stop making excuses just because *blank* is 7 years old

[SuperomegaOP]

Seriously... I'm tired of seeing people say "Oh you can't compare X to X because *blank* has had more time in development."

 

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Bioware must compete with the leading game in the industry even if that has had a 7+ years head start.

 

Bioware has to work over time to at-least be on par with that game which has had plenty of time to develop into the MMO that it is now

 

you cant give Bioware that excuse because new MMO players won't.

 

Just a shortened version of what i wanted to say... Too tired right now.

Edited December 28, 2011 by SuperomegaOP

[terryn]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

[twisted_and_mean]

Yeah, I totally agree that we shouldn't compare SWTOR with WoW at launch. Let's compare it with Pacman at launch. It sure gets a lot more bonus points this way.

 

But seriously, no one makes games in vacuum. If you're making a mumorpeger, you're expected to have a look at what's already on the market. And if you deliver a product that is not on par with others, you can't just ask your customers to wait for seven years until it gets better.

Edited December 28, 2011 by twisted_and_mean

[SuperomegaOP]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

thats exactly why wow is still successful

[Skoobie]

I would say that new MMO players that are here, are here because this game is Star Wars...not because they are out searching for the "better" MMO.

 

The majority of them probably don't give a rat's behind about any other MMO's.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Skoobie

[Tarka]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

Manufacturers of cars have to ensure that their newest products compete with other products in todays market. As do other manufacturers in other markets. MMO's are really no different in this regard. For instance, you don't see Ferrari launching a car and saying "Well it's built to compete with Henry Ford's first car". No, you see it with all the "mod cons" for that era.

 

Now sure, when it comes to the amount of actual content, then perhaps it could be argued to some degree that such amounts of content found in older games cannot be offered at launch.

 

However, that reasoning is not an all-encompassing justification for the entire current state of the game. There are parts of this game that need attention and this game should have launched with them in the required state. Such as a more flexible UI system in general, a more intuitive and functional UI system for the GTN, and other elements.

 

These things should be working sufficiently well at launch, regardless of how good or bad they were in other MMO's.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[SuperomegaOP]

I would say that new MMO players that are here, are here because this game is Star Wars...not because they are out searching for the "better" MMO.

 

The majority of them probably don't give a rat's behind about any other MMO's.

 

Yeah a lot of polls back before EGA had a large group of people say they were here just because it was Star Wars and Bioware.

Edited December 28, 2011 by SuperomegaOP

[barnnabis]

First off , im willing to bet the people playing swtor are not first time mmo players. Wow was a mess at its release , no where near the polish that some of the latest mmo's have launched with.

 

Second of all , most mmo players that have been around since before wow , think wow is crap, it was crap 7 years ago and its still crap. These games are not even mmo's in the true sence, all they are is rpg's with chat boxes thanks to wow.

 

To compare them at launch , this game blows wow away...we will have to wait 7 years to see how it stacks up against the worlds biggest rpg with a chat box.

Edited December 28, 2011 by barnnabis

[StormDragonlord]

Manufacturers of cars have to ensure that their newest products compete with other products in todays market. As do other manufacturers in other markets. MMO's are really no different in this regard.

 

For instance, you don't see Ferrari launching a car and saying "Well it's built to compete with Henry Ford's first car". No, you see it with all the "mod cons" for that era.

 

Sure, when it comes to the extent of actual content, then perhaps it could be argued that such level of content cannot be acheived at launch. However, that reasoning doesn't apply to everything (e.g. the UI, the state of the GTN UI, etc, etc). There are parts of this game that need attention and this game should have launched with them in the required state.

 

This. When someone says "on par" with WoW they don't mean content, because that is impossible unless they stay in development status for 10 years. They are talking about basic functions such as server-only LFG, customizable UI, a good GTN and of course the most important and biggest of all, character responsiveness and no ability delay. Yet SW:TOR launched with many functions that could be considered a staple yet are not in.

[Scar]

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Um, no they aren't (even with "better" being subjective).

 

If they are new, then obviously what has been put out there hasn't gotten them to play an MMOG, so why would it need everything that hasn't already gotten them to play in the first place?

[Tarka]

First off , im willing to bet the people playing swtor are not first time mmo players. Wow was a mess at its release , no where near the polish that same of the latest mmo's have launched with.

 

Whilst true, WoW wasn't under the same kind of pressure that MMO launches are under today. There was less heavy competition back in 2004.

 

Second of all , most mmo players that have been around since before wow , think wow is crap, it was crap 7 years ago and its still crap. These games are not even moo's in the true sence, all they are is rpg's with chat boxes thanks to wow.

