GSF and LvD - devs, we need you!

[Greezt]

I assume that you are too good. I mean, you don't even remember how hard it was for you to play GSF FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME.

 

In my VERY FIRST TIME, I was flying into "obstackles" every minute or even less, because the movement is still WAY TOO SENSITIVE. You don't even realize anymore that one bads move into the wrong side - and BOOM !

 

You don't even realize what PANIC can do !

Should I put forward a complaint that the bad thing are not people self-destructing on purpose,

but instead long-time player CHASING them so that they get into "panic mode" ON PURPOSE ?

Should I put forward a complaint that long-time player are exploiting the fact that NEWBIES panic so much earlier because they "can't shake him" ?

 

And even if this would exist - the dedicated player base would ignore it. "There can not be what must not be", as a saying / proverb goes. The dedicated player base already lives in its own world, not accepting any other point of view than theirs.

 

So, to sum it up, you complain about self-destructors. But you don't see the other side of the coin.

I blame the Curse Of Knowledge. Only concreteheads remain.

 

Please, take a look at my signature. Then accuse me again of farming new players.

 

I feel like you haven't read my OP at all.

 

If you are interested in learning to play GSF, there are a the guides in my sig. If you want something else, PM me. Don't accuse me of farming new players.

 

Also, what do you expect vets to do against new players? Go AFK?

 

Finally, I recommend you take a spoonful of your own medicine. Instead of justifying atrocious behavior to impose your own outlook on the world, try looking at things objectively. No, you are not always a victim of big bad people. No, not everyone is out to get you.

 

Please read my OP fully before responding.

[Newyankalt]

Meh too many players with all the best stuff vs noobs. Impossible to get yourself into wanting to play more GSF. I tried and then I leave to never touch it again for 3 months.

 

When the time comes I'm just going to Fly around, and avoid being seen get my 5 matches done with

[FlavivsAetivs]

No this gamemode isn't for everyone. It's widely considered the hardest content in the game, in fact I would consider it harder than Ranked and Progression Ops combined.

 

But intentionally throwing the match because you don't like it, because it's hard, because you want to get it over with hurts the other players. Flying around and not contributing, although still not that great, is a much more sportsmanlike alternative by comparison.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited July 8, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[ivanhedgehog]

The point of this is that it weeds out those who are intentionally self destructing from those who want to give it a legitimate run, or at least do their 5/whatever matches legitimately.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

there is nothing in the tos that says you cant suicide. just like there is nothing that says you cant practice your dance moves in a warzone. This is what comes of using an event like this to try to force people into pvp and gsf. You will see complaints when all the non raiding types show up in gf looking to fulfill that part of the grind. they wont know any of the mechanics or have any idea as to how to raid. Working As Intended.

[Newyankalt]

No this gamemode isn't for everyone. It's widely considered the hardest content in the game, in fact I would consider it harder than Ranked and Progression Ops combined.

 

But intentionally throwing the match because you don't like it, because it's hard, because you want to get it over with hurts the other players. Flying around and not contributing, although still not that great, is a much more sportsmanlike alternative by comparison.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Well I can never seem to hit anything lol usually I find myself trying for like 4 minutes then I just fly around the map and try and do fancy stuff without self destructing... A few times I led the enemy on some wild chase, that's always kind of fun

[FlavivsAetivs]

A few times I led the enemy on some wild chase, that's always kind of fun

 

Heh this is every time I queue. Except usually I have 5 aces on me and they all smash me to pieces. Lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

[Rolodome]

I self-destructed a few times accidentally when I tried it the other day lol.

 

Keep in mind it's not all intentional...

[Greezt]

I self-destructed a few times accidentally when I tried it the other day lol.

 

Keep in mind it's not all intentional...

 

It's not hard to tell the difference between someone who self destructs by mistake and someone who does it on purpose. The people who do it on purpose will finish the game with a bunch of deaths, 0 shots, 0 objective points, 0 stats. You will also see their name repeatedly in red (or green, depending on your team) appearing: "'x' self destructed".

 

When that happens every 15 seconds, you can tell it's on purpose...

