Premade vs Premade?

[LadyDarkkitten]

What they actually want, without the testicular fortitude to admit it, is to win 95% of the time. And that simply isn't even remotely realistic.

 

Thats where you said it. Post right above mine.

 

Also 16 dps wouldn't be waiting on 2 healers to join the queue. they could go with the 16. Its not a fp or op. In pvp healers hinder the experience (at least from my point of view).

Edited June 25, 2016 by LadyDarkkitten

[Volthammer]

Thats where you said it. Post right above mine.

 

Also 16 dps wouldn't be waiting on 2 healers to join the queue. they could go with the 16. Its not a fp or op. In pvp healers hinder the experience (at least from my point of view).

 

No, before that I said, "People whining about premades". I did not say, "All players". As All players certainly do not complain about premades. Not by a long shot. What I think *would* help PvP, at least for a while, is for Bio to just merge servers again.

[Fiqh]

No, before that I said, "People whining about premades". I did not say, "All players". As All players certainly do not complain about premades. Not by a long shot. What I think *would* help PvP, at least for a while, is for Bio to just merge servers again.

 

What I personally don't get is how demanding a fair match, a closer match, a skill based in apposed to a roll of the dice match is whining. Its not. I'm a go a bit off topic then bring you back. It would seem in the gamer community the elite players don't like to be challenged. In physical sports the ideal match is one where you face the best. I bring my best you bring yours and lets see who is truly better. But in the gaming community it seems people are content with walking over and stomping lesser competition. Which explains the opportunistic attitude of those who roll primarily in premades. True the premade vs premade idea in swtor is untested but you never know unless you experiment with it. I mean is it that scary? Whats the worst that could happen? They go back to the previous set up in a following patch? It sounds to me you like most people in " real life " fear change. There are a lot of threads like this one. Ingame if you ask around the majority of casual players side with the idea of premades vs premades option in que. So embrace it. If we keep " whining " the change will come.

[AlrikFassbauer]

We have premade v premade, its called group ranked.

 

What about bad premades vs. bad premades ? I don't think that these would belong into Group Ranked.

[Candleper]

Premades are just people who know each other whether in a guild or friends. Get to know other people and group or die.

[foxmob]

Clearly being in a premade gives you an advantage over randoms. So why not make premades face other premades. Or is that too challenging. Yes you risk being exposed for not being as good as you proclaim when faced with the players using equal tools like full teams,

claim.

 

look, man. there are problems with premades, but what you're talking about is a common misconception among players who complain about premades in regs.

 

the actual problem with premades in regs is pretty much the opposite of what you say here. the opposite. as in you are completely wrong.

 

Here's the short list:

 

First: premades are problematic because they allow the four best players in the WZ to play on the same team at every pop. you (and others) have it arse-backwards trying to come on here and shame ppl for forming premades and stepping on you when they'd get wrecked without their buddies to back them up.

 

nobody, and I mean nobody, cares about average pvpers grouped together. they don't skew the experience one way or the other. if anything, they only bring role balance to a system that otherwise has none.

 

Second: premades create complications for matchmaking because while it's easy to role match (ala solo ranked) when every individual piece can be moved around to ensure that each team has the same number of dps, heals, and/or tanks, if those dps, tanks or heals are linked to each other, then the matchmaker has to figure out a jigsaw puzzle that has no defined edges or has missing pieces in the middle. so premades are a problem for role matching.

 

Third: faction balance. if the best players are predominately playing on the imperial faction, then they will never be teamed up with players on the republic side. are you then going to accuse those players of being premade cowards for playing imperials? it's the same difference as being in a premade. it's even better than a premade. AND most of the good premades tend to play on the stronger faction (psst, they're the ones who make it stronger and cause other players to migrate over).

 

Fourth: role balance (aka: trinity composition). a premade can ensure that they will have at least one tank and one healer paired with two dps. mind you, the most devastating premades don't even do this. they're just the 3 or 4 best players in the match and they're all on the same team. that's why this issue is so far down the list. but yes, a premade can ensure that their team gets the proper trinity composition.

