stop making excuses just because *blank* is 7 years old

[Nunchi]

your right i guess, but i still dont see how its wrong to COMPARE the 2. yes bioware has to compete with game 7 years in, but its only fair to give credit to bioware for competing with a game 7 years in the making and known as the best mmorpg ever and swtors only been out for a week.

 

in short

we can do whatever we want, please stop

[MrTijger]

Difference is this yeh, Diablo, Starcraft and WoW sell an order of magnitude better then any other games in their respective genres. That's not opinion, that's fact.

 

So does Twilight, McDonalds is the biggest food retailer. Whats your point? Because it sells, its good?

[mutharex]

Careful you'll anger the WoW Fans, being as though they THINK that blizzard had made a game from out of thin air.

 

WoW success secret is the same that for Justin Bieber or Britney Spears.....

[mutharex]

So does Twilight, McDonalds is the biggest food retailer. Whats your point? Because it sells, its good?

 

Masses prefer mediocrity, it's a well know fact

[MrTijger]

Masses prefer mediocrity, it's a well know fact

 

Exactly.

[Mephismo]

They clearly copied many things from WoW so expect more of the same later.

Hope they don’t screw there player base like WoW did with Cataclysm.

COS BELIEVE IT OR NOT MOST PLAYERS ARE NOT IN THE ELITIST 2%

[TheHauntingBard]

Funny if WOW is like MC than SWTOR must be that shady Chinese restaurant were I better not ask what most stuff is made from.

 

OP is pretty spot on SWTOR tries to compete with MMO's from 2006.

That doesn't fly, it's fun at start and it has some novelty but that will wear off.

 

 

Edit:

 

I wish they copied the good things about WOW not the bad things.

Bioware Vanilla WOWS UI was garbage why copy that

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[Zironic]

lol why dont you just bend over for them too...

 

You have a point? Or are you just trying to be hipster cool by hating on the popular?

 

Macros are the biggest conjob in the history of MMOs. The same people using macros are generally the same people complaining that healing in WoW was reduced to pushing 1 a lot.

You clearly have no idea how healing works, and healing in WoW hasn't been a 1 button job since Vanilla unless you're a Paladin who I think finally got fixed in Cata.

 

Generally most healers have access to

Big expensive heals

Small cheap heals

Emergency heals

AoE Heals

Proactive heals

 

What macros do is usually making targeting easier by for instance making the same keybind do different things depending on if you target a friend/enemy or allowing you to cast by clicking raid frames instead of keybinds.

 

The AH in SWTOR actually works. Yes it does. Sure its slightly more complicated, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work. You may have to think a little more than the "click and sell" mentality of other MMOs.

The AH in SWTOR is pure crap, and trying to defend it makes you look dimwitted.

 

having to heal the "hard way"? seriously. If you want a mindless game or something to do while you watch TV eps, then maybe other MMOs are for you.

The game allowing me to do what I want to do, rather then having me fight the UI instead then the actual content, is not 'mindless'.

The big give away though is the emphatic no to a LFD tool. This and all the above tells me that these things werent forgotten or overlooked, this is a deliberate attempt by Bioware to attract a different audience.

While the 'low priority' stance on LFD is explicit, most of the above issues are simply incompetence or oversight.

ironically perhaps, people who actually played vanilla wow - as opposed to people who just say that they did - and enjoyed it that way, will probably enjoy this variant of MMO most of all.

No one with a functional memory thinks that vanilla wow was anything to remember fondly.

 

Half the classes were literally worthless, rogues could literally solo any other class naked with lvl 1 weapons, the first raid instance took ages to clear, not because the bosses were any hard, because they were all trivial tank and spank fights, but because it had more trash then you could ever imagine.

 

The raid instances were so dull and unimaginative that it was common for people to just afk in the middle of raids and go on /follow, and it would be hard to notice as they'd just blend into the 40 man rampage.

 

In order to get PvP gear you had to literally be on vacation or jobless as you'd have to play for 10-18 hours a day for weeks to grind the correct rank, since only 1 player on each server could have the rank at a time.

 

So does Twilight, McDonalds is the biggest food retailer. Whats your point? Because it sells, its good?

