Predictions for PVP when heals are nerfed

[Lhancelot]

My predictions are:

 

 

 

• Bioware will nerf heals in PVP due to the overwhelming number of threads demanding such action. Not just sorc heals. ALL heals.
   
   
  
• The day of the Big Heal Nerf Patch the forums will have thread on top of thread celebrating the demise and uselessness of healers in the warzones.... "People finally die! YAY!!!"
   
   
  
• A week after the Big Heal Nerf Patch has been implemented, new threads will flood the PVP forums titled, "NERF (add applicable burst class) BURST I DIE TOO FAST YOU *************** DEVS!!!!!"
  

 

 

 

That's my prediction for the future and how the forums will react when the Big Heal Nerf Patch drops.

[sumquy]

you are probably right, and imo, that is unfortunate. i don't believe that "heals too stronk" is the problem. rather they have given sorcs too many escapes and cast on the move abilities. if they just hold still for a moment, you can kill them. i think forcing them to choose between healing or kiting, instead of giving them both would fix the "problem". Edited March 23, 2016 by sumquy

[helpmewin]

I don't really think when they balanced healers they think about PvP and nowday they don't think about it. No ETA on class fixes in PvP/PvE even in may confirmed. All their class balance is around dummy and theorycrafting last 2 years. If u've been on 3.0 PTS u know what they was thinking about all feedbacks about PvP and PvE.

They can't even FIX Nico Ocar bug, Enternal Championship problems in a few months and u start a thread about broken class mechanic? Guys be a realists, w8 new expansion.

Edited March 23, 2016 by helpmewin

[DerSchneider]

My predictions are:

 

 

 

• Bioware will nerf heals in PVP due to the overwhelming number of threads demanding such action. Not just sorc heals. ALL heals.
   
   
  
• The day of the Big Heal Nerf Patch the forums will have thread on top of thread celebrating the demise and uselessness of healers in the warzones.... "People finally die! YAY!!!"
   
   
  
• A week after the Big Heal Nerf Patch has been implemented, new threads will flood the PVP forums titled, "NERF (add applicable burst class) BURST I DIE TOO FAST YOU *************** DEVS!!!!!"
  

 

 

 

That's my prediction for the future and how the forums will react when the Big Heal Nerf Patch drops.

 

Unfortunately, I think after heals nerf people will start to cry about arsenal merc's burst.

Even now I can successfully push sorc healer and even kill mediocre ones just by myself. Things are getting worse when there are many of them crosshealing each other, or tanks are guarding them.

[Banderal]

..when the Big Heal Nerf Patch drops.

 

(In a singing voice much better than mine...) "In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive..."

 

Actually, yeah, I think your list is exactly right.

[Juithtin]

Accurate.

 

Alternatively, I could see them boosting damage further to counter sorc healers, while leaving merc and op healers where they are..

[JediKier]

From what I remember, this is exactly what happened to heals/tanks in update 2.0, and that is basically exactly what happened.

[AmarantKando]

I feel the need to chime in here aswell, because this problem is getting ridiculous. In the last few days I have had numerous matches with 4 or more healers. (Yesterday also a match with 6 sorcs, fml.) There are just too many healers, on both rep and imp side (on TRE at least.) I'm totally fine with a double premade with 2 tanks, 2 heals and 4 dps. But once a team has 4 healers then they're close to immortal. Just had a Queshball vs a team with 2 tanks and 4 healers. At the last point the tank grabs the ball and just stays at the lowest level, popping some defensives while getting healed by his healers. Needless to say, nothing happened for a good 4 minutes. Personally I don't like wasting my time like that. Without a suggestion it'd be pointless to make a post about it, so:

Put restrictions on the healing role. Not more then 3 healers in one team allowed in 8v8s. Not more then 2 healers in 4v4s. I think it's important to say that the individual healing isn't too high (except Sorcs, pls nerf), but rather the amount of healers in 1 match.

If there won't be any change to this problem in the near future I can't be arsed to pvp in this game anymore. If I want to fight something that doesn't die I'd fight a training dummy.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AmarantKando

[AlrikFassbauer]

(In a singing voice much better than mine...) "In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive..."

 

Wow, someone still remembers that song !

 

@Lhancelot : Agreed. I bet your prediction is right.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[foxmob]

I genuinely wonder if they'll ever 'nerf" sorc healing...given the crazy buffs they gave them in 4.0 (yes, referring to PW) when they were already king of the mountain.

 

as far as the topic goes, I doubt they will do a game-wide trauma style debuff. but I do see them giving the right classes the wrong things and the wrong classes the right things. I also see idiotic class-wide nerfs like punishing merc/mando HO/HTL because PT/VG HO/HTL is too stronk.