 

Fifth: arenas are only 4m teams. BW originally built a check to the first problem when the game launched. all teams were 8m, but the max number of players you could guarantee on your team was 4. that meant you could only guarantee you'd be able to dictate who is/isn't on half of your team. arenas break this b/c they're only 4m teams, so a premade can dictate the composition of their entire team instead of only having control over half of it.

 

now I want you to pry your head away from the emotional state that controlled it while you raged on premades accusing the players of being baddie cowards who couldn't get it done alone and look objectively at this list. it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones. that's the opposite of your line with which I started this post. role and faction and voice comms are all subject to that first issue: they're better than you, and they're stacked. proof? they don't need a trinity comp to step on you. they could be all dps. they could be short a tank. they could be short a healer. they're still going to tilt the map.

 

what you really want is some kind of elo-based matchmaking system for regs to keep the average skill close to equal on both sides of the match. that is impossible. but there are less invasive things BW can do that wouldn't cripple the queue, and those have been mentioned hundreds of times. they include x-server, x-faction, role balancing, limiting the percentage of supporting (heals and tanks) roles per team, limiting the number of same guild tags per team, etc.

Edited June 25, 2016 by foxmob

[Maegi]

claim.

 

look, man. there are problems with premades, but what you're talking about is a common misconception among players who complain about premades in regs.

 

the actual problem with premades in regs is pretty much the opposite of what you say here. the opposite. as in you are completely wrong.

 

Here's the short list:

 

First: premades are problematic because they allow the four best players in the WZ to play on the same team at every pop. you (and others) have it arse-backwards trying to come on here and shame ppl for forming premades and stepping on you when they'd get wrecked without their buddies to back them up.

 

nobody, and I mean nobody, cares about average pvpers grouped together. they don't skew the experience one way or the other. if anything, they only bring role balance to a system that otherwise has none.

 

Second: premades create complications for matchmaking because while it's easy to role match (ala solo ranked) when every individual piece can be moved around to ensure that each team has the same number of dps, heals, and/or tanks, if those dps, tanks or heals are linked to each other, then the matchmaker has to figure out a jigsaw puzzle that has no defined edges or has missing pieces in the middle. so premades are a problem for role matching.

 

Third: faction balance. if the best players are predominately playing on the imperial faction, then they will never be teamed up with players on the republic side. are you then going to accuse those players of being premade cowards for playing imperials? it's the same difference as being in a premade. it's even better than a premade. AND most of the good premades tend to play on the stronger faction (psst, they're the ones who make it stronger and cause other players to migrate over).

 

Fourth: role balance (aka: trinity composition). a premade can ensure that they will have at least one tank and one healer paired with two dps. mind you, the most devastating premades don't even do this. they're just the 3 or 4 best players in the match and they're all on the same team. that's why this issue is so far down the list. but yes, a premade can ensure that their team gets the proper trinity composition.

 

Fifth: arenas are only 4m teams. BW originally built a check to the first problem when the game launched. all teams were 8m, but the max number of players you could guarantee on your team was 4. that meant you could only guarantee you'd be able to dictate who is/isn't on half of your team. arenas break this b/c they're only 4m teams, so a premade can dictate the composition of their entire team instead of only having control over half of it.

 

now I want you to pry your head away from the emotional state that controlled it while you raged on premades accusing the players of being baddie cowards who couldn't get it done alone and look objectively at this list. it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones. that's the opposite of your line with which I started this post. role and faction and voice comms are all subject to that first issue: they're better than you, and they're stacked. proof? they don't need a trinity comp to step on you. they could be all dps. they could be short a tank. they could be short a healer. they're still going to tilt the map.

 

what you really want is some kind of elo-based matchmaking system for regs to keep the average skill close to equal on both sides of the match. that is impossible. but there are less invasive things BW can do that wouldn't cripple the queue, and those have been mentioned hundreds of times. they include x-server, x-faction, role balancing, limiting the percentage of supporting (heals and tanks) roles per team, limiting the number of same guild tags per team, etc.

