Disappointed at the New Chapter(Spoilers)

[Codedrago]

It got NOTHING to do with your power,

I never said it did.

but your plan and skill to infiltrate.

Which, again, isn't such a simple matter.

So why should you hear some nonsense from the NPCs and give up the way you are following?

You don't have to, you can literally outright refuse to give up your ideals.

 

Because this is the way of the Light Side?

So?

[Slowpokeking]

I never said it did.

 

So isn't this chapter pointless?

 

Which, again, isn't such a simple matter.

But it got little to do your duelist skill with Arcann.

 

You don't have to, you can literally outright refuse to give up your ideals.

But why did others, the Jedi and Sith leaders try to convince you to? This is plain stupid and a blow to their character.

 

So?

So she should come with us, unless the story gives us some explanation like this was prepared for Vitiate, not Arcann, it would have made a lot of sense.

[Codedrago]

So isn't this chapter pointless?

 

 

Nope.

 

But it got little to do your duelist skill with Arcann.

 

 

Well, if you want to beat Arcann, it does.

 

But why did others, the Jedi and Sith leaders try to convince you to? This is plain stupid and a blow to their character.

 

It's completely in character, they're characters have been faced with impossible odds and contradictions to their previous beliefs. They've developed.

 

 

So she should come with us, unless the story gives us some explanation like this was prepared for Vitiate, not Arcann, it would have made a lot of sense.

 

She should come with us because it's the lightside thing to do? She follows the will of the force, the force is calling her away. The force isn't only the light.

[Paxilion]

they could do a better job explaining why we arent as beast as in our class stories, or else really sell us on Arcan's power. I mean how is it that my SI has the same repercussions as a common criminal when using Valkorion's power?So far we just get "yeah you're pretty good, but the story says you need to be a lot more mortal than you've been in the past...so....yeah."

[ganondorq]

said it before and i'll say it again, arcann's only this big threat because of bioware writing only one story that we have to share with the non-force users. it cheapens us so much that it's like this.

 

i will never see him as what they're saying he is in this chapter. he didn't even really beat us on asylum, he surprise grabbed us because of valkorion's stupid crap timing us back in without warning. we let our guard down because of valk, that's it.

Edited April 6, 2016 by ganondorq

[Yermog]

I'm more freaked out by Vitiate's reaction to a toon who hasn't accepted his help. He was hardcore hostile to my Sith Warrior! I was a little freaked out to be honest, I kind of expect him to come back and have everyone that she loves assassinated as a punishment for her or something! OR choose a new host and have that host wipe out the Alliance completely. Who knows what he's up to now.

 

 

Also, he AND Marr AND Satele basically told my Sith Warrior "Oh, by the way, you're going to be Empress of the Eternal Throne, so, yeah, better get ready for that." And I really wish there was an option to react like Malcolm did in Malcolm in the Middle where his parents tell him they expect him to be president and he freaks out (in the show he says "I don't want to be President!" and they basically say "Well, too bad for you," which would probably be the reaction that she'd get anyway, but that's beside the point).

 

My thing is, if ALL the toons are supposed to be the new Immortal Emperor/Empress, how are they supposed to handle that? My Smuggler and Bounty Hunter would basically go "F**K THAT!" My Bounty Hunter grew up on a farm for crying out loud! She hunted people for a living! How does any of that translate to being a freaking EMPRESS?! There needed to be a panic attack thrown in there somewhere, because you just do not drop a bombshell on someone like that and then disappear (which Vitiate, Marr, and Satele all did). How was I supposed to react to that news?!

 

[Codedrago]

I'm more freaked out by Vitiate's reaction to a toon who hasn't accepted his help. He was hardcore hostile to my Sith Warrior! I was a little freaked out to be honest, I kind of expect him to come back and have everyone that she loves assassinated as a punishment for her or something! OR choose a new host and have that host wipe out the Alliance completely. Who knows what he's up to now.

 

 

Also, he AND Marr AND Satele basically told my Sith Warrior "Oh, by the way, you're going to be Empress of the Eternal Throne, so, yeah, better get ready for that." And I really wish there was an option to react like Malcolm did in Malcolm in the Middle where his parents tell him they expect him to be president and he freaks out (in the show he says "I don't want to be President!" and they basically say "Well, too bad for you," which would probably be the reaction that she'd get anyway, but that's beside the point).

