Premades keeping PVP fun

[Icykill_]

And this happens every match? Or happened just once?

 

I ask because I have PUGged about half my time in SWTOR and have never ONCE been spawn camped in 4+ (or however many years). This is, frankly, a level of bad I have never experienced in this game.

 

I also see it a bit... But not as the other person said... It's hardly ever a 4 man guild premade doing it...

 

The real question is why are they being camped?

It's because they are so bad they haven't realised there is another exit, so they keep running out the same one into a group of sharks in a feeding frenzy,, lol... You don't need to be in a premade to have this happen.

[Lhancelot]

I think this is a big part of the problem. They already have an advantage of being experienced and grouped, with the possibility of having voice comms, and STILL run with a cheesey composition; sorcs heals, skank tank, sorc/pt dps or similar. When was the last time you saw a premade running merc heals with no tank? (Not a great idea, but you get the point)

 

It irritates me further when those same premades just farm the other team. I've been on teams (particularly VoidStar) where a group on the SAME TEAM has openly said "Don't cap, just farm them" - then been abused for going straight for the cap. I've also been on the other side where the team is just farming us with no desire to go for the objective and just want it to be over.

 

People run "cheesy" comps because if they run into a strong premade they want to be competitive.

 

Also, I seen the farming mentality when a team says "let's farm them don't score!", but honestly I have not seen that on TEH in a long, long time.

 

Last time I seen it commonly was on Harbinger and before that Bastion.

 

TEH might have some individuals that want to do that, but I can't say I seen a group or team that all partakes and does that.

[Lhancelot]

I also see it a bit... But not as the other person said... It's hardly ever a 4 man guild premade doing it...

 

The real question is why are they being camped?

It's because they are so bad they haven't realised there is another exit, so they keep running out the same one into a group of sharks in a feeding frenzy,, lol... You don't need to be in a premade to have this happen.

 

Yeah, when I read that someone got "spawn camped", I have to ask... How?

 

In every wz, there are more than one exit or way into the map.

 

The first signs of a bad team are when your team stops at the top of a warzone in spawn camp and starts dpsing, or when they all run to one node and stand there like the bad cowards they are when the match has only been playing for a couple minutes.

 

I know then it's over before it even began.

 

Only way to avoid players like this is to get in a premade.

 

Truth.

[Icykill_]

I think this is a big part of the problem. They already have an advantage of being experienced and grouped, with the possibility of having voice comms, and STILL run with a cheesey composition; sorcs heals, skank tank, sorc/pt dps or similar. When was the last time you saw a premade running merc heals with no tank? (Not a great idea, but you get the point)

 

It irritates me further when those same premades just farm the other team. I've been on teams (particularly VoidStar) where a group on the SAME TEAM has openly said "Don't cap, just farm them" - then been abused for going straight for the cap. I've also been on the other side where the team is just farming us with no desire to go for the objective and just want it to be over.

 

I play premades most of the time now, either randoms, mixed or guild.. I never use voice comms and most of my guild doesn't either or if they do its not to coordinate, it's to just talk sh*te to each other. Most people have this idea that everyone in premades use voice comms to give them an advantage. Even if they're on voice comms, especially in regs, they aren't usually using them for team coordination, but to just be social.

 

Anyway, as for the farming thing in void star... You don't need to be in a premade to do that... if anything it's individual solo players that say it more... Most of the time we just want it to be over so we can start another match and hopefully play against better people

Edited March 30, 2016 by Icykill_

[teclado]

I agree with Icy.

 

The mindset that grouping with other players in an MMO is a dirty thing is exactly the mindset that has driven this game into single player RPG super easy KotFE mode. If you don't feel like grouping up, you agree to roll the dice regarding your teammates. Until BW decides to make separate solo and group unranked queues (doubt it will ever happen), you can either keep playing solo and be miserable most of the time, or queue in a group and actually fight back against that other dastardly, despicable, evil premade.

 

Grouping doesn't bother me nearly as much as healer / tank disparity. I don't blame the players for just playing a class and role that they enjoy, but it makes no sense to distribute solo queue healers all to one team in imp vs imp games. BW could make that change right now. Of course, if you have four healers in a group, there's probably going to be a disparity. Then again, implementing something that limits one healer per group would really help. Force people to dps or tank unless they really enjoy healing (and are good enough that people would want to group with them). Otherwise, load the solo queue side with healers (we all know that they need them more). Granted, this would not be an issue at all if Sorc heals were not so strong and easy to play.

Edited March 30, 2016 by teclado

[Volthammer]

People run "cheesy" comps because if they run into a strong premade they want to be competitive.

 

Also, I seen the farming mentality when a team says "let's farm them don't score!", but honestly I have not seen that on TEH in a long, long time.

 

Last time I seen it commonly was on Harbinger and before that Bastion.

 

TEH might have some individuals that want to do that, but I can't say I seen a group or team that all partakes and does that.