 

THANK you.

[-Bob-]

claim.

 

look, man. there are problems with premades, but what you're talking about is a common misconception among players who complain about premades in regs.

 

the actual problem with premades in regs is pretty much the opposite of what you say here. the opposite. as in you are completely wrong.

 

Here's the short list:

 

First: premades are problematic because they allow the four best players in the WZ to play on the same team at every pop. you (and others) have it arse-backwards trying to come on here and shame ppl for forming premades and stepping on you when they'd get wrecked without their buddies to back them up.

 

nobody, and I mean nobody, cares about average pvpers grouped together. they don't skew the experience one way or the other. if anything, they only bring role balance to a system that otherwise has none.

 

Second: premades create complications for matchmaking because while it's easy to role match (ala solo ranked) when every individual piece can be moved around to ensure that each team has the same number of dps, heals, and/or tanks, if those dps, tanks or heals are linked to each other, then the matchmaker has to figure out a jigsaw puzzle that has no defined edges or has missing pieces in the middle. so premades are a problem for role matching.

 

Third: faction balance. if the best players are predominately playing on the imperial faction, then they will never be teamed up with players on the republic side. are you then going to accuse those players of being premade cowards for playing imperials? it's the same difference as being in a premade. it's even better than a premade. AND most of the good premades tend to play on the stronger faction (psst, they're the ones who make it stronger and cause other players to migrate over).

 

Fourth: role balance (aka: trinity composition). a premade can ensure that they will have at least one tank and one healer paired with two dps. mind you, the most devastating premades don't even do this. they're just the 3 or 4 best players in the match and they're all on the same team. that's why this issue is so far down the list. but yes, a premade can ensure that their team gets the proper trinity composition.

 

Fifth: arenas are only 4m teams. BW originally built a check to the first problem when the game launched. all teams were 8m, but the max number of players you could guarantee on your team was 4. that meant you could only guarantee you'd be able to dictate who is/isn't on half of your team. arenas break this b/c they're only 4m teams, so a premade can dictate the composition of their entire team instead of only having control over half of it.

 

now I want you to pry your head away from the emotional state that controlled it while you raged on premades accusing the players of being baddie cowards who couldn't get it done alone and look objectively at this list. it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones. that's the opposite of your line with which I started this post. role and faction and voice comms are all subject to that first issue: they're better than you, and they're stacked. proof? they don't need a trinity comp to step on you. they could be all dps. they could be short a tank. they could be short a healer. they're still going to tilt the map.

 

what you really want is some kind of elo-based matchmaking system for regs to keep the average skill close to equal on both sides of the match. that is impossible. but there are less invasive things BW can do that wouldn't cripple the queue, and those have been mentioned hundreds of times. they include x-server, x-faction, role balancing, limiting the percentage of supporting (heals and tanks) roles per team, limiting the number of same guild tags per team, etc.

 

Well said

[AlrikFassbauer]

it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones.

 

Exactly this is what most premade defenders deny or just look away from.

 

Or, to put it into other words : Any good player premade would LOVE to play against bad premades ... Because they are so easy to take out.

[OldRepublicRevan]

Exactly this is what most premade defenders deny or just look away from.

 

Or, to put it into other words : Any good player premade would LOVE to play against bad premades ... Because they are so easy to take out.

 

Hence why they que up in req wzs. A team of 4 with teamspeak can wreck a team of 8. It's a huge disadvantage we're all aware of and, the premaders that get most upset when we point this out are the same ones stacking teams in their own favor :^

[foxmob]

Exactly this is what most premade defenders deny or just look away from.

 

Or, to put it into other words : Any good player premade would LOVE to play against bad premades ... Because they are so easy to take out.