[Newyankalt]

It's not hard to tell the difference between someone who self destructs by mistake and someone who does it on purpose. The people who do it on purpose will finish the game with a bunch of deaths, 0 shots, 0 objective points, 0 stats. You will also see their name repeatedly in red (or green, depending on your team) appearing: "'x' self destructed".

 

When that happens every 15 seconds, you can tell it's on purpose...

 

They could all be attempting to RP as iconic Star Wars character, Jek Porkins.

 

Not everyone wants to be Han Solo.

[FlavivsAetivs]

They could all be attempting to RP as iconic Star Wars character, Jek Porkins.

 

Not everyone wants to be Han Solo.

 

This is actually one of my GSF toon names. Jek Porkins, X-Wing extraordinaire at your service!

 

(Side note: Wedge Antilles would be a better analogy than Han Solo.)

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited July 9, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Rrusalka]

I was looking through my alts today I have a couple characters I wouldn't mind re-rolling and starting fresh for the event. But seeing their ships go back to tier 0 is a deal breaker for me. That could be months of ship and fleet req to get back to where I am at.

 

It's sad because for pvp I can just stick my gear and coms into legacy storage. No issues always there and ready to roll.

[ElZaguero]

I have yet to even finish the tutorial. I have tried four times, and I just get so confused and frustrated that I give up and bail. Call me stupid if you will, but I just can't do it. I don't even understand what it is I'm supposed to do.

 

Now, if I can't even make it through the ()*&%^& tutorial, you don't really want me in a match.

[Greezt]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=888356

 

Take a look.

[Newyankalt]

This is actually one of my GSF toon names. Jek Porkins, X-Wing extraordinaire at your service!

 

(Side note: Wedge Antilles would be a better analogy than Han Solo.)

 

~ Eudoxia

 

I was going to say Anakin tbh "He was the best star pilot in the galaxy"

[AllisonLightning]

Galactic Starfighter is actually the thing I've tried after re-subbing doing my Conquest points and actually like, when I'm feeling up to it, it can make me feel a bit sick and migraine trigger like if I'm not. Warzones, I like sometimes depending on the match but I find myself avoiding going on whenever certain ranked/fully geared veterans are on and doing unranked. (Actually write down their names and check if they're online) I'm getting better all the time and don't need some jerk offended I avoided warzones like the plague until recently. I can somewhat compensate for my terrible ping to a point (it's why I'll never touch ranked) but it's hard to get better if instead of giving you advice, someone just tells you not to queue at all.

Galactic Starfighter is difficult and a lot the guides are difficult as an outsider who just realized she needs to release her right mouse button to fire her missiles.

 

But I feel in much better control- my internet connection from Australia land isn't getting hammered between CPU spikes and I actually managed to kill someone. That made me get overconfident and I lost control twice, so maybe sometimes it's people are having trouble interacting. I remember my first match kept spamming me that I wasn't contributing despite trying my hardest to do something. How do I prioritize upgrades, anyone want to give me some advice on a side note?

[Greezt]

Galactic Starfighter is actually the thing I've tried after re-subbing doing my Conquest points and actually like, when I'm feeling up to it, it can make me feel a bit sick and migraine trigger like if I'm not. Warzones, I like sometimes depending on the match but I find myself avoiding going on whenever certain ranked/fully geared veterans are on and doing unranked. (Actually write down their names and check if they're online) I'm getting better all the time and don't need some jerk offended I avoided warzones like the plague until recently. I can somewhat compensate for my terrible ping to a point (it's why I'll never touch ranked) but it's hard to get better if instead of giving you advice, someone just tells you not to queue at all.

Galactic Starfighter is difficult and a lot the guides are difficult as an outsider who just realized she needs to release her right mouse button to fire her missiles.

 

But I feel in much better control- my internet connection from Australia land isn't getting hammered between CPU spikes and I actually managed to kill someone. That made me get overconfident and I lost control twice, so maybe sometimes it's people are having trouble interacting. I remember my first match kept spamming me that I wasn't contributing despite trying my hardest to do something. How do I prioritize upgrades, anyone want to give me some advice on a side note?

 

Since this thread has deviated from its original intent, here goes...

 

First of all, for a general build guide, check out Stasie's guide (in my signature). He has a bunch of different builds for every ship there, and all of them are good reference points until you improve enough to know what exactly you want out of your ship. You can also check out Dakhath's/Roland's guides for general beginner guides.