 

Can you take a guess at why the other food retailers that sell food at the same price as McDonalds are not nearly as successful? SWTOR is not the 5 star restaurant here, they're the kebab stand at the corner of the slums.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[Sakushi]

You have a point? Or are you just trying to be hipster cool by hating on the popular?

 

 

There is a Point. but hating on the popular? that sounds just what you are doing right now.

[Zironic]

There is a Point. but hating on the popular? that sounds just what you are doing right now.

 

No, I'm pointing out that the reality of the situation is that SWTOR is competing against a well established fully featured game. Consumers are not charity, they will not subscribe based on promises to become fully featured in the future, they subscribe based on their enjoyment in the present.

 

I also pointed out that originality has never been the selling point of Blizzard games, and I'm rather puzzled as to why certain people think pointing out that their unoriginal is some kind of genius debating argument.

 

I'll also take a moment to point out that I'm not playing any Blizzard game at present, the reason for this is quite simple, as I've consumed most of the content that Blizzard has put out, the content of SWTOR wins out over the features of WoW. However once I've consumed SWTOR's content, then the lack of features means I'll have no reason to subscribe.

 

At that point I'll just have to go back to playing League of Legends or whatever until the next featureless MMO is released.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[Carnerous]

Trolls and wowkidies should understand that they aren't BW market, they know wowkiddies will come over and most of them won't be able to cope and go back to something more mediocre and familiar. So they aren't trying to appeal to you, they are going for a different market. People with taste for example. We can't all like crap like flies do!

 

lolwhat

[TheHauntingBard]

You would assume that when you copy so much from WOW you actually want to tap into that market.

Even more when you actually state that.

 

The best part is the people that keep bashing WOW and calling others WOW kiddies are the WOW kiddies.

You support every new MMO as long as it can take on the big bad WOW because you just got to get rid of all that anger.

You follow a game like a zealot until you find a new game to cheer for and you will leave this one just as fast.

 

You cling to weak arguments as you keep bashing that game as if it stole your children.

Hate to bring it to you kids but you are playing a game similar to WOW.

The world is either black or white behaviour is childish right there.

 

The SWTOR community isn't better neither is SWTOR so much different than WOW.

In fact you're the worst type of person this community has to offer.

 

But hey if you had some common sense you would have realized that.

Guess our loss for having to put up with you on these forum.

Edited December 28, 2011 by TheHauntingBard

[Zironic]

The best part is the people that keep bashing WOW and calling others WOW kiddies are the WOW kiddies.

You support every new MMO as long as it can take on the big bad WOW because you just got to get rid of all that anger.

You follow a game like a zealot until you find a new game to cheer for and you will leave this one just as fast.

 

It's sorta funny because all the

"This game lacks features on purpose, vanilla wow was the bestest and [developer] clearly agrees with me and did it on purpose and now [game] will be super-successful just because of that!!!!"

posts are word-by-word identical from almost all MMO's that have launched past 6 years. Clearly they're not very sincere, or the posters would have stayed with all the countless featureless MMO's that have been launched.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[StealthNerf]

There's no reason for SWTOR to have all the features of WoW.

 

WoW is the product of refinement for its paying customers.

 

SWTOR will be refined in terms of what its customers want.

Edited December 28, 2011 by StealthNerf

[Zironic]

There's no reason for SWTOR to have all the features of WoW.

 

WoW is the product of refinement for its paying customers.

 

SWTOR doesn't have those exact customers, mostly, so copying WoW makes no sense.

 

Well, regardless of the exact nature of your customers, some features are just common sense. Like an Auction House that is more fun to use then pulling out your teeth without anaesthetic.

[dozerking]

I'm not saying that TOr is perfect. far from it. but neither is WoW. people put WoW on some sort of pedestal when in reality its just a popular game, just like Twilight is a popular book. if you like it, more power to you. I used to before they changed their direction so much I no longer enjoyed any aspect of the game.

 

and I will say it again, you CANNOT count a modding community that had 7 YEARS to develop when you compare WoW to a game that was JUST released. not to mention.. what percentage of WoW players actually plays with mods? not as many as you think. so those players deal with raw UI.