 

ok. first of all, what's your proof on this? it's anecdotal. so is mine. so I'll counter in kind: I know great players (remember that caprica guy? played with and against him since the 2nd server transfers). he grouped with other good players in regs all the time. do you really think it was to be able to beat up on bad players? it was not. he grouped up with players who were good to avoid players who were bad.

 

all you do on this board is try to psychoanalyze your own butthurt through everybody else. so use those mighty cognitive powers and try...really hard...try to empathize with a person who's better than you. or better yet, imagine someone who's much better than you. be it basketball, football, any team sport or competition in the world. but the NBA playoff just wrapped up, so I'll go there: caprica drives down the lane, beats his man. you're near the baseline on the other side of the paint. your guy peels off to pick up cap. cap jumps up, looking at the hoop the whole time, but your guy is going to reject him. that's cool. his ploy works. he does a no look behind the back pass that jams your fingers on both hands before it bounces out of bounds. he set you up for the world's easiest layup, but you weren't ready for it because you can't play on his level. you don't even think that he might pass the ball to you in that situation.

 

here's where the empathy comes in: imagine that you're him. imagine the utter frustration of being tied to someone as hopelessly beneath him as you. that's why the really good players group up. it pains them to deal with mental midgets whose keyboards lock up when a stealther stuns them.

 

the regstar guilds that only queue regs and would never queue ranked, even if it did pop, are only average players anyway. they don't tilt the map. there as many or more bad premades that tilt the map in the opposite direction (usually on the weaker faction).

 

as for how you should pug regs. guys. look at the system. the system is terrible. the matchmaking is terrible. it is designed around one purpose: faster pops. if you're in a pointless game: leave. if you're on a map you don't want to play: leave. seriously. there's no penalty for leaving. you don't choose your teammates. you don't choose your map. there's no consideration for role or skill in the matchmaking. there's massive faction imbalance. you can either stay there taking it up the arse and get angry; rage on your own teammates and opponents and get angry; or you can remember that you're playing a game for your own enjoyment and leave a situation that would otherwise do nothing but frustrate and anger you. who cares? it's regs. that's BW's defacto attitude. they don't care. if you run your mouth, you'll just be the jerk yourself or get trolled. what the hell are you still doing there? what are you trying to prove?

[Greezt]

*snip*

 

I'm a macho mofo...

 

Seriously though, here are my reasons for staying.

 

- I am trying to finish dailies on alts. I won't quit every match, or it will take ages.

 

- I feel bad for dumping my s**t on other people. Yes, I know other people dont GAF, but I can't do that.

 

- I'm a bit masochistic. By this I mean I'm boneheaded and can't give up a match against terrible odds. Again, this is dumb, but that's the way I feel.

 

The only time I will quit a match is if I backfill into a stomp, and have 5-6 teammates. This is a sign that my team has already given up, and I feel no obligation to try hard in such a game.

[foxmob]

I'm a macho mofo...

 

Seriously though, here are my reasons for staying.

 

- I am trying to finish dailies on alts. I won't quit every match, or it will take ages.

 

- I feel bad for dumping my s**t on other people. Yes, I know other people dont GAF, but I can't do that.

 

- I'm a bit masochistic. By this I mean I'm boneheaded and can't give up a match against terrible odds. Again, this is dumb, but that's the way I feel.

 

The only time I will quit a match is if I backfill into a stomp, and have 5-6 teammates. This is a sign that my team has already given up, and I feel no obligation to try hard in such a game.

to each his own. that's your choice. more power to you. but don't sit there and blame better players for groupoing up to avoid the sh^tshow that you're in. and don't sit there raging because you "have to stay" while you see ppl abandoning ship. you don't need to be there either. you choose to.

Edited June 26, 2016 by foxmob

[Greezt]

to each his own. that's your choice. more power to you. but don't sit there and blame better players for groupoing up to avoid the sh^tshow that you're in. and don't sit there raging because you "have to stay" while you see ppl abandoning ship. you don't need to be there either. you choose to.

