely not. Rewards should be based on challenge, not amount of people.

[Keraejis]

It's obviously too late for this now but maybe for the next expansion (episodes?) but...

 

There's this other game that has 7 tiers of gear:

1. Game Story

2. FPs

3. HM FPs

4. Story Ops

5. Challenge Mode FPs

6. HM Ops

7. Nightmare Ops

 

I wouldn't say SWTOR should have this many but there are three different levels of set gear. In the other game's case it's each different level of Ops (Story, HM and Nightmare).

 

SWTOR has:

1. Game Story

2. Story FPs

3. Tactical FPs

4. HM FPs

5. Story Ops

6. HM Ops

 

Low level set gear could be introduced in HM FPs and a higher (better, stronger, smarter) version in the Ops.

 

Or maybe it should just be a thing that HM FPs are in fact harder than Ops and just flip the rewards. The rewards that other game gives for the Challenge mode FPs are transmog rewards that you can only get doing them. I think it uses a similar system to the data crystals but the tokens (crystals) from the Challenge modes are separate.

 

But anyway, these were just some things I saw that other games have done that might work here.

 

Edit: Forgot to split the Ops for SM and HM.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Keraejis

[JamieKirby]

Well, bioware and their stories, always ends with everyone saying 'space bar naw!' this is why i think ALL content should have a solo mode for the story, they managed it quite well for Black Talon and Esseles and the other flashpoints that they gave solo modes.

 

This is currently why i tend to avoid all group content, to avoid any negative community backlash, cause i love the conversations, even more so in a group, becuase you get different people interacting in the conversation, its a pity that people just space bar through it.

[Zarexekri]

I think something that may increase the replay value is some kind of special cosmetic gear that can only be found in each, or even just some, of the HMFPs. Increases in gear levels and such are all well and good and we can argue over the degrees of change needed, but the fact remains that once people get their shiny loot they are done and moving on.

 

As a former WoW player (yes i know, i'm some sort of heathen to be shunned), i remember hitting certain dungeons over and over and over again just for a certain piece of armor that looked a certain sort of way. And not for RP, I was a high end raider and yet i farmed for crappy low level cool looking gear. I carried horrible groups through just because i wanted that one piece. There were a lot of us that did that, and the queues stayed full even in the middle of the night.

 

This game lacks shiny awesome loot except as we can get out of cartel packs. Put some of that in game! Give us cool looking reasons to actually PLAY the game! Stop making us pay for content and let us feel like we earned it. People have begged for this all over the forums, but put some of this in HMFPs and OPs, give us an incentive to run them. I enjoy doing them, but frankly there is nothing in there i care about enough to deal with the mouthbreathers that i get stuck with. I run them all day with guildies, even the crappy ones that can barely figure out their rotations, but it would be awesome to have a shiny reason to run them with PUGs. Occasionally you get awesome people, but more often you have to struggle with the lone person who hasn't figured out their Operative is melee...and the joy of shooting things is really just not worth the annoyance.

 

Bribe me with exclusive gear styles, mounts, DECOS, hell give me a pet drop to farm for! I have 224s, idgaf about gear levels (i realize you guys do, not trying to take that away from you). Special stuff like this will keep the few raiders this game has left actually playing with other people rather than becoming more insular and resentful than we already are.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Zarexekri

[peter_plankskull]

Well now that the whole fiasco of chapter 16 is going to die down a few days, I thought its time to get back to the war on group content.

 

Bribe me with exclusive gear styles, mounts, DECOS, hell give me a pet drop to farm for! I have 224s, idgaf about gear levels (i realize you guys do, not trying to take that away from you). Special stuff like this will keep the few raiders this game has left actually playing with other people rather than becoming more insular and resentful than we already are.

 

I actually really like this idea... it encourages multiple playthroughs without offsetting the precious balance in group content without favoring one or the other and brings incentive to group content. I just hope they can actually make some good looking vanity items that doesn't come from the CM for once, and if they do, make the drop chance more than 15%. I have honestly only received two pets from runs over the years when doing flashpoints, and I would love to have more to show off or obtain in a way that isn't directly controlled by the amount of credits I have.