 

I play Harbinger late nights (due to my work schedule) and it's verrrrry rare to have someone tell the team not to cap so they can farm. At that time of night, at least. I ignore those punks anyway. lol My guild and I are not there to farm. We're there to win the WZ by doing objectives. But that's just us.

[Icykill_]

Yeah, when I read that someone got "spawn camped", I have to ask... How?

 

In every wz, there are more than one exit or way into the map.

 

The first signs of a bad team are when your team stops at the top of a warzone in spawn camp and starts dpsing, or when they all run to one node and stand there like the bad cowards they are when the match has only been playing for a couple minutes.

 

I know then it's over before it even began.

 

Only way to avoid players like this is to get in a premade.

 

Truth.

 

Exactly !

 

Most of the time I'm saying to them, even when I'm on the opposing team... "You know there's another exit?"... But no, they are all sheep or lemmings and continue to jump to their deaths like noobs... So as far as I'm concerned they deserve to get farmed if they are such bad players

 

Or when the team all gives up and goes and stands at the only node they have... That is the worst of the worst... It just proves how they don't want to be there to start with and how bad they are... If anything these are the players who need to keep trying so they can practice and get better... When they do this I often head there solo or even with another person to force them to fight.. It's possible I might die 8v1... But I don't care.. I figure if they can't kill me 8v1 then they need the practice and if I can't stay alive 8v1 against a bunch of pus*ies, then I need to practice too, lol

 

At some point when we were all learning we weren't good enough to keep up with the best players... But we would grind against these guys hard, never giving up. You can learn a lot from playing better players if you watch what they do and practice against them... That's how I learnt and got better... Even now I prefer to play against better or equal skill of players... Also remember back then PVP was harder... We had a lot more better players, lots of "actual" trinity premades, not random ones I'm suggesting... Bigger gear gaps or bolster that didn't work or we didn't have at all...

 

I welcome new PVP players who "want" to be there to PVP and learn. I will go out of my way to help them with gearing, tactics, and asking them to group... I take them places to dual so they can practice 1v1 and I give them pointers...

But the reality is these people are few and far between to find... Maybe 1-5% of new PVP people want to be there.. The rest don't, that is why the quality is terrible and is why having random premades or other premades is the only way to get people who want to PVP on your team instead of people who couldn't careless.

 

What I find really amazing are the guilds "who" used to have a good reputation for being good in PVP are now absolutely rubbish... You can blame their leadership for this because they "don't" help their guildies. They don't tell them how to gear, they don't group with them to show them tactics or so they can practice. Most have turned into conquest guilds and story guilds.

I'm not even sure they realise that you can dual on your guild ships now or where the bolster terminal is on the fleet.

 

In Between matches my guildies stay on the guild ship and we dual constantly. We show each other the strengths and weaknesses of each class, different tactics and when to use CDs or identify when others are using them. I'm lucky that I'm in a PVP only guild and we have some awesome players. I know I've learnt a lot from them in the 4-5 months I've been playing with them. I used to think I was good, but got a shock at how good these guys were. Since joining this guild my skill has increased significantly to the point I can beat a lot of them in 1v1 duals or its so close it might as well be a tie.

They also know or are friends with some of the best players on Harbinger and I often get to play with or against these other good players. If other guilds did this for their members they would increase in skill too.

 

I would be interested to know from people on this forum, how many of you do this for your guildies?

[Icykill_]

I see this all the time dude! How do you not run into this on Harbringer? I went through a phase grinding out for full 2018 gear on two characters and about 40% or so of my games were EXACTLY this. And its the usual suspects all the time, Blood Bath and Beyond, IMP HAND, Super Smash Bros, same guild runnin' the same ol' premades just trollin' unranked WZ matches.

 

You know 2 out of those 3 guilds aren't very good anymore... Sure they may still have a few good players... But most of the time if I'm running solo and I see them on my team it's a loss... Becuase they are rubbish players... I would even go as far as calling some of them bad... The reasons for that are in my last post... Have a read if you want to know why the quality of their players have dropped.

They also aren't trolling regs... Most either don't like arena, like myself, so they don't play ranked or also like me they have 300+ms lag and ranked against 30ms people is unviable...

Just because they are better players than you and are in a premade, doesn't mean they are trolling. Sure occasionally you get the odd troll group, but that's pretty rare... Maybe you can't tell the difference because you do t know the players to realise or arent good enough to recognise it's a troll. A troll group usually isn't a balanced group, usually they are all the same class, run in a tight pack, don't even attempt to play objectives or help their team win. Winning isn't their objective. But don't get that confused with a group that also runs together, most of them actually want to win and also play the objectives. A lot of the time the troll groups lose if their opponents just use their brains.

[Kaedusz]

Personally i find it a lot more enjoyable to fight against people i know or guildies, while they are in the other team, than to play alongside them.