 

That's fair. I'm ok with premades. If I feel stomped, I stop queueing for the time.

[Fiqh]

claim.

 

look, man. there are problems with premades, but what you're talking about is a common misconception among players who complain about premades in regs.

 

the actual problem with premades in regs is pretty much the opposite of what you say here. the opposite. as in you are completely wrong.

 

Here's the short list:

 

First: premades are problematic because they allow the four best players in the WZ to play on the same team at every pop. you (and others) have it arse-backwards trying to come on here and shame ppl for forming premades and stepping on you when they'd get wrecked without their buddies to back them up.

 

nobody, and I mean nobody, cares about average pvpers grouped together. they don't skew the experience one way or the other. if anything, they only bring role balance to a system that otherwise has none.

 

Second: premades create complications for matchmaking because while it's easy to role match (ala solo ranked) when every individual piece can be moved around to ensure that each team has the same number of dps, heals, and/or tanks, if those dps, tanks or heals are linked to each other, then the matchmaker has to figure out a jigsaw puzzle that has no defined edges or has missing pieces in the middle. so premades are a problem for role matching.

 

Third: faction balance. if the best players are predominately playing on the imperial faction, then they will never be teamed up with players on the republic side. are you then going to accuse those players of being premade cowards for playing imperials? it's the same difference as being in a premade. it's even better than a premade. AND most of the good premades tend to play on the stronger faction (psst, they're the ones who make it stronger and cause other players to migrate over).

 

Fourth: role balance (aka: trinity composition). a premade can ensure that they will have at least one tank and one healer paired with two dps. mind you, the most devastating premades don't even do this. they're just the 3 or 4 best players in the match and they're all on the same team. that's why this issue is so far down the list. but yes, a premade can ensure that their team gets the proper trinity composition.

 

Fifth: arenas are only 4m teams. BW originally built a check to the first problem when the game launched. all teams were 8m, but the max number of players you could guarantee on your team was 4. that meant you could only guarantee you'd be able to dictate who is/isn't on half of your team. arenas break this b/c they're only 4m teams, so a premade can dictate the composition of their entire team instead of only having control over half of it.

 

now I want you to pry your head away from the emotional state that controlled it while you raged on premades accusing the players of being baddie cowards who couldn't get it done alone and look objectively at this list. it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones. that's the opposite of your line with which I started this post. role and faction and voice comms are all subject to that first issue: they're better than you, and they're stacked. proof? they don't need a trinity comp to step on you. they could be all dps. they could be short a tank. they could be short a healer. they're still going to tilt the map.

 

what you really want is some kind of elo-based matchmaking system for regs to keep the average skill close to equal on both sides of the match. that is impossible. but there are less invasive things BW can do that wouldn't cripple the queue, and those have been mentioned hundreds of times. they include x-server, x-faction, role balancing, limiting the percentage of supporting (heals and tanks) roles per team, limiting the number of same guild tags per team, etc.

 

Obviously your high jacking of my thread and your wall of text post is an attempt to desperately get my attention. Fine I will grace you with it this one time. Feel honored.

 

1) Your opinion is just that an opinion. In this case your opinion is illogical and not backed with anything of substance or factual. We like facts. You don't have to agree with me no more than I have to agree with you but do realize your opinion is not in the majority amongst casual players. Which makes up the majority of the SWTOR community. If you disagree with that and think most players are hardcore or "pro" You are delusional.

 

2) Premades don't necessarily have the four best players in WZ on the same team. There is no way you can even prove the "Best" part of your, " the four best players in the WZ to play on the same team at every pop" statement. But lets say for arguments sake you are right. There is nothing wrong or excessively advantageous about the four best players in all of WZ being on the same team. The problem lye in the advantage the TOOLS premades have at their disposal over randoms.

I'm not sure how your brain processes information but I will try my best to brake it down to as simple as possible for you.

