Alignment doesn't make sense, BioLucas

[Emencie]

The fact that by not focusing on light or dark regardless of what the actual dialogue options are completely gimps a character was not a good idea! Not to mention that the darkside lightside points seem to be given out at complete random. Saving a woman from certain death and at the same time risking the lives of thousands... is lightsided? Helping a republic trooper’s unit desert from the military because it’s "harder than they thought it would be" is Lightsided? Really?

 

I cannot use a large percentage of the gear I come across from venders and on the galactic market. Still at 30+ I do not have a relic... not because I haven’t found one. As a treasure hunter I have found dozens of relics. Not to mention the many on the Galactic Market. I just can’t equip them because I’m neutral and don’t meet the DS/LS requirements. Dozens of lightsabers and armor I see daily, I cannot use, because my alignment is not dark or light enough.

 

It’s really stupid.

 

So the republic will reward people who blindly follow the letter of the law and are in every aspect of their being, good and holy. The Republic will reward vile people who kill indiscriminately, extort money out of everyone who they meet and likely kick puppies. But a person with a kind heart who is profit oriented but refrains from crossing the line (murder) except for the direst of situations, is just SOL because he’s not evil or good enough?

 

Why even have lightsided and darksided choices if you are just going to gimp and punish those that don’t adhere to one side or the other? I feel like you may as well have placed a check box on character creation Lightsided or Darksided. Then my character could just automatically pick whatever option has the correct Icon next to it. That’s all we are supposed to do anyways right? Most of the people I’ve started to play with just chose one option or the other context doesn’t matter just stock up lightsided or darksided points. Last night one of my guild mates referred to dialogue options as alignment farming.

 

Is this all it’s supposed to be? How many people are just ignoring dialogue options and alignment in general and just picking one side or the other to gain access to gear they like the look of? I suppose since your alignment has no effect outside the look of the gear you wear it really shouldn’t matter but I’m not exactly happy with the idea of just picking DS/LS solely because if I don’t pick the right one every time I’m penalized in my options of gear I can wear. Nevermind that armor class already makes it so my class has the fewest cosmetic options of every class in the game.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Emencie

[Xploits]

I guess I just enjoy being a bounty hunter for myself. My only limitation is the the Jedi are not hiring BH's otherwise I'd have another way to source my income. I like trying to play a character that is more or less not tied to a side but simply exists there.

 

I speak in credits.

I kill if I want to kill.

I save if its in my interest.

I try to keep my crew happy.

 

It how I play my BH and it would be nice if rewards existed for it.

[Keeheen]

why give us options if the only way to get rewarded in the game for your choices is to pick ALL THE GOOD ONES, or ALL THE BAD ONES?

 

why make it so you shoot yourself in the knee by answering the questions as you think your character would?

 

alignment rewards should not be lightpoints - darkpoints = reward level. this makes no sense. if i've painstakingly accrued 1000 lightpoints and 1000 darkpoints i should be able to choose lightrank I and darkrank I rewards.

 

the system makes no sense at all as it stands. you're only rewarded for making the correct side choice every time, and you don't even make it a challenge by allowing UI to turn on gain displayed in the conversation choices.

 

tldr: go light 100% or dark 100% because being different means you get nothing

 

So let me get this right you want to reward people for being French?

[PerpetualGamer]

sounds like an attitude that would get you forcechoked to death within 5 seconds of any encounter with sith if this was anywhere close to resembling a real roleplaying game

 

So, very very true. God bless my character basically being a god amongst men as far as npc's are concerned.

[Ardelia]

If you help the republic and turn coat to the empire the empire should reward you, but very little because you are untrustworthy.a

 

Light v. Dark != Republic v. Empire

 

Your reward for being dark doesn't come from the Empire.

[wikimon]

Is this all it’s supposed to be? How many people are just ignoring dialogue options and alignment in general and just picking one side or the other to gain access to gear they like the look of?

 

yes, we've determined that you're punished for role playing in this RPG.

 

we're just trying to ascertain the depth the ramrod plumbs now...

[Volacious]

Bioware just needs to add Grey rewards with 2 requirements:

 

1. the delta between your DS and LS points must be very small to be considered "Grey" (within 250 or something)

2. the sum of your DS and LS points determines your rank (1000 for Grey 1, 2000 for Grey 2, etc.)

 

And like DS/LS rewards, for Grey just add the same model as other rewards with a new "grey" color scheme.

 

Pretty simple and the whiners that feel they should be rewarded for compromise can ****.

[Nautius]

Another entitlement thread. Hooray!

 

Why does there have to be a "reward" system? I understand that's what you have been trained to think.

 

Why not just let it be? You are either light, neutral or dark.

 

I am not sure what you want to be "rewarded" for when making a decision?

 

Do you get rewarded for every decision you make in life? No.