 

The most fun games are when our guild premade fights against another premade from our guild.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Kaedusz

[kweassa]

Just because they are better players than you and are in a premade, doesn't mean they are trolling. Sure occasionally you get the odd troll group, but that's pretty rare... Maybe you can't tell the difference because you do t know the players to realise or arent good enough to recognise it's a troll. A troll group usually isn't a balanced group, usually they are all the same class, run in a tight pack, don't even attempt to play objectives or help their team win. Winning isn't their objective. But don't get that confused with a group that also runs together, most of them actually want to win and also play the objectives. A lot of the time the troll groups lose if their opponents just use their brains.

 

The "intent" means nothing in face of "results." That's what you should be considering before you keep on defending irresponsible behaviors and outcomes the premades cause upon the PvP world.

 

Do I really think all premade players are as bad and evil as I tend to portray or demonize them? No.

 

Do I really think all premades are seriously huritng PvP? YES. Because like I said, I've "been there, done that" and seen firsthand what it does to the game and its community, and even my last MMOG I played before I returned to SWTOR this January, suffered the exact same fate. A total community meltdown and PvP-death. Thanks to premades.

 

...and yes, they used the same frickin' excuses -- they just like competitive fights, they just like to be with friends, being able to team up your guilidies is not a wrong thing, and blah blah blah.

 

Well, guess what. Whatever their intent, the result -- THEY KILLED PVP. That's what premades do. Don't lie about it, don't deny it. They're not evil people, no. They team up for fun, yes. But they create imbalance, and the one-sided nature of such imbalance drives people away.

 

The reality is, casual players are predominantly solo. Many of their friends don't really enjoy PvP. They'd rather not bother their friends or guildies into a content they do not enjoy, nor do they think PvP is that serious business to form a guild or keep on making a premade over. When they queue, they expect to have a little bit of fun time or off-time away from OPs or FPs. Mabe a distraction. A few credits, win some dailies/weeklies, get some PvP gear for the collection.

 

Like it or not, these casual PvPers are solo, and they are the BACKBONE of what supports a PvP community. They don't ever show up in forums like this, nor are they even vocal from the beginning. They are the silent majority of the PvP community unlike buffoons like myself who cry out warnings in a high-pitched tone. And when they are beaten up, slaughtered, stomped, ridiculed, humiliated every day in this manner, they just leave. No fancy good-byes like some people do in the forums. They just go away, and never come back.

 

And when they go extinct, PvP dies. All you have left behind is the bunch of premaderps, all by themselves, meeting same premade players everyday, wondering and griping about "huh.. why don't people play PvP these days". That's what happens to premades after they kill PvP.

 

Premade players never intended such things? They don't want that happening?

Well that's too bad. Their intentions or not, it's what they do.

 

 

(ps) and no. I will never be a part of any premade ever again. I stopped doing that shi* 10 years ago when I realized what premades were doing to the game I played back then. I'm certainly not doing it to some Imperial solo player I might meet, because frankly, its total and unexcusable griefing.

Edited March 30, 2016 by kweassa

[yellow_]

All you have left behind is the bunch of premaderps, all by themselves, meeting same premade players everyday, wondering and griping about "huh.. why don't people play PvP these days". That's what happens to premades after they kill PvP.

 

only playing other premades? that sounds awesome -- where do I sign up?

[Icykill_]

only playing other premades? that sounds awesome -- where do I sign up?

 

It's called ranked teams... But only if you want to play arena.

 

Blame bio for removing 8 man ranked and never trying other fixes for it... ie solo queue 8 man ranked... having the ability to queue in a 4 man groups for ranked 8s like you can in reg 8s

[yellow_]

It's called ranked teams... But only if you want to play arena.

 

Blame bio for removing 8 man ranked and never trying other fixes for it... ie solo queue 8 man ranked... having the ability to queue in a 4 man groups for ranked 8s like you can in reg 8s

 

I just wanted to make a point to that guy and his endless ranting about premades. I would happily lose every reg I enter with my guildies if the TDM in those games was competitive. I'd love to play nothing but premades when I'm not playing 4s (and I do actively play them) because steamrolls are boring.

[Icykill_]

The "intent" means nothing in face of "results." That's what you should be considering before you keep on defending irresponsible behaviors and outcomes the premades cause upon the PvP world.

 

Do I really think all premade players are as bad and evil as I tend to portray or demonize them? No.

 

Do I really think all premades are seriously huritng PvP? YES. Because like I said, I've "been there, done that" and seen firsthand what it does to the game and its community, and even my last MMOG I played before I returned to SWTOR this January, suffered the exact same fate. A total community meltdown and PvP-death. Thanks to premades.

 

...and yes, they used the same frickin' excuses -- they just like competitive fights, they just like to be with friends, being able to team up your guilidies is not a wrong thing, and blah blah blah.

 

Well, guess what. Whatever their intent, the result -- THEY KILLED PVP. That's what premades do. Don't lie about it, don't deny it. They're not evil people, no. They team up for fun, yes. But they create imbalance, and the one-sided nature of such imbalance drives people away.

 

The reality is, casual players are predominantly solo. Many of their friends don't really enjoy PvP. They'd rather not bother their friends or guildies into a content they do not enjoy, nor do they think PvP is that serious business to form a guild or keep on making a premade over. When they queue, they expect to have a little bit of fun time or off-time away from OPs or FPs. Mabe a distraction. A few credits, win some dailies/weeklies, get some PvP gear for the collection.

