Heroic payout nerf

[richiesilva]

 

...

 

Maybe you should title all your chapters "DECEPTION"? Just a thought.

 

#SWEXIT

 

This should be a thing.

[Lakemine]

JC's Holocron is a different guild, AFAIK, to his.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Ahhhh.

[Lakemine]

And now the collection unlock for items from the Light vs. Dark packs won't unlock. Just pulled a Advanced White Hawkeye crystal and all 3 boxes of tulak hords armor set. Still im loving the packs aside that bug

 

Sadly I have all those already....from months before, so this is useless to me. *sigh* Grats though!

[Rolodome]

Sorry you Heroic guys got nerfed. I hope it gets overturned and brought back to what it was. I really do.

 

Hey, there's always slicing =p

 

Best of luck.

I've played a game that had a dedicated economist on staff. Judging by the decisions going on and the layout of things, I'm pretty confident this game does not have a dedicated economist.

 

I'm going to try to get into that economist's head for a moment (the one from the other game) and speculate how he might handle what's going on here:

 

Instead of straight nerfing something like Treasure Hunting and doing nothing else, he might reduce the gain % to something much lower (maybe even make it a slight average loss in raw credit gain) but also add desirable items into the pool of lockboxes with a moderate level of rarity, so that players are still incentivized to go for them and then trade the items they get with other players, rather than vendoring them for straight cash-generation. In this way, very little money is added to the game through them, but players can still profit off of them.

 

Same general idea with Slicing. Rather than straight credit nerf alone, mix tradeable goods in. Get people exchanging money to get what they need, rather than purely printing new money. This could be done with Heroics too, to a point. In theory, you'd just want to tweak the drop-rates every so often to account for changes in how many people are participating and possibly mix up the pool of semi-rare items on a regular basis, to ensure that they maintain a decent amount of value.

 

It's not perfect, I'm not an economist, and it might require some upkeep, but the general idea is, putting the focus on the exchanging of wealth, rather than simply nerfing high-credit printing methods and leaving it at that.

 

Also, related: The game I'm thinking of had buy-orders for the marketplace, so in situations where players wanted to unload goods without hassle, they could often do so for popular items without getting caught in tedious examination of market price, undercutting, and so on.

 

Swinging a bat at inflation wildly, though I'm sure it would make for a good variation on Whack-A-Mole, is, as far as I can tell, not a good idea for bettering a game's economy. I don't know if that's truly their reason here, but I can't imagine what else would have justified it.

[Lakemine]

I'm sorry, but this leaves me speechless. This is atrocious!

 

There is absolutely no reason for them to have done this! No rational explanation can justify it. Why did they have to mess with it? If it ain't broken, don't fix it! What a load of tosh this is. There are no words in the English dictionary to express my frustration right now (in before the trolls throw a slur about my apparent ''priorities'' in life).

 

You see, this could very well be BW's most moronic decision to date, however mild it may look. You know why? Because they decided to 'tweak' it for the simple sake of it!I am 100% sure, despite what they may say, that BW themselves don't have a motive for this. They just thought they would do it. This is what disgusts me the most , it's the finest example - and a blatant one - of how they a) don't give a crap about us b) enjoy torturing the playerbase in some sadistic, power-driven fashion c) are a complete bunch of incompetents and unprofessional individuals.

 

This is simply out-ra-geous! I'm shocked.

 

As much as I agree with you. Sadly most other people I talk to, say this is a VERY good thing for the game, which I still can not wrap my head around. Something about if people have less creds then prices will come down, I don't see it ever happening, but who knows. (Still doubtful because it seems odd that if people have less creds they will buy more?) So Bioware changing this, they had a specific reason for it, not just to screw with us. (as I'm a solo heroic runner when waiting for queue pops, or people in a raid to sign on.)

[Lakemine]

Back to the old dailies I go...

 

True....but oddly enough, I still think running the heroics in the same time period as running all the dailys would still net more creds, but ALOT less, which still means you have to run 2-3 times as many for the same result.

[Lakemine]

Ya know when slicing got the nerf bat nobody cared. You want to talk about "working for credits", try riding around in a circle, competing with not only other slicers, but bots that could teleport, bots that adds would just ignore while they sliced the boxes, bots that you could already have started slicing a box and a bot would come after you had already started slicing the box and steal it right out from under you, to say nothing of the mindless mindnumbing fighting with mutliple adds half the time just to get the slice box - and you want to complain that Heroics got nerfed? At least there is some story to it. At least there is variation to it. Different planets, different landscapes, different background music.