 

So, why should this be any different?

 

This is another pointless thread.

[PerpetualGamer]

yes, we've determined that you're punished for role playing in this RPG.

 

we're just trying to ascertain the depth the ramrod plumbs now...

 

I find, that the only characters I get punished on are my "on the fence" characters, the characters who dont feel strongly one way or the other. Which makes sense that they would be punished. In reality we strive towards 1 goal, and do whatever it takes to get to that goal within the boundaries of our moral code.

 

Translation:

 

I Sith, I Hate Racism, I say things understanding that I am Equal to all others. I get good points, I NOT Penalized.

 

I Bounty Hunter, I Want Money, I want Money Now, I dont care how, I get Good and Bad Points, I NOT Penalized.

 

Really the problem isn't that you get light and dark, the problem is you dont get the "special looking" gear associated with light or dark.

[wikimon]

Bioware just needs to add Grey rewards with 2 requirements:

 

1. the delta between your DS and LS points must be very small to be considered "Grey" (within 250 or something)

2. the sum of your DS and LS points determines your rank (1000 for Grey 1, 2000 for Grey 2, etc.)

 

And like DS/LS rewards, for Grey just add the same model as other rewards with a new "grey" color scheme.

 

Pretty simple and the whiners that feel they should be rewarded for compromise can ****.

 

better solution, remove the light minus dark = alignment and just have it based on points per side.

 

4000 light 1000 dark = light 2 / dark 1, etc.

 

roleplay however you want then, you're still splitting your gains up and progressing slower than someone who went all one path. but at least you're not gimping yourself by doing so. not getting punished for roleplaying.

 

people need to stop crying about "JEDI WEARING SITH GEAR NOOOO" none of that even matters IN THE GAME. why are you making it an issue? if the jedi counsel doesn't care if you murder helpless children in this game, and you're still given the same option to succeed as a saint, then why are you making mountains about it as if it actually means anything.

[DarkSeverance]

I cannot use a large percentage of the gear I come across from venders and on the galactic market. Still at 30+ I do not have a relic... not because I haven’t found one. As a treasure hunter I have found dozens of relics. Not to mention the many on the Galactic Market. I just can’t equip them because I’m neutral and don’t meet the DS/LS requirements. Dozens of lightsabers and armor I see daily, I cannot use, because my alignment is not dark or light enough.

Ok since you brought up Relics and gave me a level number, let us compare Relics that a level 30 could use. I've only listed the Level 28 Relics. There are a total of 7 of them. All three of them have +21 Endurance and have an open mod slot.

http://www.torhead.com/items/slot/49/level/1-30

 

LIGHTSIDE:

Relic of Agile Promise: Light II, Level 27

- Increases Power by 125 for 20 seconds

Relic of Mindful Retribution: Light II, Level 28

- Increases Critical Rating and Surge Rating by 70 for 20 seconds

 

NEUTRAL:

Relic of Ardent Precision: Level 28 (no other requirement)

- Increases Alacrity Rating by 125 for 20 seconds

Relic of Guide Chaos: Level 28 (no other requirements0

- Increases Power by 125 for 20 seconds

Relic of the Veiled Exemplar: Level 28 (no other requirement)

- Increases Critical Rating and Surge Rating by 70 for 20 seconds

 

DARKSIDE:

Relic of Avenging Might: Dark II, Level 28

- Increases Critical Rating and Surge Rating by 70 for 20 seconds

Relic of Maddening Delusions: Dark II, Level 27

- Increases Alacrity Rating by 125 for 20 seconds

 

Here is a hint about the weapons you can't use. Most of the weapons you can't use are either A) Mod-able or B) Not Mod-able. The ones that aren't mod-able, you'll have to deal with not being able to use it. There are equal weapons just the same that don't have a requirement. Now the ones that are mod-able, the reason they have a requirement is usually because of the color crystal. Remove the color crystal and put in your own color crystal and now you can use the weapon.

[the_banana]

That doesn't make any sense though. Essentially the gear comes from the people who are reacting to your alignment. You do good things, you get gear basically from the Republic. You do bad things you get gear from the Empire. You don't do anything significant for either side you get what everyone else gets.

No, people. These aren't Republic-side and Empire-side points. You choose what side you're working for when you make your character.

 

Light-side and dark-side choices have nothing to do with working for one side or another. If I kill a Sith instead of sparing him and giving him a chance for redemption, that's dark-side, but it sure as hell isn't helping the Empire out.

 

"Neutral gear" should have the same restrictions as color crystals (i.e. "forbidden to Light Side I and above" and vice versa) but on both sides, so you can't use it if you've achieved a tier either way. Of course, you can still have issues with a person's natural choices resulting in straying into tier I dark-/light-side, but there's not much of a way around that without completely changing how the mechanic works or just giving people access to light-/dark-side gear based on only the tally of one-side or another instead of the net total (which I am against).