 

My thing is, if ALL the toons are supposed to be the new Immortal Emperor/Empress, how are they supposed to handle that? My Smuggler and Bounty Hunter would basically go "F**K THAT!" My Bounty Hunter grew up on a farm for crying out loud! She hunted people for a living! How does any of that translate to being a freaking EMPRESS?! There needed to be a panic attack thrown in there somewhere, because you just do not drop a bombshell on someone like that and then disappear (which Vitiate, Marr, and Satele all did). How was I supposed to react to that news?!

 

Would they really freak out? And not just simply tell the three to bugger off. "I'm not a ruler, I'm turning that fleet into scrap metal. Might take the throne though, looks like a very comfy chair"

[Crossward]

As far as surprising Jedi go, that's literally the best way to kill them, including in canon.

 

Order 66 has individually weak troopers taking Jedi by surprise. If you watch the movie, Aayla Secura wasn't even overwhelmed by troopers--she just gets shot before she even has the chance to draw her lightsaber an the others then unload their blasters into her corpse! The Kel'dor Jedi pilot and the one on the speeder likewise never see the attack coming--they're just one-shotted by the clonetrooper ships.

 

Going back to KOTOR, Atton Rand has killed Jedi before by taking them by surprise. Not enough? The Jedi Exile, who killed the Triumvirate is killed by surprise when Lord Scourge suddenly betrays her.

 

Don't forget that you can outright lie to Jadus, tricking him into thinking you've joined him and then drop a rayshield on his head. A Sith Warror can hide his presence while Darth Ekkage (Dark Council level) and Lord Melicoste are having a 5 minute conversation.

 

This goes all the way to the very top! Valkorion was killed either by Arcann surprising him, or by your character, which can be a trooper or smuggler or agent! The Agent is actually a good one for this, since the agent is incapable of resisting the Dread Masters on Belsavis while the BH can at least put up some resistance.

 

Speaking of the Dread Masters, the six of them (including powerful precog Calphayus) were surprised by Master Kaedan.

 

But the best one? Palpatine was killed when Vader surprised him and threw him off the catwalk.

 

This one is key. Order 66 *might* have been a legitimate case because the clones didn't project any hate. Atton Rand is trained, and Lord Scourge didn't plan on betraying the Exile, it was spur of the moment. Even Valkorion might have planned for this (he hints at it in Chapter XII). But Vader? No, Vader stared at Luke, had an emotional moment where he made the conscious decision to fight the Emperor, yelled "no", then proceeded to surprise kill the first or second most powerful Sith in history.

 

The point is, being able to be taken by surprise doesn't mean you're a weak force user. In fact, it seems that surprise kills are the most reliable way TO kill powerful Force users. Force sense may work well when you're focusing on a target in a combat situation, but its nothing a talented individual can't get past.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Crossward

[Slowpokeking]

As far as surprising Jedi go, that's literally the best way to kill them, including in canon.

 

Order 66 has individually weak troopers taking Jedi by surprise. If you watch the movie, Aayla Secura wasn't even overwhelmed by troopers--she just gets shot before she even has the chance to draw her lightsaber an the others then unload their blasters into her corpse! The Kel'dor Jedi pilot and the one on the speeder likewise never see the attack coming--they're just one-shotted by the clonetrooper ships.

 

Going back to KOTOR, Atton Rand has killed Jedi before by taking them by surprise. Not enough? The Jedi Exile, who killed the Triumvirate is killed by surprise when Lord Scourge suddenly betrays her.

 

Don't forget that you can outright lie to Jadus, tricking him into thinking you've joined him and then drop a rayshield on his head. A Sith Warror can hide his presence while Darth Ekkage (Dark Council level) and Lord Melicoste are having a 5 minute conversation.

 

This goes all the way to the very top! Valkorion was killed either by Arcann surprising him, or by your character, which can be a trooper or smuggler or agent! The Agent is actually a good one for this, since the agent is incapable of resisting the Dread Masters on Belsavis while the BH can at least put up some resistance.

 

Speaking of the Dread Masters, the six of them (including powerful precog Calphayus) were surprised by Master Kaedan.

 

But the best one? Palpatine was killed when Vader surprised him and threw him off the catwalk.

