Alignment doesn't make sense, BioLucas

[Liberta]

I'm not complaining about the system as it currently is (as I was initially planning to go all out dark side points on my main anyway), but I agree with the OP, there has to be some reward for neutrals aswell and/or those who didn't go all the way. Imo, the rewards should be also based on how many points you've gathered, and not based on if they are light or dark side. Light or dark side should also only influence aesthetics, to give more freedom for players to actually play their character as they want it to.

 

However, all is not lost if you end up neutral when you're 50. You could still do dailies to uppen your dark or light side points.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Liberta

[LoL-K-Noob]

Who is BioLucas? BioWare Austin is developing this game.

[LanceUpercutt]

its shocking people dont understand how lightside/darkside works in this

[dark_]

i DID pick a side. if i got 1000 light points that means i did as much for "good" as jedi anakin whatshisface over there.

 

what does it matter that i also did 1000 darkside points as well? there's no consistancy in the game for BEING both light and dark. your mentor or whoever you visit doesn't change his dialog. he doesn't scowl at you reproachfully for killing women and children on hoth, so long as whatever choices you make in his presence are good and wholesome.

 

therefore with zero consistency in the story, what do you care "who rewards you?"

 

you're saying this as if it BREAKS SOMETHING that isn't currently BROKEN.

 

So your basically saying that in the movies that anakin should be able to go back to the jedi after earning his "1000 darkside points" go to the jedi and say " Can i get my jedi robes?"(which keep in mind it involved helping to bring about the downfall of the jedi and the republic).

 

Also the point as to why your mentor doesn't change is dialog is because he doesn't hear/learn about details of what occured

[DarkSeverance]

Essentially - I plan to reach Light IV, the way things are right now, but my sporadic DS choices will prevent me from reaching Light V, ever.

No they won't. This would only happen if there wasn't a cap on points. You will actually cap out your Lightside points. When they are capped when you gain more Lightside points it removes the Darkside points. You will be able to reach Light V. So if you have 10,000 Lightside and 800 Darkside, and you gain another 200 Lightside. You will now have 10,000 Lightside and 600 Darkside.

[DarkSeverance]

your mentor or whoever you visit doesn't change his dialog. he doesn't scowl at you reproachfully for killing women and children on hoth, so long as whatever choices you make in his presence are good and wholesome.

I highlighted the important part. With Moral choices someone doesn't always know you've made a right or wrong answer so of course they aren't going to change dialog because you have more Darkside vs Lightside points.

 

I don't know you. I don't know if you could be some pyscho killer. If I ever met you in person I sure wouldn't treat you like a pyscho killer because I don't know you did those things. I'd treat you like anyone else. When you make moral decisions you don't wear a merit badge that shows you killed a bunch of innocent people. Now if you did them in front of me, there is a difference. However any decisions you do make in front of your mentor aren't enough for them to suddenly think you're becoming Darth Vader. Why do you think no one figures out Anakin is becoming evil. We all know he is, we see him make darkside choices all the time. But no one else does because they aren't there.

Edited December 28, 2011 by DarkSeverance

[Mephik]

Any old AO (Anarchy Online) heads care to weigh in on this one? FunCom seemed to do a pretty decent job implementing 3 distinct factions with the 3rd being a neutral alignment. If I remember correctly that neutral route was intended to be more difficult than going clan or omni-tek but it had it's unique rewards.

 

Sounds like some elements from that model could potentially be leveraged?

[Perforate]

Any old AO (Anarchy Online) heads care to weigh in on this one? FunCom seemed to do a pretty decent job implementing 3 distinct factions with the 3rd being a neutral alignment. If I remember correctly that neutral route was intended to be more difficult than going clan or omni-tek but it had it's unique rewards.

 

Sounds like some elements from that model could potentially be leveraged?

 

AO Vet here, while I tried the neutral way on my trader it turned out to be subpar to either Clan or Omni so I ended up switching to Clan in the end ( all my friends were Clan ). Would be nice to see a neutral path in SWTOR but don't hold your breath...