 

Nobody cared when slicers got raped from a legitimate time consuming way of making credits that was frought with competition, something Heroics never have to deal with. Does is it suck? Yeah, sure it does.

 

The best part? The slicing nerf? That wasnt even BWs doing all on its own. That came about from players coming unto the forums demanding that BW rip slicers way of making credits apart when it in no way effected how they were making credits. That there were bots being misusued to exploit slicing boxes was not the fault of legitimate slicers. The best part was in nerfing the slicing boxes it made it not cost effective time wise to slice any more given the competition, so in effect, the nerf was a godsend for the bots, they lost all legitimate slicer competition. Yavin 4 is owned by bots now. They made more credits than ever.

 

I said it than, what comes around goes around.

 

Yeah it sucks, but u shouldn't feel entitled like some great wrong was done to you. Welcome to the club. No one was ************ on the forums that Heroics should be nerfed and forming anti- heroic committees for the reduction in the pay out for heroics like was done with the anti-slicing jerk offs back than.

 

You think its bad that BW "snuck" the nerf into this patch?

How would you feel if it was the player base openly vying for months to have your chosen manner of making credits gutted when it in no way effected them to begin with. If instead of a nerf they would have increased the amount of credits you could have made from doing Heroics, I woulda been happy for you guys.

 

Remember that when it someone else's turn.

What's in your pocketbook is no one elses buisness.

 

Sorry you Heroic guys got nerfed. I hope it gets overturned and brought back to what it was. I really do.

 

Hey, there's always slicing =p

 

Best of luck.

 

Just as a little info, your mostly right in the heroics never having any competition, mostly. I can't tell you how many times I have done the Irradiated Rakghoal heroic on Republic side and the bounty one in the Dark Temple on DK where when I see other people I invite them, because mainly I don't want to sit there for another 5-10 minutes waiting for a respawn, and they decline. Even on those heroics when someone else invites me I join, even though I do most heroics solo, I know how stupid those 2 are, so I invite or join. But sadly....most other people do not. (Not to say it doesn't happen, because it does...but very few times compared with kill stealers.) Plus any open area heroics are annoying also because people are fighting over objectives instead of just grouping up and getting it done faster. Now the instance heroics? No issue.

[Lunafox]

Honestly I don't see the problem. It makes credit spammers have to work harder and it means prices on the GTN will have to go down by the price gougers who wanna suck the fun out of the game for people by putting stuff out of reasonably reachable price ranges. I did warn that price gouging about sucking the fun out of the game for other people was bad and I knew they'd get theirs in the end and boom they did.

 

I'm actually glad they nerfed Heroics. I see it as not a big issue for me because it means the credit spammers are gonna be less of a problems and prices are gonna go down on the GTN. So yay!

 

I don't think doing this will make the prices on the gtn come down at all. For the simple reason, that they upped the price of the new packs...which means fewer people will buy them, and the already preciously rare items will become even more so, which means the prices will remain atrociously high.

 

All Bioware succeeded in doing with this sneaky nerf of theirs, is to ensure that gold seller still make a killing, while people like me who mindlessly grind these heroics to supplement crafting incomes, will either have to work that much harder to earn the creds to buy the really nice things, or go without. I for one don't have so much time that I can sit and grind the same heroics over 10 toons. It's an asinine idea to nerf the heroic payouts. They were at a fair rate, where I was enticed to still run them...now...why bother?

 

And when I don't have money in game to buy things to decorate my house with...well after KotFE ends, there isn't anything for me to do. I don't want to leave, but it's like they're pushing me out the door with two hands on my back and boot to my rear.

[Edofnor]

Eric is only a drone in the system that has no freedom, rights, or any say.

 

If this guy is bothered by "the system," he has the right to quit his sleazy, cushy job and make an honest living with an honest employer. However, doing that would require a conscience -- and having a conscience clearly disqualifies one from being hired at BioWare.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Edofnor

[Rolodome]

As much as I agree with you. Sadly most other people I talk to, say this is a VERY good thing for the game, which I still can not wrap my head around. Something about if people have less creds then prices will come down, I don't see it ever happening, but who knows. (Still doubtful because it seems odd that if people have less creds they will buy more?) So Bioware changing this, they had a specific reason for it, not just to screw with us. (as I'm a solo heroic runner when waiting for queue pops, or people in a raid to sign on.)

Most people don't know the first thing about economics. Not saying that as an insult. More an observation.