 

This one is key. Order 66 *might* have been a legitimate case because the clones didn't project any hate. Atton Rand is trained, and Lord Scourge didn't plan on betraying the Exile, it was spur of the moment. Even Valkorion might have planned for this (he hints at it in Chapter XII). But Vader? No, Vader stared at Luke, had an emotional moment where he made the conscious decision to fight the Emperor, yelled "no", then proceeded to surprise kill the first or second most powerful Sith in history.

 

The point is, being able to be taken by surprise doesn't mean you're a weak force user. In fact, it seems that surprise kills are the most reliable way TO kill powerful Force users. Force sense may work well when you're focusing on a target in a combat situation, but its nothing a talented individual can't get past.

But these are all performed by powerful figures or the clones that outnumbered their commanders, Arcann's case was different.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

Well, if you want to beat Arcann, it does.

I just need to bring some help.

 

 

 

It's completely in character, they're characters have been faced with impossible odds and contradictions to their previous beliefs. They've developed.

it's not impossible since they know about other great Jedi/Sith, why would they abandon their way to take on someone like Arcann?

 

She should come with us because it's the lightside thing to do? She follows the will of the force, the force is calling her away. The force isn't only the light.

That's not what Jedi do, especially Grandmaster, they keep the galaxy safe.

[Yermog]

Would they really freak out? And not just simply tell the three to bugger off. "I'm not a ruler, I'm turning that fleet into scrap metal. Might take the throne though, looks like a very comfy chair"

Well, my smuggler would freak out once she realized they weren't joking. She would defiantly not consider herself to be 'leadership' material. She's used to working from behind the scenes. Being commander is stressful enough for her.

 

My Bounty Hunter might tell them to get lost in the way you described, though. That is a pretty sweet chair.

[Crossward]

But these are all performed by powerful figures or the clones that outnumbered their commanders, Arcann's case was different.

 

Are you sure?

 

Cipher 9 tricked Jadus. Let's be clear on this: 9, an agent who 1) has the least amount of force resistance among the 4 Imperial classes (the agent can't resist the Dread Masters like the BH and Sith can), and 2) Hasn't had his/her programming removed yet, tricks and surprises a Dark Council Member that Valkorion calls the Empire's greatest Sith, and that has power second only to the Emperor

 

Kaedan, who isn't exactly the strongest Jedi in the world (when you fight him on Ilum he's a silver level enemy), ambushed the Dread Masters.

 

Watch Aayla Secura get gunned down by the clone troopers. Yes there are a lot of clones, but she goes down to one blaster bolt before she even draws her saber. This wasn't a many-vs-one scenario. They only gang up on her AFTER she's on the ground and dying.

 

Vader doesn't show off his incredible power when he kills the Emperor. Far from it, he literally just picks him up and walks him over to the ledge and hurls him off. Anyone with a defensive cooldown could do that!

 

If the above can happen, I'm pretty sure we can't fault Arcann for not sensing Lana or Kothe

[Slowpokeking]

Are you sure?

 

Cipher 9 tricked Jadus. Let's be clear on this: 9, an agent who 1) has the least amount of force resistance among the 4 Imperial classes (the agent can't resist the Dread Masters like the BH and Sith can), and 2) Hasn't had his/her programming removed yet, tricks and surprises a Dark Council Member that Valkorion calls the Empire's greatest Sith, and that has power second only to the Emperor

 

Kaedan, who isn't exactly the strongest Jedi in the world (when you fight him on Ilum he's a silver level enemy), ambushed the Dread Masters.

 

Watch Aayla Secura get gunned down by the clone troopers. Yes there are a lot of clones, but she goes down to one blaster bolt before she even draws her saber. This wasn't a many-vs-one scenario. They only gang up on her AFTER she's on the ground and dying.

 

Vader doesn't show off his incredible power when he kills the Emperor. Far from it, he literally just picks him up and walks him over to the ledge and hurls him off. Anyone with a defensive cooldown could do that!

 

If the above can happen, I'm pretty sure we can't fault Arcann for not sensing Lana or Kothe

No, the program was installed after that showdown. From previous battle, it's clear that the agent is very strong already, after the incident, he/she was able to take on a former Jedi Master. Jadus likes him/her because of the skill.