~ If you are on voice chat

~ have a full team from the start of the match until the end

~ If you have 2 good healer / 2 tank / and 4 dps

~ You've played together and coached each others mistakes

~ You're FAMILIAR with each others spec and play style

And the other team of randoms is missing any two of those tools I listed above; EVEN IF THE 4 BEST PLAYERS were on the solo quers team they are still going into the match with a disadvantage.

Maybe you misunderstand my position on premades. I'm not against them at all. I am asking that their be an additional option for them in que.

And lastly I never rage my friend. I am an adult and this is a video game. Look at your post and look at mine and ask yourself which of us seems more likely to be a rager?

 

"now I want you to pry your head away from the emotional state that controlled it while you raged on premades accusing the players of being baddie cowards who couldn't get it done alone and look objectively at this list. it's not any old premade that hurts. it's good players grouped together. good players. not bad ones. that's the opposite of your line with which I started this post. role and faction and voice comms are all subject to that first issue: they're better than you, and they're stacked. proof? they don't need a trinity comp to step on you. they could be all dps. they could be short a tank. they could be short a healer. they're still going to tilt the map."

 

This is my favorite part. While you show your own anger at my words you try to deflect the attention away from how butt hurt and riled up you got over reading them and say I am the one in some kind of emotional state. Cute little attempt at reverse psychology. Insist I'm the one with the problem when really you are. Clearly you run in premades and defend them even when they'reare not under attack. People who only run in premades are afraid of losing. Saying I just want to group up with friends and guilds is code for reassurance based upon familiarity. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. There is a problem when you deliberately seek out competition who don't have the same privilege. It is my opinion but the only logical explanation is fear of losing.

 

If a group of players is just more skilled they are just more skilled. By skill I mean more knowledgeable of classes game mechanics and they possess superior aesthetics. I can respect that. We all should. But that's not what we are discussing.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Fiqh

[foxmob]

If a group of players is just more skilled they are just more skilled. By skill I mean more knowledgeable of classes game mechanics and they possess superior aesthetics. I can respect that. We all should. But that's not what we are discussing.

 

lol right. well...whatever gets you to sleep at night boss.

[Nardoo]

ok. first of all, what's your proof on this? it's anecdotal. so is mine. so I'll counter in kind: I know great players (remember that caprica guy? played with and against him since the 2nd server transfers). he grouped with other good players in regs all the time. do you really think it was to be able to beat up on bad players? it was not. he grouped up with players who were good to avoid players who were bad.

 

all you do on this board is try to psychoanalyze your own butthurt through everybody else. so use those mighty cognitive powers and try...really hard...try to empathize with a person who's better than you. or better yet, imagine someone who's much better than you. be it basketball, football, any team sport or competition in the world. but the NBA playoff just wrapped up, so I'll go there: caprica drives down the lane, beats his man. you're near the baseline on the other side of the paint. your guy peels off to pick up cap. cap jumps up, looking at the hoop the whole time, but your guy is going to reject him. that's cool. his ploy works. he does a no look behind the back pass that jams your fingers on both hands before it bounces out of bounds. he set you up for the world's easiest layup, but you weren't ready for it because you can't play on his level. you don't even think that he might pass the ball to you in that situation.

 

here's where the empathy comes in: imagine that you're him. imagine the utter frustration of being tied to someone as hopelessly beneath him as you. that's why the really good players group up. it pains them to deal with mental midgets whose keyboards lock up when a stealther stuns them.

 

the regstar guilds that only queue regs and would never queue ranked, even if it did pop, are only average players anyway. they don't tilt the map. there as many or more bad premades that tilt the map in the opposite direction (usually on the weaker faction).

 

as for how you should pug regs. guys. look at the system. the system is terrible. the matchmaking is terrible. it is designed around one purpose: faster pops. if you're in a pointless game: leave. if you're on a map you don't want to play: leave. seriously. there's no penalty for leaving. you don't choose your teammates. you don't choose your map. there's no consideration for role or skill in the matchmaking. there's massive faction imbalance. you can either stay there taking it up the arse and get angry; rage on your own teammates and opponents and get angry; or you can remember that you're playing a game for your own enjoyment and leave a situation that would otherwise do nothing but frustrate and anger you. who cares? it's regs. that's BW's defacto attitude. they don't care. if you run your mouth, you'll just be the jerk yourself or get trolled. what the hell are you still doing there? what are you trying to prove?