 

Like it or not, these casual PvPers are solo, and they are the BACKBONE of what supports a PvP community. They don't ever show up in forums like this, nor are they even vocal from the beginning. They are the silent majority of the PvP community unlike buffoons like myself who cry out warnings in a high-pitched tone. And when they are beaten up, slaughtered, stomped, ridiculed, humiliated every day in this manner, they just leave. No fancy good-byes like some people do in the forums. They just go away, and never come back.

 

And when they go extinct, PvP dies. All you have left behind is the bunch of premaderps, all by themselves, meeting same premade players everyday, wondering and griping about "huh.. why don't people play PvP these days". That's what happens to premades after they kill PvP.

 

Premade players never intended such things? They don't want that happening?

Well that's too bad. Their intentions or not, it's what they do.

 

 

(ps) and no. I will never be a part of any premade ever again. I stopped doing that shi* 10 years ago when I realized what premades were doing to the game I played back then. I'm certainly not doing it to some Imperial solo player I might meet, because frankly, its total and unexcusable griefing.

 

I don't totally disagree with what you're saying "if" we are talking about the past. Yes, trinity premades in the past were detrimental to pug PVP.

But the paradine has changed since then.

I'm not defending the trinity premade effect on pugs by exceptional players. It is extremely daunting coming up against them if your not grouped or if your just starting out.

My point is that the people pvping are so bad because of all the reasons I originally listed, that if you want to play with pvpers of any skill lvl and not people who don't really want to be there, then the answer is to group.

I think the issue/misunderstanding here is the terminology and past perceptions of premades.

I say premades in the loosest of terms. Maybe I haven't defined it enough. I say premade and I'm using that term to encompass any form of group up for PVP.

The most basic is you see another PVPer in a match, they don't have to be the best, but you can see they actually want to be there to PVP. So you ask them to group so you can have another person on your team next match who can play PVP at some sort of lvl. Then you see another and another after a few matches you have a full 4 man group of varying skill lvl. You aren't on voice chat, you may not know each other, but by definition your group was premade before the next match.

I'm encouraging any solo players to do this so that you have a better chance of having pvpers on your team and not window lickers, who frankly are usually happy to afk at a node.

By forming this sort of group all you are really doing is bringing your pug team up to the lvl we used to have before we were flooded with all the Bads.

Now if you go up against a team of those "Bads", well too bad for them. They shouldn't queue if they aren't going to try and put the same effort in as the rest of us who want to PVP.

If you want to blame anyone for ruining PVP, blame those people who queue only because Bio makes them or are wanting to farm conquest.

Because you are forming these defacto groups to get pvpers on your teams, you will get to know these people as either friends or associates. You may even end up in the same guild becuase you know each other.

So when you're on you will probably seek these people out so you can play with pvpers and not PVE noobs.

What you seem reluctant to let go of is your hate for the old guild "trinity" premades. I'm not saying they aren't still out there, they are. But there arent as many as you think. Just because you see a 3-4 man group from the same guild doesn't mean they are any good or running a trinity premade on voice chat.

Most of the guild premades I see these days are actually from PVE guilds. I think this is good. Those people probably do want to learn to PVP and by forming a premade it will be easier for them to learn instead of going into solo pug matches with people who don't want to.

Group or premade PVP is really the only way to guarentee you have pvpers in the match. Bio probably should promote it and add a reg queue for it and then all the noobs can queue solo. But Bio won't do this, we know from past experience that they won't. So it's up to us players to find away to keep PVP fun for the pvpers and let the people who don't want to be there play by themselves.

The more of us who do this, the more groups/premades of pvpers go up against each other. We'll affectively create our own defacto premade vs premade regs. Sure it won't be perfect, sure you'll occasionally get put against a team of PVE pugs. But so what, they don't care or want to be there. And if you aren't on a team with a preformed group, but on a noob team, well that's life. That's your choice if you don't want to play in a premade.

We can only use the tools we're given by the Devs to make PVP fun again. If we get crap tools then sometimes we'll make a master piece and other times a big turd sculpture.

So if people want to have fun again, form premade groups, the more there are the better PVP will get.

[Icykill_]

I just wanted to make a point to that guy and his endless ranting about premades. I would happily lose every reg I enter with my guildies if the TDM in those games was competitive. I'd love to play nothing but premades when I'm not playing 4s (and I do actively play them) because steamrolls are boring.

 

Exactly 😍

[Mikeieveli]

The "intent" means nothing in face of "results." That's what you should be considering before you keep on defending irresponsible behaviors and outcomes the premades cause upon the PvP world.

 

Do I really think all premade players are as bad and evil as I tend to portray or demonize them? No.

 

Do I really think all premades are seriously huritng PvP? YES. Because like I said, I've "been there, done that" and seen firsthand what it does to the game and its community, and even my last MMOG I played before I returned to SWTOR this January, suffered the exact same fate. A total community meltdown and PvP-death. Thanks to premades.