 

Well, I can empathise to a point there. One could argue that certain "features" that used to be strongly associated with MMORPG's have been distilled down to the point of absurd simplicity. Thus losing any reason they had to exist in the first place in certain MMO's.

 

To compare them at launch , this game blows wow away...we will have to wait 7 years to see how it stacks up against the worlds biggest rpg with a chat box.

 

There's no doubt that SWTOR is better in some respects, but is not so great in others. And the general public really won't wait for 7 years to find out if Bioware deal with them.

[cristianvs]

I totaly agree with OP!

 

I also think that the fact that wow has had more expansions dosent matter. What matters is what I can do in the game right now.

 

However I think TOR has done a good job so far... some things missing but the excitement over playing the game is high enough to keep me waiting for some miinor bug fixes.

 

Also,. Iäve played mmos since before wow and i Love wow... It's just that I've played that game for 7 years and yes Im getting a bit bored... But that dosent make it anything lesss than an awesome game (that TOR is borrowing from very freely )

[LordJestR]

It's just business sense.

 

They can delay the game for a few more months to add in the polish that a 7 year old game has or they can release a perfectly playable game and start charging ppl.

 

Honestly, since EA is involved, I am not surprised, seeing as they do the same thing for single player games too.

[Tarka]

It's just business sense.

 

They can delay the game for a few more months to add in the polish that a 7 year old game has or they can release a perfectly playable game and start charging ppl.

 

Honestly, since EA is involved, I am not surprised, seeing as they do the same thing for single player games too.

 

As much as I think there are areas of this game that definately need attention, I gotta admit that purely from a general perspective, the state of the actual game is better than many others have been at launch.

 

However, that certainly doesn't mean that Bioware should just rest on their laurels and use that as an excuse to not deal with the areas of the game that need attention. However the current state of the game does actually help them start off on a good footing.

[Arzhanin]

Hey there folks,

 

We went ahead and did a bit of maintenance in this thread and removed a few posts.

 

As a gentle reminder, we do ask that even if you disagree with someone's viewpoint, that you refrain from insults and derogatory commentary as this does not help the discussion. Please be constructive in your criticisms. Thanks!

[pezit]

Yes they have to compete with WoW but they also have to pick their battles because they simply cannot compete in terms of content. Bioware put a lot of their focus on the leveling experience with good story and voice acting, so endgame is a bit behind WoW and so is the polish, just as expected unless you have unreasonable expectations which many people seem to have.

[Tasburath]

thats exactly why wow is still successful

 

Are you serious?

 

Wow is nothing compared to what it used to be. The only reason they can claim 10 million subscribers is everyone plays for free up to level 20, so all of their accounts remain active even if the player cancels their sub.

 

I'll bet you that that their paid subscriptions have been dropping in huge chunks for quite some time now.

[Jarlathe]

As much as I think there are areas of this game that definately need attention, I gotta admit that purely from a general perspective, the state of the actual game is better than many others have been at launch.

 

However, that certainly doesn't mean that Bioware should just rest on their laurels and use that as an excuse to not deal with the areas of the game that need attention. However the current state of the game does actually help them start off on a good footing.

 

This is my feeling pretty much. It's not a lack of content, because for the most part, there is plenty. It's about the features that weren't there at launch, and that's were the problem lies. I was having a conversation with a guildie as to why I most likely won't renew after my 30 days have expired. Here are the major points.

 

For me, the biggest things that I found lacking were:

 

a) The worlds are way to static. Everything from the friendly/neutral mobs standing still and not moving an inch, to the same groups of trash mobs not differing, nor moving anywhere. Add in the lack of little touches missing (bird, critters and other things that make a world a living world).

 

b) The AH. It's a clusterfart. From not being able to search, to posting being a pain in the arse it really ruins it for me. I love playing the AH, it's a huge part of the game for me. In it's current state you can't find turds, nevermind actually making any credits from it.

 

c) The total lack of macros. This is a huge killer for me. I went and did some PvP and it was a clusterfart. Can't heal anybody without clicking on them, then selecting a spell? This isn't 1998 anymore. Macros and mouseover/modifiers should have been in the shipped game. Hell, at level 32 I have to many spells for my actionbars as it is, a modifier would have fixed that.

 

d) Questing. It's good, very good, but it's very, very, very linear. I'm trying a JK (my main is a sage) and every quest, except for my class quest, is the same. I can't even go to a different world to quest as there isn't one. They should have had two zones to quest in.

 

f) Lack of communication from EA/Bioware about bugs/features and fixes being put into the game. Timelines would help people decide whether or not they want to say. This is a project, don't tell me you don't have timelines already.