[AlrikFassbauer]

but I do see them giving the right classes the wrong things and the wrong classes the right things. I also see idiotic class-wide nerfs like punishing merc/mando HO/HTL because PT/VG HO/HTL is too stronk.

 

Good point - I almost expect something like that as well.

[Storm-Cutter]

(In a singing voice much better than mine...) "In the year 2525, if man is still alive, if woman can survive..."

 

Actually, yeah, I think your list is exactly right.

 

-And I thought I was one of the few who remembered this song.....!

 

 

Back on topic, massive wait, massive nerf, massive QQ, long wait, small buff more QQ long wait....1 step toward normality .... in the year 5510.

 

[TUXs]

My predictions are:

 

 

 

• Bioware will nerf heals in PVP due to the overwhelming number of threads demanding such action. Not just sorc heals. ALL heals.
   
   
  
• The day of the Big Heal Nerf Patch the forums will have thread on top of thread celebrating the demise and uselessness of healers in the warzones.... "People finally die! YAY!!!"
   
   
  
• A week after the Big Heal Nerf Patch has been implemented, new threads will flood the PVP forums titled, "NERF (add applicable burst class) BURST I DIE TOO FAST YOU *************** DEVS!!!!!"
  

 

 

That's my prediction for the future and how the forums will react when the Big Heal Nerf Patch drops.

No!

 

Not a freaking chance!!!!

 

There's no way it'll take a full week for people to complain about burst.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I guess it would be an bantha-poodoo-storm.

[NikSunrider]

I', with Lhance, that will most definitely happen.

 

If things never die, you are doing it wrong.

[Volthammer]

My predictions are:

 

 

 

• Bioware will nerf heals in PVP due to the overwhelming number of threads demanding such action. Not just sorc heals. ALL heals.
   
   
  
• The day of the Big Heal Nerf Patch the forums will have thread on top of thread celebrating the demise and uselessness of healers in the warzones.... "People finally die! YAY!!!"
   
  
• A week after the Big Heal Nerf Patch has been implemented, new threads will flood the PVP forums titled, "NERF (add applicable burst class) BURST I DIE TOO FAST YOU *************** DEVS!!!!!"
  

 

That's my prediction for the future and how the forums will react when the Big Heal Nerf Patch drops.

 

Ha ha ha! You're probably exactly right. That can all be summed by simply saying, "PvP'ers will always complain." The way it is now, though, I have rarely seen such a stream of continuous, and legitimate, gripes about the same class (*ahem* sage/sorc heals).

[Technohic]

Can't expect people to not keep complaining if they do a blanket nerf rather than focus on what is needed.

[petergohan]

the issues for merc or operative are not THAT bad, maybe just the stealth and rolls from OP, but merc i think is fine, but when it comes to sorcs that theres the problems, they could stop healing while moving, take out phase walk from them, make the "can't touch this" bubble castable or have a lesser duration time.

 

If this really comes true, and BW devs nerf the healers i'm sure the next target will be the skanks, as they already are overperforming.

 

And BW should fix the problem of people screwing the matchmaking in arenas, like for example, if you queued as dps you cant switch stances, or if you can switch but is listed as DPS but is a tank that confused the system, you have to play as if you were dps, by not being alowed to guard anyone.

[Acaelus-Thorne]

you are probably right, and imo, that is unfortunate. i don't believe that "heals too stronk" is the problem. rather they have given sorcs too many escapes and cast on the move abilities. if they just hold still for a moment, you can kill them. i think forcing them to choose between healing or kiting, instead of giving them both would fix the "problem".

 

Exactly this. Its the insane mobility they have. They do NOT need it. Op heals sucked to play against for the longest time since the roll. So hard to catch them before. And good Op healers can micro manage energy and heals and mobility made them so effective. Sorcs don't need the mobility. That would solve alot of issues I think

Edited March 24, 2016 by Acaelus-Thorne

[kweassa]

Can't expect people to not keep complaining if they do a blanket nerf rather than focus on what is needed.

 

Spot on.

 

The fact people need to realize is that the general complaints in regards to heals are actually a combination coming from different layers of the community with different nuances.

 

IMO the largest and most frequent complaints you see in these forums, are actually not so much about healers themselves, but rather a problem aimed against imbalance in numbers.

 

Casual players and Rep players usually feel that way because the most likely form of Impremades they meet in regular WZs is a 4-man premade that features two [tank/DPS + pocket healer] setups -- whereas the lack of talented players and PvP guilds on the Rep/casual side most usually means that we can't even be guaranteed that we'd have ANY healers at all.