[DarkSeverance]

No, people. These aren't Republic-side and Empire-side points. You choose what side you're working for when you make your character.

They aren't but from a storytelling standpoint, a roleplaying standpoint, a game-master standpoint, a lore standpoint where do you think the gear comes from?

 

There is a reason the Lightside Vendor and Darkside Vendor aren't the same vendor and they are on opposite ends of the station. Naturally more Empire related, darkside related items get smuggled in and sold from a darkside vendor. The same happens for Republic as well. Everyone just tries to break it down as a game mechanic. I did X, I should get Y. But they aren't a reward system. It is more a way to identify more closely to your alignment. Why do you think some of the "Empirish, Darth Vaderish" looking armor requires darkside points.

 

Case in point from the novels. Spoilers for anyone hasn't read the novels, sorry. Jacen Solo is all goody goody. He works for the Republic. He eventually becomes a Darth. He starts wearing Darth Vaderish armor and cloak. He still works from the Republic. Except no one with lightside would be caught dead wearing what he is wearing. He even relates to Darth Vader as he wasn't a bad guy. He is still Republic. He however is about a Dark IV at that point. Yet he does not work for the Empire and he is not a Sith.

[Emencie]

/snip.

 

Nice list never encountered any non alignment based relics. Nice to know some exist. But there is still a problem. by your own list the people that just pick one side or the other midlessly get 66% more choices in potential Relics at this level. and that means 66% higer chance of getting one they can use. That is a penalty plain and simple.

 

As far as color crystals go. They are different. color crystals are restricted from alignments. Not manditory to have alignments. In other words the lightsaber is (requires light side II) The crystal are (restricted darkside I and above) there is a big difference. One neutrals can use the other they cannot. Neutrals can use every color crystal.

 

the lightsabers actually require alignments its not the color crystal at all. You just cant use gear because you are not evil or good enough.

[wikimon]

just giving people access to light-/dark-side gear based on only the tally of one-side or another instead of the net total (which I am against).

 

why pray-tell would you be against this?

 

it's like having a medal for completing a marathon, and one person ran directly there in an hour. then complaining about someone else getting a medal after running all around town for 5 hours before finally completing it.

[Demonix]

why make it so you shoot yourself in the knee

 

You mean with an arrow here right, not with a blaster?

[Caelith]

Neutral rewards are in the works, they simply couldn't get them in time for launch. Patience.

 

Then why allow people to be neutral?

 

They have planned a alignment system for years now and not having anything for neutral is incredibly stupid.

 

Would love to know who they had working on it.

[Nautius]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=856725&posted=1#post856725

 

^^This^^

 

Specifically #4... yes, I am looking at you, OP.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Nautius

[Emencie]

They aren't but from a storytelling standpoint, a roleplaying standpoint, a game-master standpoint, a lore standpoint where do you think the gear comes from?

 

There is a reason the Lightside Vendor and Darkside Vendor aren't the same vendor and they are on opposite ends of the station. Naturally more Empire related, darkside related items get smuggled in and sold from a darkside vendor. The same happens for Republic as well. Everyone just tries to break it down as a game mechanic. I did X, I should get Y. But they aren't a reward system. It is more a way to identify more closely to your alignment. Why do you think some of the "Empirish, Darth Vaderish" looking armor requires darkside points.

 

what? You do realize that even if you are 100% darkside you are still fighting againt the Empire as your DS republic character?

 

Think about what you are saying...

 

Emperor: This guy is killing all my troops, sacking my capital ships, and helping the republic to defeat my army! But he is pretty evil... So lets send him better gear so he can look like us.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Emencie

[CorranTyev]

okay how about this, you get paid 5 bucks an hour for shoveling a hole. you can also get paid 5 bucks an hour for mixing this cement.

 

you shoveled a hole for an hour. i shoveled a hold for an hour AND ALSO mixed cement for an hour.

 

you got paid, i didn't

 

where is the fairness?

 

Technically dark points are negative points on the dark/light bar. So a more accurate analogy would be getting paid 5 bucks to shovel a hole for an hour and then paying five bucks to mix cement for an hour, which means you would be at zero dollars.

 

Also life isn't fair.

 

[VisionStorm]

While I have been enjoying the voice over dialog options regardless, I have to agree with the OP that its only the illusion of a choice if you attach rewards for making ALL LS or ALL DS choices. Also, some options that get you LS or DS points make no sense, or are so subjective and open to interpretation there's little point to attach special rewards for making the "right" ALL LS or DS choices.

 

I've been in a couple of dialogs already where I get LS points for helping people decieve their love ones (parents or spouses) rather than come clean on their intentions, and DS points for trying to keep them honest. Which didn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I like the dialog options, but I think that alignment should only affect the flow of the story, not bring special rewards with it.