 

Secondly, here's some general advice: strike fighters are weak compared to any other ship in GSF. The devs have acknowledged this (although they haven't done anything to improve them), and investing time in upgrading them will generally be time wasted if you're trying to be competitive or effective. If you do anything well in a strike fighter, you can do a better job in a scout, bomber or gunship.

 

Assuming you've done your intro mission (and haven't used the 5000 fleet requisition you were granted) you now should have enough fleet req to buy either a single new ship, or both the Rampart/Razorwire (pub/imp) and the Quarrel/Mangler. The first is a Bomber that excels in guarding nodes in domination matches, while the second is a gunship widely considered the most powerful one. Since you don't start out with either gunships or bombers (unless you were subbed at GSF launch) you should take both these ships and try out different flying styles.

 

As for upgrade order, this depends on you. I usually acquire the engine maneuver that I want to use and get the second upgrade on it, get the shields I want and get the second upgrade on them, and finally (depending on the ship) either get my primary/secondary weapons or get all my secondary components to a decent place. This does not pertain to bombers.

 

The logic behind this upgrading sequence - engine maneuvers are a huge boost to survivability. A stock engine maneuver costs a lot of engine power and has a long cooldown. The first upgrade reduces the cost, and the second one reduces the cooldown. Neither of these upgrades cost a lot, but they do add up to a lot.

 

Upgrading shields is another large boost to survivability. Distortion field increases your chance to survive any blasters or railguns, charged plating increases your chance to survive mines and blasters, and directional shields when used correctly increase your chances to survive everything.

 

Overall, the cost of bringing your ship to a decent survivability place: 1500 req for engine maneuver, 1000 for first upgrade, 2500 for 2nd upgrade. Same costs for shields - so 10k ship req for a good place, and those 10k are obtainable quite easily via GSF missions alone (before counting the requisition you gain from matches).

 

Finally, Thranta Squadron is holding an event for teaching new players the game. If you are on TRE, please come along. Even if not, rolling a new toon there might prove useful to you, as well as being fun.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Greezt

[DakhathKilrathi]

Bump. This is still a big deal. Has been for years.

[merovejec]

I play GSF just to get the achievments, after that its bye bye GSF!!

[Drew_Braxton]

Are you serious? What planet are you living on? I'd like to see this evidence you mentioned. It has EVERYTHING to do with it. GSF needs a bolster system. When decked out ships can one shot you from a distance that your poor accuracy and range can't even reach them that's an obvious mechanics problem and not a player problem. fly in, get one shotted, fly in, get one shotted.....over an over until match ends. Real fun and engaging. New players are victims until they can upgrade their ships components.

 

Fully decket out ships have little to do with new players losing to seasoned ones. This is an established fact with plenty of evidence to support it. Other than that, yes. We would like to see better resources to new players. A larger player pool would be nice, and would solve many of the problems new players encounter.

 

Devs have said that they will give GSF more attention when people will play it more. People don't play it because of lack of dev attention... Thus the GSF cycle goes.

 

I don't want to derail this thread any more, though. Many problems could be easily addressed... All we need is a bit of attention.

[FlavivsAetivs]

Are you serious? What planet are you living on? I'd like to see this evidence you mentioned. It has EVERYTHING to do with it. GSF needs a bolster system. When decked out ships can one shot you from a distance that your poor accuracy and range can't even reach them that's an obvious mechanics problem and not a player problem. fly in, get one shotted, fly in, get one shotted.....over an over until match ends. Real fun and engaging. New players are victims until they can upgrade their ships components.

 

I think that's because you fail to understand how GSF works. When you start GSF, you don't get a gunship as a starter option, which has the range to hit other gunships (15,000 meters). You get a scout (with Rapid Fire Lasers, 3000m) and a Strike (with RFL and Heavy Lasers, which are 6000 meters). IMO, that is an issue and I think the Rampart and Quarrel should also be available when you first queue up.

 

Furthermore, although there are divided opinions about this, a lot of us actively discourage the fly-in-one-shot spawn camping of noobs. Just saying.