 

g) Fan base. Thought WoW fan base was bad? Those people have nothing on SW's fans. They are the most vile scum I've ever seen in an online community. The game has been out a week and they are this bad? I posted a couple of bugs I found on the forums and got flamed to no end, told to go back to WoW. My complaints have nothing to do with WoW. I'm just trying to point out what I feel is missing from the game for me.

 

As I said, the game is very good, but in the end it's just KOTOR3 with co-op support. /shrug.

[Chromiie]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

No but no chat bubbles, scalable UI, combat log and choosing the warzone I wanna do doesn't seem like to much to ask for.

[Almghty_gir]

i think the important thing to remember here is that there's a very clear difference between the following:

 

• Development time.
  
• Time in live development.
  

 

the distinction is this. development time is prior to a game launching. it's the time where the core foundations of the game are made and, unless they have the same number of beta testers as actual live players, it will be limited somewhat in scope.

time in live development however is different, due to the exponentially larger playerbase and equally importantly, income. time in live development is where the game truly begins to take shape and become "what it was meant to be", as more and more players voice opinions and help fund the developers, the developers get a clearer idea of what direction the game needs to take.

 

let's face it, World of Warcraft is the gold standard (whether we like it or not) of MMO's. any new mmo will instantly be compared to it, rightly or wrongly, because of just how massive it's become.

 

but it's also important to remember that WoW took around 5 years to develop BEFORE it went live, and has since had what... 7 years or so of active time in live development, where its income has grown and grown along with its playerbase and therefor its scope and direction have changed along with it.

 

SWTOR, whether you like it or not, is in its infancy still. yes there are things we're all used to in other games (i want dual targeting... like, yesterday damnit!), and things that we take for granted as "standard" features.

 

but correct me if i'm wrong when i say this: the game runs, it's functional, there is nothing you physically cannot do in the game (aside from the level 50 BH quest due to a bug?). which means that from now on, the game can truly develop and move forward, and hopefully become something even more impressive than it already is (in my eyes) or become just as impressive as other games people have played, loved, and left.

 

my $0.02.

[Tarka]

a) The worlds are way to static.

b) The AH.

c) The total lack of macros.

 

no chat bubbles, scalable UI, combat log and choosing the warzone I wanna do doesn't seem like to much to ask for.

 

I agree that the above are just SOME of the things that should be implmented / functioning correctly at launch. Along with:

 

• More UI customisation / functionality
  
• A guild panel that actually works (i.e. doesn't "lose" / forget members).
  

 

Nowhere are we mentioning actual content.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[Kindara]

Seriously... I'm tired of seeing people say "Oh you can't compare X to X because *blank* has had more time in development."

 

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Bioware must compete with the leading game in the industry even if that has had a 7+ years head start.

 

Bioware has to work over time to at-least be on par with that game which has had plenty of time to develop into the MMO that it is now

 

you cant give Bioware that excuse because new MMO players won't.

 

Just a shortened version of what i wanted to say... Too tired right now.

 

I guess I picked the Better MMO then because WoW fraking Suxs. Its frigging easy mode for babies about to become even MORE easy mode with a side of Pokemon ontop to attract even more babies. Pandas?! fraking Pandas how does that make a game better.

 

Honestly most MMO players that are truely New have no idea about X game anyway because X game isn't on their radar the only people doing comparisions are people who have played Game X and are likely excited for Pandas.

 

All MMOs have issues..WoW has tons still to this day. It just was a whole lot less terrible than the competition at the time named Everquest 2.

 

Can I have all the whiners stuff because there seems to be alot of them at the launch of every MMO or ever MMO expansion. Someone always hates something or Expects more than thats realistically possible with a certain feasible time frame. Sometimes Stuff gets Sidelined, cut, or left out in order to meet deadlines so the Game doesn't Sink to the bottom of the ocean in debt like many games have in the past.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kindara

[Boesmith]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

This is 2011, get your **** together or you sink, and that's what this game did, sunk.

[SuperomegaOP]

anyway...

 

Not only wow but rift has many things that i thought had a lot going for it and I think you guys could improve on greatly...

 

Its cool that you guys made up many of your own ideas to put in this game but thats not always a good thing...

 

There are some ideas in your game that could certainly use improvement and some that just need to be taken off the drawing board for good.

 

Even though there are other aspects in this game that are fine for the moment they will still need an improvement once in awhile or other companions will improve on those aspects sooner or later.

 

You always want to be the first to introduce that cool new thing in an mmo.

[JonnyBigBoss]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

Amen. OP has no idea how games are developed.

 

Yay, another whining thread.