[DarkSeverance]

Nice list never encountered any non alignment based relics. Nice to know some exist. But there is still a problem. by your own list the people that just pick one side or the other midlessly get 66% more choices in potential Relics at this level. and that means 66% higer chance of getting one they can use. That is a penalty plain and simple.

You'll have to explain your math to me because that makes no sense. If you are just talking about Level 28 and could somehow determine that your drop would only randomly come from one of those seven items. That means Neutral has a 42% (3 useable items out of 7) chance to get something they can use, Light has a 28% (2 useable items out of 7) chance to get an item they can use and Darkside has a 28% (2 useable items out of 7) chance to get an item they can use.

 

Now if you are talking about someone who is Neutral and that their chances of getting a Lightside/Darkside required item are more than getting a Neutral one. Sure. Then we'd be looking at 57% chance of getting one that requires Light/Dark (4 not useable items out of 7). But that was if we are only pulling from that specific pool of items. With that in mind, yes someone who doesn't choose sides has more chances to get something they can't use. Now imagine the person who did choose a side. They have a 71% chance of getting something they can't use (2 useable items out of 7).

 

However... that was if it was being picked from a controlled pool with a limited amount. But its all random. Random is still random. The pool is a lot bigger than that.

 

If I look at total relics from that are from Levels 15-30, there are a total of 40 of them. 20 of them have a lightside/darkside requirement. 20 of them do not. When you actually look at the gear, the advantage actually comes out for those going Neutral.

 

Now if someone wants to be Neutral and look like Darth Vader... well I'd have to disagree. If you want to look like Darth Vader then you should be Darkside aligned. A good number of people who complain about the system, complain because they want to have that cool looking armor set but don't' have to have to be darkside/lightside required to wear it... not because of the actual mechanics. They use that as an excuse.

[Emencie]

You'll have to explain your math to me because that makes no sense. If you are just talking about Level 28 and could somehow determine that your drop would only randomly come from one of those seven items. That means Neutral has a 42% (3 useable items out of 7) chance to get something they can use, Light has a 28% (2 useable items out of 7) chance to get an item they can use and Darkside has a 28% (2 useable items out of 7) chance to get an item they can use.

 

Its because you are forgetting that the LS DS felas can use the neutral gear. out of the 7 possible relic drops LS can use 5 not 2. And DS can use 5… Neutral can only use 3. So LS /DS can use 71% of the dropped relics. And neutral can only use 42%.

The available relics 5 vs 3 (2 more) is roughly a 66% increase if you are LS or DS. It’s a problem that by being not 100% LS/DS you are effectively cutting your chances at getting useable gear.

[Staticclean]

Why look at light side and dark side as currency? It should be like it is in the movies. You do things that tip you one way or another. The more dark side things you do, the more on the dark side you will be come. It's a pretty simple.

 

I think they should take out the independent light/dark points and just have the bar. If you're at 1000 light points and do a dark deed, you will now be below 1000 light points.

 

Have different rewards for dark light and neutral, of course dark and light having better perks than neutral (maybe colors that are more sought after), but keep them balanced.

[DarkSeverance]

what? You do realize that even if you are 100% darkside you are still fighting againt the Empire as your DS character?

 

Think about what you are saying...

 

Emperor: This guy is killing all my troops, sacking my capital ships, and helping the republic to defeat my army! But he is pretty evil... So lets send him better gear so he can look like us.

That is because there is no game mechanic to switch sides. I'm not asking for one either, that creates another set of headaches the game isn't ready for. Darth Caedus (Jacen Solo) worked for the Republic. He wasn't the Empire but he did start a civil war and killed many innocent people. He was darkside but still loyal to the Republic because he believed everything he did was for the betterment of the Republic not because he was switching sides. But anyone wearing Darth Vader armor would be associated with the Empire. In fact his troops were often referred to as Stormtroopers even though they weren't because of it.

 

Just because someone works for the Republic, doesn't mean they are only fighting for the Republic or have their ideals in mind while they do this. There are many people who believe in the Empire, but don't believe in the Darkside or the Sith that are working for the Republic. There are many people who believe in the ideals of the Republic but are with the Empire. They struggle to change it from within. Have none of you people ever read the books or actually paid attention to the storylines of your choices and the why. These examples are even given within the first 15 levels of the game through most of the classes.

 

Also how do you think double agents exist? The whole universe is nothing but filled with double agents, people trying to survive in area space controlled by their factions (ie: Empire or Republic). Just because someone is serving the Republic it doesn't automatically make them a good guy who only makes lightside choices.

 

WoW does the same thing. You get access to gear, from their vendors because you grind faction and become friendly with their cause. It doesn't mean you've left the Horde or the Alliance. However that is where the gear comes from both storyline, lorewise and in game mechanic wise.