 

and yeah, Blizzard very much "borrows" from well everyone. they just have a great talent for refining raw ideas. though they have been stumbling lately.

 

Warcraft? guess what inspired them, take a wild guess. I'll give you a hint - another strategy game with orcs and humans, that got its start in pen and paper and has a franchise that's still going strong today. Star craft is not particularly original either and WoW? ever heard of Everquest?

 

 

lastly. when regular people pick a game to play? they pick based on content. they pick based on what interests them, based on the art style they enjoy, the setting, etc. gameplay is secondary. and guess what? not everyone likes cartoon style of WoW. not everyone is into faux medieval with hints of steampunk fantasy. some people prefer more traditional settings like DnD or Lord of the rings. some prefer a whimsical style and look of guild wars. some people like a more hard sci-fi feel of Eve. some prefer the post apocalyptic look and feel of fallen earth. some like super heroes. they don't care how "smooth" WoW is or how many addons it has available. if the game doesn't interest them, they are not going to play it. unlike WoW tourists apparently, you are tired of their addiction but cannot give it up, so they keep looking for replacements, but naturally the only replacement that would work is another WoW. so they rage and complain and then slink back.

 

but WoW is not the only game on the market, just like Twilight is not the only series of vampire books for young adults. its merely the best known. and bioware would be wise to remember that WoW tourists come and go, but core players stay as long as you let them. and experience shows that making games more like WoW? doesn't end well.

 

I'm used to bioware games. I'm used to their feel, how they play. so are plenty of other people who bought this game NOT becasue they wanted a break from WoW, but becasue they like bioware games and becasue they loved KOTOR.

 

but what does it have to do with gameplay and UI, you ask? very little. in other words, the priority is to fix actually bugs and actual issues before refining UI or even thinking about so called "standard features" becasue for a lot of people? the chunkiness of UI or inability to be thrown into group automatically is barely a blip on a radar.

 

don't make mistake of thinking that forum posters represent actual majority of players. they NEVER do.

 

edited. funny story about unclickable nodes. guess what WoW used to have in abundance with Cata launch? take a wild guess. Cata was what.. third expansion? how long was that game out before? how experience Blizzard is. and yet.. there you have it unclickable, invisible nodes, that if you are lucky, are merely stuck in a ground JUST under the surface. took them months to fix.

 

Congratulations on talking in circles. You're very preachy I must say, lol. I'm 34 years old and have been gaming since I was a kid. No need to explain commonalities.

 

Starcraft borrows from Warhammer, yes, and Halo borrowed from Starcraft, the trilogy of races. Who cares, it's common knowledge to people in our mid/late 30's. Doesn't take away from one of the best developers we have on the planet. Mass Effect borrows heavily from Star Trek, who cares, It's fantastic. Dragon Age from LotR, etc. etc.

[TheHauntingBard]

It's sorta funny because all the

"This game lacks features on purpose, vanilla wow was the bestest and [developer] clearly agrees with me and did it on purpose and now [game] will be super-successful just because of that!!!!"

posts are word-by-word identical from almost all MMO's that have launched past 6 years. Clearly they're not very sincere, or the posters would have stayed with all the countless featureless MMO's that have been launched.

 

I've seen that so many times , I actually wish they would stay with those MMO's.

Truth is Vanilla was pretty good but that was six years ago.

Time moves on and so do games.

Blizzard came up with a lot of good ideas, some worked others not but they tried.

They learn and well you would expect other developers to learn.

 

There are a lot of old games I like , once in a while I replay them.

Think of dune 2 one of the first RTS games.

But I wouldn't want the industry to use the standards that where acceptable because of technological limitations from 15-20 years ago.

 

A RTS now where you can click 1 unit at the time, no thanks.

Same is with mmo's, people are being nostalgic , I am pretty sure most of them disliked some features in their old favorite game.

[the_woookie]

You clearly have no idea how healing works, and healing in WoW hasn't been a 1 button job since Vanilla unless you're a Paladin who I think finally got fixed in Cata.

 

Guess again chief. ive leveled every class to at least 80 - 6 of them to 85 - and began playing shortly after release.