[Gaxon]

i mean, i can see why the alignment gain displayed is necessary because you made it so what you select (as text) is NEVER what the character actually says (15% of the time the character will actually say something that is the complete opposite of what you intended, like you COULD get that implied meaning from the text blurb, but it would be absurd to make that assumption)

 

i don't see why you decided to make it so cryptic and simply didn't go with:

 

harsh refusal

polite refusal

aggressive response (attack)

 

the guessing game sucks. should have made it so it's an exact word for word transcript of what will be said, or show the player the actual intent of the responses.

 

but yeah, alignment gain display MUST be displayed in this game because you designed it poorly.

 

just another tangent rant

 

Turn it on under options. Amazing how people claim poor design over an option that is actually in the game.

[DarkSeverance]

its shocking people dont understand how lightside/darkside works in this

I can actually understand someone not really getting it though. Unless they are a fan of Star Wars in a way or have understand the concept and philosophy behind it, then they only view it as a game mechanic.

 

Now as a WoW and EQ player, this is actually an easy concept to understand though. You kill pirates and you Bloodsail faction points. But by killing those mobs you gain negative faction with Booty Bay. Until eventually you become friendly Bloodsail but KOS (kill on sight) with Booty Bay. In order to get it back, you have to now do things to lose faction with Bloodsail and gain Booty Bay faction otherwise you continue to lose access to neutral towns. Keep in mind you can't be both, you can only be one.

[Tadshackles]

as i have said before, this isn't weighed as a moral compass, this is a game. in real life, the good or bad choices you make are rewarded instantly by the outcome of any encounter you might have. this is not the case in the game. which is why the system does not make sense

 

 

You have some valid concerns and I want to hit on 2 of them.

 

You made a comment about being paid to dig a hole and mix concrete... That is a poor analogy. It would be better described like this... like a teeter totter that is perfectly balanced. each DS/LS point is a small bit of weight on one end. you get rewards for teetering or tottering not for how much weight you pile on top of it. Make sense? your rewards are from your current alignment not the number of points you have accumulated.

 

Teeter Totter may have other names like See-Saw or man-scale... But you get the idea.

 

And your above quoted rant is also flawed. Lets say the Washington DC sniper got out of prison and donated 10 dollars to the boys & girls club... It doesn't make him a good philanthropist... It makes him a murderer who gave ten dollars... He would need to do WAY more work before being considered a good person, ya dig?

[Gun_Slinger]

Why would you get rewards for not choosing a side? Who gives you the reward, the not-Republic or the not-Empire? By

 

. Light/Dark is not Republic/Empire. You can be neutral and still work for the Rep or Emp. Kthxbai.

[WarTornPanda]

People are being way too literal with the system. Comparing it to real life is pretty silly.

 

Man saves 50 people. Same man murders 50 people.

 

Man is neutral? No. He's a murderer.

 

Then there are other factors... Did he previously murder 50 people and then seek redemption by saving 50 people? Did he alternatively murder and save each individual? Did he previously save 50 people and then go on a killing spree in which he killed 50 people?

 

Comparing the binary system of good/evil in this game to real life is stupid and needs to stop.

[Knoxpwns]

Why would you get rewards for not choosing a side? Who gives you the reward, the not-Republic or the not-Empire? By

 

Then what about, for example, Bounty Hunter?

 

Good or bad, it doesn't matter. I am not working for either side. whoever can sign the biggest paycheck is going to win my attention until the job is done.

 

 

 

Also, there is some times where the obvious good or bad isn't really fitting at all. for example, in my class quest, I found my imprisoned arch-enemy, so I force him to beg for his release, and when he does, I go "jk go **** yourself" and leave him in the ship to rot, the ship that I will be momentarily blowing to hell with the entire crew aboard just to prove a point. Meanwhile, I disable any chance they have at saving themselves so I can be 100% sure they all die in the vacuum of space, and that's if the explosions don't rip and mangle their flesh beforehand.