 

The tendency is to think that money works something like this:

 

- There is money

- Money can be generated

- If there is too much money, inflation happens and I can't afford things

- Therefore, less money needs to exist

- Anything that reduces money generation means less money will exist, which means I will be better able to afford things

 

There's a lot missing from this, of course. For instance, that money doesn't just disappear because you decrease how much is getting generated. Money sinks will take time to reduce it overall and people who hoard lots of money will hoard it regardless and avoid money sinks, as they are prone to doing.

 

Or that rarity of items doesn't change because of the amount of money out there. Rare items are still going to be rare and be priced at a premium. By reducing the ability of the average person to get wealth, what will happen is the average person will now have a harder time saving up for rare goods, while the players who tend toward being wealthy will have less competition for buying up rare items.

 

There's more, but I'm too tired to get into it. Basically, the belief that "less money generated" = "reduced cost of items" is a fantasy belief. At best, it will take months for it to have any noticeable impact and even then, sellers still may price stuff super high, if there are enough wealthy buyers who are willing to pay. Not only that but reduced pricing of items doesn't necessarily mean they are easier to obtain. If your rate of obtaining wealth stays proportional to the reduction in cost, nothing has actually changed for you; it is still going to take you just as long to get what you want.

[Darth-Malice]

Hey folks,

 

I just wanted to pop into the thread and confirm that the Heroic Mission Rewards were reduced. This wasn't intended to be a "stealth change," but it was missed from the patch notes and we apologize for that. We are working on getting it added to the notes soon.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

-eric

 

I really wish I could believe you Eric. But I don't. And probably most of the community doesn't either.

[peter_plankskull]

If this guy is bothered by "the system," he has the right to quit his sleazy, cushy job and make an honest living with an honest employer. However, doing that would require a conscience -- and having a conscience clearly disqualifies one from being hired at BioWare.

 

You... you don't understand do you?

 

Gaming companies have changed... its no longer about a job, money, or work, its a endless series of challenging their customers to make the biggest buck by EA and Bioware. Gaming... and its consumption of money, has become a well oiled machine. Gaming has changed... employees use ID tagged computers and usernames... ID tagged posts... managers around them enhance and regulate their abilities... information control, emotion control, posting privileges... everything is monitored and kept under control. Gaming has changed... the age of free will... has become the age of control.

[cool-dude]

When I do it with other people? Same time spent, but only about half if not less credits

 

That makes no sense.

 

My SW is in it's 50s, and it grouped up with three level 65s, and we completed all of tatooines heroics in around 20 minutes we rushed and spread out to completed bonus objectives). that planet alone gave me around 800k. Doing heroics with other players, even if its just one other person is always faster and gives you more money. You don't know what you are talking about.

[peter_plankskull]

I wish I knew how to edit videos... as I would have a field day with KOTFE.

 

Just to let you know their original conversation was someone suggesting operations...

 

 

Rest of the video for the most part can be related to KOTFE as well... like...

 

 

 

 

Posted this in a thread earlier which conveniently disappeared after maintenance, so I thought instead of letting it waste ill put it here since they keep dropping the ball.

[Uruare]

Hey folks,

 

I just wanted to pop into the thread and confirm that the Heroic Mission Rewards were reduced. This wasn't intended to be a "stealth change," but it was missed from the patch notes and we apologize for that. We are working on getting it added to the notes soon.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

-eric

 

And it VERY conveniently didn't wind up an overshadowing topic on your build-up of this L v D event!

 

SCORE FOR SERENDIPITY!

 

Gosh, don't you just love it when all the accidents just...work in your favor?

 

I know I do when I arrange my happy accidents.

[VegasTheLost]

So let me get this straight. BW makes heroics "relevant" again, so people will do them. People actually doing them, so yay. However BW decides to nerf the payout so people most probably loose interest doing them. #logic

[Kalzyk]

So let me get this straight. BW makes heroics "relevant" again, so people will do them. People actually doing them, so yay. However BW decides to nerf the payout so people most probably loose interest doing them. #logic

 

Pretty much. I don't know the logic of it personally. Apparently they feel that it is a bit too much, but it would have went over better had they done a better job of removing cheaters' credits first, then doing this. It would have likely gotten them a lot less flack tbh.

[Decidion]

So let me get this straight. BW makes heroics "relevant" again, so people will do them. People actually doing them, so yay. However BW decides to nerf the payout so people most probably loose interest doing them. #logic

 

*and* increases the incentive for people to use credit farmers/sellers. This makes no sense whatsoever and it makes you wonder about the people making the decisions....