 

What macros do is usually making targeting easier by for instance making the same keybind do different things depending on if you target a friend/enemy or allowing you to cast by clicking raid frames instead of keybinds.

 

Im well aware of what macros do. If the game was meant to have macros, theyd be there.

 

The AH in SWTOR is pure crap, and trying to defend it makes you look dimwitted.

 

One mans experience differs to anothers. Insulting them for that is not a mark of high intelligence.

 

The game allowing me to do what I want to do, rather then having me fight the UI instead then the actual content, is not 'mindless'.

 

You say tomato, I say something else.

 

While the 'low priority' stance on LFD is explicit, most of the above issues are simply incompetence or oversight.

 

And im suggesting it might be otherwise. Show me anywhere a developere says otherwise. Oh thats right you cant. Not every game has to cater to the masses.

 

No one with a functional memory thinks that vanilla wow was anything to remember fondly.

 

You are unbelievably wrong here.

 

Half the classes were literally worthless, rogues could literally solo any other class naked with lvl 1 weapons, the first raid instance took ages to clear, not because the bosses were any hard, because they were all trivial tank and spank fights, but because it had more trash then you could ever imagine.

 

Didnt suggest the game was perfect, but the content, UI and AH, as wel as questing and other areas were perfecrtly functional and popular at that. The millions didnt come out of nowhere in wrath and cataclysm you know.

 

The raid instances were so dull and unimaginative that it was common for people to just afk in the middle of raids and go on /follow, and it would be hard to notice as they'd just blend into the 40 man rampage.

 

In order to get PvP gear you had to literally be on vacation or jobless as you'd have to play for 10-18 hours a day for weeks to grind the correct rank, since only 1 player on each server could have the rank at a time.

 

Sure if you wanted to by a Grand Marshal or High Warlord you did, but to get PVP gear was entirely possible without the apparent lifelessness you ascribe to it. To get epic PVP gear wasnt hard at all.

 

Can you take a guess at why the other food retailers that sell food at the same price as McDonalds are not nearly as successful? SWTOR is not the 5 star restaurant here, they're the kebab stand at the corner of the slums.

 

You'll notice that other resellers - noticeably Burger King (Hungry Jacks in Aus) are priced the same and are immensely successful despite not having the same Mc Menu and not having the same foods and services. SWTOR has the potential to be the Burger king here - if you'll actually let it get past its first week in existence. Bad analogies are bad.

Edited December 28, 2011 by the_woookie

[Ailerist]

This forum is retarded. MMOs have been out for years. Infact, many of the people who designed this have played the previous MMOs, and its no secret to anyone who has played an mmo before how F'd you become when you put your money into this game or any MMO. How many of you before swtor saw these maints where its, it'll be up when its up? How many of you have beta tested only to see the product hit the shelf and play it with the bugs still there? The list could go on forever. Sadly, this is a new age in buisness as well as a new age in gaming sort to speak. If Swtor was a hard copy game, you'd best believe all these bugs would be ironed out. You'd best believe customer service wouldnt hang up on them after a 5 hour 15 minute wait. Some of you out there defend the idea that, its a new game, new platform, some of you say, we've seen enough. I for one, have seen enough. When wow vanilla came out it was a nightmare, and in comparison to swtor it was heaven on earth. However, it is a decade later. We live in a software revolution compared to what we were at a decade ago. Many of us have seen the rise and fall of the mmos over the years, and while many things change, one fact remains the same. They are very, very, very slow to improve their programming. As stated above, if call of duty black ops was released with as many bugs as swtor was, people would be in a uprage. They would be right to feel so, and we are right to feel so. Just because you can go back into the programming and change it, and manipulate it, doesn't give the corporate company the pass to go ahead and pass a inferior product to us. Dear bioware, we are living in a recession, all of us, had to sacrifice something to buy this game, and then a little more when you required our credit card or 2x that amount for a time card. Dear bioware, you still have not fixed 90% of the bugs I personally delivered to you during beta. Dear bioware, think of the euro's you punch over during your maintenance. My list is long, and I assure you whoever is reading this oblique statement is in agreement. I own a property maintenance business, and due to the hi regulations on work we operate on a wide scale but low level of industry. In a recession we have expanded and hired more people but sadly at a lessor wage. My product is a brand name in my part of the world, whether it be the lime green of lawns in droughts, de-iced driveways during the winter, fruitful trees, warrantied roofs beyond the product recommendation, as a owner I have overcome many challenges to provide for myself. Many others depend on my business for their lively income. If I ran my company like any of you mmo giants out there have, I would be in a *********** homeless shelter or being indicted or have a warrant out for my arrest. I understand programming is a different sauce to property maintenance, totally different logistics to consider. However, in a given 8 hour day no matter the new england weather we mange over 392 different commercial and residential properties with a staff of 16 people with our own trucks, equipment, and labor. Everyday we head home, 8 hours done, 392 properties in 3 states done with 16 people. We are always there for our customers, even when the state shuts down. Every day, who ever is the forum moderator here needs to fax this statement in to your higher ups, because in a few years I get to inherit a few million, and I'd be glad to fund a mmo that does it right.