 

Kaedan was a strong Jedi, he also got a strike team with him.

 

Aayla wasn't even a master.

 

But Vader was very powerful despite being injured, he could take on the lightning for so long and didn't release the grasp to let the Emperor get away.

 

Is Lana a strong Sith? Maybe, but Koth? Nah.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Crossward]

Koth isn't just some nobody though. He was an officer in Zakuul's army and helped Arcann conquer the galaxy until the Denan massacre. Is he as strong as the PC? Probably not, but he's likely in the same tier as Atton Rand, who can surprise kill Jedi.

 

As for Lana, let's not sell her short. The 6th Line Commander who has a razor-focus on her duty was turned by the Emperor, and Lana managed to resist him. If she can do that, she can probably sneak up on Arcann.

[LordXantor]

As far as surprising Jedi go, that's literally the best way to kill them, including in canon.

 

Order 66 has individually weak troopers taking Jedi by surprise. If you watch the movie, Aayla Secura wasn't even overwhelmed by troopers--she just gets shot before she even has the chance to draw her lightsaber an the others then unload their blasters into her corpse! The Kel'dor Jedi pilot and the one on the speeder likewise never see the attack coming--they're just one-shotted by the clonetrooper ships.

 

Going back to KOTOR, Atton Rand has killed Jedi before by taking them by surprise. Not enough? The Jedi Exile, who killed the Triumvirate is killed by surprise when Lord Scourge suddenly betrays her.

 

Don't forget that you can outright lie to Jadus, tricking him into thinking you've joined him and then drop a rayshield on his head. A Sith Warror can hide his presence while Darth Ekkage (Dark Council level) and Lord Melicoste are having a 5 minute conversation.

 

This goes all the way to the very top! Valkorion was killed either by Arcann surprising him, or by your character, which can be a trooper or smuggler or agent! The Agent is actually a good one for this, since the agent is incapable of resisting the Dread Masters on Belsavis while the BH can at least put up some resistance.

 

Speaking of the Dread Masters, the six of them (including powerful precog Calphayus) were surprised by Master Kaedan.

 

But the best one? Palpatine was killed when Vader surprised him and threw him off the catwalk.

 

This one is key. Order 66 *might* have been a legitimate case because the clones didn't project any hate. Atton Rand is trained, and Lord Scourge didn't plan on betraying the Exile, it was spur of the moment. Even Valkorion might have planned for this (he hints at it in Chapter XII). But Vader? No, Vader stared at Luke, had an emotional moment where he made the conscious decision to fight the Emperor, yelled "no", then proceeded to surprise kill the first or second most powerful Sith in history.

 

The point is, being able to be taken by surprise doesn't mean you're a weak force user. In fact, it seems that surprise kills are the most reliable way TO kill powerful Force users. Force sense may work well when you're focusing on a target in a combat situation, but its nothing a talented individual can't get past.

 

clones from begining was programed to kill jedi and stronger force users was killed by Vader in person not clones

 

atton was force sensitive

 

agent was quite strong

 

Valkurion is very arrogant so even if he think about he will be taking by surprise he think "thats inpossible"

(arkan still fear father so he expect unexpected)

 

Kaedam was a strong Jedi

 

Vader was a Chosen One and Palpatine think he is his slave without will

Edited April 6, 2016 by LordXantor

[thebumpkin]

i will never see him as what they're saying he is in this chapter. he didn't even really beat us on asylum, he surprise grabbed us because of valkorion's stupid crap timing us back in without warning. we let our guard down because of valk, that's it.

 

I perceive it the same way personally. Also had Valkorian helped at the start instead of when he did Arcann may well have been defeated there and then. Valkorian has annoyed me the whole way through with his vagueness and his condescending treatment. If I were to ask his favourite colour he'd probably reply that "colour is an illusion and merely the splitting of light into its component parts etc etc etc..."

 

Instead of just. "Don't have one."

 

This is my point you ask Valkorion some direct questions and like a true politician he deflects them or responds in vague aloof talk, or just dismisses it totally as "You wouldn't understand." He's a pompous ****** and I have no time for his unusual brand of crap.

 

The story is very much a railroad though I am enjoying, but the latest chapter doesn't make an abundance of sense to me. So, to be ready to beat Arcann and Vaylin all we had to do was run round a forest, kill a few predators, and then make a new weapon with some scrap from Satele Shan's ship?