 

...and yes, they used the same frickin' excuses -- they just like competitive fights, they just like to be with friends, being able to team up your guilidies is not a wrong thing, and blah blah blah.

 

Well, guess what. Whatever their intent, the result -- THEY KILLED PVP. That's what premades do. Don't lie about it, don't deny it. They're not evil people, no. They team up for fun, yes. But they create imbalance, and the one-sided nature of such imbalance drives people away.

 

The reality is, casual players are predominantly solo. Many of their friends don't really enjoy PvP. They'd rather not bother their friends or guildies into a content they do not enjoy, nor do they think PvP is that serious business to form a guild or keep on making a premade over. When they queue, they expect to have a little bit of fun time or off-time away from OPs or FPs. Mabe a distraction. A few credits, win some dailies/weeklies, get some PvP gear for the collection.

 

Like it or not, these casual PvPers are solo, and they are the BACKBONE of what supports a PvP community. They don't ever show up in forums like this, nor are they even vocal from the beginning. They are the silent majority of the PvP community unlike buffoons like myself who cry out warnings in a high-pitched tone. And when they are beaten up, slaughtered, stomped, ridiculed, humiliated every day in this manner, they just leave. No fancy good-byes like some people do in the forums. They just go away, and never come back.

 

And when they go extinct, PvP dies. All you have left behind is the bunch of premaderps, all by themselves, meeting same premade players everyday, wondering and griping about "huh.. why don't people play PvP these days". That's what happens to premades after they kill PvP.

 

Premade players never intended such things? They don't want that happening?

Well that's too bad. Their intentions or not, it's what they do.

 

 

(ps) and no. I will never be a part of any premade ever again. I stopped doing that shi* 10 years ago when I realized what premades were doing to the game I played back then. I'm certainly not doing it to some Imperial solo player I might meet, because frankly, its total and unexcusable griefing.

 

Don't kid yourself, its solo players that purchase a MMO, please tell me you know the definition by now, and want a 1 player game. If you want to play a 1 player game, go buy a 1 player game. Then play it. Not many MMOs out there that I hear such endless, tireless, boring rambling about premades from people who just dont understand, want to understand, or care to understand what a MMO is about.

 

I dont PvE, why? Not because I dont like it, but because I dont want to put in the time. If you want to log on for 1 hour a week and dont care to join a guild and que with people, I have no sympathy for you. NOT ONE BIT. If you complain about premades, I have no sympathy either. Yeah you have your exceptions to the rule but face facts, premades are here and here to stay.

 

You "premades destroy PVP" people complained endlessly on how you wanted arena. For so so so long. Premades did play other premades in ranked 8v8. Then you destroyed Premade vs Premade by forcing BW to release TDM arena. Then after they release it, you dont do it. You play objective base to TDM. Then when someone who is better than you stomps you because they want to play objective based PvP with competent people you complain about that. Because you cant ROFLstomp some rookie who doesnt know what they are doing.

 

YOU KILLED PVP. not premades. YOU. Dont blame BW. Dont blame people that play mmos as intended. Blame people who are never satisfied and endlessly self destruct a game they supposedly like. Look in the mirror and blame yourself.

 

Or get in a group and play with other people. But wait, why do that? Ohh yeah dont do that because this is an MMO.

 

Do you go to Europe and drive on the right side of the road and ask their respective government to change their folkways and mores to accommodate you? Did they ruin driving for you?

[Alssaran]

Don't kid yourself, its solo players that purchase a MMO, please tell me you know the definition by now, and want a 1 player game. If you want to play a 1 player game, go buy a 1 player game. Then play it. Not many MMOs out there that I hear such endless, tireless, boring rambling about premades from people who just dont understand, want to understand, or care to understand what a MMO is about.

 

This is literally wrong. It simply is an oversimplification of consumer behaviour based on what you want it to be, but not how it actually is. The fact in todays market is that people buy the games they think look fun. Most people don't religiously stick to a single type of game, and don't let themselves be discouraged by MMO/FPS/RPG/Strategy/Simulation. There is a very small minority of people who stick to one kind of game.

 

That is the very reason you cannot make a point for: "Only people who love MASSIVE groups and ALWAYS group up for activities should play MMORPGs."

 

You know how prevalent that mindset is in SWTOR? It is so over-represented in the current community that Bioware, much to the dissatisfaction of their current raiding/pvp community, has choosen to bring this game more in line with a single player story focus. That's how frequent this: "If you are a solo player, you shouldn't purchase MMO's!" mindset is these days.

 

The fact is that nowhere in the definition of the word MMORPG you may find a specific mention of "forced group content", or even the necessity to team up with others to have fun. The fact that you play in the same world as other people does not dictate the fact that you have to frequently involve those other people for the MMORPG to match the definition of the word.

 

I dont PvE, why? Not because I dont like it, but because I dont want to put in the time. If you want to log on for 1 hour a week and dont care to join a guild and que with people, I have no sympathy for you. NOT ONE BIT. If you complain about premades, I have no sympathy either. Yeah you have your exceptions to the rule but face facts, premades are here and here to stay.