[gbrumback]

Yea, this one has me pretty ticked off right now. I work nights and during the week, when I am on, most of my guild is not. So, to kill the lonely time I run heroics to get credits to buy shinies on the GTN. Now, this severely limits my character's income to buy said shinies. Not happy at all.

 

Oh, and I do not buy the BS statement of "we forgot to put it in the patch notes." I'm betting on "if we put it in the notes the night before they'll rage on us, and they're already raging about our new 'event', so let's just slip it in there quietly."

[VirtualMorrigan]

You... you don't understand do you?

 

Gaming companies have changed... its no longer about a job, money, or work, its a endless series of challenging their customers to make the biggest buck by EA and Bioware. Gaming... and its consumption of money, has become a well oiled machine. Gaming has changed... employees use ID tagged computers and usernames... ID tagged posts... managers around them enhance and regulate their abilities... information control, emotion control, posting privileges... everything is monitored and kept under control. Gaming has changed... the age of free will... has become the age of control.

 

No, it is you this time who doesn't understand. This trend is in all industries, not just gaming, and it is there because employees go along with it. I used to work for one of the three largest US-based business software companies, and they tried to pull the same **** there. I quit when they tried to force me to blatantly lie to the customers, and went on to work at a place where this wasn't a job requirement. Staying and remaining to be part of the problem while demanding sympathy is just pathetic. Companies will do what they can get away with, to their customers and employees alike. That has always been the case.

 

And as for Eric. He is perfect for this job. He sound just like the average geek, someone you can relate to, and of course you wouldn't dream of being unfriendly to someone who is doing such a difficult job at a company that makes a game you love, would you. Because hey, he's one of us, he loves the game too, and it's all not his fault, right? That's why he's there. Crowd control. People are easy.

 

He gets no sympathy from me. It's his choice to do this. Not that he will even care about what people say in this forum, of course, since that is what the forum is for. People yell and scream, usually at each other, but while they waste their energy here, they still give money to Bioware.

[DarthWoad]

Hey folks,

 

I just wanted to pop into the thread and confirm that the Heroic Mission Rewards were reduced. This wasn't intended to be a "stealth change," but it was missed from the patch notes and we apologize for that. We are working on getting it added to the notes soon.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

-eric

 

Yes eric BUT WHY??

[peter_plankskull]

No, it is you this time who doesn't understand. This trend is in all industries, not just gaming, and it is there because employees go along with it. I used to work for one of the three largest US-based business software companies, and they tried to pull the same **** there. I quit when they tried to force me to blatantly lie to the customers, and went on to work at a place where this wasn't a job requirement. Staying and remaining to be part of the problem while demanding sympathy is just pathetic. Companies will do what they can get away with, to their customers and employees alike. That has always been the case.

 

And as for Eric. He is perfect for this job. He sound just like the average geek, someone you can relate to, and of course you wouldn't dream of being unfriendly to someone who is doing such a difficult job at a company that makes a game you love, would you. Because hey, he's one of us, he loves the game too, and it's all not his fault, right? That's why he's there. Crowd control. People are easy.

 

He gets no sympathy from me. It's his choice to do this. Not that he will even care about what people say in this forum, of course, since that is what the forum is for. People yell and scream, usually at each other, but while they waste their energy here, they still give money to Bioware.

 

Someone isn't a Metal Gear Solid player...

[VirtualMorrigan]

Someone isn't a Metal Gear Solid player...

 

I'm not. Sorry if I didn't catch your reference. I was surprised, since you usually are one of the sensible people in here...Sorry.

[Transcendent]

Hey folks,

 

I just wanted to pop into the thread and confirm that the Heroic Mission Rewards were reduced. This wasn't intended to be a "stealth change," but it was missed from the patch notes and we apologize for that. We are working on getting it added to the notes soon.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

-eric

 

Can you confirm that this change was made in an attempt to balance the economy of the game Eric? If so does this also mean that Treasure Hunting will also be looked at in the near future?

 

I'd suggest that increasing the decoration drop rates to compensate would help in the direction of reconciling the difference in the amount of credits reduction from heroics, it at least gives another reason to participate in group content (this goes for flashpoints as well).

[Alssaran]

Eric, with all due respect, I think you're wrong there. The solo rewards were never an issue - even thought the heroics could be completed incredibly fast. I think the real issue is the group reward. That's the real problem for the game's economy. Gaining 15k instead of 10k for a single heroic isn't as much of an issue as scaling it to 60k per heroic in a group. This scaling still remains intact.

 

Even though I think this feature is to encourage people to group up, I think that would be the real place to start.