[Zironic]

Im well aware of what macros do. If the game was meant to have macros, theyd be there.

They'd be here if Bioware hadn't blown the entire budget on Voice acting. UI modifications/Macros are on their high priority list based on Developer comments.

 

One mans experience differs to anothers. Insulting them for that is not a mark of high intelligence.

I'm saying you look bad, really bad, just stop, it's painful to watch you try to defend going through 2 nested submenus only to get a really badly filtered search for what you're interested in with no ability to sort by individual price (rather then stack).

You say tomato, I say something else.

You say that fighting the UI is enjoyable, I say that you're a dirty pervert.

 

 

 

And im suggesting it might be otherwise. Show me anywhere a developere says otherwise. Oh thats right you cant. Not every game has to cater to the masses.

By definition they do, if they want to get their money back. I'm sure they could do a game for pure artistry and just take the loss, but Bioware isn't that kind of company.

 

And by the way, this is their exact position, notice that it's nothing like yours:

Stephen Reid:

 

We're aware of this desire, but we actually believe that finding others on the same planet as you encourages social interaction a bit more than a general 'group finder'. We're not saying it'll never, ever happen but again, not high priority right now.

You are unbelievably wrong here.

I'm not wrong, I'm just acknowledging that your memory is dysfunctional.

 

 

 

Didnt suggest the game was perfect, but the content, UI and AH, as wel as questing and other areas were perfecrtly functional and popular at that. The millions didnt come out of nowhere in wrath and cataclysm you know.

It was fun, and certainly much better then any other MMO's at the time, but by the standards of Cataclysm the UI, AH and Quests were pathetic.

 

 

You'll notice that other resellers - noticeably Burger King (Hungry Jacks in Aus) are priced the same and are immensely successful despite not having the same Mc Menu and not having the same foods and services. SWTOR has the potential to be the Burger king here - if you'll actually let it get past its first week in existence. Bad analogies are bad.

 

You're hilarious. Though really the hamburger analogy won't take us anywhere useful, the large chains are popular largely due to their good enough taste and the consistency from one chain location to the next, so people know what product they're going to get when they pay for the food rather then gamble on some local place.

 

Twilight is popular because it allows girls to place themselves into a common fantasy, where they're in the middle of a harem of pretty hunks.

 

WoW is however popular because it's a game that's easy to get into, goes out of its way not to punish its players and tries to make it as easy as possible for anyone to enjoy all the content they've put into it while at the same time has spent years refining the endgame PvP and PvE mechanics to make them enjoyable and challenging.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[Sakushi]