 

+100 light side.

 

 

Clearly I was being a nice guy there.

[Gun_Slinger]

I highlighted the important part. With Moral choices someone doesn't always know you've made a right or wrong answer so of course they aren't going to change dialog because you have more Darkside vs Lightside points.

 

I don't know you. I don't know if you could be some pyscho killer. If I ever met you in person I sure wouldn't treat you like a pyscho killer because I don't know you did those things. I'd treat you like anyone else. When you make moral decisions you don't wear a merit badge that shows you killed a bunch of innocent people. Now if you did them in front of me, there is a difference. However any decisions you do make in front of your mentor aren't enough for them to suddenly think you're becoming Darth Vader. Why do you think no one figures out Anakin is becoming evil. We all know he is, we see him make darkside choices all the time. But no one else does because they aren't there.

 

Yeah, except most of the time the person you are talking to is either like five feet away from the site of your atrocities or would have heard about them, either through the force, or through the SCREAMS.

[KerinKor]

but yeah, alignment gain display MUST be displayed in this game because you designed it poorly.

You do know the alignment of responses you can give CAN be displayed if you choose, right?

[DarkSeverance]

Yeah, except most of the time the person you are talking to is either like five feet away from the site of your atrocities or would have heard about them, either through the force, or through the SCREAMS.

Not really. If they would of heard it simply through the force then everyone would know Anakin was slipping to evil. I also play a Jedi Shadow, it is his job to not be seen or heard through the force. How else can a character lie to Jedi Masters and tell them something didn't happen but it did (which happens in game a few times).

[Dekadez]

Neutral rewards are in the works, they simply couldn't get them in time for launch. Patience.

 

Exactly. They did not have enough time to create neutral items, next to dark and light items, and introduce them.

 

We have to cut Bioware some slack. They simply did not have enough time to do this basic task. They should be given more time to develop the game.

[TheOrangeJuicer]

Have they said they will be releasing more items from the dark/light side merchants? Maybe I speak for the minority, but it really feels like these merchants are lacking. I play a Sith Marauder and the merchants have no medium armor at all. Only heavy and light which is sort of a slap in the face. Unless I'm an idiot and looking in the wrong place. The relics are somewhat decent, but nothing I was too excited about.

[wikimon]

You do know the alignment of responses you can give CAN be displayed if you choose, right?

 

yes, if you actually READ the post you'd comprehend i was explaining the game cannot be played without it ON

 

<facepalm>

[joshohelp]

you guys are complaining about something that is very iconic in star wars games and thestar wars movies (light - dark choices- they had it in KotoR they had it in KotoR 2 the had it in Dragon age/ mass effect and now TOR.. it was also in star wars movies.. anakin had a choice kill mace and help the emperor or help Mace.... stop complaining about it.. it is there and changing it would mean reworking the whole game

[wikimon]

It would be better described like this... like a teeter totter that is perfectly balanced. each DS/LS point is a small bit of weight on one end. you get rewards for teetering or tottering not for how much weight you pile on top of it.

 

no one is disputing the mechanics of the system, we know how it works.

 

we're saying there's no GAME to the system at all. you might as well start your character and lock in light or dark and never have the option to select other choices in dialog, because that's how the game was DESIGNED to be played.

 

you're rewarded for one or the other. not for thinking for yourself

[DarkSeverance]

you might as well start your character and lock in light or dark and never have the option to select other choices in dialog, because that's how the game was DESIGNED to be played.

But if that was done, there would be no opportunity to redeem yourself or further fall down the path to the dark side. It is all about the journey. That is what roleplaying is about.

[wikimon]

You don't shoot yourself in the foot at all. Have you actually looked at the items that require alignment vs what you have access to that don't require alignment?

 

sure i'll do that. link me the item database where i can browse all the items available to me for my level and where i can acquire them.

[DarkSeverance]

sure i'll do that. link me the item database where i can browse all the items available to me for my level and where i can acquire them.

http://www.torhead.com/

http://www.darthhater.com/