 

Also how does this new weapon work anyway?

Edited April 6, 2016 by thebumpkin

[r-zaft]

Uh, our 1 on 1 duels with Arcann didn't involve the Eternal Fleet and he had us dead to rights until Valkorion stepped in..

 

That's cause I didn't kill him quickly or I wasn't at full strength

[JediAkemi]

And still no-one in-universe is willing to entertain the idea that we lost because of Valkorian. We were beating Arcann like a rented drum until the cut-scene.

 

Despite the annoying "cut-scene incompetence", I loved the new chapter... after Valkorian left. His constant "you're nothing without me" BS is ridiculous. We killed him. Twice.

 

I'm not convinced that Marr and Satele are right, and (call me paranoid) but are we sure Marr's ghost is Marr and not Valkorian? He knows we're unlikely to listen to him so he pretends to be someone we actually like.

It was nice to see them though

The Odeesan Wilds are gorgeous.

 

Fighting vision-Vaylin should have been awesome... except it glitched on me the first time and she ended up falling through the planet so I had to run away until the encounter reset. Second time, everything behaved.

 

My only complaint with the new Arcann-buster lightsabre is that I couldn't make two of them. I'm a Jedi Sentinel. I should be able to make twin lightsabres.

 

I also loved the cliffhanger at the end. It's got me itching for Chapter XIII so we can go save Havoc Squad... and I suppose save Kaliyo.

 

Senya has joined Koth on my "Let me bash their heads in with their own self-righteousness" list. Not sure if it was a glitch but she was acting as if I'd let Kaliyo blow up the Spire in chapter X even though I chose Light Side.

 

So, yeah, I may not agree with the idea that people want me to be the new Eternal Empress, but overall I enjoyed this chapter. The Zakuul natives in the Alliance continue to get more and more irritating, and the cross-faction *************, though funny, makes me fear for our future.

All things considered, I'd say it was a good addition to the story.

[SusanCampbell]

I was really upset with how lazy the writing was in this chapter, tbh. Fine, you want us to 'become greater', got it. What does that mean? Getting yelled at my Valk because the writers have been vague is annoying. Plus, my Jedi, who have known Master Satele for years weren't even happy to see her? Couldn't ask her what the heck happened to their former Jedi masters/companions? Also another fight with a big bad that goes nowhere? If we can't actually fight Vaylin yet and I can see why we can't, then don't make us do another damn dream fight. I am sick of having confrontations that solve nothing and don't advance the story at all, just for the sake of having a big fight.

 

I liked running into Master Satele and Darth Marr again, but I hated most of the dialogue choices. My IA has been a double agent since the end of Chapter 3, yet she is supposed to be shouting her loyalty to the Empire? Uh.... NO!! The Empire brainwashed her and tortured her. She has no loyalty to those people. Where was my choice to say "I want a galaxy with no more stupid wars and torture and misery?" as her answer to that final question. Not to mention my Jedi, who should have had a "Protect the people of the galaxy" rather than just a Republic loyalty oath. If they're supposed to eventually rule the galaxy (Which all my toons are adamantly against, btw) There should be something in there about helping everyone, not just their own faction.

 

Also , Satele has nothing to say to the Jedi about her relationship to Theron? Not even a "say hi to him for me?" Just a "didn't spare you for him". Seriously? No, "hey, yeah, shouldn't be dating someone, Jedi" or "Yeah, my mom turned out to be right about relationships, so you two have fun" SOMETHING.

 

There were so many missed opportunities and honestly, having Valk just pack up and leave your head was a MAJOR cop-out. My SI spent most of chapter three trying to get rid of a force possession and Valk just waltzes off? I was expecting something big in regards to getting rid of him. At least I was able to say "Goodbye to bad rubbish!" as he left, but still! And don't get me started on his dialogue. "Not your enemy?" I call malarkey! You want me to rule the galaxy? Do I get a say in that? Because I do not want to rule the galaxy! I am quite happy running around having fun with my friends. All in all, very annoyed with everything, including getting a new weapon that was significantly LESS powerful than the one I already had!!!