 

It seems that the casual and solo-minded that Bioware has decided to solely cater to those casual players and solo players. You are mixing up facts here, literally. I'm not sure why you're doing it. Maybe it's denial. Maybe it's frustration, but Bioware's outlying plan for SWTOR speaks an entirely different language: The return of investment for a single player story experience with casual gameplay aspects seems to be higher than any group oriented content right now.

 

You "premades destroy PVP" people complained endlessly on how you wanted arena. For so so so long. Premades did play other premades in ranked 8v8. Then you destroyed Premade vs Premade by forcing BW to release TDM arena.

 

Nobody forced Bioware to release arena to destroy premades. That is the most ridiculous bullsh*t I have ever read. "Hey! Let's all ask Bioware to release arena! That might destroy/hinder the premade queue times considerably! And while we are at it, let's ask them to release conquest to harm guilds!".

 

People asked for an inclusion of the arena feature running next to the warzone model because the mode can be fun. Not everyone likes to play objectively with 7-4 total strangers every single day. There are times at which I want to pit my individual skill against other competitors on my level without minding objectives. When I want to put my tactical knowledge to use, I think warzones are a great idea. But when I want to solely PvP, and pit my individual skill with my class against others of my level of expertise, I think arenas are the better way to go.

 

Nobody who wanted arenas ever asked Bioware to remove 8vs8. The desire for arenas was co-existing with warzones, and to provide a method for eight premades to fight warzones, while two-four premades could queue for arenas and get a 2vs2/3vs3/4vs4 rating assigned.

 

In no way did anyone ever ask for the exclusion of 8vs8 ranked, and even forced Bioware to release arenas to destroy premades. It's a blatant lie, and you're twisting the facts to suit your own narrative here.

 

Then after they release it, you dont do it. You play objective base to TDM. Then when someone who is better than you stomps you because they want to play objective based PvP with competent people you complain about that. Because you cant ROFLstomp some rookie who doesnt know what they are doing.

 

Then premade players who like to run eight men warzones might want to take it out on Bioware for not including them.

 

And, no, you shouldn't ROFLstomp a rookie who doesn't know what they are doing. Not as a premade competitive season 1 veteran, queueing up with seven of your friends for the precise intend to do it. That's what he is pointing out, and that's correct.

 

It's strange how nobody ever really wants to answer this question in any detail: In what way would only fighting against other premades hinder your competitive environment compared to fighting PUGs as a premade? If you are optimizing your build for trinity/arena, wouldn't it be the most competitive thing to match you against other people who are precisely doing just that?

 

Is fighting other optimized people only, even in a specially designed queue that allows to tick "Only match with premade enemies", in any way taking away from your competitive attitude? From your fun? Fighting unorganized PUGs as a premade defeats competitive claims. It is a hypocrisy to defend this as one of those so called "competitive players who want the challenge!" If you were a competitor, and you were trying to find the most competitive and challening aspects of PvP, then you would cheer for the idea of such a box to be ticked. It provides you with the possibility of always getting the competitive edge you want.

 

Most people do not want to kill premading outright. Nobody wants to put a "You can't queue for PvP while in a group!" on the screen. What people are asking for, and what is essentially a sensible request, is for solo players to have an option to avoid premades. Not kill them outright. Not deny them. Avoid!

 

That is not killing premades, and it's not taking away a "competitive element" of the game. If you are so against the idea of giving PUGs a way to avoid those "skilled premades", I take it your sole enjoyment when queueing up as a premade is to stomp PUGs endlessly. Otherwise you wouldn't pretty much care for a system that prioritizes premades together, filling blanks in an attempt to create the most evenly weighed teams possible. THAT is true competitive spirit, and forcing this idea into a negative aspect is denying the issue: You cannot expect to force solo players into premading for every single warzone they do, even in your sacred "MMO for group players only" world.

 

YOU KILLED PVP. not premades. YOU. Dont blame BW. Dont blame people that play mmos as intended. Blame people who are never satisfied and endlessly self destruct a game they supposedly like. Look in the mirror and blame yourself.

 

You have literally no ground to base this on. How are we defining playing an MMO as intended? Who's definition are we going to use? Yours? Mine? His? That random guy on TRE?

 

Every guy and girl out there plays MMORPG's differently, and every way is as correct as the next. The fact that you think you can make your own interpretation into the way MMOs are meant to be played is a gross overstatement of your importance in this game. We literally don't know you. We literally don't care about how you play your MMORPGs. I'll throw this right back at you: Someone who believes there is an intricant and not arbitrary way of how MMORPGs have to be played is creating a bigger issue than someone who is simply soloing the game and minding his own business for 99% of the time. The person playing it as a single player game contributes to the financial success. He is paying the same amount of money you are, maybe even more in CM sales. And the idea that you can tell someone that he is not playing the MMO as intended is ridiculous.