This forum is retarded. MMOs have been out for years. Infact, many of the people who designed this have played the previous MMOs, and its no secret to anyone who has played an mmo before how F'd you become when you put your money into this game or any MMO. How many of you before swtor saw these maints where its, it'll be up when its up? How many of you have beta tested only to see the product hit the shelf and play it with the bugs still there? The list could go on forever. Sadly, this is a new age in buisness as well as a new age in gaming sort to speak. If Swtor was a hard copy game, you'd best believe all these bugs would be ironed out. You'd best believe customer service wouldnt hang up on them after a 5 hour 15 minute wait. Some of you out there defend the idea that, its a new game, new platform, some of you say, we've seen enough. I for one, have seen enough. When wow vanilla came out it was a nightmare, and in comparison to swtor it was heaven on earth. However, it is a decade later. We live in a software revolution compared to what we were at a decade ago. Many of us have seen the rise and fall of the mmos over the years, and while many things change, one fact remains the same. They are very, very, very slow to improve their programming. As stated above, if call of duty black ops was released with as many bugs as swtor was, people would be in a uprage. They would be right to feel so, and we are right to feel so. Just because you can go back into the programming and change it, and manipulate it, doesn't give the corporate company the pass to go ahead and pass a inferior product to us. Dear bioware, we are living in a recession, all of us, had to sacrifice something to buy this game, and then a little more when you required our credit card or 2x that amount for a time card. Dear bioware, you still have not fixed 90% of the bugs I personally delivered to you during beta. Dear bioware, think of the euro's you punch over during your maintenance. My list is long, and I assure you whoever is reading this oblique statement is in agreement. I own a property maintenance business, and due to the hi regulations on work we operate on a wide scale but low level of industry. In a recession we have expanded and hired more people but sadly at a lessor wage. My product is a brand name in my part of the world, whether it be the lime green of lawns in droughts, de-iced driveways during the winter, fruitful trees, warrantied roofs beyond the product recommendation, as a owner I have overcome many challenges to provide for myself. Many others depend on my business for their lively income. If I ran my company like any of you mmo giants out there have, I would be in a *********** homeless shelter or being indicted or have a warrant out for my arrest. I understand programming is a different sauce to property maintenance, totally different logistics to consider. However, in a given 8 hour day no matter the new england weather we mange over 392 different commercial and residential properties with a staff of 16 people with our own trucks, equipment, and labor. Everyday we head home, 8 hours done, 392 properties in 3 states done with 16 people. We are always there for our customers, even when the state shuts down. Every day, who ever is the forum moderator here needs to fax this statement in to your higher ups, because in a few years I get to inherit a few million, and I'd be glad to fund a mmo that does it right.

 

MY EYES MY EYES!!!!!

Where ARE THE PARAGRAPHS

[Ailerist]

Congratulations on talking in circles. You're very preachy I must say, lol. I'm 34 years old and have been gaming since I was a kid. No need to explain commonalities.

 

Starcraft borrows from Warhammer, yes, and Halo borrowed from Starcraft, the trilogy of races. Who cares, it's common knowledge to people in our mid/late 30's. Doesn't take away from one of the best developers we have on the planet. Mass Effect borrows heavily from Star Trek, who cares, It's fantastic. Dragon Age from LotR, etc. etc.

 

Another sad statement from another tool of a credit card number. Us oldies have seen it all, only the ones smart enough to know their being consistantly dicked every game are startingto post

[Zironic]

MY EYES MY EYES!!!!!

Where ARE THE PARAGRAPHS

 

It burrnnnnnns ussssss!

[CapuchinSeven]

Yeah a lot of polls back before EGA had a large group of people say they were here just because it was Star Wars and Bioware.

 

Which is pretty much the only reason why WoW ever took off in the way it did, it wasn't MMO players playing it. If it had been, given its subscriber numbers, every other MMO would have shut down.

 

People playing WoW were the b.net hard kiddies that came along because it was the next big Blizzard thing, these are not the people that plague forums with posts like the OPs. WoW, great for Blizzard, awful for MMOs.

[Zironic]

Which is pretty much the only reason why WoW ever took off in the way it did, it wasn't MMO players playing it. If it had been, given its subscriber numbers, every other MMO would have shut down.

 

People playing WoW were the b.net hard kiddies that came along because it was the next big Blizzard thing, these are not the people that plague forums with posts like the OPs. WoW, great for Blizzard, awful for MMOs.

 

Well yes. Blizzard pulled millions of non-mmo gamers into the MMO market. I wouldn't be surprised if this game pulled a number of RPG players into the MMO market as well.

 

However the 'b.net kiddies' as you call them, are not mindless drones, they do make demands out of the games they play. If you've ever looked at the WoW forums it's not like the place is full of religious pro-Blizzard chanting.