 

So what the Rep side players see most usually is a situation where none of their DPS does anything against the wall of heals being dished out, while at the same time being just butchered one-sidedly due to lack of own heals. This is actually a multitude of problems combined but undeniably, the one that leaves an impression is heals. That's why many people here complain about it.

 

So people will still be complaining about things even if heals are nerfed. At least, the majority of complaints in the forums will continue, because for the absolute majority of the players who aren't all that good, or interested in 4:4 arena fights, its really a complaint about the side imbalance rather than heals itself.

 

Take for example Harbinger, one of the most populated servers in the game. Queue in at any pvp match during evening~night US peak times and its basically a one sided slaughter lasting for like 3~4 hours. Lot of Rep players, but no real PvP guilds or Repremades, wheras the competition is always a same Impremade that queues everytime. This goes on for 5 nights of the week until weekends where much more players are free to log into the game on average... and then the odds are evened up a bit.

 

Most casual players will be losing anyway for the majority of the week, and therefore their complaints will still continue. When things are like this, nobody's really going to feel the effects of healers being nerfed -- unless there is another way to address this problem seperately from class balance.

[DavidAtkinson]

Healers don't need nerf... Instead they should improve matchmaking. IE, not allow 4 healers in the same match in a team. Problem solved.

 

If they nerf them, I think we will complain of the fact that healers or not healers anymore,or it doesn't matter if we have one or not. So my prediction is that they will be nerfed too much.

[kweassa]

Healers don't need nerf... Instead they should improve matchmaking. IE, not allow 4 healers in the same match in a team. Problem solved.

 

If they nerf them, I think we will complain of the fact that healers or not healers anymore,or it doesn't matter if we have one or not. So my prediction is that they will be nerfed too much.

 

Healers do need a nerf -- the simple truth would be both measures are required at the same time.

 

1. In above-average level of PvP, with more organized teamplay, higher participation of premades in both sides, and high probability of healers being abundant in both teams -- it's very evident sorc/sage healers need to be held back in check. They are overperforming.

 

2. In average and below-average level of PvP, which would actually form the majority of the PvP population and their complaints, its not about healers and healing themselves, but rather about unequal chance of healers landing in both competing teams equally.

 

> More casual players and less serious PvPers in the Repside = higher chance of low-skill players, higher chance of solo queue players, higher chance of uneven class/role distribution, higher chance of not having healers at all, higher chance of no premade players to lead the way.

 

> More PvP-oriented players flocking to Imps in droves = higher chance of better players, higher chance of premade queue players, higher chance that the team almost always has multiple healers.

 

 

So its not just one or the other. The sorc/sage healers being OP has a lot more to do with more organized gameplay, premade vs premade situations, and ranked arena queues. Matchmaking has more to do with average reg WZ gameplay and everyday complaints in the forums..

 

This is why I'm quite interested in the new WZs being proclaimed to have mixed-faction teams. Many people don't like it because it destroys the faction vs. faction immersion, but from a purely gameplay standpoint, it is actually an excellent solution. No more one-sided derp. If the Impremades are so numerous, then its highly likely each match will feature [4 Impremades + 4 Solo Reps] vs [4 Impremades + 4 Solo Reps].

 

"The population imbalance was so severe, that it caused all these problems? The Implayers still refuse to move over to help out the Replayers? OK. Fine. Then we make a WZ where the population Imbalance is meaningless by just mixing everyone up!" If this bid succeeds, then I'd probably ask the devs to do it to ALL WZs. When this happens, a LOT of the reg WZ complaints is going to subside.

[Volxen]

TLDR: Matchmaking needs to be introduced before placing any sort of limit on the number of healers on a team. The pugs vs premades matchups are why you see healers being stacked in the first place.

 

As someone who plays almost exclusively rep on the Harbinger, what I have noticed is that it is far more common to see 3-4 healers (sage or otherwise, but usually sage) on the rep side than on the imp side. In most games, there are usually only 1-2 healers (sorc or otherwise, but usually sorc) on the imp side. DPS is very, very popular on the imp side, and many imp players are very, very good at fulfilling that role. I am talking about unranked warzones here, and specifically 8 vs 8.

 

I think there are several reasons for this. One is that the imp side is definitely the dominant faction on the Harbinger for PVP. There are a lot of four-man groups (not necessarily always in the same guild) that run the standard 2 dps, 1 healer, and 1 tank. It is not uncommon to also see two different 4-man groups on the same imp team (again, not necessarily all in the same guild).