 

The idea that anyone could referrence and judge how MMOs have to be played by anyone is ridiculous and arrogant.

 

Or get in a group and play with other people. But wait, why do that? Ohh yeah dont do that because this is an MMO.

 

Why would you force people with little time and on a very empty server into a group of people they don't know, when the enjoyment of both premades (the competitive spirit) and of the solo player can be preserved by including the ticking box mentioned above?

 

You want to tell me that everyone has to conform to your standard of grouping up in an MMORPG because that is your definition of how it's supposed to be done?

 

Do you go to Europe and drive on the right side of the road and ask their respective government to change their folkways and mores to accommodate you? Did they ruin driving for you?

 

You are comparing apples and oranges here. On which side of the road to drive is a system. It is how most of the countries traffic laws are written, and how the traffic is organized. Something as this games queue system can easily be tweaked by optional filters. Like installing a bicycle-way next to the road.

 

People aren't asking to change from right hand driving to left hand driving completely. People are asking for a chance to say: I feel like taking the bicycle today. Let me do that. I don't feel like fighting premades today. My friends are on holiday/I'm new to the game mode/Nobody in my guild has time right now. Please give me a way to avoid them, if possible.

 

Those are two totally different things, and it's hilarious how you claim the optional inclusion of a way for people to decide would destroy PvP. What are you afraid of? That you have less pugs to stomp?

[DenariusJay]

Yeah, when I read that someone got "spawn camped", I have to ask... How?

.

 

Both hutt ball maps, 1 exit out, very easy to camp and farm. Void star the first room attackers, fall off ledge and get derp'd endlessly by aggressive defense team that sitting right at the bottom of the ledge, foaming at the mouth and ready to attack. Very hard to "sneak" pass unless your an ops class.

[zhezvya]

I have to agree with mostly everything Alssaran said.

 

We should phrase it correctly- do not ban premades, or limit their group size. Give PUGs a chance to avoid pre-mades.

 

Maybe some kind of “Players in Queue” window shall pop up, showing just role icons and those of them in group in one color box/field. If a pug sees that there is a 4-8 m premade on the other side, he will have a chance to skip this wz and queue system automatically puts him in a different queue. Or if he sees that there is a premade on his side and he decides that chances are fair, he stays. Also, there are some great players playing solo mostly, and they don’t give a S*** on who to play against- they will stay.

 

Maybe that solution will make queues longer and partly kill randomness factor- I’m bad in theories. But at the same time it will help to solve “too many healers on a team” problem. Who would stay in a queue with 3 healers on the other side knowing that in 9 out of 10 cases at least two of them would be sorcs? Somebody will have to re-log as dps or tank not to wait forever.

 

It can also be a motive for pugs to group up without voice communication at least with those they know and see on a fleet if they wanna try their odds at higher level of competition against premades.

 

The wolves are sated and the sheep intact

Edited March 30, 2016 by zhezvya

[RndAvailableUser]

Just my two cents...

I originally wrote up a wall-of-text post, containing some o my thoughts on the matter, but eventually decided to scrap it, and put down a suggestion.

 

My background is EVE (2003 era) and WoW (2003-2012ish) - and Star Trek Online, but that is another story. I strictly pvp'd in EVE, and loved it, and I did both pve and pvp in WoW. In the days of vanilla I tried to get to High Warlord, couldn't play long and hard enough (at least not while keeping the experience pleasurable for me and not frustrating) and only made Centurion, and then played pvp on a more casual basis. In EVE, pvp was obviously a group thing.

In WoW, which compares to swtor most closely that all, I have played pvp both in premades and solo. Premades were obviously the only way to gain a high rank. I managed to have an almost constant-spot in each High Warlord's group. I did not have top gear, or the best skill, but I (would like to believe I) had this quality: I didn't act like an idiot in the battlegrounds. And in the end, I've come to realize that's what really matters in a multiplayer game.

As kweassa said (based on his WoW experience), and I can back it up, premades generally drive casual pvp'ers away from queues. That is to be expected. A casual player usually stays so either because he plays for lack of something better, or has other real-life obligations that withhold him from devote more time and effort in the game. Either way, that casual player expects, through his (minimal as it may be) effort, the same thing everyone expects when playing a game, multiplayer or not: a feeling of satisfaction and fun. Not everyone has the same tastes, of course, so when we end up doing something in the game that ends up not being satisfactory, we stop doing it.

(for my part, I stopped playing WoW when we killed Arthas in 25 Heroic - I found nothing else interesting in the game, so pvp rly had nothing to do with it).

On the other hand, this is a multiplayer game, and when I play with others, I find the experience tons more pleasurable, even if we fail at what we are attempting (pvp/pve), even if we get facerolled in pvp multiple times.

 

I have thus this idea to contribute:

Based on the fact that if you quit a wz you get a lockout, how about implementing another lockout period after one queues for wz with a group? The lockout period would apply only to re-queuing as part of a group (i.e. I could requeue solo immediately), and could vary depending on the size of the last group I queued with, i.e. queue with a 4-man get a 30-min group lockout, queue in a 2-man, get a 5-min group lockout.