 

Lol this is a terrible analogy! I have no issue with good players grouping with good players as long as they are playing good players. If you want to run with your silly analogy, some nba all star goes back to high school and starts playing basket ball there. He doesn't like playing with high school kids because they suck compared to him. They haven't spent as long playing and training therefore it's pretty understandable. So he bring a few of his nba mates into the high school game and continues to play while rofl stomping the high school players. See how retarded that sounds?

Now here is the kicker for your nba analogy. When an nba star goes to high school, or any other sports pro, they are generally teaching the less experienced, helping them, encouraging them.

I've played with and against premades, and I know I'm not a good player, but never have I seen them encourage or help, even people on their own team. I haven't seen them take a newb in as the fourth person. Since bw isn't going to do jack about any form of skill based match making, that leaves the pvp "community" to sort it out amongst yourselves. Why not run your premade with a random fourth, help them out, encourage them, don't rage on them if they make a mistake, point it out and move on. There are a lot of people like me, who are trying to improve, and constantly getting stomped by people of far greater skill isn't helpful. Who knows, maybe you might make another good pvper and another friend in the process.

[foxmob]

Lol this is a terrible analogy! I have no issue with good players grouping with good players as long as they are playing good players.

<rage clipped>

reading comprehension is a thing. the analogy isn't great players vs. bad players. it's great players trying to avoid having bad players on the same team.

 

did you read everything I've said in this thread? or are you just butthurt about premades? because I began this by saying premades are a problem, and I listed 5 ways in which they are serious problems to pvp. I simply pointed out that they are not bad players who couldn't beat you one-on-one and that the only time premades are a problem is when the best (or worst) players in any given WZ are in the same premade. this is as logical as possible: if the 4 best players in that particular WZ (or 4 of the best 6) are in a premade and, therefore, on the same team, then the match is already broken. when those players are the same caliber as everyone else in the WZ, then it's no big deal.

 

as for my analogy, wth do think an NBA player is going to teach a HS player? let me give you an example. we'll pop a reg arena (all pugs). it's me and one other dps with 2 heals or a heal and tank. with only 2 dps, you need to work together. but the other team has a healer and a tank as well. the other dps in this scenario is your "hs player" and I get to be the NBA pro. as soon as he zones in, he puts a crosshair on the other team's healer and says, "kill the healer. I marked him." I tell him no. we'll test the tank first, see if he swaps quickly. but either way, we're going to kill their dps first by CCing at least one of the support roles. the upshot is that no matter who we kill, we cannot just sit on one target. that doesn't work in 4v4 trinity unless one team is terrible and the other is good. so I ask my dps partner, do you know how to focus target me? he doesn't answer. he doesn't know. w-t-f do you think I'm going to teach him in 20s before this arena round starts? I'm not going to go in and rebind all his targeting keys, telling him what each one means. I'm beyond this guy. he doesn't know how to play at my level. I don't want to play with him. it's like the teammate who doesn't expect a pass in the NBA analogy. he's just not looking at the game the same way.

 

but it doesn't matter. you're not looking at this board the same way either. you went red a long time ago. now you're just rrrrrage. elitist! premader!

Edited June 27, 2016 by foxmob

[Nardoo]

Lol, I think you're the butthurt one seeing red. International level players (the great ones anyway) often do training seminars at high schools. And you would be surprised how much you can pick up from a pro helping you. That said, I have read all your post in this thread and a lot in other threads and (until now) though you were reasonable. Yes reading comprehension is a thing. Try it one day

[Metthew]

reading comprehension is a thing. the analogy isn't great players vs. bad players. it's great players trying to avoid having bad players on the same team.