[PowerJediRanger]

Must admit, one thing I hated about Jedi Shan and Marr and Emperor was they were acting I have no choice in choosing my destiny and say I'm destined to take the throne. This was on my Smuggler and He's not onboard with the idea of taking the throne. Sure some of my other toons might like the idea but not my Smuggler. He prefers to be free and do what he wanted and choose his own destiny.

[GhostDrone]

Yeah, all this talk of predetermined destiny doesn't seem to fit our characters' journeys up until this point. Especially because most of the vanilla class stories have the class involved face unbelievable odds to climb to the top. Going AGAINST any destinies and forging their own path.

 

I'm having trouble understanding Arcann's immunity to the powers of light and dark. I understand the reasoning as follows; he was raised with a different philosophy of the force in mind. One that purges him of the weaknesses both light and dark bring upon a force sensitive.

 

...But that just means he wasn't able to master either of those sides of the force. Our Jedi, our Sith, they were. It's just that the story hasn't allowed them to display their mastery of either side. And that's probably because the story needs to fit everyone. Including non-force users. So all power levels are brought down to the exact same level.

 

And is that why this beyond "light and dark" stuff is happening? So that we can all pretend to ascend to a new level of power? Even though probably nothing will change...

 

Might be too early to judge, might be that i'm just misunderstanding everything. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

Edited April 6, 2016 by GhostDrone

[adormitul]

I think its more about the fact that the Zaakul people understand that the force is not light or dark but its that it rewards the ones who worship her with more power then if you think of it as a friend or a slave. Basically you gain stronger connection to the force this way.

Again it depends of your natural talent and initial force connection but that is the gist.

[Codedrago]

Yeah, all this talk of predetermined destiny doesn't seem to fit our characters' journeys up until this point. Especially because most of the vanilla class stories have the class involved face unbelievable odds to climb to the top. Going AGAINST any destinies and forging their own path.

 

 

That could be argued for them going with destiny, but wither way I'm against the concept of destiny. I think all these sudden conveniences are a ploy from Valkorion to manipulate us, using destiny as an excuse (Then again, he doesn't even know how to use the word right).

 

I'm having trouble understanding Arcann's immunity to the powers of light and dark. I understand the reasoning as follows; he was raised with a different philosophy of the force in mind. One that purges him of the weaknesses both light and dark bring upon a force sensitive.

 

I don't remember it ever being implied that he is immune, it's just that he was raised to use the force a little differently (Though still very simmilar) and inherited a lot of power from his abomination of a father. Marr and Satele are simply in the thought process that to fight Arcann, we should try a different approach. It doesn't purge him of all weaknesses, he's still as arrogant as most force users, as easily angered as a sith and I'm sure those metal replacent limbs hold him back a little.

 

 

...But that just means he wasn't able to master either of those sides of the force. Our Jedi, our Sith, they were. It's just that the story hasn't allowed them to display their mastery of either side. And that's probably because the story needs to fit everyone. Including non-force users. So all power levels are brought down to the exact same level.

Our power levels weren't brought down, Arcann is just more experienced and powerful then us. He is the son of Vitiate after all.

 

And is that why this beyond "light and dark" stuff is happening? So that we can all pretend to ascend to a new level of power? Even though probably nothing will change...

 

We ascend to a new level of power by welcoming other means of obtaining power, while we can still stick to the dark or light, we can still take advantage of abusing power by other means.

 

Might be too early to judge, might be that i'm just misunderstanding everything. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

 

I could be misunderstanding everything too. I think it's Satele and Marr's fault for playing the 'too cool to speak clearly' game.

[killershrike]

Uh, our 1 on 1 duels with Arcann didn't involve the Eternal Fleet and he had us dead to rights until Valkorion stepped in..

 

No, I was kicking his *** and he was saved by a cutscene...

But Bioware loves to do that (e.g. Saren in ME1 and Kai Leng in ME3)...

[Audoucet]

Those "above" Jedi and Sith is pure garbage, I don't believe it at all. Arcann was able to win because of the Eternal Fleet, not his Force Power, he was nothing compare to the great Sith Lords.

 

Also I don't get to kill Satele for real, nor do I have the chance to flirt more other than one line.

 

It sucks SO MUCH, I want to weep. Bioware should be forbidden to ever touch Star Wars again.

 

I WANT TO PLAY A FRIKKING SITH, not Revan 2 !!!