That way, the same players cannot premade-spam the wzs. If they truly want to score 234125143 victories in one day, well, some of the casual solo pvp'ers get a reprieve from the rape in between fights.

In addition, in the context of daily/weekly pvp quest rewards, the greatest incentive to play multiple fights is usually to complete the quest, after that individual wz rewards, even on victory, matter little. The biggest reason a premade stays together through multiple fights is because they win. So with a lockout, a big premade (4-man or 8-man) will usually disperse after one or two fights (which, given the lockout, would require almost an hour), and in the meantime, soloq'ers would not feel terribly disappointed.

Even if premades attempt to queue in multiple 2-man teams (to attempt to circumvent the lockout), they get no guarantees that they'll end up together. Chance will work for the underdogs (i.e. the puggers) here.

 

I don't think there will ever be a "perfect" solution on this matter, but that's what I got to offer. It would let a determined premade win still, as it should, but it will also limit the premade's dominance (as, again, it should).

 

You can burn me in flames now

[Lhancelot]

Both hutt ball maps, 1 exit out, very easy to camp and farm. Void star the first room attackers, fall off ledge and get derp'd endlessly by aggressive defense team that sitting right at the bottom of the ledge, foaming at the mouth and ready to attack. Very hard to "sneak" pass unless your an ops class.

 

In huttball, you can usually squeeze by all the stupid deathmatching noobs on your team who are busy derping at the goal line, which is why the other team is able to spawn camp them.

 

They could at least run and try to get the ball, etc., but no, they are bads and don't know any better.

 

In Voidstar, you can go left or right... You do not have to drop down into the other team's blob if they have begun to dominate your team that hard. Don't be a lemming standing with the derps up top dpsing down, OR dropping into the blob of enemies on whatever side they are camping.

 

Worst case scenario, if your team is so bad that you honestly can't even get out of the spawn area, you still have an option: Quit the match!

 

People cry and whine about being spawn camped, when in no shape or form are they forced to go through that. If it's so bad for them and there's no alternatives to escape a spawn camp, AND it's insufferable.... QUIT THE MATCH.

 

I have been in matches where our team got dominated, but I never been stuck up in the spawn area totally unable to drop down and find a fight away from the mass of enemies.

 

That or find a way to get to a door or go after a ball carrier, etc. Usually the spawncampers are there because your team is there. If people moved off that spot, the other team would have to follow. You know, play objectively?

 

Anyone who gets spawncamped has their team to blame, and themselves 99% of the time.

[DarthOvertone]

Both hutt ball maps, 1 exit out, very easy to camp and farm. Void star the first room attackers, fall off ledge and get derp'd endlessly by aggressive defense team that sitting right at the bottom of the ledge, foaming at the mouth and ready to attack. Very hard to "sneak" pass unless your an ops class.

 

Nobody camps the spawn in Huttball. That's a guaranteed loss against any opponent with half a clue.

 

There is no excuse for getting spawn camped in Voidstar. If one side is getting steamrolled, then drop to the other side. Problem solved.

 

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be mean here, but everything you have described in your posts so far screams "L2P."

You should not be getting spawn camped anywhere in this game's WZs.

 

Other team intercepting spawn in Civil War? Drop out of the other side. Huttball spawn camp? Just get two teammates to mid and get possession of the ball. Pretty much a guaranteed score. Ancient Hypergates? Drop to the other side. Novarre Coast? Drop out of the other side. Arenas? You only die once per round so you can't even be spawn camped. What am I missing here? And what do premades have to do with it?

Edited March 30, 2016 by DarthOvertone

[Lhancelot]

Nobody camps the spawn in Huttball. That's a guaranteed loss against any opponent with half a clue.

 

There is no excuse for getting spawn camped in Voidstar. If one side is getting steamrolled, then drop to the other side. Problem solved.

 

Honestly, and I'm not trying to be mean here, but everything you have described in your posts so far screams "L2P."

You should not be getting spawn camped anywhere in this game's WZs.

 

Other team intercepting spawn in Civil War? Drop out of the other side. Huttball spawn camp? Just get two teammates to mid and get possession of the ball. Pretty much a guaranteed score. Ancient Hypergates? Drop to the other side. Novarre Coast? Drop out of the other side. Arenas? You only die once per round so you can't even be spawn camped. What am I missing here? And what do premades have to do with it?

 

Thank you. EXACTLY what I think too.

[foxmob]

You should not be getting spawn camped anywhere in this game's WZs.

 

so many lawyers on this board.

 

I think we can take for granted that being "spawn camped" just means the teams are so lopsided that it doesn't matter what you do or where you go.

Edited March 30, 2016 by foxmob

[Lhancelot]

so many lawyers on this board.

 

I think we can take for granted that being "spawn camped" just means the teams are so lopsided that it doesn't matter what you do or where you go.

 

I am pretty sure when someone says they got "spawn camped" it means that they are stuck at their spawn camp. Lopsided matches are never refered to as a "spawn camping".