This is kind of the reason I go on premades, but there's an important nuance. Here's the actual reason I - myself - like queueing with premades (even though I do solo-queue occasionally):

 

I play the game to have fun. Playing with people who don't know what they are doing, is not fun for me anymore.

 

Losing Huttball because everybody is derping at mid, nobody but me caring about the rebounds, nobody getting in position to receive a pass from me drives me raging. I like playing Huttball to have a good, interesting match - and to be stomped only because nobody else actually tries to play the game (as in play Huttball) is infuriating. It's like I'm an amateur league player joining a game of footie, only to have my teammates play tag in the middle while the other team keeps walking through my teammates and shooting goals. I know playing tag is fun, but I'm here to play footie damnit.

 

Meanwhile, just yesterday, my "premade" team (of someone learning her class, and another friend) went up against a Passive Aggressive premade with healer / tank in Huttball. We lost the game 6 - 5, but it was a pretty intense game because our teammates played to get rebounds, getting passes down to the linesman (me with Entrench in that game, when I wasn't down to grab a rebound), trying to pull their carrier to traps or forcing a reset, intercepting passes... That was fun, and it wasn't sad for me to lose that game.

 

And people have ignored my directions in regular warzones for enough times that I no longer can bring myself to type everything, only for people to not even grace it with a reply. Since I'm no longer having fun in those types of bad games, and I play this game to have fun, I just leave such bad warzones and group with (a) player who know what they are doing. Not necessarily any composition, and just having another person who knows what to do is usually enough too.

[Floplag]

I'm sorry but equating a premade with skill is the equivalent of equating self love to sexual intercourse. There is no direct correlation or implication that one has anything to do with the other. A premade grants many possible benefits; support, coordination, improved response, heals, guards, etc... but increasing the individuals skill is NOT one of them. In fact one could argue the opposite to be true but thats another thread.

[Savej]

Average players in premades will beat average players that aren't just about every time. But premades full of bad players (maybe a pve guild going for an achievement or something) are funny to watch. Edited June 28, 2016 by Savej

[Greezt]

I'm sorry but equating a premade with skill is the equivalent of equating self love to sexual intercourse. There is no direct correlation or implication that one has anything to do with the other.

 

This is awesome.

[Ruhun]

Average playes in premades will beat average players that aren't just about every time. But premades full of bad players (maybe a pve guild going for an achievement or something) are funny to watch.

 

These are awful, all they do is cap a node and stay on it for objective medals.

[LadyDarkkitten]

I think a really good point was mentioned above. One of the key advantages of a premade where they have played together for a while was the teamwork that gets built up from learning how each other plays. No group of random strangers or even 4 guildies deciding to group up and queue together will ever equal that.

 

What really brought this home to me this weekend while I waited uselessly around for this LS/DS event to kick off and I could play seriously again, I hung out in midbies on my stealthers that I hadn't deleted. One evening on my operative I played maybe 30-40(?) wzs and it was pretty much the same guys queueing and playing with me. Midbies isn't a big bracket. There were 2 other ops in those games and I 1v1'd each several times. they 2v1'd me and with each of them I 2v1'd the other. We took bases off each other, defended bases, practised sap capping on other players and generally became very familiar with each others tricks and how the others responded.

 

Then a voidstar came up against the reps. the three of us took the right door straight out from under the 2 defenders who stood ZERO chance to stop the cap. Not a word was said by any of us, I just grabbed one guy to sleep dart and the others did their thing KNOWING i WAS COMPETENT for that part of our little unspoken plan. We totally rolled the reps. How because we all knew the others would be WILLING and just as importantly would be ABLE to back the play. Anyway after that it was back trying to ninja snow and pylons from each other.

 

I'm not saying hey look at me I'm a pro. I'm saying being able to work with someone your familiar with and have played with gives a massive advantage even in a 2v2 against equally skilled opponents. Everything else be it superior comp, voice coms, pet healers is just icing on a very rich luxurious cake.