 

The fact of the matter is that the imps are, overall, MUCH more coordinated and cohesive than us reps are. Focus fire is a regular occurrence on the imp side; I can’t count how many times I’ve been up against imp teams where it was beyond clear that one person on that team was the “lead DPS”, and every single other DPS on that team set that person as their focus target, so you have anywhere from 5 to 8 people all bursting down us reps one by one. In all of my years of playing this game, I don’t think I’ve been in a single game on the rep side where anyone talked about setting a focus target, or explaining what it is. Unfortunately, I think a large portion of rep players may not even be aware it exists. You just don’t see groups of 4-8 rep players all focus firing the same target in perfect unison like you do with imp players.

 

So this, coupled with the fact that we currently don’t have cross-server queues or cross-faction matchmaking (although the latter is coming), leads to rep pugs getting repeatedly crushed by skilled and highly coordinated imp premade groups. So how have we responded? By stacking healers, and yes, sage healers in particular. For better or for worse, it seems to be the only solution to avoid having a total massacre when going up against some of the more skilled imp premades. Reps are, overall, simply not as good as imp players at DPS, and are certainly not as coordinated. And from what I have seen, a lot of rep players are solo queuing for unranked warzones, whereas imp players tend to play more in groups. A lot of rep players, even at 65, primarily focus on PVE, and are not aware of even the basics of PVP (wearing PVP gear instead of PVE gear in warzones, getting 2018 expertise as quickly as possible, etc.)

 

I’m not saying this is an ideal situation, but stacking sage healers is really the only way a team of average skill level (and for the most part, uncoordinated) rep pug players stand a chance of not being absolutely massacred by some of the more skilled imp premades. I’m not even talking about winning against these premades – just not being massacred. Even if you have a couple of people on the rep side who know what they are doing, if they are playing as DPS it isn’t going to be enough to overcome the coordination and the focus fire of the imp premades. So it’s either play as a DPS, and die to imp focus fire no matter how good at DPS you may individually be, or play sage healer to avoid dying as much as possible and to help your teammates do the same. More and more rep players are choosing the latter, because playing a sage healer allows them to contribute the most to the team (by keeping themselves and others alive) and put at least somewhat of a dent in the premades efforts. This is why you see those games with 4 – 6 sage healers on the rep side. I've gotten to the point where I play my sage healer almost exclusively, because playing any other class on the rep side feels like a wasted effort.

 

I think what this comes down to, simply, is that no one likes to die over and over again and spend a large portion of the match in the respawn area. And that is exactly what happens to rep pugs when you put them up against skilled imp premades, unless the reps stack sage healers.

 

The solution isn’t to simply limit the number of healers to 2 per team, as some have suggested. At least on the harbinger, that in and of itself would destroy rep pvp and turn it into even more of an imp premade steamroll fest than it already is. I agree that there should be a cap to the number of healers on a team (although I would argue it should be 3, not 2), but that needs to be done in conjunction with making ALL of the warzone maps cross-faction, and preferably also in conjunction with cross-server queues as well (or better yet, maybe a mega server).

 

The conclusion I’ve come to long ago is that the problem of stacking healers has always been a consequence of the pugs vs premades issue, in particular rep pugs vs skilled imp premades. Stacking healers has literally become a survival mechanism to deal with going up against highly skilled premades. If you want to see an end to games with 4+ sage healers, then we need true matchmaking that puts an end to the pugs vs highly skilled and coordinated premades matchups once and for all.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Volxen

[Kiesu]

Not to mention the amazing logic of matchmaking, especially notable in arenas, putting the one heal in a team with 2+ offheals and tank, and the enemy team with zero heals/offheals. Easy to see the outcome of that fight before it even started. I'd rather take balanced que roles over "heal nerf" sigh. Both sides were same faction too, where would have been no reason not to balance. These little dumb "matchmake" issues just really make pvp not a very enjoyable experience half of the time. Edited March 24, 2016 by Kiesu

[DavidAtkinson]

A bit off topic.. but I have to ask: why are reps so bad at pvp ? I play on TRE and sometimes it's a nightmare. Matches are lost before they even begin because imps, who are humans likes reps, are in another league. Hell, they have the same abilities at their disposal with different names and animations, but they crush reps like roaches.

 

At level 65 it's better on rep, but imps are still better overall.

 

Back on topic. I'm pretty sure that nerfng heals will end in loads of rage on forums. People will complain of dying a lot and healers being not very efficient at healing.

 

Any plans to nerf operatives ? that's probably the most troll class i've seen in pvp. it's basically stun stun stun roll roll... and u are a helpless witness to your own death. Or maybe I don't know how to counter them yet.