 

So let's assume it truly is a new player. Chances are when they spawn in, they will have 0 idea what the controls are, how to use cover, how to roll and turn, how to strafe, how to close the gap between you and a gunship without getting obliterated, how to capture a node, how to lock a missile, etc. Usually the first complaint I see is the jerkiness of the mouse because they don't have the finesse yet to control the ship.

 

I've seen it for myself. The ****** gear is a problem, and IMO new players should start out with at least the right components on their ships (So no Rapid Fire Lasers, no Quick Charge Shield, etc.) But they have no clue what to do, and can't learn a lot of it by intuition. If you go back a few pages you'll see the "Authentic New Player Experience" video I linked. It's a skill gap.

 

I play GSF just to get the achievments, after that its bye bye GSF!!

 

Lol it takes a lot of skill to get 100% GSF cheevs...

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited July 27, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Jamtas]

I think that's because you fail to understand how GSF works. When you start GSF, you don't get a gunship as a starter option, which has the range to hit other gunships (15,000 meters). You get a scout (with Rapid Fire Lasers, 3000m) and a Strike (with RFL and Heavy Lasers, which are 6000 meters). IMO, that is an issue and I think the Rampart and Quarrel should also be available when you first queue up.

 

Furthermore, although there are divided opinions about this, a lot of us actively discourage the fly-in-one-shot spawn camping of noobs. Just saying.

 

So let's assume it truly is a new player. Chances are when they spawn in, they will have 0 idea what the controls are, how to use cover, how to roll and turn, how to strafe, how to close the gap between you and a gunship without getting obliterated, how to capture a node, how to lock a missile, etc. Usually the first complaint I see is the jerkiness of the mouse because they don't have the finesse yet to control the ship.

 

I've seen it for myself. The ****** gear is a problem, and IMO new players should start out with at least the right components on their ships (So no Rapid Fire Lasers, no Quick Charge Shield, etc.) But they have no clue what to do, and can't learn a lot of it by intuition. If you go back a few pages you'll see the "Authentic New Player Experience" video I linked. It's a skill gap.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

It is skill and gear gap. New players are by definition new. They are learning the controls and maneuvers. That is a part of it for sure. But the gear/ship/upgrades are an issue as well. Lots of skill can overcome that to a degree, but equal skill will still lose.

 

GSF is much like pvp was when the game first launched. lvl 10's queuing up for the first time running against a lvl 50 in full pvp gear. Lesser abilities, lesser gear turned into a nightmare experience for lowbies. That's a big issue with GSF, but not sure there is a large enough playerbase to support the tiers that would be needed. Especially after the years of leaving GSF untouched and unattended by the devs. While this problem may have been solvable earlier on- I think a lot who wanted to play and like the idea just got turned off by the learning curve coupled with the frustration of being one shot over and over

Edited July 27, 2016 by Jamtas

[FlavivsAetivs]

The issue is that the matchmaker is designed to pit people against each other based on the number of matches played, with groups getting automatic priority for the next pop. Due to the small community size, the matchmaker doesn't work right.

 

A lot of people have suggested a bolster, like for PvP. But in reality any GSF bolster, if you could actually get one to work, would be highly buggy and not solve the massive skill problem.

 

GSF is by far the hardest content in the game. You have to learn the controls of a flight sim and a first person shooter at the same time, as well as the mmo components too. People are getting thrust from one totally different gamemode into another. And that doesn't count all the nuances or understanding of tactics and strategy that make the difference between someone who can survive a match and someone who can win one.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited July 27, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Anzel]

Did my five and got the HE** out of there. I'll never look back. Never play it again.

[LyraineAlei]

I actually took out another player in an assist recently for the first time. Was delighted, the controls are hard to learn easily, as said, and the tutorial in-game is not very helpful, as also said.

 

But I can be useful in the maps where you fly around to zones to capture them. I can fly in circles now and survive a couple of hits. I admit I haven't been playing consistently on one character, just running them as they pop in queue while leveling to 50s, once those are done I think I'll swap back to my usuals and start flying GSF on them. Hopefully being better at it that on these ones.

[myrdinn]

Did my five, got a few kills, several assists, and ranked fairly highly.

In all, I was impressed by the key-mouse combo...

 

...but I'm still sad my Thrustmaster is still gathering dust. Won't be back. Joy and keyboard would have been fine.